subject:"Satelite systems"


I have posted to this ist before on the topic, so you may want to look
through the archives.

I have use StarBand (aka Dish) for over a year. Throughput has gotten
progressively worse as subscribership has climbed. Latency is always at
least 600ms.

If you aren't running win32 you should think twice. The service providers
are forcing this more and more in their accelerator technology, and as
hard as I have tried to penetrate their developement group to help with
their BST protocol, I have not succeeded. I have however created my own
BST-like replacement.

In general I'd say that it has served my needs sufficiently, but at this
stage, unless I see something change in their scaling model soon, I would
not recommend people consider it. Your modem will have better throughput
unless you are using the BST protocol, and even then, interactive sessions
may not be tollerable.

I would instead recommend a grass-roots effort to get an 802.11[ab] coop
operating in the region. Anyone _seriously_ interrested in making this
happen is invited to contact me, and I will introduce you to others that I
am working with to make this a reality.

- Marc

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Paul Lussier wrote:


 Hey,

 With all the talk about about DSL throughput, I'm wondering if anyone
 out there has any experience with either Dish Network's or DirecTV's
 satellite internet connectivity offerings.

 Evidently DirecTV is partnering with the likes of Earthlink, and
 they're offering *seems* cheaper than Dish Network's.

 They advertise 400K down/128K up with 1/2 second of latency.
 How does that compare with DSL/Cable modem? (I know it beats my 56K dialup :)

 The down side is that it costs a little more than I want it to:

   $399up front satellite dish cost
   $199installation costs
   $69.95/monthservice charge

 Currently I'm paying $21.95/month for 56K dial-up service + $23.xx
 for a second phone line.  So even after the up front costs of buying
 a dish and installation, I'd still be paying $25/month more than I am
 now :(  Of course, $25/month extra would probably be worth it for the
 always on capability.

 Does anyone have satellite access out there?  If so, what do you
 think about it?


 --

 Seeya,
 Paul
 

 God Bless America!

If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!

   ...we don't need to be perfect to be the best around,
   and we never stop trying to be better.
  Tom Clancy, The Bear and The Dragon



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Re: Satelite systems


Marc Evans should comment on Starband. The people I know who have DirecTV for Internet 
hate 
it. 

I do know several people who have satellite, and the only service that they like is 
Starband. 

I'll send you the name of the company that hooked up my friend Larry (who lives in 
Holland, Ma 
but might just as well be in Siberia, phone wise) and also who hooked up Marc. 

On 18 Feb 2002 at 15:26, Paul Lussier wrote:

 
 Hey,
 
 With all the talk about about DSL throughput, I'm wondering if anyone 
 out there has any experience with either Dish Network's or DirecTV's 
 satellite internet connectivity offerings.
 
 Evidently DirecTV is partnering with the likes of Earthlink, and 
 they're offering *seems* cheaper than Dish Network's.
 
 They advertise 400K down/128K up with 1/2 second of latency.
 How does that compare with DSL/Cable modem? (I know it beats my 56K dialup :)
 
 The down side is that it costs a little more than I want it to:
 
   $399up front satellite dish cost
   $199installation costs
   $69.95/monthservice charge
 
 Currently I'm paying $21.95/month for 56K dial-up service + $23.xx 
 for a second phone line.  So even after the up front costs of buying 
 a dish and installation, I'd still be paying $25/month more than I am 
 now :(  Of course, $25/month extra would probably be worth it for the 
 always on capability.
 
 Does anyone have satellite access out there?  If so, what do you 
 think about it?
 
 
 -- 
 
 Seeya,
 Paul
 
 
 God Bless America!
 
If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right!
 
   ...we don't need to be perfect to be the best around,
   and we never stop trying to be better. 
  Tom Clancy, The Bear and The Dragon
 
 
 
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Associate Director
Boston Linux and Unix user group
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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Paul Lussier wrote:
 Does anyone have satellite access out there?  If so, what do you think
 about it?

  We have a client who signed up with StarBand's two-way satellite Internet
service.  It generally works, with one major problem: The latency is HORRID.  
Time to ping the next hop is around 700 or 800 ms.  RTT to arbitrary hosts
on the Internet is measured in seconds -- I've seen RTTs as high as seven
seconds!

  The problem is one of distance.  Say you want to ping your next door
neighbor.  On landline, your packet might go to your ISP, to their ISP, to a
PoP in Boston, maybe to a peering point in New York City, and back down
another route to your neighbor's ISP.  All in all, between 500 and 2000
miles of copper, worst-case.

  Geosynchronous orbit is roughly 22,000 miles straight up.

  Your request has to go 22,000 miles into space, turn around and go 22,000
miles to the ISP's ground-station, travel on the Internet, get processed,
return to the ground-station, travel 22,000 miles up, and then 22,000 miles
back down to you, for a grand total of almost 100,000 miles.

  Just to ping.

  We don't normally think of TCP as an interactive application.  Believe me,
when you've got latency like that, it is.  Web browsing is agonizing.  
Forget anything like Telnet, SSH, IRC, VoIP, etc.

  Our client hates it.  Unfortunately, they locked themselves into a
one-year contract.  (They did all this without asking us, of course.)

  Also, the service is very heavily centered around MS-Windows, and they do
some goofy things with routing (like hand out default routes which are
unreachable without manual routing table updates).

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
| necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |



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Re: Satelite systems

2002-02-18 Thread Bayard Coolidge USG



Benjamin Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

  Geosynchronous orbit is roughly 22,000 miles straight up.

 Your request has to go 22,000 miles into space, turn around
 and go 22,000 miles...

Actually, it's more like 22,400 miles straight up from the _equator_.
The slant range from our neck of the woods (i.e. 42-43 degrees or so
north latitude) is going to be significantly greater than that! I'll
leave the exact calculations to someone else, but the point is that
it's actually going to be a lot worse than Ben's already gloomy news.
(OK, granted DirecTV/DirecPC's uplinks might be in south Florida or
Colorado or wherever, but those latitudes, and ours, still have to
be factored in... In any case, it's not a pretty picture...)

I prefer a non-RF approach, generally speaking. One, I'm a ham and the
noise floor on our microwave bands is going to get worse as time goes
on, and second, it means that fewer people can listen in on my packets :-)

Bayard

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Re: Satelite systems


This isn't an answer to make things happen quickly, but a well
written complaint to the NH Public Utility Commision by as many people as
possible, that have been explicitely turned down by Verizon as not being
loop qualified, will probably help. There is currently at least two
dockets open in the PUC that this would act as fuel for, and the
commisioners would probably like to hear from you.

Also, supporting ISPs that are members of the NH ISP Association
(www.nhispa.org) may help too, as they are actively fighting through the
PUC and other venues to gain access to be able to better provide broadband
within the state.

- Marc

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Paul Lussier wrote:


 In a message dated: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:53:18 EST
 Benjamin Scott said:

   We don't normally think of TCP as an interactive application.  Believe me,
 when you've got latency like that, it is.  Web browsing is agonizing.
 Forget anything like Telnet, SSH, IRC, VoIP, etc.
 
   Also, the service is very heavily centered around MS-Windows, and they do
 some goofy things with routing (like hand out default routes which are
 unreachable without manual routing table updates).

 So what I'm hearing is, stay with dial-up :(

 Okay, next question then, anyone have any ideas on how to get Verizon
 or ATT to get off their collective behinds and get either DSL or
 cable-modem access into a town?  I currently can not get either
 service (local CO is *not* equipped for DSL by *anyone* and ATT is
 not offering cable modem access in my town, which is a former
 cablevision town!).


 Seeya,
 Paul (who is starving for high-speed internet access)


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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Paul Lussier wrote:
 So what I'm hearing is, stay with dial-up :(

  Believe me, if there was something better than my 26 kilobit part-time
dial-up available, I would use it!  :-)

  The only practical options are ISDN and leased lines.  ISDN isn't
*completely* insane; you can get a dedicated, 24x7, 144 kilobit connection
for $200/month or so.  Lease lines start at around $300/month for a 56
kilobit feed, and you pay per foot to the CO on the install.

 Okay, next question then, anyone have any ideas on how to get Verizon or
 ATT to get off their collective behinds and get either DSL or cable-modem
 access into a town?

  Good fscking luck.  We don't care.  We don't have to.  We're The Phone
Company.  Verizon has no incentive to do anything for you.  See my recent
tirade about how Verizon owns the local lines *and* offers services over
them.

  The cable situation isn't much better.  I don't know what it costs to
upgrade a cable plant, but unless they see a reasonable chance of ROI in
your community, they won't bother.  And they have little to no competition.  
If you get enough of your community up in arms, and petition the town to
throw the cable company out of town, they might take notice -- but I've seen
even that fail.

 I currently can not get either service (local CO is *not* equipped for DSL
 by *anyone* ...

  How far are you from your CO (or DLC/SLIC box)?  If you are over 18,000
feet or so, DSL is out-of-the-question, regardless.

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
 This isn't an answer to make things happen quickly, but a well written
 complaint to the NH Public Utility Commision ...

  Hah!  Through sad, hard personal experience, I know that the NH PUC
doesn't give two turds in a box about individual subscribers.

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |


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Re: Satelite systems




On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Bayard Coolidge USG wrote:


 Benjamin Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

   Geosynchronous orbit is roughly 22,000 miles straight up.

  Your request has to go 22,000 miles into space, turn around
  and go 22,000 miles...

 Actually, it's more like 22,400 miles straight up from the _equator_.
 The slant range from our neck of the woods (i.e. 42-43 degrees or so
 north latitude) is going to be significantly greater than that! I'll
 leave the exact calculations to someone else, but the point is that
 it's actually going to be a lot worse than Ben's already gloomy news.
 (OK, granted DirecTV/DirecPC's uplinks might be in south Florida or
 Colorado or wherever, but those latitudes, and ours, still have to
 be factored in... In any case, it's not a pretty picture...)

Starband has their uplink in Georgia. The results of 60 seconds of 80 byte
ping packets without BST to the nearest pingable router are:

round-trip min/avg/max = 660.2/1054.0/2046.2 ms

 I prefer a non-RF approach, generally speaking. One, I'm a ham and the
 noise floor on our microwave bands is going to get worse as time goes
 on, and second, it means that fewer people can listen in on my packets :-)

Hey Bayard, you mean that you don't like the NSA filter being integral on
your ISP feed? ;-)

- Marc


 Bayard

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Re: Satelite systems

2002-02-18 Thread Bayard Coolidge USG



Paul Lussier said:

 how to get Verizon or ATT to get off their collective behinds

Frankly, I think getting Verizon to do anything will be extremely
difficult. They are losing billions of dollars per year, according
to their public statements, and my SWAG is they're not going to be
interested in investing in expensive technologies for a limited market.
(I know where Paul lives, and his town's not much bigger than mine,
and the issues are similar). My opinion is that the reason they are
losing billions on paper is that they overbid on the last round of
wireless telephone spectra and have a bit of a supply-and-demand issue
there to be resolved. They aren't interested in ugrading last-mile
infrastructure if they aren't pressured hard to do so.

ATT, on the other hand, is under a lot of public scrutiny because of
all of the cable systems they now own, the high demand for broadband
services at the retail (i.e., Harry Homeowner) level, and pressure
from local regulatory agencies - i.e., State PUCs *AND* town
governments. Cable TV franchises are generally (at least here in New
England) awarded on a _municipal_ level. So, if there are a lot of
technically-knowledgeable residents in a given town who want broadband
and can't seem to get it, putting pressure on the Board of Selectmen,
City Council, etc., does get results. It took a few years, but I raised
hell with my town government because the previous cable company (long
since bought out) didn't want to cable my road because it was too far
out in the boonies, even though I was about the only house among the
40-50 on the road who could get a signal off the air!

If your town's cable plant is still aluminum-jacketed coax instead of
the newer stuff, perhaps you need to start asking a lot of questions
as to _when_, not _if_, they will be upgrading to broadband!

Bayard

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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
 Starband has their uplink in Georgia. The results of 60 seconds of 80 byte
 ping packets without BST to the nearest pingable router are:
 
   round-trip min/avg/max = 660.2/1054.0/2046.2 ms

  For satellite, I believe the nearest pingable router is in orbit, so that
does not include the trip back to Earth, or the return journey.  (I could be
wrong on this.)

  Can you provide more information on BST?  Or links to same?  Since we do
have a client stuck with it, I am interested.  All I could discover about
their proprietary software was that it was very proprietary.  :-/

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Satelite systems


With satellite, you are going to be stuck with the latency. Some of the 
sattelite systems have a dialup component, and others, like Starband are 
two-way. 
A friend of mine in Nebraska found an ISP that provides wireless. 
Does ATT give any estimates as to when Cable Internet will be available. 

Another possibility is ISDN(a bit better than dialup). Verizon has been 
very slow to set up tarrifs that make this cost effective. 

Marc's recommendation to set up a community to share a high speed 
connection via wireless might be workable. Essentially, this is how cable 
TV got started. 

On 18 Feb 2002 at 15:56, Paul Lussier wrote:

 
 In a message dated: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:53:18 EST
 Benjamin Scott said:
 
   We don't normally think of TCP as an interactive application.  Believe me,
 when you've got latency like that, it is.  Web browsing is agonizing.  
 Forget anything like Telnet, SSH, IRC, VoIP, etc.
 
   Also, the service is very heavily centered around MS-Windows, and they do
 some goofy things with routing (like hand out default routes which are
 unreachable without manual routing table updates).
 
 So what I'm hearing is, stay with dial-up :(
 
 Okay, next question then, anyone have any ideas on how to get Verizon 
 or ATT to get off their collective behinds and get either DSL or 
 cable-modem access into a town?  I currently can not get either 
 service (local CO is *not* equipped for DSL by *anyone* and ATT is 
 not offering cable modem access in my town, which is a former 
 cablevision town!).
 
 
 Seeya,
 Paul (who is starving for high-speed internet access)
 
 
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Portfolio Partner Engineering   
508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/

Compaq Computer Corp.
200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1
Marlboro, Ma. 01752


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Re: Satelite systems




On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Benjamin Scott wrote:

   How far are you from your CO (or DLC/SLIC box)?  If you are over 18,000
 feet or so, DSL is out-of-the-question, regardless.

True for Verizon ADSL. There are however manufacturers of xDSL equipment
that is working to 26000 feet today, that other providers may be willing
and able to utilize. The DLC/SLC issue is a far bigger problem, because
from a cost of deployment prespective for the provider, the more of these
devices that they need to work through, the lower their rate of investment
return, in many cases. That is changing though.

- Marc


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Re: Satelite systems



On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Benjamin Scott wrote:

 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
  This isn't an answer to make things happen quickly, but a well written
  complaint to the NH Public Utility Commision ...

   Hah!  Through sad, hard personal experience, I know that the NH PUC
 doesn't give two turds in a box about individual subscribers.

I too have been parts of battles through the NH PUC over several years
now. While I agree that _individuals_ are not often heard, the system does
pay good attension to larger groups. It doesn't happen quickly, and the
end result is usually not what any one of the parties desired. Getting the
Office of Consumer Advocate working with your group can be a big win.
Remember, this is a political arena, and you need to play it as such...

- Marc


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Re: Satelite systems




On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Benjamin Scott wrote:

 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
  Starband has their uplink in Georgia. The results of 60 seconds of 80 byte
  ping packets without BST to the nearest pingable router are:
 
  round-trip min/avg/max = 660.2/1054.0/2046.2 ms

   For satellite, I believe the nearest pingable router is in orbit, so that
 does not include the trip back to Earth, or the return journey.  (I could be
 wrong on this.)

In the case of starband, the (minimal) routing that can be done in the sky
is highly filtered. In fact, it is more like layer-2 switching. My
experiment actually is believed to be hitting the third router that the
packet passes through, based on TTL. All others closer are highly
filtered.

   Can you provide more information on BST?  Or links to same?  Since we do
 have a client stuck with it, I am interested.  All I could discover about
 their proprietary software was that it was very proprietary.  :-/

There is a draft RFC for the protocol. The Win32 version is known to run
to some semi-useful degree under WINE. Looking through the starband news
groups on dejanews can be somewhat useful.

As for your customer, a quick and dirty solution would be to setup their
gateway as a SOCKS proxy that sends everything through a UDP connection to
a proxy-like server that you place at a colo space. Avoid TCP. For bonus
points, use forward error correction, payload compression, and IP header
compression. Essentially, anything to make the data stream instead of
chat, and reduce payload size and retransmits.

- Marc

 --
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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
   How far are you from your CO (or DLC/SLIC box)?  If you are over 18,000
 feet or so, DSL is out-of-the-question, regardless.
 
 The DLC/SLC issue is a far bigger problem ...

  It can also be an advantage.  I live something like 9 miles (almost 50,000
feet) from the CO.  However, my lines come out of a SLIC hut less than 6,000
feet from my house.  When Vitts Networks was still in business, they used
something they called IDSL.  It was apparently an ISDN line hacked into
working like DSL.  It was limited to 144 kilobits/sec, but it was much
cheaper than standard ISDN, and it did not require any special equipment at
the SLIC station (other than a standard ISDN card).

-- 
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Satelite systems

2002-02-18 Thread Rich Payne


 Another possibility is ISDN(a bit better than dialup). Verizon has been 
 very slow to set up tarrifs that make this cost effective. 

ISDN isn't bad, it's not DSL or cable level bandwidth, but it is a hell of 
a lot better than analog phone lines. The trick is of course to use Data 
over Voice to your ISP using a local number, otherwise 24x7 access costs 
around $1600 a month in ISDN charges!

--rdp

-- 
Rich Payne
http://talisman.mv.com


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Re: Satelite systems




On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Benjamin Scott wrote:

 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
How far are you from your CO (or DLC/SLIC box)?  If you are over 18,000
  feet or so, DSL is out-of-the-question, regardless.
 
  The DLC/SLC issue is a far bigger problem ...

   It can also be an advantage.  I live something like 9 miles (almost 50,000
 feet) from the CO.  However, my lines come out of a SLIC hut less than 6,000
 feet from my house.  When Vitts Networks was still in business, they used
 something they called IDSL.  It was apparently an ISDN line hacked into
 working like DSL.  It was limited to 144 kilobits/sec, but it was much
 cheaper than standard ISDN, and it did not require any special equipment at
 the SLIC station (other than a standard ISDN card).

Correct. The 2 B channels (64k each) and the D channel (16k) are passed
through the SLC just like they would be for ISDN, but on the ends the
equipment doesn't require any ISDN signaling. Some companies will offer
PPP through this, which with compression (both VJ and payload) can result
in a very nice line configuration.

- Marc


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Re: Satelite systems


That is a service sometimes referred to as IDSL. Several DSL providers 
offered this to clients who were outside of the standard DSL areas. 

IMHO, DSL is an interim strategy. It is a way for the phone companies to 
utilize existing copper technology. Verizon (nee Bell Titanic, nee Nynex, 
nee New England Telephone) tariffed ISDN to the point where it was out of 
the reach of local subscribers until it was too late. These companies (the 
not so baby bells) are very large, top heavy, businesses with a long 
history of being the phone monopoly. Currently the cable TV guys can supply 
analog and digital TV, digital phone service, and Internet both to homes 
and to businesses. Verizon also has serious problems because they must also 
provide switching services. 

On 18 Feb 2002 at 16:36, Benjamin Scott wrote:

 On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
How far are you from your CO (or DLC/SLIC box)?  If you are over 18,000
  feet or so, DSL is out-of-the-question, regardless.
  
  The DLC/SLC issue is a far bigger problem ...
 
   It can also be an advantage.  I live something like 9 miles (almost 50,000
 feet) from the CO.  However, my lines come out of a SLIC hut less than 6,000
 feet from my house.  When Vitts Networks was still in business, they used
 something they called IDSL.  It was apparently an ISDN line hacked into
 working like DSL.  It was limited to 144 kilobits/sec, but it was much
 cheaper than standard ISDN, and it did not require any special equipment at
 the SLIC station (other than a standard ISDN card).
 
 -- 
 Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 | The opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not |
 | necessarily represent the views or policy of any other person, entity or  |
 | organization.  All information is provided without warranty of any kind.  |
 
 
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508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/

Compaq Computer Corp.
200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1
Marlboro, Ma. 01752


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Re: Satelite systems

2002-02-18 Thread Michael Costolo


Um, am I reading this right?  When I move out of Nashua I'm stuck with dialup 
again?  I've already got ATT Broadband Internet.  I'm not thrilled with it, 
but it works...

-Mike-

On Monday 18 February 2002 09:15 pm, Jerry Feldman wrote:
snip
 Does ATT give any estimates as to when Cable Internet will be available.

_
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On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Marc Evans wrote:
There is a draft RFC for the protocol. The Win32 version is known to run
to some semi-useful degree under WINE. Looking through the starband news
groups on dejanews can be somewhat useful.

Indeed. For those too lazy to look, here is some information:

BST = Boosted Session Transport. It appears to be a inline TCP proxy
designed to optimize TCP sessions for high-latency, unreliable links (like
satellite and some wireless). Despite the RFC draft, it appears to be a
proprietary, patented protocol owned by a company named FlashNetworks, and
sold under the name of NettGain.

http://www.flash-networks.com/Product.asp?table=Providers
http://www.globecom.net/ietf/draft/draft-azmak-bst-00.html

StarBand used to offer a model 180 satellite modem which did something
kinda-sorta like BST, but in the modem itself. They have replaced the 180
with a model 360 (which our customers have), and moved all that into
software running on Windows (NettGain). Some discussion here:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=BST+group:alt.satellite.starband+group:alt.satellite.starbandhl=enselm=cq5g7.5214%24Qh2.1319535%40typhoon.san.rr.comrnum=5

Of note, FlashNetworks does have a Linux NettGain client. However,
apparently StarBand and Microsoft are in bed together, and thus StarBand has
not purchased a license for the Linux client.

But even if BST was an open standard and readily available for Linux, I
suspect the latency problem would still make itself felt for many
applications, especially anything like SSH (which, of course, I use
extensively at home).

--
Ben Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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| organization. All information is provided without warranty of any kind. |

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Re: Satelite systems


True. Ziplink, the ISP in Lowell, at one time had a very extensive set of 
web pages on ISDN and how to order it. 
ISDN (for consumer use) is broken up into 3 channels:
2 are 64K and the third is for control. You can bind the 2 64K channels 
into one for an effective 128K. DOVB, I think, is limited to 56K, but it is 
a digital bidirectional 56K where you analog 56K is never going to be above 
50 (on a dialup), and it's assymetrical.  
Before you order ISDN, check with the ISP on their recommendations. 
When ordering ISDN, the phone company used to be clueless. 

On 18 Feb 2002 at 16:43, Rich Payne wrote:

  Another possibility is ISDN(a bit better than dialup). Verizon has been 
  very slow to set up tarrifs that make this cost effective. 
 
 ISDN isn't bad, it's not DSL or cable level bandwidth, but it is a hell of 
 a lot better than analog phone lines. The trick is of course to use Data 
 over Voice to your ISP using a local number, otherwise 24x7 access costs 
 around $1600 a month in ISDN charges!
 
 --rdp
 
 -- 
 Rich Payne
 http://talisman.mv.com
 

--
Jerry Feldman
Portfolio Partner Engineering   
508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/

Compaq Computer Corp.
200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1
Marlboro, Ma. 01752


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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Jerry Feldman wrote:
 Currently the cable TV guys can supply analog and digital TV, digital
 phone service, and Internet both to homes and to businesses.

  Yah, and then instead of The Phone Company, we will have The Broadband
Company.  Except many of those companies also have media production and
distribution interests -- the same ones who are behind the DMCA, the DVD CCA
CSS lawsuits, and the SSSCA.

  Out of the toilet, into the sewer...

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Re: Satelite systems


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Jerry Feldman wrote:
 When ordering ISDN, the phone company used to be clueless. 

  Still is.

  Definitely contact the potential ISDN ISP, since requirements vary
depending on the exact configuration.

-- 
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Re: Satelite systems

2002-02-18 Thread Rich Payne


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Jerry Feldman wrote:

 True. Ziplink, the ISP in Lowell, at one time had a very extensive set of 
 web pages on ISDN and how to order it. 
 ISDN (for consumer use) is broken up into 3 channels:
 2 are 64K and the third is for control. You can bind the 2 64K channels 
 into one for an effective 128K. DOVB, I think, is limited to 56K, but it is 
 a digital bidirectional 56K where you analog 56K is never going to be above 
 50 (on a dialup), and it's assymetrical.  

and most ISDN devices support bonding those two together for 112K, which 
isn't bad.

 Before you order ISDN, check with the ISP on their recommendations. 
 When ordering ISDN, the phone company used to be clueless. 

Yeah, they're still pretty bad. FWIW I actually have VISDN (Virtual ISDN) 
as the switch in Jaffrey can't handle ISDN, so my local calling area for 
the ISDN numbers is Keene. A little funky at times but works fairly well 
none the less.

It's gone out a couple of times...but usually fixed fairly quickly. The 
big problem is if it fails on the weekends, when the ISDN people don't
work!

--rdp

 On 18 Feb 2002 at 16:43, Rich Payne wrote:
 
   Another possibility is ISDN(a bit better than dialup). Verizon has been 
   very slow to set up tarrifs that make this cost effective. 
  
  ISDN isn't bad, it's not DSL or cable level bandwidth, but it is a hell of 
  a lot better than analog phone lines. The trick is of course to use Data 
  over Voice to your ISP using a local number, otherwise 24x7 access costs 
  around $1600 a month in ISDN charges!
  
  --rdp
  
  -- 
  Rich Payne
  http://talisman.mv.com
  
 
 --
 Jerry Feldman
 Portfolio Partner Engineering   
 508-467-4315 http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/linux/
 
 Compaq Computer Corp.
 200 Forest Street MRO1-3/F1
 Marlboro, Ma. 01752
 
 
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-- 
Rich Payne
http://talisman.mv.com


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Re: Satelite systems