Good Morning  Dave,
 
I see.. This makes sense!  So, you are seeking to augment meds with other 
practices to find a better solution?
 
You don't mention whether or not you have tried different medications. I will 
assume you have.  I still suggest that you  take a step back, first.  You  have 
the wrong  doctor or health care team for you, if this has persisted for 15 
years without meaningful change  in your condition. Its time to re-examine your 
situation. Finding another approach with a different set of health 
professionals to assist you.
 
I don't know where you are located, or what your insurance or circumstances are 
right now, but I know there is a better solution out there.
 
As for the timed CD.. While I agree with JM's points on how waiting for a chime 
can become the focus, thereby  making the contemplative practice  somewhat 
pointless, I don't think the purpose right now is to become a serious Chan 
practitioner.
 
Its about coping effectively with a disorder that keeps his life out of 
balance.  Perhaps one day soon, he will  want to practice Chan intensely, but  
at this time, it seems more reasonable to get a better resolution with his OCD. 
Hence, I think  a timed CD is of value right now. 
 
Please take care..
 
Kristy
 
 
 


--- On Mon, 1/3/11, Dave P <wookielife...@yahoo.ca> wrote:


From: Dave P <wookielife...@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 7:42 AM


  




I am not sure where you got the impression that I am not taking medication. I 
have been taking medication for OCD for over 15 years. I would not be so 
frustrated if the medication had worked. I also help others all the time - it 
is my job.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu <wu...@...> wrote:
>
> Kristy,
>  
> Glad you are back. I am back too after absence for a short while. 
>  
> Your advice of being awake all the time may work for Dave. Or may not work. 
> He needs to try a hundred things until he finds something good.
>  
> A while ago, if you remember, you advised helping others. It is a good idea, 
> but he did not follow.
>  
> I suggested taking medicine. Again, he did not follow. 
>  
> Years ago, depression was thought to be a psychological disease. But now 
> doctors have found it results at least partly from chemical inbalances in the 
> body. So medicine works. I don't know about Dave's problems. Why not go to a 
> doctor and listen to his advice.
>  
> Anthony
> 
> --- On Sun, 2/1/11, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...>
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, 2 January, 2011, 6:56 AM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *bows* to Dave,
>  
> I haven't been following  this thread due to the holidays, but thought I'd 
> share this.  Another perspective..
>  
> >From  Small Boat, Great Mountain by Amaro Bhikkhu
> > 
> >
> >And so for about the first two or three weeks of the winter
> >retreat in 1987, Ajahn Sumedho kept telling people not to meditate:
> >
> >Just be awake.
> >He would say to us over and over again, Stop it, stop meditating!
> >He stressed this repeatedly and gave two or three
> >Dharma talks a day on not meditating. He would tell people to
> >open their eyes and stop trying to concentrate. Sometimes there
> >would be the plaintive cry, But what are we supposed to do?
> >For which the person would receive a response in thunderbolts
> >
> >saying, do!? Don’t do anything. You already are it. Don’t do
> >
> >anything. The methodology was identical to the undistracted
> >nonmeditation employed in Dzogchen practice.
> >He was trying to point out that dimension of doingness, busyness,
> >
> >that becoming quality that so easily takes over the meditation.
> >It can permeate the whole effort of spiritual practice. The
> >becoming tendency takes over and gets legitimized by being called
> >meditation or me becoming enlightened. Meanwhile, we miss
> >the fact that we are losing the main point and that what we are
> >doing has turned into a self-based program. We get caught in the
> >
> >illusion, trying to make the self become something other. As a
> >result, we lose track of the real essence of the practice. Making
> >the effort to see how this happens made this a very fruitful
> >
> >retreat. After about two or three weeks we were beginning to get
> >a sense of what it means to stay present: Don’t do something
> >now to become enlightened in the future. Just be awake now.
> 
> Be well in the New Year..
>  
> Kristy
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 1/1/11, Dave P <wookielife...@...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Dave P <wookielife...@...>
> Subject: [Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 10:39 AM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is under control, 
> and the difference between that and choice. There is the phrase "pain is 
> inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that there is truth in that, but 
> I still feel that choosing to feel one may nmeans that you have to ACT. That 
> your actions have consequences that you cannot control, a notion that 
> paralyzes me. Can mindfulness help with that? If so, how?
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
> <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> >
> > Happy New Year Ed,
> > 
> > Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very challenging 
> > task. Let me explain.
> > 
> > In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be aware but not 
> > attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not observing", are 
> > some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese text to 
> > English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every moment, 
> > and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the phrase we 
> > need to represent with a single word.
> > 
> > The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use are "be 
> > aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", "feel the 
> > chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions, feelings as 
> > well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual. We can 
> > not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> > 
> > We are very careful not to consistently use the same word. Especially 
> > the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and spirit, 
> > could require different verb for a similar function. Chan teaching 
> > requires flexibility.
> > 
> > The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the 
> > practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. After 5,000 
> > words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you think it is, it 
> > is not. It just is."
> > 
> > Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and just say, 
> > "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> > LOL.
> > 
> > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > http://www.heartchan.org
> > 
> > 
> > On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > JM,
> > >
> > > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> > >
> > > --ED
> > >
> > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 
> > > 覺妙精明 
> > > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> > >
> > > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and would not 
> > > let go. There is even a seminar about the small mind and big mind. 
> > > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> > >
> > > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily misunderstood and 
> > > misinterpreted.
> > >
> > > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we continue to 
> > > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and spirit."
> > >
> > > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the universe 
> > > is not emphasized in western Zen. Most of the reading that I have 
> > > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its awareness, not on 
> > > the body and little on the spirit. Though we constantly talked about 
> > > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and inseparable. 
> > > Just like the universe.
> > >
> > > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind. Awareness is a 
> > > function of our spirit, which reside in our heart. "Heart" is not 
> > > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or 
> > > "ONE". Awareness enhancement helps us to be awakened to the Absolute 
> > > Awareness of the universe.
> > >
> > > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say about our 
> > > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual karma, 
> > > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> > >
> > > After several years with this forum, I have read little about these. 
> > > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic hindrance 
> > > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> > >
> > > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> > >
> > > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too objectionable to ALL.
> > >
> > > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and understanding for 
> > > all the years.
> > > JMJM
> > > Head Teacher
> > > Order Of Chan
> > >
> > > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> > > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
> > > http://www.heartchan.org
> > >
> > > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> > >> Â
> > >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> > >> I wonder if something similar could be said about mindfulness. 
> > >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your attention 
> > >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is "mind 
> > >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness of your 
> > >> mind. Or am I way off here?
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>









      

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