Hi Edgar,

Let me try again.  First of all, there is no good karma or bad karma.  
Karma is simply just an energy caused by action.  As it propagates, it 
causes some other actions.  That's all. And the concept of reward could 
a political term used to control or for some to rationalize.

When one practices enough chi based meditation, one will witnesses how 
karma can be senses and transferred.  There is enough cases for me to 
confidently say that there are karma in present life as well as previous 

Karma is a label to describe an energy form without time limits.  It is 
us human trying to label it whether it belongs to this life or previous. 

The so called "good reward" is nothing but calmness resulting from lack 
of karma.  "bad reward" are jitters caused lots of karma.

I hope it is clearer this time.

Edgar Owen wrote:
> JM,
> Cause and effect are real characteristics of the consistency of 
> illusion. I don't challenge the notion of physical causality as the 
> basis of the consistency of the world of illusion. I do think the 
> standard notion of karma, that good actions must always bring good 
> back to the doer and likewise evil, is an idiotic superstition. One 
> only has to look around at all the 'bad' things that constantly happen 
> to 'good' people to prove it is nonsense. When one has to retreat to 
> the past lives superstition to back up the superstition of karma, it 
> gets pretty obvious they are both unsubstantiated. Of course there are 
> often rough correlations since if one treats someone a certain way one 
> is more likely they will also treat you the same way, but the karmic 
> notion that it is somehow inevitable is a dangerous illusion just 
> designed to make suffering people think they will be better off in the 
> future. And this dangerous illusion has been routinely used by leaders 
> to exploit people for centuries, just as the illusion of good people 
> going to heaven in Christianity so they will better tolerate 
> exploitation in this life has been.
> The world is pretty common sensical, not parapsychological, one needs 
> to be brave to confront the simple obvious truth, and confronting the 
> truth, the reality of things is precisely Zen.
> Edgar
> On Oct 4, 2008, at 12:32 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
>> Hi Edgar,
>> On second look at my own post, it can be interpreted as per your post 
>> below. I apologize. What I am trying to say is.....
>> Concept of justice is a judgment call exists in our mind only. There is 
>> no such concept in the universe.
>> The peace and quiet is the true state of our well being within. The 
>> suffering of our well being is also within. I should not have used the 
>> word of "reward". I meant to say that the state of our well being is 
>> the result of our own action. No matter how we appear on the surface, 
>> in the long run, our action always cause some "disturbance" and these 
>> disturbance propagates. When the right moment emerges, these floating 
>> causes will turn into events.
>> Karma, or energy disturbance, or unsynchronized chi, is real. It is a 
>> real energy can be sensed and transferred. Too many practitioners in 
>> our school personally witness already. Not a handful of cases, but 
>> thousands of cases. You can too after a few years of our practice. 
>> Karma is not a concept. It is a form of chi. 
>> I hope, I made it a bit more clearer this time.
>> JM
>> Edgar Owen wrote:
>> >
>> > JM,
>> >
>> >
>> > The whole idea of karma, or fairness or justice in life is an 
>> > illusion. Zen is dealing with what actually happens and not expecting 
>> > 'good' things to happen because we are 'good'. True Zen is keeping 
>> > one's Zen no matter how 'good' or 'bad' things are, no matter what 
>> > happens. Zen is not doing 'good' in expectation of some reward. There 
>> > is no 'measure' to whether things are 'better' or 'worse' in Zen. 
>> > There is no relativity. Things just are as they are. An eternal 
>> > mystery continuously revealed.
>> >
>> > Edgar
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Oct 3, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well, these are important questions, Al. Chan does not have a big Bible
>> >> or Superior Court. My personal experience is that everyone of us are 
>> >> rewarded accordingly. Meaning, we suffer because what we have done in 
>> >> this life or previous. We are peaceful and content also because what we
>> >> have done in this life or previous lives. By looking inward, we 
>> will be 
>> >> able to differentiate what internal cause and what's external cause. 
>> >> External cause are usually from previous lives.
>> >>
>> >> Through dedicated proper meditation, we can reduce the external 
>> >> accidents and surprises. In other words, each is really on his own 
>> >> path. This may sound cold and unkind. That is however my experience. 
>> >> Gradually events do evolve.
>> >>
>> >> Instead of measure the deeds of others, let us work on our own. In my 
>> >> next email I will address your other email about aging. It is also an 
>> >> important question.
>> >>
>> >> _/\_
>> >>
>> >> Al wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > In Zen (and/or Chan), what is Accountability? One issue that has come
>> >> > up many times over the years is that some folks think Zen is just "Do
>> >> > whatever you want, whenever you want, to or with whomever you want."
>> >> > This philosophy goes to everything, including sex, relationships,
>> >> > money, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > So is that what Zen is? If you ever ask, "Does Zen have a position
>> >> > against X, Y, or Z?" The answer is usually not very clear. Is there
>> >> > anything in Zen against betrayal, theft, adultery, etc??
>> >> >
>> >> > Even if there is, what is the accountability of any person for their
>> >> > sins or misdeeds or karma???
>> >> >
>> >> > 
>> >>
>> >
>> > 


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