'Accountability' is covered in Buddhism by the concept of karma, and in the
Christian concept of 'as you sow, so shall you reap', or a more positive
spin 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.  Karma is neither
good nor bad, it's just a cosmic or spiritual version of cause-effect.  So
if you're interested in Zen Buddhism, karma is the ultimate enforcer of

In zen (small case 'z') however, karma is maya - a teaching tool.  In zen
'accountability' has no meaning.  In zen there is no self.  Who is there to
account for?  If there is no self, actions are Just ACTIONS, they are not
associated with a self. What is there to account for?

I know this will not be a satisfactory answer for you because you equate
no-accountability with social chaos and think that is bad.  Some might
equate no-accountability with complete freedom and think that is good.  Both
of these are wrong because they assign a dualistic quality to

If this bothers you a lot, and I assume it does since I've seen similar
posts from you before, then you can find the accountability you seek in the
Buddhist concept of karma.



From: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Al
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 1:19 AM
Subject: [Zen] Zen and Accountability

In Zen (and/or Chan), what is Accountability? One issue that has come 
up many times over the years is that some folks think Zen is just "Do 
whatever you want, whenever you want, to or with whomever you want." 
This philosophy goes to everything, including sex, relationships, 
money, etc. 

So is that what Zen is? If you ever ask, "Does Zen have a position 
against X, Y, or Z?" The answer is usually not very clear. Is there 
anything in Zen against betrayal, theft, adultery, etc?? 

Even if there is, what is the accountability of any person for their 
sins or misdeeds or karma??? 

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