On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM H LV <> wrote:

> ​Btw, a so called "burger flipper" isn't hired just to flip burgers. Even
> if you had an unlimited budget with current technology you could not build
> a robot to perform all the tasks a "burger flipper" does at a restaurant.
> Harry
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 12:43 AM, H LV <> wrote:
>> Of course they are doing it to make money and they don't care if their
>> products put people out of work. The point is employers aren't going to use
>> robots in the service sector if the robots are more expensive and/or less
>> flexible​ than a human. I think most people on the list are unaware of how
>> subservient labour has become over the last 30 years with stagnate real
>> wage growth, the decline of unions and labour codes being rewritten to
>> allow for a more flexible workforce.
>> Harry
>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Jed Rothwell <>
>> wrote:
>>> H LV <> wrote:
>>>> the other automation you speak off will proceed slowly as long as
>>>> social security for "working age" men and women is linked to paid
>>>> employment.
>>> The people developing this technology are doing it to make money. They
>>> don't care whether their products put people out of work.
>>> Let me be blunt and say that I developed many software products which
>>> put people out of work. I was automating work that was previously done by
>>> people. I knew that. Everyone knew that. It did not slow us down. To be
>>> honest, it did not bother us. We did it to make money, and to save the
>>> customer money.
>>> At present, is taking jobs away from enormous numbers of
>>> people in retail. Far more than the total number industrial workers, or
>>> miners being put out of work by the decline in coal consumption. Retail has
>>> lost about 100,000 jobs from October 2016 to May 2017, which is more than
>>> the total number of miners. ". . . [D]epartment stores have lost 18 times
>>> more workers than coal mining since 2001."
>>> This is deeply regrettable for the people losing their jobs. I hate to
>>> think of it. I sympathize with them. I hope society can help them, and I
>>> hope they find other employment. But I am not going to stop using
>>> I seldom went to malls in the past, and I am going to go to
>>> them now, out of charity. I do not see how anything can slow down this
>>> trend, and I do not think it would be a good idea to try to slow it down.
>>> will not do anything to "ensure security" for "working age men
>>> and women." No corporation would. Any corporation that tries would be
>>> bankrupted by the competition. That is how capitalism works.
>>> Capitalism cannot solve this problem. Society as a whole must address
>>> it. I doubt there are any clean, neat, quick or inexpensive solutions.
>>> - Jed

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