JMJM,

Thanks for your reply.  The titles were confusing to me.  This reply 
post of your is less confusing - only just slightly.

Bill! (I've dropped the Big Fish title since it was superfluous and 
probably confusing.)

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello Big Fish,
> 
> It is always a pleasure to read your post.  Always so serious and 
> straight from the heart.  Especially this post.  Because...
> 
> Before I reply, please excuse me first.  Because I trapped you with 
this 
> small statement to illustrate a point.  hahaha...
> 
> Roshi(老師) - is indeed a Japanese pronunciation for the same 
> character of (老師) pronounces Lao-Shi in Chinese, which is 
what I am 
> called in the Chinese community. 
> While the naming of American Zen Association has the opposite 
story.  At 
> the time of our registration, I thought Zen is Chan, because they 
are 
> the same character in Chinese.
> 
> Now what is the point?  The point is, labels are confusing.  That's 
> all....  And you fell for it.  Sorry.
> 
> It does not matter at all, my friend.  State of our Inner Self is 
the 
> only thing matters.
> 
> I will address your other longer post after dinner.  OK?  Stay 
Tuned. 
> 
> Sorry again,
> _/\_
> JM
> 
> 
> Bill Smart wrote:
> >
> > JMJM:
> >
> > AND ANOTHER THING...
> >
> > (Sorry for the second posting so soon after my last, but I'm on my
> > second cup of tea this mornig and my inner self is in a frenzy. It
> > wants to reach out and CHI someone!)
> >
> > Here is my question:
> >
> > You are a teacher in a Chan school. Chan is Chinese. You spell and
> > pronouce Chi as 'Chi' which is modern Chinese (as opposed to 'ki' 
as
> > in Japnese' or 'qi' traditional or some other kind of Chinese.) 
Your
> > family name is Hwong. Isn't that Chinese also?
> >
> > So...and here comes the question...Why is your title 'Roshi', 
which
> > is Japanese?
> >
> > Enquiring no-minds want to know...
> >
> > Bill!, Big Fish
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%
40yahoogroups.com>, 
> > "Bill Smart" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > >
> > > JMJM,
> > >
> > > I DID NOT agree with you that zen was 'just a mind-balancing
> > > exercise'. I agreed with you that zen was not spritual. Zen is 
no-
> > > mind, so there is nothing to balance - WYSIWYG, no adjustments
> > > necessary.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure what your remark below about my 'inner self' 
means. I
> > > guess you think I have an 'inner self' and that you know more 
about
> > > what it's doing than I. Please continue to let me know what it's
> > up
> > > to. I'd hate to have my inner self sneak up on me and surprise 
me.
> > >
> > > Buddha Nature, which I have called 'JUST THIS', is not in the 
realm
> > > of sprituality or maya. It is real. It is reality.
> > >
> > > Buddha Nature and Chi are not the same, or at least Buddha 
Nature,
> > as
> > > I know it, is not the same as what you have described Chi to be.
> > > You've described Chi as a universal energy that you can connect
> > with
> > > and detect in others, that you can cultivate and accumulate, 
that
> > you
> > > can learn to direct and channel, that you can use to heal 
yourself
> > > and others, that misuse can harm yourself and others, that you
> > > describe things you like as to having 'good' Chi and things you
> > don't
> > > as having 'bad' Chi. This sounds more like something sung about 
in
> > > the Beach Boy's song 'Good Vibrations'. (Good hamony there...)
> > >
> > > Some of the above qualities overlap with Buddha Nature, but
> > certainly
> > > not all of them. Buddha Nature is universal but you could not 
call
> > > it energy (or at least I wouldn't). You can 'connect' with it by
> > > becoming aware of it. You could say you can cultivate it, but 
what
> > > you really do is cultivate your awareness of it. You cannot
> > > accumulate it in the sense of 'storing it up', but you can
> > strengthen
> > > your awareness of it. You cannot direct or channel it, you 
follow
> > > it. You cannot use it to heal yourself and others, although the
> > > awareness of it has healing in the sense of acceptance and 
peace.
> > > You cannot use it to harm yourself or others, other than
> > > intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting Buddha Nature 
to
> > > others. There is no 'good' or 'bad' Buddha Nature.
> > >
> > > As you have described Chi, I think it has the same relationship
> > with
> > > Buddha Nature as I now beleive Chan has with zen. Chi 
represents a
> > > spritualized version of Buddha Nature as does Chan vis-a-vis 
zen,
> > > complete with add-on surpernatural qualities, superstitions,
> > wishful
> > > thinking and lots of attachment-magnets.
> > >
> > > (I just now made up the term attachment-magnets. Pretty cool,
> > huh?
> > > Feel free to use it without feeling obligated to cite me.)
> > >
> > > JMJM, you didn't comment on my title before when it was Bill!. I
> > > just got a new one: Big Fish. How do you like it? Does it have
> > good
> > > Chi or bad Chi? Can I heal or hurt someone with it? If I can, Al
> > > had better WATCH OUT!
> > >
> > > ...Bill!, Big Fish
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
覺妙精明
> > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On the contrary, Al. What I meant was, if Bill admitted at the
> > > > beginning that Zen is just a mental balancing exercise, then 
my
> > > point is
> > > > made. Since his did not agree with my observation, yet his 
Inner
> > > Self
> > > > did, he had convinced himself that there could be 
spirituality.
> > > > Spirituality in my dictionary is Buddha Nature. :-)
> > > >
> > > > There is no one to convert to no where. Just some are more
> > > delusional
> > > > than others. No offense.
> > > >
> > > > Fitness63 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - >Hi Bill, Your post was what I
> > > expected. If
> > > > > you
> > > > > had mentioned in the first place that spirituality to you 
has
> > no
> > > meaning,
> > > > > then I don't have to write that many posts. :-) JM
> > > > >
> > > > > You sound like a missionary who tries to convert a heathen 
and
> > > then says
> > > > > "What could I expect from a heathen" when the conversion 
fails!!
> > > > >
> > > > > That is funny when I see things in zen that are just like
> > > Christianity
> > > > > and
> > > > > then it makes me wonder if the cynics are right.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then again, I learned something from this, so thanks for 
trying
> > > to
> > > > > convert
> > > > > Bill. You may have missed the big fish but gotten some 
little
> > > ones.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>



------------------------------------

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