On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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On Fri March 6 2009 1:09:20 pm Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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On Fri March 6 2009 9:37:03 am Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
So what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what the name,
either formal or common, AFS rules require a different name?
Correct, our project name has to be different.
This is the message I keep hearing (and by "hearing", I mean it is
how I am
interpreting what I read) that doesn't make any sense to me:
"There must be a name for the project at ASF that isn't used
anywhere else in
the world for any similar project, and anyone who downloads and
project isn't allowed to use the ASF name in any way."
That doesn't make sense to me because t's a normal business
software that is to be sold and used by other people /without/
name of the software, in fact, it would generally be considered
change the name. An example similar to ours that I can think of
Blackboard software used for online courses. www.blackboard.com
for the company that develops it. If you do a google search
for "allinurl:blackboard" you'll find many sites that have
installed and actually use "blackboard" in the URL.
You are missing the point. I am not advocating changing the name
for the sake of changing the name. There is a conflict in naming
between NCSU VCL and this project. It's that simple.
I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're saying - I need
restate it using different wording rather than just repeating
don't understand the naming conflict between ASF VCL and NCSU's
VCL (keep in mind the content at vcl.ncsu.edu will be changed to
development of VCL being at ASF and stuff at vcl.ncsu.edu to just be
install of it).
It's the name your department name, NCSU VCL, and the name of this
incubating project, ASF VCL, that is the problem. They cannot be the
same. It doesn't matter if the stuff at the NCSU VCL department is
just an installation of the ASF VCL project. It doesn't matter if
there's attribution at the NCSU VCL department that they have
installed ASF VCL software.
There is a naming conflict and that has to be resolved.
Umm, there is no "NCSU VCL" department. There are people from two
groups at NCSU that are involved in development of VCL. The main
the Office of Information Technology. There is a group within that
Advanced Computing. Aaron, Andy, and I are in that group. There is a
completely separate group named Centennial Networking Lab that has a
amount of interest in VCL as well. Brian and Andrew work for them.
Other than the content at vcl.ncsu.edu discussing development of VCL
be changed to reflect development being done at ASF, the only thing -
organizational unit or otherwise - at NCSU that exists using the
name VCL is
the installation of this project.
Ok, so now we may be making some progress here. When I go to
VCL is all over the place. It really gives the impression that
there's a lab over at NCSU called VCL. I see "Virtual Computing Lab,
powered by NC STATE's Virtual Computing Platform". Even if the
powered by clause were changed as mentioned in previous posts to:
Virtual Computing Lab, powered by ASF VCL
I don't see how that would fly. If however, *every* reference to VCL
and Virtual Computing Lab were replaced with, say, WolfPack. Then
this would definitely work:
WolfPack, powered by ASF VCL
Are you saying that *all* VCL and Virtual Computing Lab terms will
be scrubbed at NCSU?
It seems to me, the Blackboard example I gave above exactly
matches our situation. If it can work for them, why can it not work
If you don't think it matches our situation, please clearly state
how and why
you don't think it matches.
It does not match our situation. In your example you have a *single*
corporation. In our situation we have two separate institutions, one
of them being a non-profit software foundation. The project at the
ASF cannot share a name with it's progenitor, an external
I mention branding because it's obvious that the NCSU staff is
vociferously attempting to keep the branding connection between the
NCSU department and the ASF incubator project by keeping the same
name, regardless of what that name is.
I'm not trying to keep a branding connection between NCSU and VCL.
to keep a project that's been known by the name VCL for almost 5
having had many presentations and papers published about it from
having to be
renamed to something else that no one has heard of. This is the
reason I am interested in keeping the VCL name. There were
NCSU a little while ago about changing the name (before there was
idea to move development to ASF). I wanted to keep the VCL name
then too -
for exactly the same reasons - because it is what people know the /
as. I'm not trying to keep the name because people associate it
nor because I think it is necessarily the best name for the project
(as in, a
different name from the beginning may have been better). It's
people know this project as VCL, and I don't think it makes sense to
the name that so many people already know.
When the NCSU staff, including the CIO, chime in it gives a specific
impression. Hence my opinion.
As for previous notoriety of VCL the solution is simple, scrub VCL
from the NCSU side. Other corporations have been in the same boat as
we currently find ourselves, including a long presentation and
publishing history. They let go of the name in its entirety so that
the ASF project could hold it.
Matt and Kevan - Do you understand what Alan is saying? If so, as
two mentors, can you help to clarify it?
I will repeat myself again here. NCSU VCL and its developers
lot to be proud of. It's only natural that both, NCSU VCL and its
developers at ASF VCL, would want to keep their association with
brand. That brand is only strengthened as departments from other
universities join in and have their initiatives participate in the
brand. Unfortunately the ASF must remain independent this branding
We are not a business. We are an independent, non-profit, software
foundation and we must remain free from such entanglements.
Virtual Computing Lab (VCL)
North Carolina State University
my GPG/PGP key can be found at www.keyserver.net
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