JMJM,

I DID NOT agree with you that zen was 'just a mind-balancing 
exercise'.  I agreed with you that zen was not spritual.  Zen is no-
mind, so there is nothing to balance - WYSIWYG, no adjustments 
necessary.

I'm not sure what your remark below about my 'inner self' means.  I 
guess you think I have an 'inner self' and that you know more about 
what it's doing than I.  Please continue to let me know what it's up 
to.  I'd hate to have my inner self sneak up on me and surprise me.

Buddha Nature, which I have called 'JUST THIS', is not in the realm 
of sprituality or maya.  It is real.  It is reality.

Buddha Nature and Chi are not the same, or at least Buddha Nature, as 
I know it, is not the same as what you have described Chi to be.  
You've described Chi as a universal energy that you can connect with 
and detect in others, that you can cultivate and accumulate, that you 
can learn to direct and channel, that you can use to heal yourself 
and others, that misuse can harm yourself and others, that you 
describe things you like as to having 'good' Chi and things you don't 
as having 'bad' Chi.  This sounds more like something sung about in 
the Beach Boy's song 'Good Vibrations'.  (Good hamony there...)

Some of the above qualities overlap with Buddha Nature, but certainly 
not all of them.  Buddha Nature is universal but you could not call 
it energy (or at least I wouldn't).  You can 'connect' with it by 
becoming aware of it.  You could say you can cultivate it, but what 
you really do is cultivate your awareness of it.  You cannot 
accumulate it in the sense of 'storing it up', but you can strengthen 
your awareness of it.  You cannot direct or channel it, you follow 
it.  You cannot use it to heal yourself and others, although the 
awareness of it has healing in the sense of acceptance and peace.  
You cannot use it to harm yourself or others,  other than 
intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting Buddha Nature to 
others.  There is no 'good' or 'bad' Buddha Nature.

As you have described Chi, I think it has the same relationship with 
Buddha Nature as I now beleive Chan has with zen. Chi represents a 
spritualized version of Buddha Nature as does Chan vis-a-vis zen, 
complete with add-on surpernatural qualities, superstitions, wishful 
thinking and lots of attachment-magnets.

(I just now made up the term attachment-magnets.  Pretty cool, huh?  
Feel free to use it without feeling obligated to cite me.)

JMJM, you didn't comment on my title before when it was Bill!.  I 
just got a new one: Big Fish.  How do you like it?  Does it have good 
Chi or bad Chi?  Can I heal or hurt someone with it?  If I can, Al 
had better WATCH OUT!

...Bill!, Big Fish

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On the contrary, Al.  What I meant was, if Bill admitted at the 
> beginning that Zen is just a mental balancing exercise, then my 
point is 
> made. Since his did not agree with my observation, yet his Inner 
Self 
> did, he had convinced himself that there could be spirituality.  
> Spirituality in my dictionary is Buddha Nature.  :-)
> 
> There is no one to convert to no where.  Just some are more 
delusional 
> than others.  No offense.
> 
> Fitness63 wrote:
> >
> > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - >Hi Bill, Your post was what I 
expected. If 
> > you
> > had mentioned in the first place that spirituality to you has no 
meaning,
> > then I don't have to write that many posts. :-) JM
> >
> > You sound like a missionary who tries to convert a heathen and 
then says
> > "What could I expect from a heathen" when the conversion fails!!
> >
> > That is funny when I see things in zen that are just like 
Christianity 
> > and
> > then it makes me wonder if the cynics are right.
> >
> > Then again, I learned something from this, so thanks for trying 
to 
> > convert
> > Bill. You may have missed the big fish but gotten some little 
ones.
> >
> >
>



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