Does it make sense to have more articles in a language than can be curated by the volunteers who speak that language? This has already happened on the Englisg-language Wikipedia where the five million articles have simply overwhelmed the capability of the few thousand active contributors to self-organise and curate -- for example, there are about one million articles without adequate sources, and thousands of unsourced BLP; there are copyvio cleanups that will not complete, if ever, before 2030. An army of hand-coded bots is just about keeping on top of vandalism. How does that scale to projects where the number of native speaker contributors is in the dozens rather than the thousands?
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Vi to <vituzzu.w...@gmail.com> wrote: > (This thread is getting terribly interesting) > > I generally think Wikipedia should be a strictly non interfering observer > for various aspects, language included. I fear if a wiki tries to set a > model for a language it may be a model which doesn't represent the reality > of that language: small wikis are often monopolized by a few users. That's > not a fault per se but it may introduce a significant bias in linguistic > models used. > > About one of Amir's emails I think a "small" Wikipedia edition is sign of a > series of situations, one of the most common of is an endangered language. > While planning should differentiate between endangered and non endangered > language I think most of problems we have to face are related to languages > endangered at various levels. > > On a more practical and less ideological note, I should note that even > though I didn't run the numbers, I strongly suspect that translating 10,000 > articles to 100 languages is considerably cheaper than teaching 7 billion > people English. > > I don't why but I tend to second your suspects :p > > > Vito > > 2018-02-27 16:53 GMT+01:00 Peter Southwood <peter.southw...@telkomsa.net>: > > > If the people creating the basic encyclopaedic terminology and style in > > the language are native speakers, then it would not be a thing imposed > from > > outside. It would be a development within the language, just like it was > > with the languages that already have encyclopaedias. The basic > > encyclopaedic terminology and style in languages that have then also had > to > > be created before it existed, it just happened earlier. Living languages > > evolve to deal with the realities of the present. Those which don’t, tend > > to die out as they become less useful. Cheers, Peter > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf Of Vi to > > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:43 PM > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid translation > > > > I see Amir's points, which are pretty reasonable, but I fear this would > > suit languages with a significant presence on the web. > > > > Among them I agree with points 1, 3 and 4 while I'm not sure about #2 > > "creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language", if > we > > want to preserve a language we shouldn't create a thing. > > > > By the way I was wondering my concerns about cultural colonization may be > > addressed -for wikis which has some contents (let's say at least 1000 > > articles)- by starting expanding existing articles instead of translating > > new ones. This would solve the problem of choosing what to translate > though > > would leave problems about the perspective contents are created. > > > > Vito > > > > 2018-02-27 12:31 GMT+01:00 Amir E. Aharoni <amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il > >: > > > > > 2018-02-27 13:00 GMT+02:00 mathieu stumpf guntz < > > > psychosl...@culture-libre.org>: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le 24/02/2018 à 18:08, Vi to a écrit : > > > > > > > >> *finally I think paid translators would hardly turn into stable > > > >> Wikipedians. > > > >> > > > >> I think this misses an important point that is, we don't need the > > > initial > > > > translator to turn into a sustaining editor, we need the article to > > > evolve > > > > with call to action incentives. And articles which don't exist at > > > > all – even as a stub – or don't meet an audience of potential > > > > contributors will never catch such an evolving cycle. > > > > > > > > > This is one of the issues with what I alluded to in my earlier email > > > in this thread: the privilege that the "big" languages have. It's the > > > privilege of already having other encyclopedias, textbooks, public > > > education, etc., in this language. A lot of languages don't have these > > > things. When you speak a language that has had these things before > > > Wikipedia came along, it's hard to perceive the world like a person > > > who speaks a language that doesn't perceives it. > > > > > > If you define the purpose of paying somebody to translate as "turning > > > the paid translator" into a sustaining editor, then this is indeed > > > likely to fail. > > > > > > But if you define the purpose differently, it may succeed. For > > > example, you may define the purpose as one or more of the following: > > > * Demonstrating that it's possible to write an encyclopedia in that > > > language > > > * Creating basic encyclopedic terminology and style in that language > > > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in > > > interlanguage links in Wikipedias from bigger languages (English, > > > French, etc.) > > > * Creating a bunch of basic articles that would appear in search > > > results from internet search engines > > > > > > The existence of these things may bring in people who will become > > > volunteer sustaining editors. > > > > > > -- > > > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי > > > http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live > > > in peace.” – T. 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