Bill,

I don't think satori is a term used just for a first awakening implying there may be others. There is some disagreement, but in almost all of the Zen enlightenment stories satori is described as if it is a permanent and irreversible transition. Frankly I doubt that is true in all cases. If so each would still be a satori.


Edgar



On Sep 18, 2008, at 3:32 PM, Bill Smart wrote:

JMJM,

'Satori' is a term used in Japanese Zen Buddhism to describe the
first awakening. It is thought to come suddenly (even though there
might have been a lot of preparation), and is thought to be temporary
(does not last a long time - maybe just minutes with a strong memory
or sense of what it was like lasting for days and months). There is
thought to be a difference in 'satori' and 'enlightenment' only in
degree of awareness and durability (how long it lasts) of the
experience. Fundamentally awakening is awakening. There is no
difference.

In Japanese Zen Buddhism teachings, after satori, would come a
regimine of either continued zazen (shikantaza) or koan study - or
both. Both of these would be done under the tutelege of a zen roshi
who would direct the students teaching during dokusans (private
interviews). Dokusans are usually daily, but depending on the number
of students could be more or less than that. During this period the
roshi helps the student refine his/her awakening experience so that
it can be gradually incorporated into the everyday activies of the
student.

This is the way I was taught in a Japanese Zen Buddhist zendo many
years ago. All of this does not now represent my current
understanding of 'enlightenment' (Just THIS!).

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi, What I meant was, Edgar mentioned enlightenment comes after
Satori.
> Is there anything else we could to do to realize that? How about
to be
> Buddha? Do you talk about any of these? Do you talk about merit?
Or
> just slap on your face? Thanks, Donald ?
>
> Bill Smart wrote:
> >
> > After satori some lose the ability to write complete sentences and
> > respond to everything in loosely connected phrases...
> >
> > Just kidding! ;>)
> >
> > Siminotes, Welcome! I haven't seen you on the forum before. I hope
> > you will continue to participate. I enjoy your posts. I especially
> > enjoyed one a few posts ago in which you posted:
> >
> > "Self arises and dissapears with interaction."
> >
> > "The Self is a by product, not a permanent thing."
> >
> > I liked this description a lot....Bill!
> >
> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Zen_Forum%
40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "siminotes" <dscochrain@> wrote:
> > >
> > > peace and serenity...
> > >
> > > and nothing special.....living our lives and learning to be more
> > > skillful.
> > >
> > > no difference, satori no satori....
> > >
> > > just more aware...
> > >
> > > nothing special....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com>, Jue Miao Jing Ming -
覺妙精明
> > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Guys,
> > > >
> > > > What does your teaching say, if any, what to do after Satori?
> > > >
> > > > Of course, all teaching by itself is maya. But the teacher may
> > > have
> > > > said something....
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > JM
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




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