I tend to put on 25k miles / year. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 6:39 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] 42,850 Traffic Deaths in 2002
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > To compare driving fatalities of the USA with other countries on a per capita > > basis is worthless. There needs to be consideration of the higher miles/person > > driven in a year. > > This is true. It wouldn't surprize me in the least to find out that > Americans drive more miles/person/year than anywhere else on Earth. > > > To hop in a car and drive for eight hours to visit someone would > > be unheard of in most other countries, but is fairly common in the USA. > > There are a number of reasons for this. The first is the absence of any > real intercity mass transit except for airlines. Our long distance > passenger rail system, except for a very few areas, was very effectively > killed off in the last half of the 20th century. Long distance Busses > do exist, but in most places they're considered strictly low class, and > relegated to carying people who can't afford to go by airline. And then > there are the airlines. Since Deregulation, note the capital "D", there > are a lot of smaller communities that airlines just don't serve anymore. > In any event, with all of the security procedures one must go through > in order to fly in the post-9/11 world, it may actually be faster to > drive than to fly, depending on the distance involved. And even if one > does fly, if you're going to an area that is not served by a good > mass-transit system, there's the problem of "How am I going to get > around once I'm there?" > > > The > > twelve lanes of traffic on the NJ TP into and out of NYC is not seen in many > > other countries. The beltway of Washington, D.C., is at least five lanes in > > each direction. And, so on. The speeds traveled on these roads is around 75 > > mph regardless of posted speeds. So...you have a lot of congestion plus high > > speeds. > > Have you ever seen the Autobahn around Frankfurt or Munich? > > > Seatbelt laws and helmet laws have been in place in the USA for years with the > > exception of a few states. They could be more strongly enforced, but they are > > there. > > Indeed. But while they do exist, they are under constant attack from > various groups. There are some who claim that wearing a helmet on a > motorcycle is actually unsafe because it "restricts your vision". What > a load. If it restricts your vision then you need to buy a better helmet. > > > The bigger problem than seatbelts and helmets is alcohol and other drugs. A > > very high percentage of single vehicle accidents involves someone under the > > influence. A high percentage of all accidents involves at least one of the > > drivers being under the influence. > > Around half, IIRC. > > > There are continuous attempts to curb this, > > with varying degrees of success. > > Indeed. Every time we turn around somebody is screaming "There ought to > be a law!" And our politicians, being politicians, have to appear to be > doing something, so they happily go out and make some damned law, until > we're now bound around with them. > > > Part of the problem is again the structure of > > our communities. For example, in many areas in Europe one can go out with > > buddies and walk about to a multitude of bars/discos, etc., and not need to > > get about except by walking or using mass-transit. > > I remember when I was living in Ansbach, Germany, there was this little > Irish pub around the corner from the Hauptbahnhof in Nurnberg, and my > apartment was stumbling distance from the Bahnhof in Ansbach. At that > time the rail system was running a DM15 weekend special for up to 5 > people, so I made that trip a lot on the weekends. > > > In the States, in many > > areas it is very difficult to do anything without driving. So...there are > > attempts to get people to designate a driver who remains sober while everyone > > else has a party. This tends not to be very successful. > > That depends entirely on the responsibility of the one designated as the > driver. Many areas also have "toxicabs" which will drive people home at > no charge when they've gotten too drunk to drive themselves. > > > Finally, there is a trade off between well engineered roads and possible > > traffic speeds. And...speed kills in more ways than one. > > Um... Well, yes, but. It isn't the speed that kills. It's the sudden > stop. > > > In Saudi Arabia, I read > > that it had or has the highest per capita fatality rate. Well...fairly good > > roads and people driving at 100 mph all the time. If one loses a tire at 100 > > mph/161 kph, there is a good chance it will be the last time. > > The answer here is "it depends". Mostly it depends on the skill of the > driver in controlling the situation. If the driver freaks out then the > results are going to be bad. It also depends on the safety equipment in > the car. If drivers don't cheap out on the safety equipment then even > horrific crashes are survivable, many times without too much injury. > But if the safety equipment is neglected, or the maintenance of it is > neglected, then the results will be similarly bad. > > I've lost a tire at high speed on the highway twice, and I'm still here. > > > Another thing is a higher number of accidents by either very young drivers or > > very old drivers. Many states in the USA allow driving at 16 and with minimum > > instruction. From my experience in Spain, which I assume pertains to much of > > the rest of Europe, where my daughter is coming up on eighteen, the minimum > > age is 18, and she has to take formal instruction in a driving school and pass > > a fairly rigorous written examination and driving test. To my knowledge, no > > state in the USA requires driving school. One can learn any old way and take > > the test. The tests in the USA tend to be very simple compared to what I have > > seen in Spain. Also, in Spain, older drivers have to retest and demonstrate > > that they have not become too impaired by health reasons to drive safely. > > I'll agree here. In Germany the requirements for the driver lisence are > similar to the requirements I had to meet to get my Pilot's lisence here > in the US. > > But here we encounter one of those political problems. Many, if not > most, Americans tend to think of driving as a "right". Part of the > whole freedom of movement thing. For this reason legislation to > restrict driving priveleges, or increase lisencing requirements, or > anything which might make getting the lisence more expensive, such as > requiring formal driver training, is politically unpopular. Depending > on the state, the elderly in particular are a POWERFUL political group. > While making the initial lisence more expensive or more difficult for > young people to get is politically unpopular, doing anything to restrict > the ability of the elderly to drive themselves around is political > suicide. > > > So, the stats need to be adjusted for miles driven/year/person. > > Indeed. Don't you just _love_ statistics. > > > There needs to > > be consideration for the condition of the roads, and speeds at which drivers > > drive. > > Definitely. And we need for the roads to be designed by engineers > instead of politicians. > > > There needs to be changes in the way people relax with meaningful > > alternatives so people won't tend to drive under the influence - for example, > > greater availability of mass transit, more taxi and limousine services. > > Well, yes, there needs to be more availability of mass transit, but > deeper than that, there needs to be the will to use it. One can't exist > without the other. And for decades in the American Car Culture mass > transit has been the transportation of people who can't afford cars. > > > There > > needs to be better driver's education and consideration to raising the minimum > > driving age. It is a multi-factorial problem. Regardless of comparisons with > > other countries, much can still be done to cut this death rate in all > > countries. > > Indeed, much can be done. But doing it requires the political will to > do it. > > And in the end, there's only just so much you can do to protect people > from themselves. > > [snip] > > I am constantly amazed that some Americans claim that it > >>"violates their constitutional rights" if legislation is brought in that > >>enforces seat-belts/helmets and allows random breath testing. Using > >>the above figures, it could be argued that nearly half of the people > >>killed on US roads could be EASILY saved. > > You're not the only one amazed by it. What's more amazing is some of > the arguments that are brought against these laws. > > A couple of years ago Florida's helmet law was declared > "unconstitutionally vague", because while it required motorcycle drivers > to wear "proper headgear" it never defined what "proper headgear" meant. > And there hasn't been the political will to rewrite and reenact the > helmet law here even though deaths in motorcycle accidents doubled. > > >> To take it a step further, there is a large financial cost > >>associated with a person dying in a vehicle crash, but there is a > >>much larger cost associated with those people who survive the crash > >>but suffer some form if incapacitation, or even a long rehabilitation > >>period. If a person is permanently injured in a car crash and in turn > >>needs life long care, then the costs are huge. I would guess that it > >>would cost at least $50,000 per year to look after said injured person > >>and if they happen to live for 40 years in this state, that's $2M > >>straight away. Also it is worth remembering that for every death on > >>the roads, there are a lot of accidents which are severe, resulting is > >>no deaths but long term injury. > > This is why insurance was invented. In most states drivers are required > to cary a minimum of insurance in order to maintain their driving > priveleges. I don't have to like it, and I don't, but I can certainly > understand it. The big problem with this is that the insurance industry > has drivers over a barrel, and they know it. And with the financial > disorder in the insurance industry, premiums have gone through the roof. > > But even the insurance industry agrees with you about safety equipment. > There are a number of insurance companies that stopped writing > policies for the state of Florida when the helmet law was struck down. > > >> So where does that leave us? Australia has a death rate on > >>the roads that is constantly, except for a one year "blip". trending > >>down whilst from my reading of the article, seems to be trending up. > > Whether the fatality rate is trending up or down depends entirely on who > is interpreting the statistics. From my reading of the situation, there > are more total fatalities simply because there are more drivers than > ever on the roads, but as a percentage of all accidents fatalities have > been trending down for quite some time, particularly as older cars with > inadequate safety equipment meet their end of life and are removed from > the fleet. > > >>Isn't it time that the US took some action on these simple to > >>introduce measures and stopped both the carnage and cost instead > >>of waiting for "Robby the Robot" to drive them around ? > > Again, there is the issue of the political will to do it. > > I, for one, would like to see Florida's helmet law reenacted, and > enforcement of the seatbelt law strengthened, as well as formal driver > training requirements for initial lisencing, and increased retesting > requirements for elderly drivers. > > I would like this not for purely altruistic reasons, after all, > stupidity is supposed to be fatal, but largely for selfish reasons. All > of this would probably make my insurance rates go down. > > Not that I expect to ever see it happen. > > > AP > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/O10svD/Me7FAA/AG3JAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! 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