It's not very enlightened of me, I know, but I'm sorry I started this
part of the thread. I don't want to make anyone feel bad for believing
whatever they believe. I don't want to be misunderstood or made out a
monster for believing what I believe. I mean no offense to anyone by
anything written here.

How to explain. . . . .

When one has Satori (or realization or whatever you want to call it)
one realizes that the true self was always there, one just couldn't
"see" it. One also realizes that not everyone knows or sees their true
self. This is not their "fault" - they can't help it. The best example
I can think of is diapers and potty training children. We do not hold
babies accountable for messing their pants, we put a diaper on them to
limit the mess and we clean up when they do. When we begin potty
training we do not expect them to instantly know how to control their
bowels and bladder. We sit them on the potty and wait for them to
figure it out and keep cleaning them up. Eventually they understand
and we are all free of messy diapers and underwear.

This is how I look at accountability issues... Most people are not
purposely vicious and don't set out purposely to cause harm or damage.
They aren't accountable. And everyone- no matter how enlightened,
noble, intelligent, etc- makes mistakes. People should admit their
mistakes and do their best to make amends and rectify them. 

HOWEVER, there are people who do know what they are doing is harmful
or "wrong" and they choose to do it anyway. These people are dangerous
and should be HUMANELY imprisoned so they cannot hurt others. 

When we give up our attachment to our false self or ego self, we "grow
a thicker skin", we stop taking things personally. Outside of rape,
other people's sexuality cannot hurt me. Can people do
self-destructive things with sex? Absolutely. In my view these people
need compassion and support, not a lecture on morals. Most of what
other people do cannot hurt me unless *I* let it.

It really isn't that I think "anything goes". Look around you.
Anything is already going. All the morals in the world haven't stopped
it and probably never will. It's a waste of time and energy.
I rather use my energy in caring for and supporting those who are
wounded and hurting by what some people call a lack of morality.

I also think ignorance can be a terribly destructive thing - but it is
a curable condition. If people are have access to all the relevant
information, they usually make good choices. 

I don't know if I've made any sense in this poet or not...

Margie (roloro1557)

--- In, "Al" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In Zen (and/or Chan), what is Accountability? One issue that has come 
> up many times over the years is that some folks think Zen is just "Do 
> whatever you want, whenever you want, to or with whomever you want." 
> This philosophy goes to everything, including sex, relationships, 
> money, etc. 
> So is that what Zen is? If you ever ask, "Does Zen have a position 
> against X, Y, or Z?" The answer is usually not very clear. Is there 
> anything in Zen against betrayal, theft, adultery, etc?? 
> Even if there is, what is the accountability of any person for their 
> sins or misdeeds or karma???


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