Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Mark Snyder wrote: snip It's one thing to assume that state employee wages won't rise, but that only represents about 10% of the budget. It's quite another to assume that the costs of the various other goods and services that are purchased by the State of Minnesota will remain flat for the entire 2004-2005 biennium. If including inflation would only increase the shortfall to $400M, we'd probably be OK since the reserves are set at around $600M. However, from what I can recall, those who live in the real world have estimated that including inflation could increase the shortfall to as much as $1 billion (that would be based on an annual inflation rate of approximately 3.5% if I'm remembering how to do the math correctly). So yes, it's quite likely that there will be a further need to balance the state's checkbook and I'm sure it's also quite likely that Minneapolis will take on on the chin yet again. Mark Anderson here: I don't know the details of the state budget. But I do know that 3.5% inflation is too high for 2003 and 2004. The CPI has an increase of about 1% for this year, and the guess from most economists is for a similar increase next year (see today's (Sunday) Strib for a selection of MN economist's predictions). Maybe the Republican forecast is too low, but any forecast using 3.5% is too high. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid
Good news for Minneapolis, the recentState of Minnesotarevenueforecast shows only a deficit of$185,000,000 for 2004. Unless you believe the conservatives (heaven forbid)that the deficit could swell to $400,000,000 by February 2004. Minneapolis, being the slowest moving politicaltarget (years of experience)in the state, is in a prime position to have it's Ox gored to assist inresolvingthe deficit. Social spenders or property owners, be aware, the bill is in the mail.
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Even with the recent upbeat economic and budgetary forecasts, I too, fully expect that Minneapolis (and other municipalities) will take additional hits as a result of the upcoming legislative session; that means added pressure on local government budgets, including our schools, libraries and parks. Yes, Round Twowill soon beupon us. I'd like to think all responsible parties are planning accordingly, but I'm not that naive... we're in for more tough times. I also expect growing federal deficits and astronger economy will result inrising interest rates by mid-year-- raising the cost of housing and consumer credit in general for consumers; and the cost of borrowing for all governmental units. To my mind, neither the left nor the right can claim any high ground in this dilemma, given their respective propensities to tax and spend, and borrow and spend as they conduct the public's business. Enjoy the holidays and batten the hatches. Michael Hohmann Linden Hills -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of LEE EKLUNDSent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 10:46 AMTo: Issues ListSubject: [Mpls] Local Government Aid Good news for Minneapolis, the recentState of Minnesotarevenueforecast shows only a deficit of$185,000,000 for 2004. Unless you believe the conservatives (heaven forbid)that the deficit could swell to $400,000,000 by February 2004. Minneapolis, being the slowest moving politicaltarget (years of experience)in the state, is in a prime position to have it's Ox gored to assist inresolvingthe deficit. Social spenders or property owners, be aware, the bill is in the mail.
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Um, point of information: It has actually been the DFL caucus that has been complaining about the overly optimistic revenue forecast. Namely because Republican leaders pulled the nifty stunt of ignoring inflation when preparing the budget last session. It's one thing to assume that state employee wages won't rise, but that only represents about 10% of the budget. It's quite another to assume that the costs of the various other goods and services that are purchased by the State of Minnesota will remain flat for the entire 2004-2005 biennium. If including inflation would only increase the shortfall to $400M, we'd probably be OK since the reserves are set at around $600M. However, from what I can recall, those who live in the real world have estimated that including inflation could increase the shortfall to as much as $1 billion (that would be based on an annual inflation rate of approximately 3.5% if I'm remembering how to do the math correctly). So yes, it's quite likely that there will be a further need to balance the state's checkbook and I'm sure it's also quite likely that Minneapolis will take on on the chin yet again. Mark Snyder Windom Park On 12/10/03 10:46 AM, LEE EKLUND [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good news for Minneapolis, the recent State of Minnesota revenue forecast shows only a deficit of $185,000,000 for 2004. Unless you believe the conservatives (heaven forbid) that the deficit could swell to $400,000,000 by February 2004. Minneapolis, being the slowest moving political target (years of experience) in the state, is in a prime position to have it's Ox gored to assist in resolving the deficit. Social spenders or property owners, be aware, the bill is in the mail. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid
The conversations about the relative "wealth" of Minneapolis as measured by its value of real estate versus the total in the state and the number of people in Minneapolis as a proportion of the state's total population are interesting, but don't tell the whole story. When I worked or the City Council 10-15 years ago, the Government Affairs folks put together some wonderful statistics that pointed out the Minneapolis "overburden." That was defined as those services the City provided to other jurisdictions (such as the chain of lakes parks, the educational and cultural opportunities), but also cost the City huge amounts. Then there were the half way houses and group homes whose residents were not native Minneapolitans, but rather came to the facilities because there were none in their home communities. And then there were the sets of people who needed immense help - single parents, poor, homeless, immigrants - to make their way. The City's property taxes will simply be overwhelmed if there is no help from the state to deal with these very real situations. What every happened to: "From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs." The only fair approach is a progressive income tax at the state level apportioned out to meet needs where-ever they are. I'm sure there would be a great clamoring if Minneapolis started talking about keeping all the sales tax receipts generated in the City for itself and not sending them off to the state. Jan Del Calzo Lynnhurst
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
I think this discussion of LGA shows that there is a real need to revamp the formula, whether or not the program is cut. For suburban cities with net outflow in LGA, there needs to be a clear reason why the money is paid and how that is calculated. I also dont think Minneapolis residents are going to win over the hearts of legislators by quoting Karl Marx's dogma, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. John Rocker Calhoun
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid/Socialist creed funded capitalist need
In a message dated 2/13/03 6:00:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The City's property taxes will simply be overwhelmed if there is no help from the state to deal with these very real situations. What every happened to: From each according to his ability; to each according to his needs. Keith says; That canard went out of style with the dismantling of the Soviet Empire. That chant may still be heard in North Korea. A nearly onomatopoeic model of bliss; it's application never seems to work out for the have-not hopefuls. The Mpls. municipal outcome under the former spend wild regime seemed to benefit the needs of Non-Profiteering Developers and Target corpulent corporations; those the City Mothers found the most equal among equals. Most others could go to the shelter; or chip in to pay debt; according to their ability. Keith Reitman NearNorth TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
John Rocker adds: I also dont think Minneapolis residents are going to win over the hearts of legislators by quoting Karl Marx's dogma, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. No wonder some legislators shake their heads at the mention of Mpls. and it's 'needs.' There has long seemed to be much confusion over 'wants' and 'needs' in a societal context. Makes me think of all those clamoring for their 'rights' to this and that with no reference to/consideration of the ancillary 'responsibilities' that accompany said rights. Michael Hohmann Linden Hills TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Michael Hohmann wrote: John Rocker adds: I also dont think Minneapolis residents are going to win over the hearts of legislators by quoting Karl Marx's dogma, From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. WM: It's pretty tough to cozy up to a writer who can make a sentence go on for three pages, stick a verb at the end, and hope for comprehension from others. Give the devil his due, though. The sentiment, from each.../to each has the possibility of being a communal winner. If everyone is cared for, society can be more peaceful and productive. When it rubs up against a culture that enshrines the individual to a ridiculous extent, there are bound to be sparks. We could be entering a stage where, if we avoid blowing ourselves to kingdom come, we are able to entertain a synthesis. Minnesota, it seems to me, has always tried to push to discover that synthesis. No wonder some legislators shake their heads at the mention of Mpls. and it's 'needs.' There has long seemed to be much confusion over 'wants' and 'needs' in a societal context. Makes me think of all those clamoring for their 'rights' to this and that with no reference to/consideration of the ancillary 'responsibilities' that accompany said rights. WM: The ideal is always so much cleaner than the nitty gritty. I posit that every individual has equal rights to food, clothing, housing, health care, education, and work regardless of color, race, creed, sexual preferences, class, or gender. I further posit that it can be done by managing our resources better, human and otherwise. It could very well be that those who have taken no responsibility do not experience having any rights. Why contribute if you get nothing positive from the contribution? I have to tell you that I do not take kindly to those who self-righteously introduced House File 341 last week. I have had way too much experience of the consequences of not having civil rights and I make a positive contribution to this society. I'm 'queer as a set of purple teeth' as my father said, female, and disabled and I still need to earn a living, eat, clothe myself (a major chore in MN), live somewhere, etc. and, I should not have to do it by dumpster diving or living under a bridge. Nor should anyone else. By comparison to the rest of the world, we are a wealthy nation. We have no excuse for refusing to care for our own. WizardMarks, Central TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid
Don Jorovsky writes: .the services you receive, or the education a child receives, should not be based so heavily on the relative property wealth of the area in which you happen to live. Vicky Heller responds: Mr. Jorovsky has this backwards. Minneapolis is the RICHEST city in the state (20% of the taxable real estate, but only 11% of the population.) This is why Minneapolis should be sending money TO Little Falls, rather than begging Little Falls residents to subsidize Minneapolis. Democrats usually demand that the richest PAY, PAY, PAY. Now that their VISA card has been cut in half, all of a sudden the mantra has changed to GET, GET, GET. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside and North Oaks TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Vicky writes: Minneapolis is the RICHEST city in the state (20% of the taxable real estate, but only 11% of the population.) What is the source of this data? For example, the population figure is wrong. Minneapolis had 382,618 people in the 2000 Census (http://www.metrocouncil.org/Census/news_265.htm); Minnesota had 4,919,479 people in the same census (http://www.census.gov/census2000/states/mn.html). That means we have 7.8 percent of the state population, not 11 percent. I'd bet Vicky's taxable real estate figure is also wrong - at least until I see a source. David Brauer King Field TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
-Original Message- From: David Brauer Vicky writes: Minneapolis is the RICHEST city in the state (20% of the taxable real estate, but only 11% of the population.) What is the source of this data? For example, the population figure is wrong. Minneapolis had 382,618 people in the 2000 Census (http://www.metrocouncil.org/Census/news_265.htm); Minnesota had 4,919,479 people in the same census (http://www.census.gov/census2000/states/mn.html). That means we have 7.8 percent of the state population, not 11 percent. I'd bet Vicky's taxable real estate figure is also wrong - at least until I see a source. [TB] According to a MN House publication on fiscal disparities, Minneapolis and St. Paul combined had 25.9% of the -metro area- commerical/industrial tax base in 1998. The same cities had 224.8% of the population of the same area. http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/fiscaldis.pdf (page 4) The same report (page 24) says that if the program were eliminated, Minneapolis taxes would have increased by 1% for Residential Homestead and .6% of Commercial/Industrial property. Incidently Local Government Aids and Fiscal Disparities are separate programs. Terrell Brown Loring Park terrell at terrellbrown dot org TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid - the rich keep getting richer
David Brauer asks: What is the source of this data in response to my claim that Minneapolis is the richest City in Minnesota. Vicky Heller answers: The specific numbers I used came from Council Member Dean Zimmerman on one of the Minneapolis Property Rights TV shows shortly before the last election. As David correctly points out, Minneapolis is even RICHER NOW. Our proportionate population has declined to 7.8%, while the MARKET VALUE of our real estate has GROWN TO $22 BILLION! Keep in mind that Minneapolis is just 58.72 square miles. These numbers come from the 2001 City of Minneapolis published Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports. Vicky Heller Cedar-Riverside and North Oaks TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Vicky writes: As David correctly points out, Minneapolis is even RICHER NOW. This is not what I said. I noted that using Census figures, Minneapolis has a smaller share of the state's population than she claimed. I said nothing about richness, or lack thereof. As Terrell Brown pointed out, Minneapolis AND St. Paul have 25 percent of the METRO AREA'S commercial-industrial base...making it very unlikely that Minneapolis alone has 22 percent of the state's taxable wealth, as Vicky claimed. Our proportionate population has declined to 7.8%, while the MARKET VALUE of our real estate has GROWN TO $22 BILLION! This, as my friend Dave used to say, is a nothing-burger. Real estate generally increases in value no matter your population. Vicky's original point was that Minneapolis's taxable wealth is a far greater share of state totals than our slice of the population (she claimed double). She has not proven that point with accurate statistics yet, as others such as Terrell have demonstrated. And even if we DO have a higher share of the taxable wealth than people (which I'm not conceding) that doesn't measure need - the number of poor, older infrastructure, regional amenities than non-residents use but don't pay for - that are a key, legitimate factor behind Local Government Aid. David Brauer King Field TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Apparently I can't type today. Minneapolis and St. Paul have 24.8% of the metro area population, not the 200-plus number that I wrote earlier. Terrell Brown (still in Loring Park ... I got that right) -Original Message- From: Brown, Terrell -Original Message- From: David Brauer Vicky writes: Minneapolis is the RICHEST city in the state (20% of the taxable real estate, but only 11% of the population.) What is the source of this data? For example, the population figure is wrong. Minneapolis had 382,618 people in the 2000 Census (http://www.metrocouncil.org/Census/news_265.htm); Minnesota had 4,919,479 people in the same census (http://www.census.gov/census2000/states/mn.html). That means we have 7.8 percent of the state population, not 11 percent. I'd bet Vicky's taxable real estate figure is also wrong - at least until I see a source. [TB] According to a MN House publication on fiscal disparities, Minneapolis and St. Paul combined had 25.9% of the -metro area- commerical/industrial tax base in 1998. The same cities had 224.8% of the population of the same area. http://www.house.leg.state.mn.us/hrd/pubs/fiscaldis.pdf (page 4) The same report (page 24) says that if the program were eliminated, Minneapolis taxes would have increased by 1% for Residential Homestead and .6% of Commercial/Industrial property. Incidently Local Government Aids and Fiscal Disparities are separate programs. Terrell Brown Loring Park terrell at terrellbrown dot org TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
David Brauer wrote: And even if we DO have a higher share of the taxable wealth than people (which I'm not conceding) that doesn't measure need - the number of poor, older infrastructure, regional amenities than non-residents use but don't pay for - that are a key, legitimate factor behind Local Government Aid. WM: I think that the inability to grow out (as opposed to into the sky or into the ground) is also a factor. No new land to develop means cleaning brown fields and taking down old stuff for supplanting with new is much more spendy than buying up farm land. At one point Minneapolis even paid for extending the water mains into suburban areas. I don't know if that's still true or not. WizardMarks, Central TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid/Mo' Money Mo' spending/less flame
I regret the use of harsh language I employed in my post. Keith Reitman NearNorth In a message dated 2/11/03 4:13:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Received a complaint about this: Don, you make the partisan political pandering, and Dynafying, Personal attack, and inflammatory. It's fine to criticize DFL behavior, let's just make the rhetoric conform to list rules. Thanks, David TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Hello Andy: It is an even larger percentage of the St. Paul and Duluth budgets. I believe 16% for St. Paul and 19% for Duluth, 12% Minneapolis. Ken Bradley Corcoran Neighborhood --- Don Jorovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Andy writes: Thank yourselves for electing Pat Awada over Carol Johnson. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul Don adds: Actually, Minneapolis voters voted by a wide margin for Carol Johnson over Pat Awada -- 85,249 to 32,450. That's a margin of 72 to 28, although both of the percentages would be a little lower if we factored in candidates who came in third and fourth. But the larger issue here is still relevant -- electing Republicans is bad for Minneapolis. Pawlenty and Awada come from Eagan, where they don't get as much LGA as Minneapolis, so they're happy to cut it by 42%. This would have a disproportionate impact on Minneapolis. In the past, some Republicans have argued on the list that the solution is to elect MORE Republicans from Minneapolis. I don't buy it. It's like begging for crumbs. The solution is to work harder to elect more Democrats everywhere, who would in turn have more ability to fend off these unfortunate proposals. Don Jorovsky New BrightonGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid
A couple of things struck me about Pat Awada's report. First was her conclusion that the more money given to local governments the more they spend which I file under Duh!. I think she was trying to say that the spending is the result of the giving as opposed to need. This may be, but is not neccessarily, the case. The spending can just as easily be based on need and thus the larger amounts given are related to need and, logically, get spent. That's the smaller point, however. The larger issue is a question of philosophy. Pat Awada feels that libraries and parks are non-essential. I do not. These are quality of life issues for communities. Once we've agreed that such things are needed to bolster our communities there comes the question of who's responsible for supporting them. If we want government involvement the question becomes how to pay for them. The LGA program was part of the Minnesota Miracle which moved such costs away from local governments who rely on regressive property taxes to the state which relies on a (theoretically) progressive income tax as well as a regressive sales tax and other revenue. The Republicans have decided to move the burden of non-essential services back to local governments, and thus back onto regressive property taxes. The other result, intentional or not, is to punish the inner cities. Jim McGuire Como _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
One has only to park at a convenient vantage point along I35, or I94 during rush-hour and watch the direction the traffic flows (in the morning and the evening) to determine whether or not the state auditors' assesment is "on target". Mnneapolis (and St Paul), provide the lifeblood for majority ofsuburbanites. To assume that an across the board (in LGA) cut affects the suburbs and urban areas equally is absurd. Dennis Plante Jordan From: "Jim MCGUIRE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Mpls] Local Government Aid Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 10:58:25 -0600 A couple of things struck me about Pat Awada's report. First was her conclusion that "the more money given to local governments the more they spend" which I file under "Duh!". I think she was trying to say that the spending is the result of the giving as opposed to need. This may be, but is not neccessarily, the case. The spending can just as easily be based on need and thus the larger amounts given are related to need and, logically, get spent. That's the smaller point, however. The larger issue is a question of philosophy. Pat Awada feels that libraries and parks are "non-essential". I do not. These are quality of life issues for communities. Once we've agreed that such things are needed to bolster our communities there comes the question of who's responsible for supporting them. If we want government involvement the question becomes how to pay for them. The LGA program was part of the "Minnesota Miracle" which moved such costs away from local governments who rely on regressive property taxes to the state which relies on a (theoretically) progressive income tax as well as a regressive sales tax and other revenue. The Republicans have decided to move the burden of "non-essential" services back to local governments, and thus back onto regressive property taxes. The other result, intentional or not, is to punish the inner cities. Jim McGuire Como _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Dennis Plante, Jim McGuire and Terrell Brown have all made some excellent points today about Local Government Aid. (see snips below). Minneapolis is not an island.People come into the city all the time for a variety of reasons. They use city parks that are paid for bycity property taxes. They come downtown to work or for events and are afforded police and fire protection paid for by city property taxes. It's reasonable to havenonresidentsshare in the cost of city services. LGA is one way to do that; Terrell also mentioned user fees. Jim reminds us of the "Minnesota Miracle." Remember when that was the envy of the country? This new regime seems to be intent on dismantling something that made Minnesota a state to be admired nationally. Jim mentions the regressivity of property taxes compared to income taxes, and that is a major component of the miracle, but the other one is that the services you receive, or the education a child receives, should not be based so heavily on the relative property wealth of the area in which you happen to live. We're all in this together... something this Eagan crowd doesn'tunderstand (yet). Don Jorovsky New Brighton One has only to park at a convenient vantage point along I35, or I94 during rush-hour and watch the direction the traffic flows (in the morning and the evening) to determine whether or not the state auditors' assesment is "on target". Minneapolis (and St Paul), provide the lifeblood for majority ofsuburbanites. To assume that an across the board (in LGA) cut affects the suburbs and urban areas equally is absurd. Dennis Plante JordanIf we want government involvement the question becomes how to pay for them. The LGA program was part of the "Minnesota Miracle" which moved such costs away from local governments who rely on regressive property taxes to the state which relies on a (theoretically) progressive income tax as well as a regressive sales tax and other revenue.The Republicans have decided to move the burden of "non-essential" services back to local governments, and thus back onto regressive property taxes.The other result, intentional or not, is to punish the inner cities. Jim McGuire Como Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid
Is the fiscal disparities act still in effect? If so, is Minneapolis losing or gaining under the law? Shawne FitzGerald Powderhorn TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid - State Auditor's report
The first footnote on the first page says The OSA grouped three current city services: general government, public safety, and streets and highways together to form essential current services. All other current services are called non-essential current services for the purposes of this study. I'm willing to give up some streets and highways for parks and libraries. Last I checked we have a tremendous number of non-local people using our streets and highways, parks and libraries and a lot fewer people going to other municipalities to use their streets and highways, parks and libraries. Report: http://www.osa.state.mn.us/reports/gid/2003/lga_study/lga_030210_report.pdf According to the report Minneapolis spends on a per capita basis: General Government: $147.04 Public Safety: $395.73 Streets and Highways $124.72 Total essential services: $667.49 Non-essential: $342.72 Total Spending: $1,010.21 Received 2002 LGA of $291.72 and levied property taxes of $318.77. It's interesting (and maybe just interesting) that on a per capita basis, St. Paul is within 10% of Minneapolis in all of the spending categories on a per capita basis except streets and highways where they spend only 60% of what we do on a per capita basis. For some reason their per capita tax is half of Minneapolis ($319 vs $160). The report (p. 17) says this about Mpls and St. Paul; As very large cities, Minneapolis and St. Paul face much greater levels of need and complexity in delivering public services. Need is high due to several factors, including an older infrastructure, higher crime rates, heavy use of streets and highways (by industry, by residents, and by commuters), more rental property, and large numbers of low income residents, some attracted to the central cities by the availability of public services. Then says: The central cities also have the highest per capita spending on non-essential services at $340 per capita. This is almost double of the state average. It underlines the sentence about almost double I ask: How much of that is for services (i.e. parks and libraries) for people who don't live here? This report reads more like research done to prove a point than research designed to get to the answer of a question. There is certainly a philosophical reason why many would support each unit of government levying the taxes to pay its own way, it makes it clear to the voters how much that level of government costs. If you do that, it seems reasonable that a given municipality might want to decide to provide services only to those who pay the taxes and charge user fees to all others. Maybe what this report does is provide another reason for why we should have regional government. Terrell Brown Minneapolis (Loring Park) terrell at terrellbrown dot org __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Local Government Aid
Andy writes: Thank yourselves for electing Pat Awada over Carol Johnson.Andy DriscollSaint Paul Don adds: Actually, Minneapolis voters voted by a wide margin for Carol Johnson over Pat Awada -- 85,249 to 32,450. That's a margin of 72 to 28, although both of the percentages would be a littlelower if we factored in candidates who came in third and fourth. But the larger issue here is still relevant -- electing Republicans is bad for Minneapolis. Pawlenty and Awada come from Eagan, where they don't get as much LGA as Minneapolis, so they're happy to cut it by 42%. This would have a disproportionate impact on Minneapolis. In the past, some Republicans have argued on the list that the solution is to elect MORE Republicans from Minneapolis. I don't buy it. It's like begging for crumbs. The solution is to work harder to elect more Democrats everywhere, who would in turn have more ability to fend off these unfortunate proposals. Don Jorovsky New Brighton Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [Mpls] Local Government Aid/Mo' Money Mo' spending Mo' DFL
In a message dated 2/10/03 5:34:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andy writes: Thank yourselves for electing Pat Awada over Carol Johnson. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul Don adds: Actually, Minneapolis voters voted by a wide margin for Carol Johnson over Pat Awada -- 85,249 to 32,450. That's a margin of 72 to 28, although both of the percentages would be a little lower if we factored in candidates who came in third and fourth. But the larger issue here is still relevant -- electing Republicans is bad for Minneapolis. Pawlenty and Awada come from Eagan, where they don't get as much LGA as Minneapolis, so they're happy to cut it by 42%. This would have a disproportionate impact on Minneapolis. In the past, some Republicans have argued on the list that the solution is to elect MORE Republicans from Minneapolis. I don't buy it. It's like begging for crumbs. The solution is to work harder to elect more Democrats everywhere, who would in turn have more ability to fend off these unfortunate proposals. Don Jorovsky New Brighton Keith says; Yes Andy, yes Don, cuts must be made to mitigate a projected multibillion dollar shortfall. Don, you make the partisan political pandering, and Dynafying, so I ask you. What did the ruling DFL in Mpls. up through the last administration, model, instead of holding municipal spending and debt within reason? What conservation principles did they maintain toward our, formerly existing, affordable housing? Do you really think the past DFL Regime 'stood up' for poor families and needy children? Observations made during my tenure in the hood during the ethnic and economic cleansing, 1981 through 2001, refute that premise. I am not a Republican. As the old Soviet joke goes. Commissar, let me see the eye and ear specialist. Why comrade peasant? Well, commissar, my ears hear one thing but my eyes see another! Why do you think we can afford more of the same, but in a grander orbit? Keith Reitman NearNorth TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Send all posts in plain-text format. 2. Cut as much of the post you're responding to as possible. Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
