I don't think Marlon is asserting the VL is simply another "wifi" radio
(even though it does use a wifi Atheros chip with CSAM), but more so that
the VL offers no method for a user to avoid or overcome noise.  Simply
lowering modulation, slowing down and retransmitting over and over until the
packet gets through is not an acceptable solution for committed rate
business class service.

Best,


Brad




-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 12:01 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

This is my point Marlon, your "beef" is based on erroneous assumptions
because you are still are talking like it is a basic "wifi" radio. It is
not. Have you not read any of the posts about how the CSAM is able to be
modified or adjustable? As I have said and I'll try to say it again, you
can adjust many ways. The mechanism you are used with all your low end
stuff to leaves you entirely at the mercy of others...you have no
ability to make adjustments. With VL you do. Polling in VL would BE A
DOWNGRADE.


Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

Got it.  Thanks.

I guess my "beef" comes from being a wifi based wisp.  I find it too 
difficult to reject interference with a csma based product.  Anything
with a 
"wait for clear air, then transmit" MAC is GREAT for collocation.  But
sucks 
when there are products around that don't follow that mechanism.  That's
(my 
personal belief) why Canopy went with it's GPS sync.  It doesn't care
who's 
already out there, when it's time to transmit it does.  Trango does that
to, 
just without sync'ing the AP's.

My REAL world experience so far is that csmak (or csma/ca, or whatever 
collision avoidance scheme you want to use) is GREAT where there aren't
many 
other systems within ear shot of the radios.  However, when there are
other 
devices in the area, especially those that don't have a collision
avoidance 
mechanism, the csma radio will pay a heavy price in performance.

Having used both csma and polling products, I'm not putting in any wifi
type 
products at 5 gig.  All of our next gen products will be polling as long
as 
we can keep things that way.

These days, I'm learning to sacrifice raw performance for reliability
and 
uptime.  There's a balance, sure, but getting that last 10 to 20% out of
a 
product is less important to me than having a product that can survive
some 
of the games that my less scrupulous competitors play.

However, with EITHER technology choice, it's critical to design a
network 
that can, and does, physically (antenna choice and ap locations)
isolates 
your system as well as you possibly can.  That seems to be the type of
trick 
that just can't be taught.  Your network designer either gets it or he 
doesn't.  Heck, I've even done consulting gigs where I looked a guy
right in 
the eye and gave them several choices for site locations.  Only to have
them 
pick something completely different, and sometimes unworkable.

80 to 90%  of people's problems with wireless are self inflicted.
Either 
outright or in a lack of forethought manner.

Here's an idea for you Patrick.  Make this product work both ways.  Give
it 
the option to be either csma or some fancy new version of token ring.
Then 
we could optimize performance for any environment that we find ourselves
in.

Oh yeah, I remember the big hubbub about GPS in the BreezeACCESS II
line. 
Why was it important for collocation then but not now?

Hope you guys all had a great Christmas!
Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived


I'd never call you a neophyte, Marlon. A jolly elf maybe, neophyte
never...

CSMA/CA. But the MAC has been substantially altered, especially with 4.0
and the WLP (wireless link prioritization) feature where all stations
can be made to wait while those stations with spooled up voice can
release their packets regardless of where they are in the cell. Also, in
VL an operator can adjust numerous values of the CSMA/CA, such as
contention window duration, contention levels, etc. It is more
sophisticated than your basic polling and more efficient.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 9:13 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived

Got that part.  I still didn't see in there anywhere, in plain English
that
a neophyte like me can understand, is this a polling or csmak product?
Marlon
(509) 982-2181                                   Equipment sales
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)                    Consulting services
42846865 (icq)                                    And I run my own wisp!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Alvarion Comnet Radios have arrived


Marlon, I'll answer this with a re-post of a September post that
explains, in part, why VL is not just regular CSMA:

<<trim>>

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