Glad you are back. I am back too after absence for a short while. 
Your advice of being awake all the time may work for Dave. Or may not work. He 
needs to try a hundred things until he finds something good.
A while ago, if you remember, you advised helping others. It is a good idea, 
but he did not follow.
I suggested taking medicine. Again, he did not follow. 
Years ago, depression was thought to be a psychological disease. But now 
doctors have found it results at least partly from chemical inbalances in the 
body. So medicine works. I don't know about Dave's problems. Why not go to a 
doctor and listen to his advice.

--- On Sun, 2/1/11, Kristy McClain <> wrote:

From: Kristy McClain <>
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2
Date: Sunday, 2 January, 2011, 6:56 AM


*bows* to Dave,
I haven't been following  this thread due to the holidays, but thought I'd 
share this.  Another perspective..
>From  Small Boat, Great Mountain by Amaro Bhikkhu
>And so for about the first two or three weeks of the winter
>retreat in 1987, Ajahn Sumedho kept telling people not to meditate:
>Just be awake.
>He would say to us over and over again, Stop it, stop meditating!
>He stressed this repeatedly and gave two or three
>Dharma talks a day on not meditating. He would tell people to
>open their eyes and stop trying to concentrate. Sometimes there
>would be the plaintive cry, But what are we supposed to do?
>For which the person would receive a response in thunderbolts
>saying, do!? Don’t do anything. You already are it. Don’t do
>anything. The methodology was identical to the undistracted
>nonmeditation employed in Dzogchen practice.
>He was trying to point out that dimension of doingness, busyness,
>that becoming quality that so easily takes over the meditation.
>It can permeate the whole effort of spiritual practice. The
>becoming tendency takes over and gets legitimized by being called
>meditation or me becoming enlightened. Meanwhile, we miss
>the fact that we are losing the main point and that what we are
>doing has turned into a self-based program. We get caught in the
>illusion, trying to make the self become something other. As a
>result, we lose track of the real essence of the practice. Making
>the effort to see how this happens made this a very fruitful
>retreat. After about two or three weeks we were beginning to get
>a sense of what it means to stay present: Don’t do something
>now to become enlightened in the future. Just be awake now.

Be well in the New Year..

--- On Sat, 1/1/11, Dave P <> wrote:

From: Dave P <>
Subject: [Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2
Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 10:39 AM


Here's another dillemma i've had. the idea that everything is under control, 
and the difference between that and choice. There is the phrase "pain is 
inevitable, suffering is optional." I think that there is truth in that, but I 
still feel that choosing to feel one may nmeans that you have to ACT. That your 
actions have consequences that you cannot control, a notion that paralyzes me. 
Can mindfulness help with that? If so, how?

--- In, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 <chan.j...@...> 
> Happy New Year Ed,
> Propose another word in place of "mindfulness" is a very challenging 
> task. Let me explain.
> In the practice and dealing with everyday life, we say "Be aware but not 
> attached to", "focus but not focusing", "observe but not observing", are 
> some of the terms we use while we translate from our Chinese text to 
> English. In other words, "sync to the universal wisdom at every moment, 
> and not be attached to the meaning of the phenomena." is the phrase we 
> need to represent with a single word.
> The most common general terms as a verb in the practice, we use are "be 
> aware", "sense", "feel", etc. i.e. "sense our breathing", "feel the 
> chakra". They are usually terms applying also to emotions, feelings as 
> well as our general overall well being, physical and spiritual. We can 
> not separate our "true feeling" from our body or mind.
> We are very careful not to consistently use the same word. Especially 
> the practice to "notice" the conditions of our body, mind and spirit, 
> could require different verb for a similar function. Chan teaching 
> requires flexibility.
> The purpose of Chan wordings are nothing but to wake up the 
> practitioner, and not to set a path or a rule to follow. After 5,000 
> words, Diamond Sutra said only one thing, "Whatever you think it is, it 
> is not. It just is."
> Perhaps a lot of times, I am guilty in becoming lazy and just say, 
> "Shut up, Sit down and Stop thinking."
> LOL.
> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> On 1/1/2011 7:37 AM, ED wrote:
> >
> >
> > JM,
> >
> > What is your proposed definition of 'mindfulness'?
> >
> > --ED
> >
> > --- In, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 
> > <chan.jmjm@> wrote:
> > >
> > Thank you JDB. Indeed we also teach "emptiness of mind".
> >
> > Somehow the western Zen is stuck on the label of "mind" and would not 
> > let go. There is even a seminar about the small mind and big mind. 
> > Though all journeys lead to the same place.
> >
> > "Mind" is too close to "thinking". It can be easily misunderstood and 
> > misinterpreted.
> >
> > We teach "empty your mind", "enhance your heart". And we continue to 
> > say "because heart is where we could unify our body, mind and spirit."
> >
> > Somehow, unify our body to the same physical structure as the universe 
> > is not emphasized in western Zen. Most of the reading that I have 
> > encountered with focuses mainly on the mind and its awareness, not on 
> > the body and little on the spirit. Though we constantly talked about 
> > body, mind and spirit, but in essence, they are one and inseparable. 
> > Just like the universe.
> >
> > In our school, awareness does not reside in the mind. Awareness is a 
> > function of our spirit, which reside in our heart. "Heart" is not 
> > the organic heart, but our "total well being", our "center" or 
> > "ONE". Awareness enhancement helps us to be awakened to the Absolute 
> > Awareness of the universe.
> >
> > This brings this post to another question. What does Zen say about our 
> > spirit? Our spiritual levels, our spiritual being, spiritual karma, 
> > the sixth, seventh and eighth consciousness?
> >
> > After several years with this forum, I have read little about these. 
> > In other words, to be enlightened, we need to surpass karmic hindrance 
> > of body, mind and spirit. We need to work on all three.
> >
> > Otherwise, we are just imagining and hoping.
> >
> > On this New Year Day, I hope this post is not too objectionable to ALL.
> >
> > Happy New Year and thank you for your patience and understanding for 
> > all the years.
> > JMJM
> > Head Teacher
> > Order Of Chan
> >
> > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
> >
> >
> >
> > On 12/31/2010 10:12 PM, Rev. Joriki Dat Baker wrote:
> >> Â
> >> Or the emptiness of mind.
> >> I wonder if something similar could be said about mindfulness. 
> >> "Mindful" in the Western sense seems to be directing your attention 
> >> in one direction, However, maybe a better translation is "mind 
> >> fullness," as in you experience everything with the fullness of your 
> >> mind. Or am I way off here?
> >>
> >
> >
> >

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