Many thanks, Anthony

As far as I understand Buddhism, only different ways.
Any of them would be the appropiate for me.
Just trying to find it.

With best wishes

Lluís

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anthony Wu 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 12:33 AM
  Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices


    
        Lluis,

        Probably both Emperor Akbhar and the Sixth Patriarch Huinent were 
dislexic, and both were very intelligent as well. They have a lot in common. 
The Sixth Patriarch Huineng does not belong to any Tibetan lineages such as 
represented by Naropa, Tilopa etc. Huineng belongs to the lineage initiated by 
Bodhidharma, an Indian monk who came to China to start the zen school. 

        Some compare Tibetan Tantrism to color TV, while zen, black and white 
TV. If you can enjoy the simplicity of a black and white TV, welcome to zen. 
Otherwise a color TV is more colorful.

        Anthony

        --- On Thu, 25/11/10, Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es> wrote:


          From: Lluís Mendieta <lme...@intermail.es>
          Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 5:34 AM


            
           
          Hi, Anthony

          "You say: "  The Sixth Patriarch did not even read or write." Yes, 
you are right, but he asked others to read and write for him, because he was 
illiterate. In other words, he had trouble with Chinese ideographic characters, 
but he was very smart in understanding language. That is a paradox."

          Moghul emperor Akbhar is said that he could not read not write (he 
seems that was dislexic). Nevertheless, he had an extremely good memoire, was 
extremely inteligent...and founded his own religion (illahi; his coins could be 
read Allah is great...or Akbhar is God). For what I read, only two adherents: 
himself and a counsellor....

          Could not be that sixth patriarch (may I ask, ignorant of me, of 
which line? I am used to the line of Kargyuptas. Tilopa, Naropa, Marpa, 
Milarepa. No much more....), just be dislexic?. Not so uncommon

          All blessings have its hinderings.

          With best wishes

          Lluís

            ----- Original Message ----- 
            From: Anthony Wu 
            To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
            Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2010 10:24 PM
            Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices


              
                  JMJM,

                  You say: " Kensho『見性』 is resulted from sitting, which is a 
state before Samadhi『三摩地』"。 I think kensho results from sitting and it is a 
state after samadhi. That is what most people think. If you think otherwise, 
perhaps you had a unique experience.

                  You say: "  The Sixth Patriarch did not even read or write." 
Yes, you are right, but he asked others to read and write for him, because he 
was illiterate. In other words, he had trouble with Chinese ideographic 
characters, but he was very smart in understanding language. That is a paradox.

                  You say: " Heart is the center of our true "spiritual being". 
『靈性』。" This word is better translated into 'mind' in English. ' Heart' is not 
the right word.

                  You say: " 覺妙精明合十頂禮
                  禪宗第八十六代總教授師。
                   
                  I bow back to you.

                  Anthony




                  --- On Wed, 24/11/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<chan.j...@gmail.com> wrote:


                    From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@gmail.com>
                    Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
                    To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, 24 November, 2010, 8:47 AM


                      
                    Hi Anthony,

                    1.  Yes, you are right。 Kensho『見性』 is resulted from 
sitting, which is a state before Samadhi『三摩地』。All these descriptions are 
resulted from sitting.  No different from describing the taste of Apple.
                    2.  Don't know what you were trying to say.
                    3.  Heart is everything you were talking about.  It is the 
integration of our mind and our physical being.  Also mind is the collection of 
every cell in our body.  Heart is our complete being.  Heart is the center of 
our true "spiritual being". 『靈性』。  Please do not analyze, categorize, think in 
terms of words.  Practice and you shall witness. Heart is extremely powerful.

                    All words are just descriptions of various states of being. 
 Studying these words, like ED was doing, is NOT practice.  These two domains 
do not intersect.  Let me share a phrase with you from one China man to another.

                    達摩祖師於其血脈論中說:「見性為禪,若不見性,即非禪 也。」又說:「性及是心,心即是佛,佛即是道,道即是禪。」

                    覺妙精明合十頂禮
                    禪宗第八十六代總教授師。

Be Enlightened In This
 Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

                    On 11/23/2010 12:51 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: 
                        
                            JMJM,

                            Most of your remarks make sense. But there is a 
problem with the following:

                            Most of us consider kensho a result of stillness, 
but you think it the other way around.

                            Yes, the Sixth Patriarch did not write, because he 
was unable to. He was illiterate. That does not mean he did not want to. His 
famous poem was dictated by him and written by his fellow student on the wall, 
to counter a different idea by Shenxiu. On the other hand, he read with or 
without the help of others, including his teacher. His favorite reading was the 
Diamond Sutra.

                            The third point is about the 'heart'. What do you 
think it is? The organ that can be transplanted? An emotional center that is 
used in the expression: I love my girl friend with all my heart? Or one of the 
centers where you can manipulate your 'chi' (heart chakra)?

                            Anthony

                            --- On Tue, 23/11/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<chan.j...@gmail.com> wrote:


                              From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
<chan.j...@gmail.com>
                              Subject: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
                              To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Tuesday, 23 November, 2010, 9:20 AM


                                
                              Hi All,

                              The three fundamental Buddhist practices is 
"Discipline, Meditation, Wisdom".  In Pali, they are "sila, samadhi, panna", or 
translated into "morality, stillness, wisdom." Word wise, jhana and samadhi and 
stillness are the same. Morality and discipline are the same.  Some of you may 
disagree about this "same".  They are the "same" in practice.  They are 
different only in our heads.

                              As you know, Chan is not taught through words.  
Chan is about practice.  Let me explain.

                              My Teacher calls the first practice 
"purification".  When our body and mind become pure, we automatically 
disciplined and moral.  I call the first practice "detox".  Detox from all our 
habits - habitual concepts, habitual actions, habitual food, habitual life 
style.  It is like a reboot.

                              When we reach this clean state of being, then we 
reach samadhi, jhana, stillness or just Ding, as we call it in our school.  It 
is a state of stillness, yet spacious, expansive, clear, thoughtless......

                              Maintaining in this state, enables us to be in 
sync with the energy and wisdom of the universe.

                              Kensho is when our heart outshines our mind.  It 
is also a description of state.  Usually it means a state of clear mind or 
stillness before we reach samadhi.  

                              Shigantaza however is the same practice (from the 
discipline, through sitting to clear mind to kensho).

                              In short, if we can detach ourselves from the 
descriptions from these states and simply Just Sit without thoughts and 
cultivate our chi. We can reach all these states.

                              In our school, we have a fourth state, our 
Teacher calls it, liberation.  It means liberation of our heart after we quiet 
or clear our mind.  

                              There is really no need to comprehend, just 
practice.  The Sixth Patriarch did not even read or write.

                              :-) 

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

                              On 11/22/2010 6:47 AM, billsm...@hhs1963.org 
wrote: 
                                  
                                ED,

                                My formal teaching has been in Japanese Zen 
Buddhism so most of the terms of which I am familiar are Japanese.

                                These are my understanding of some of the terms 
we've been using:

                                Kensho: A brief and temporary glimpse of Buddha 
Nature.

                                Satori: Essentially the same as kensho but a 
much more long-lasting and persistent awareness of Buddha Nature.

                                Shikantaza: 'Clear Mind', pure awareness. I 
call this state 'Just THIS!'. Clear Mind with Awareness = Buddha Mind/Buddha 
Nature. Wikipedia defines shikantaza as: .. (只管打坐?) ... a Japanese term for 
zazen introduced by Rujing and associated most with the Soto school of Zen 
Buddhism, but which also is "the base of all Zen disciplines." According to 
Dōgen Zenji, shikantaza i.e. resting in a state of brightly alert attention 
that is free of thoughts, directed to no object, and attached to no particular 
content—is the highest or purest form of zazen, zazen as it was practiced by 
all the buddhas of the past. 

                                Samadhi: I am familiar with this term only from 
reading. It always seemed to me to be the same as shikantaza. Wikipedia defines 
samadhi as: "...a non-dualistic state of consciousness in which the 
consciousness of the experiencing subject becomes one with the experienced 
object, and in which the mind becomes still, one-pointed or concentrated though 
the person remains conscious. In Buddhism, it can also refer to an abiding in 
which mind becomes very still but does not merge with the object of attention, 
and is thus able to observe and gain insight into the changing flow of 
experience."

                                The Thai's use the term 'samadhi' to refer to 
Theravada Buddhist meditation. They have a different word 'glai-glia' to refer 
to other types of mediation.

                                >From my experience Clear Mind/shikantaza 
(samadhi?) and kensho/satori are virtually the same. The only difference is 
that kensho/satori denotes the point that you become AWARE of Clear Mind 
(samadhi?). So if you have to put them in some kind of time sequence, first 
there is Clear Mind without awareness, then Kensho/Satori which is the 
realization/awareness of Clear Mind, and then Clear Mind continues with 
awareness.

                                Koans, in my experience, are used as a tool to 
stop the rational, discriminating mind's activities. It is only in this state 
than kensho/satori can occur. There are other ways to stop the discriminating 
mind such as just sitting (zazen). Eventually you will reach the state of 
shikantaza (samadhi?) in which a pure awareness can arise. This I call Buddha 
Mind/Buddha Nature. 

                                All of the above occurs IN THE ABSENCE of 
thinking/rationality/cognition. Part of zen practice AFTER kensho is to 
re-integrate thinking/rationality/cognition WITHOUT forming attachments to the 
concepts generated by thinking.

                                Having said all this I have to add the 
following caveat which is a paraphrase of Genjo's caveat on the 5 subdivisions 
of koans: 'any number of subdivisions and terms describing zen practice and 
awareness states could be devised, and all are ultimately meaningless. Zen is 
everyday life. Zen is nothing special. Zen is "Only Don't Know!". Zen is Just 
THIS!'

                                This is my experience.

                                ...Bill!


                           

                 

       



  

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