Siska:
Reading books is educative. Nothing wrong about reading. A different matter
is how a reading is interpreted, or taking the words from that book as a kind
of ultimate truth and things like that. For instance a frequent experience
I keep coming across in Internet is the number of people who do zen
readings and afterwards they go to websites pretending that they know a lot
about zen without actually having any direct experience about the subject. I
have witnessed at times that when a real practitioner has call the attention of
that kind of people with the only intention of helping them, guiding them to
the real thing, these sort of no real practitioners usually get upset and react
as very offended. So the reading in this case was useless as it added more
new notions into that person mind. Everything in life is there available to
all of us, it depends upon us how do we use it. That is our choice.
I hear about Krishnamurti but never met any of his followers before. How long
were you involved in that?. What was your meditative experience under the
subject you mention : "The meditation instruction is only to be aware of what
is at each moment"?. This sound alike but a little bit more complete as: "To
be aware about all what is going on in the body and the mind plus
surroundings". which is what sometimes in theory/ Sometimes in action I base
myself practise. In addition. When I'm very full of everything all what I do
it's simply to sit down and breathe.
Still think that if one can find the appropriate Teacher, Guide or Someone
experienced in the practise it will benefit and shorten the fatigue, going in
circles and time. There are many things about us that we can't face by
oneselves alone. And a Teacher is great for that purpose. There is also the
problem of the ego which can be at time extremely difficult to be detected if
one doesn't have much experience in the practise. A zen teacher doesn't do the
job for one. A zen teacher only gives instructions for one start to uncover
all the layers there....
Nice talking to you
Mayka
-- On Thu, 28/10/10, siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 28 October, 2010, 5:49
Mayka,
What you said below made me realised that I've brushed aside anything that has
got to do with rituals and traditions while I'm reading below two books.
Perhaps not a wise thing to do?
I first came to know meditation through the Mahasi tradition. Later I attended
retreats that are based on Buddhist vipassana meditation with J.Krishnamurti's
approach (that's how they describe the approach). There are controversies on
this approach, but I find it quite suitable for me. The meditation instruction
is only to be aware of what is at each moment, which can be anything, but I
find it mostly to be merely thoughts (perhaps what this forum refers to as
"illusions").
When I learned that in Zen, the advice is also to just sit. This sounds very
similar to me.
This Vipassana approach, as it is with Krishnamurti, 'refuses' teacher-student
relationship so that we don't attach to anything that any teacher says or tells
us. Instead, we are to see with ourselves. As the book says, Zen mind is a
beginner's mind. Anything pre-conceived hinders our practice. I just realised
I'm that much conditioned to this that I thought there shouldn't be any teacher
needed in Zen either :-)
thanks for this discussions!
> If you like to waste your time then no bother to look for a Teacher because a
> Teacher won't let you to waste it.
Or maybe I'd look for one who'd tell me to waste it ;-)
siska
From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com>
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 18:01:38 +0100 (BST)
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Siska:
I don't know if having a Teacher is compulsory but I can tell you that is
certainly strongly adviced by experienced zen practitioners. The writers of
the books you mentioned in previous posting both were instructed by Teachers.
There is also the alternative of sitting down with a group of people and having
some support into your practice. Do you do a sitting down?
If you like to waste your time then no bother to look for a Teacher because a
Teacher won't let you to waste it.
Mayka
--- On Wed, 27/10/10, siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010, 16:20
Hi Mayka,
Thanks!
Is it compulsory to train with a teacher? It's hard to find any here.
As for now, I can't find any better way to waste my time than being here. After
all, what do I do with it if not to waste? ;-)
siska
From: Maria Lopez <flordel...@btinternet.com>
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:04:35 +0100 (BST)
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Welcome to the zen forum Siska.
Lay back and enjoy the ride. Unluckily you can find the answer of your
questioning in a Internet forum. Sit down and shut up is advisable towards
having a glimpse to the direct experience of Buddha nature. Google and Ed are
Internet leaflets of commercial zen information but not the place itself.
Searching for a reliable Teacher, with a direct experience of what he may be
teaching about (Walking the talk), and working with him instructions is the
wises action you could do if you are honestly interested in zen. Differently
here in the forum you'll be having a great entertainment but not much of real
zen. In a few words, you are wasting your time. But enjoy the ride and tides
with us anyway!
Hope this helps a little bit.
Mayka
--- On Wed, 27/10/10, siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: siska_...@yahoo.com <siska_...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010, 2:05
Hello Ed,
Thanks for the welcome :)
I am not familiar with the terms being used here, especially when you all are
discussing about "buddha nature", "zen", "the Law" and all that. The way I
understand it from this forum, there are no fix definitions for the terms
anyway and I somehow feel that is the way it should be.
I'm currently reading Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind and I read Sit Down and Shut Up
(or was it Shut up and Sit Down?) and I quite like both.
Looking forward to learning more from this forum.
Wow, seventeen trillion events......
siska
From: "ED" <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:44:50 -0000
To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
siska,
Welcome to the Zen Forum.
If you like what you have just seen, you must be (at least partially)
enlightened.
The Buddha might say: "Seventeen trillion events transpired in the course of
that interchange."
I look forward to your joining in the conversations.
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_...@... wrote:
Hi All,
I'm new to this list and I'm new to Zen. I think I like this list.
siska
Mayka,
I'm sorry that you feel that way.
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez <flordel...@...> wrote:
>
> ALL WHAT I MEAN IS THAT YOU HAVE BORED ME TO DEATH. LET ME ALONE!!!! GET
> LOST. DO YOUÂ GET IT NOW????...GOSH!!!
