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On Fri March 6 2009 1:09:20 pm Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Fri March 6 2009 9:37:03 am Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> >>>>> So what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what the name,
> >>>>> either formal or common, AFS rules require a different name?
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct, our project name has to be different.
> >>>
> >>> This is the message I keep hearing (and by "hearing", I mean it is
> >>> how I am
> >>> interpreting what I read) that doesn't make any sense to me:
> >>>
> >>> "There must be a name for the project at ASF that isn't used
> >>> anywhere else in
> >>> the world for any similar project, and anyone who downloads and
> >>> installs said
> >>> project isn't allowed to use the ASF name in any way."
> >>>
> >>> That doesn't make sense to me because t's a normal business model to
> >>> produce
> >>> software that is to be sold and used by other people /without/
> >>> changing the
> >>> name of the software, in fact, it would generally be considered
> >>> wrong to
> >>> change the name.  An example similar to ours that I can think of is
> >>> Blackboard software used for online courses.  www.blackboard.com is
> >>> the site
> >>> for the company that develops it.  If you do a google search
> >>> for "allinurl:blackboard" you'll find many sites that have
> >>> Blackboard
> >>> installed and actually use "blackboard" in the URL.
> >>
> >> You are missing the point.  I am not advocating changing the name
> >> just
> >> for the sake of changing the name.  There is a conflict in naming
> >> between NCSU VCL and this project.  It's that simple.
> >
> > I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're saying - I need
> > you to
> > restate it using different wording rather than just repeating
> > yourself.  I
> > don't understand the naming conflict between ASF VCL and NCSU's
> > install of
> > VCL (keep in mind the content at vcl.ncsu.edu will be changed to
> > refer to
> > development of VCL being at ASF and stuff at vcl.ncsu.edu to just be
> > an
> > install of it).
> It's the name your department name, NCSU VCL, and the name of this
> incubating project, ASF VCL, that is the problem.  They cannot be the
> same.  It doesn't matter if the stuff at the NCSU VCL department is
> just an installation of the ASF VCL project.  It doesn't matter if
> there's attribution at the NCSU VCL department that they have
> installed ASF VCL software.
> There is a naming conflict and that has to be resolved.

Umm, there is no "NCSU VCL" department.  There are people from two different 
groups at NCSU that are involved in development of VCL.  The main group being 
the Office of Information Technology.  There is a group within that named 
Advanced Computing.  Aaron, Andy, and I are in that group.  There is a 
completely separate group named Centennial Networking Lab that has a fair 
amount of interest in VCL as well.  Brian and Andrew work for them.

Other than the content at vcl.ncsu.edu discussing development of VCL that will 
be changed to reflect development being done at ASF, the only thing - 
organizational unit or otherwise - at NCSU that exists using the name VCL is 
the installation of this project.

> > It seems to me, the Blackboard example I gave above exactly
> > matches our situation.  If it can work for them, why can it not work
> > for VCL?
> > If you don't think it matches our situation, please clearly state
> > how and why
> > you don't think it matches.
> It does not match our situation.  In your example you have a *single*
> corporation.  In our situation we have two separate institutions, one
> of them being a non-profit software foundation.  The project at the
> ASF cannot share a name with it's progenitor, an external institution.
> I mention branding because it's obvious that the NCSU staff is
> vociferously attempting to keep the branding connection between the
> NCSU department and the ASF incubator project by keeping the same
> name, regardless of what that name is.

I'm not trying to keep a branding connection between NCSU and VCL.  I'm trying 
to keep a project that's been known by the name VCL for almost 5 years, 
having had many presentations and papers published about it from having to be 
renamed to something else that no one has heard of.  This is the *only* 
reason I am interested in keeping the VCL name.  There were discussions at 
NCSU a little while ago about changing the name (before there was even the 
idea to move development to ASF).  I wanted to keep the VCL name then too - 
for exactly the same reasons - because it is what people know the /project/ 
as.  I'm not trying to keep the name because people associate it with NCSU, 
nor because I think it is necessarily the best name for the project (as in, a 
different name from the beginning may have been better).  It's simply because 
people know this project as VCL, and I don't think it makes sense to change 
the name that so many people already know.


> Regards,
> Alan
> > Matt and Kevan - Do you understand what Alan is saying?  If so, as
> > our other
> > two mentors, can you help to clarify it?
> >
> > Josh
> >
> >> I will repeat myself again here.  NCSU VCL and its developers have a
> >> lot to be proud of.  It's only natural that both, NCSU VCL and its
> >> developers at ASF VCL, would want to keep their association with the
> >> brand.  That brand is only strengthened as departments from other
> >> universities join in and have their initiatives participate in the
> >> VCL
> >> brand.  Unfortunately the ASF must remain independent this branding
> >> effort.
> >>
> >> We are not a business.  We are an independent, non-profit, software
> >> foundation and we must remain free from such entanglements.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Alan

- -- 
- -------------------------------
Josh Thompson
Systems Programmer
Virtual Computing Lab (VCL)
North Carolina State University


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