On Mar 6, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:

Kevan writes:
Perhaps an example would be useful.

There are multiple cases where Open Source projects have moved to
Apache and maintained their name. For example, both OpenEJB and
ActiveMQ were Codehaus projects. They both entered Apache Incubator.
There was a period of time where there were (some) activities at both
Codehaus OpenEJB/ActiveMQ and within the corresponding Apache
Incuabator projects. However, over time, the projects were solely
focused on the Apache Incubator. You can find some vestiges of the old
Codehaus projects, but essentially the Codehaus projects no longer

So, is there a similar situation for VCL?

 That's what I thought - we've already made that transition to having
code development entirely within the Apache Incubator project.

It's been my impression that
a public facing NCSU 'VCL' entity was going to continue,

 Our public facing NCSU 'VCL' entity is a computing service which we
provide for the use of our students, faculty, and others.  Yes, we
intend to continue providing this service.  The users are using
computing resources (cycles, software) which is made available through
the use of the VCL software which is continuing to be developed in the
Apache Incubator project.

 We see the service and the software development as being separate.

along with
the Apache VCL project. If this is the case, then there would seem to
be a problem.

So, is there still going to be a public facing 'NCSU VCL' project?

 No - there will be no public facing 'NCSU VCL' software development

But we need to continue providing a computing service to our students, faculty, ... and we want to call this computing service the VCL (or NCSU
VCL or ... - note that it really has to be in the ncsu.edu domain.)
We actually don't call it a "project" - we call it a Lab or a Service.
Quoting from our home page:

Remote Access Service

The Virtual Computing Lab (VCL) is a remote access service that allows
you to reserve a computer with a desired set of applications for
yourself, and remotely access it over the Internet.

 We don't use the word "Project" there, and our users don't have any
involvement with software development.

It's been my impression that there would be.

Doing some research, http://vcl.ncsu.edu tells me that "Virtual
Computing Lab (VCL) is a remote access service..." Virtual Computing
Lab and (VCL) seem to be somewhat synonymous.


So, can you give us an idea on how you intend to break yourself from
the current situation? Things like: "NCSU Virtual Computing Lab:
powered by Apache VCL"?

 I think we've already suggested this.

VCL and Virtual Computing Lab are both proper nouns. This is the collision to which I refer to. It's obvious that VCL is an acronym for Virtual Computing Lab.

And usage of "VCL" on your web site will be
replaced by either "Virtual Computing Lab" or "Apache VCL", as

 Something like this seems reasonable - although we need to figure out
exactly what would be appropriate.  (Would we be able, with these
changes to continue using https://vcl.ncsu.edu/ ?)

 It might take some work to see how to reword material, such as this
from the home page

Development of The Virtual Computing Lab (VCL) started in 2004 as a
joint venture of the College of Engineering (COE) and the Office of
Information Technology (OIT) ...

perhaps to

Development of The Virtual Computing Lab (now using the software which
has moved to the Apache VCL project) started in 2004 as a joint venture
of the College of Engineering (COE) and the Office of Information
Technology (OIT)

VCL or Virtual Computing Lab are just too close, especially given the fact that the software project originates from NCSU VCL.

If Amazon were moving their EC2 software project to ASF would this fly:

Development of The Electronic Computing Cloud (now using the software which has moved to the Apache EC2 project) started in 2004 by Amazon.

Looks bad to me.


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