RE: My own DOF confusion
Saddam Husein was not a Marxist. I have actually read Carl Marx books. Most people who seem to have an opinion about marxism have not. What Marx did was analyses of the capitalistic economy. Not much else. He and Friedrich Engels adviced the working man to unite - to form unions to protect their interest agiainst the factory owners, the government, banks etc in the Communist Manifest 1848. What he said then, is today a very natural thing in most democracies. Sertainly not in Iraq. (I am a member of a union for architects - all the people I work with are union members too). Stalin was a fascist dictator (a military general, who lead the Soviet Army for Lenin, during the Russian revolution against the Zahr-regime - not much different from the late regime of Saddam Hussein). Stalin was NEVER a socialist. Sertainly not a democratic leader either. In fact he did anything he could to kill off all believers of the socialistic ideas, inside the USSR. Stalin simply took a socialist facade to gain and preserve power. As did many other fascist dictators, Adolf Hitler included. Jens Bladt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://hjem.get2net.dk/bladt -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sendt: 23. marts 2004 14:28 Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Emne: Re: Re: My own DOF confusion Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin. Interisting view. In our part of the world Hitler is put on the extreme right, even though he used the term socialist in the name of his national socialist party. He was never a Marxist, he even killed a lot of marxists, and for your information: there are lots of differenses between socialists and marxists. Stalin is more difficult, you may say that Stalin misused an ideology to make a totalitarian system, but there are people on this list who knows a lot more about that. To me is seems that you have the rather simplistic solution to put anything you dont like on the other side of the scale, but this is too OT for this list. So I stop here. DagT
Re: Gandhi; WAS Re: My own DOF confusion
LOL. One of the best thread titles I've seen. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 24/3/04, WILLIAM MAHATMA ROBB discumbobulated: http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb Why Bill, you little libertarian you. Move over. I just took the quiz, and I'm right next to you, Ghandi, and Mandela ! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion
And then some, truth be known! g My wife won't let me fly Virgin Airlines anymore! keith mapson wrote: At 09:26 AM 25/03/2004, you wrote: Forced? What are they gonna do? How do they know? Compare a national database against the phone book, the tax rolls, employment records? What? Does the voting booth stamp or punch a hole in a card, and you turn that into your employer? 'Splain, please. This may answer a few of your questions ;-) http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8826718%255E13762,00.html (*)o(*) Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion
Keith, Does your wife know that you're apt to follow such a saucy link? And what about the Afghan soldier and the donkey? Sick, eh. Better go now, my wife just entered the room so I'll have to bring The Methodist Weekly Times Online to the front window };-) regards, Anthony Farr - Original Message - From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] And then some, truth be known! g My wife won't let me fly Virgin Airlines anymore! keith
Re: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion
At 10:54 PM 25/03/2004, you wrote: And then some, truth be known! g My wife won't let me fly Virgin Airlines anymore! keith For any subsequent flights after the first one, are they still virgin airlines? (they managed to survive a bit longer than Compass, so they are doing something right or have more $$$ to lose) (*)o(*) Robert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: My own DOF confusion
Hard to believe that I'm in Ghandi's northeastern suburbs... Not far from center, but the vector is exactly southwest. Minus 2 in each direction. One problem with a poll like that, there is not any room for it depends answers. Some of them cannot be either agree or disagree. Several of them, in fact... It would be interesting to see what placement I'd have had, had the poll permitted neutral answers. keith whaley Chris Brogden wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, William Robb wrote: http://politicalcompass.org/ Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb I'm even more left and libertarian than Ghandi, apparently. chris
Re: My own DOF confusion
what's really scary is how many of us are so close together Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:31 AM Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion On 24/3/04, WILLIAM MAHATMA ROBB discumbobulated: http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb Why Bill, you little libertarian you. Move over. I just took the quiz, and I'm right next to you, Ghandi, and Mandela ! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 25/3/04, WHICH-WAY KEITH discumbobulated: One problem with a poll like that, there is not any room for it depends answers. Some of them cannot be either agree or disagree. Several of them, in fact... Liberal! ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
In a message dated 3/25/2004 1:32:50 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 24/3/04, WILLIAM MAHATMA ROBB discumbobulated: http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb Why Bill, you little libertarian you. Move over. I just took the quiz, and I'm right next to you, Ghandi, and Mandela ! Cheers, Cotty Ditto. Hard to believe I am to the left of Ghandi, though. But an interesting test. And an interesting scale -- an interesting way to measure political stance. Marnie aka Doe But I think the test is slanted a bit. Or maybe more than a bit.
Re: Gandhi; WAS Re: My own DOF confusion
In a message dated 3/25/2004 10:42:44 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Strikes me as strange that so many folks are misspelling such a famous name. ERN Well, the first person spelled it wrong, and it went from there. Marnie aka Doe Sounds like a credible excuse to me, anyway. vbg I'll take it.
Re: My own DOF confusion
From: Tanya Mayer Photography [EMAIL PROTECTED] This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? Take your pick, Tanya: 1) Maybe you'll stay a happier person without knowing... 2) As long as you know the pilot is in the cockpit, who cares who's on the wings... 3) Just listen to Elvis': I'm Right, You're Left, She's Gone, hum along and don't worry... 4) Some say these are descriptions of how men are hung so to speak, since we seem to be born inclined to hang in a certain direction... 5) The commies are on the far left and the fascists are on the far right, and at one point they seem to meet and start killing people. Many, many people. Like hundred millions of people. 6) Originally just a description of where different parties were placed in the parliament after the French revolution(?), they are generally adopted terms to try to place a political party at a scale where roughly socialists (communists, social democrats, etc) are regarded as the left, and the non socialists, conservatives etc. are to the right. Some aussie member will be able to place the Australian parties for you on this scale. You can say that generally, at least in the Western world, or maybe Europe, there has been a tendency of orientation to the center by parties who earlier were more easily, separately defined (maybe as representatives for certain groups of society), while at the same time a certain polarisation has occured in that smaller parties have drifted to the extreme left or extreme right. The party structure will be very different from one country to another though, why left and right may be used on an individua level, indicating where this or that person or politician places him/herself within a party. (This is just a general outline on something that is continually under discussion and development. There are miles and miles of literature on these questions alone in the libraries). Lasse tia, tan. -Original Message- From: Bob Blakely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 6:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion I am a Christian right of center. I am continually accused of all manner of things that have nothing to do with me or anyone I know. It's as though someone made an elaborate caricature and assigned to it all sorts of ridiculous extremes. Then all that's necessary for amusement is the accusations. Not as much fun as tar and feathers, but it's legal. Regards, Bob... They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. - Anonymous, presumed dead. From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Tuesday, March 23, 2004, 11:14:35 PM, Bob wrote: I kinda like it! Here's my new sig line (stolen from Collin). You may whine and call me names as you are wont to do. It will be amusing! [...] Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. It's an enormous improvement over Collin's, Bob, if only because it's no longer a sad example of somebody so smugly self-absorbed that they quote their own juvenile thoughts. It's a pity the spelling's still somewhat awry. Here's an interesting recent interview with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who seems to meet all Collin's criteria for an America-hater: http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=503708 -- Cheers, Bob The fundamentalist Christian Right is America's Taliban. With the exception of the burqa (and even that, one feels, is missing only because St Paul forgot to mention it) all the ingredients are there: slavish adherence to a misunderstood old text; hatred of women, modernity, rival religions, science and pleasure; love of punishment, bullying, narrow-minded, bossy interference in every aspect of life. The Religious Right represents organized ignorance, organized bigotry, organized nastiness - and these people are on their way to taking over the Republican Party. Not least, the book persuaded me how muddled the fundamentalists are. They think they are patriots, yet they fight the letter of the Constitution and the spirit of the Founding Fathers every step of the way. The Religious Right is, in the deepest and truest sense of the word, un-American. -- from a book review by Richard Dawkins
Re: My own DOF confusion
Good, safe answer, Anders! Thanks for the history lesson. keith whaley Anders Hultman wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: My own DOF confusion
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:34:51 +0100 (MET), you wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt! A post worthy of saving. Thank, Anders.
Re: My own DOF confusion
In a message dated 3/24/2004 12:41:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? tia, tan. It's confusing, admittedly. Basically, there are those pro-change and those anti-change. Those on the right, conservatives, as the name implies, usually want to maintain the status quo. Those on the left, or liberals, who now call themselves progressives, usually want change. And when we talk about change we are usually talking about social change. But not always, it may also be changing laws about the environment or other things. A vast oversimplification, naturally. What changes and how quick, that is the matter of debate and the very core of American politics. We are a big country, a huge country, and within the parameters of left and right, progressive and conservative, is a whole range of opinions. One thing Americans do love is debating and arguing politics. The ones that pay any attention at all, that is, as tons of Americans do not vote and tons of Americans (some who vote and some who don't) don't pay much attention to politics at all. But of those of us who do pay some attention, among those, lot of us exercise our right to freedom of speech and get into flame wars as a result. It can be fun. Or it can be aggravating. A lot depends on one's attitude and one's maturity and one's realization that probably debating is no way to change someone else's already-made-up mind. Personally, I find more scary people on the right (Christian conservatives such Pat Robertson and his ilk), than I do on the left (pro-environmentalists/free traders such Ralph Nader and his ilk). But that is me. HTH, Marnie aka Doe (Just adding to the left/right confusion.)
Re: My own DOF confusion
someone once explained to me that its not linear anymore its bettter to visualize it like a 2d aka plane maby its 3d already but 10 years back they thought the axises are horizontally is the ideology and vertically the way to achive it:D Liberals | | | communism --socialism---|-nationalism faschism whatever.. | | | Conservatives coming from country that was occupied by soviet union for 50 years I'd really like to cut off the left part of the picture though i understand those labels were just cover for horror and terror. actually its not so important how we visualize it.. its hard to place ideologys to plane or room... better read more on different subjects... follow the links also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing viljar Anders Hultman wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: My own DOF confusion
hope its my mail reader only that messed up character spacing.. vr wrote:
Re: My own DOF confusion
Clearly written a person who has absolutely no understanding of the social conservative movement or the perjorative religious right/perjorative. Presumption about my perspectives aside, disagreement is worthy of discussion. Insult is not necessary. That's all I've ever asked for. Collin - Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:11:22 + From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip of petty insult, leaving the coherent point intact It's a pity the spelling's still somewhat awry. Here's an interesting recent interview with a Nobel Peace Prize winner who seems to meet all Collin's criteria for an America-hater: http://news.independent.co.uk/people/profiles/story.jsp?story=503708 -- Cheers, Bob The fundamentalist Christian Right is America's Taliban. With the exception of the burqa (and even that, one feels, is missing only because St Paul forgot to mention it) all the ingredients are there: slavish adherence to a misunderstood old text; hatred of women, modernity, rival religions, science and pleasure; love of punishment, bullying, narrow-minded, bossy interference in every aspect of life. The Religious Right represents organized ignorance, organized bigotry, organized nastiness - and these people are on their way to taking over the Republican Party. Not least, the book persuaded me how muddled the fundamentalists are. They think they are patriots, yet they fight the letter of the Constitution and the spirit of the Founding Fathers every step of the way. The Religious Right is, in the deepest and truest sense of the word, un-American. -- from a book review by Richard Dawkins -
Re: My own DOF confusion
William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mark Roberts Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Being British also, I'd like to apologise for Cotty's apology. Being Canadian, I'd like to apologize for the whole damned lot of you, and for the baggage retrieval system at Heathrow as well. They have a baggage retrieval system at Heathrow??? I had no idea! ;-) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: My own DOF confusion
P.S. It's a push-pull situation, re left/right and progressive/conservative. The dynamism of that seems to work, overall, in the US. I've lived long enough now to realize that it does swing back and forth and works overall. Change against anti-change. In the end, change usually wins, it just may take a while or be delayed. Such as the current debate re social change in the US re the legitimizing of gay marriage. It will happen eventually, but it may take some time with a lot of back lashings before it does. In a capsule, that issue is actually a very good current events example of how social change happens in America. Probably students in high school are studying it right now. Marnie aka Doe If anyone wants to argue about gay marriage specifically, please take it elsewhere. Like to a political forum. I was just using it as an example.
RE: My own DOF confusion
Excellent answer. The line between is more blurred than it was 80 years ago. We have a moderate liberalism/socialism in the US, maintained since the late 19th c. This encompasses a large segment of the population that sees the need to care for human need. But the Left and Right both still exist and are at odds. In US *policy* it's the difference between Ronald Regan's Federalism (W is simply not as refined in his thinking as the US really needs) versus the work to help the few remaining Communist systems to survive approach of the Clinton years. Collin p.s., Please don't flame me, anyone. If this is that personal to you, seek help immediately. :) And smile on the way. -- Original Message -- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:34:51 +0100 (MET) From: Anders Hultman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt! End of pentax-discuss-d Digest V04 Issue #674 * -- - You can impress people at a distance, but you can only impact them up close. -- Howard Hendricks --
Re: My own DOF confusion
http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California
Re: My own DOF confusion
In the old days... caution - greatly simplified... ...Left and right referred to where representatives sat (wing) in the French Parliament. In the US (and perhaps elsewhere) it came to mean (generally): Left - large government with greater power is necessary and desired to solve the nations problems and will not interfere with the liberty of the people. Right - Small government with minimal power is necessary and desired to maintain the liberty of the people and adequate to solve the nations problems. Most folks are really a mixture of the two, with views depending upon the issue. Often you will hear some folks being described as Centrists. A little of each perhaps. Folks are trying to reach a balance between security and liberty and where they sit (assuming they are really knowledgeable - whatever that means) will depend upon which of two noble goals they prize most. Speaking, just for me, liberty for mankind is the greatest prize. I don't find balance to be in the center of US politics. I see on side as weighted. Over the years, left and right became less a description of political philosophy and more a long list of policies whereby folks are judged by their stand on each political issue, and caricatures for leftists and rightists evolved. It all became quite confusing. When I say I am right of center, this is the scale I am referring to. Regards, Bob... They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. - Anonymous, presumed dead. From: Tanya Mayer Photography [EMAIL PROTECTED] This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? From: Bob Blakely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I am a Christian right of center. I am continually accused of all manner of things that have nothing to do with me or anyone I know. It's as though someone made an elaborate caricature and assigned to it all sorts of ridiculous extremes. Then all that's necessary for amusement is the accusations. Not as much fun as tar and feathers, but it's legal.
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 23/3/04, ANNE ROBINSON discumbobulated: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Anything in particular, or would you prefer to bank it for future use? :) Bank please miss. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 23/3/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] discumbobulated: I was just being agreeable, (you don't want me to start ranting, trust me). I suppose I should have put a smiley after my post but I expected it to understood, as I expect that Cotty did as well. Of course. Just humour her, she's Australian ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 23/3/04, CRB discumbobulated: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Will you apologize for Jaguars as well? Of course. Especially as they are now run by Ford (is it?) - an even bigger apology! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 23/3/04, A POST TOO FARR discumbobulated: Better believe it! William and I have had wars that may have spilt blood if we weren't on opposite sides of cyberspace, yet he subsequently has replied to or commented on posts of mine. Clearly, if he'd binned me he would not have seen my posts. People talk about kill-filing contributors who get under their skin, but how many actually do it, I wonder. Digest subscribers don't get a choice, although I will be on broadband end of June, so I can subscribe 'properly'. If I'd had that facility back when the Dobo was around, I would have used a kill file without doubt. Can't think of anyone else I would do that to. I popped in here towards the end of Mafud. I thought he was good fun actually. Never met The Who. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
On 24/3/04, WHEATFIELD discumbobulated: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Being British also, I'd like to apologise for Cotty's apology. Being Canadian, I'd like to apologize for the whole damned lot of you, and for the baggage retrieval system at Heathrow as well. WW Er, there is no baggage retrieval system at Heathrow. You were lucky. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
Excellent description Anders. The only thing is I think it is more of a circle with the left and right at less than 90 degrees and the Ultra left and Ultra right between 90 and 180 degrees. The thing the Ultras seem to have in common is a very strong believe in authoritism (to the point of, do what we say or we will kill you). -- Anders Hultman wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt! -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway.
Re: My own DOF confusion
A hearty second from here.. Otis Wright Keith Whaley wrote: Good, safe answer, Anders! Thanks for the history lesson. keith whaley Anders Hultman wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: My own DOF confusion
I used to sit on the fence, but now I'm not so sure. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
If you choose otherwise, we'll have to stop calling you a mug-wump. keith Cotty wrote: I used to sit on the fence, but now I'm not so sure. Cheers, Cotty
Re: My own DOF confusion
Well, it can not be too accurate as I keep wanting a neutral response. However, I would say the results do seem to reflect my views (2.5 left, 4 libertarian), but maybe they come across a little too stongly. I did notice that it is set up to show those as negative values. Well, I have been told I am a negative person (grin). Steve Larson wrote: http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway.
Re: My own DOF confusion
Hi, Wednesday, March 24, 2004, 8:24:15 AM, Bob wrote: I am a Christian right of center. I am continually accused of all manner of things that have nothing to do with me or anyone I know. It's as though someone made an elaborate caricature and assigned to it all sorts of ridiculous extremes. Then all that's necessary for amusement is the accusations. Not as much fun as tar and feathers, but it's legal. which rather neatly rounds everthing off by bringing us right back to Collin's absurd caricature of the left. -- Cheers, Bob
Re: My own DOF confusion
I dunno, Jaguar was one of the few Marques that Ford could really improve reliability by buying... Cotty wrote: On 23/3/04, CRB discumbobulated: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Will you apologize for Jaguars as well? Of course. Especially as they are now run by Ford (is it?) - an even bigger apology! Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
I don't know what it is about this but the only thought that came to my mind was... Picket Fence? Cotty wrote: I used to sit on the fence, but now I'm not so sure. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
Good point - and it brings this On Topic. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:18 PM Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Yes. It's also good to understand our own philosophies and views. It affects how we see the world. It affects how journalists present the world in their photography. Perhaps it affects how we present our photography. Regards, Bob... They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken. - Anonymous, presumed dead. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds strangely familiar. If you are opposed to the war you are suddenly accused of being an anti american marxist. It has nothing to do with you, but somebody has concluded that this is what you are. I think you found the real problem here. We should listen more to what people say, in stead of telling them what they are. DagT Fra: Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am a Christian right of center. I am continually accused of all manner of things that have nothing to do with me or anyone I know. It's as though someone made an elaborate caricature and assigned to it all sorts of ridiculous extremes. Then all that's necessary for amusement is the accusations. Not as much fun as tar and feathers, but it's legal.
Re: My own DOF confusion
Thinking? He does think... are you sure? All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:52 PM Subject: RE: My own DOF confusion Excellent answer. The line between is more blurred than it was 80 years ago. We have a moderate liberalism/socialism in the US, maintained since the late 19th c. This encompasses a large segment of the population that sees the need to care for human need. But the Left and Right both still exist and are at odds. In US *policy* it's the difference between Ronald Regan's Federalism (W is simply not as refined in his thinking as the US really needs) versus the work to help the few remaining Communist systems to survive approach of the Clinton years. Collin p.s., Please don't flame me, anyone. If this is that personal to you, seek help immediately. :) And smile on the way. -- Original Message -- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:34:51 +0100 (MET) From: Anders Hultman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt! End of pentax-discuss-d Digest V04 Issue #674 * -- - You can impress people at a distance, but you can only impact them up close. -- Howard Hendricks --
Re: My own DOF confusion
Correct - and it is quite un-meaningful nowadays to debate about who sits on the right side or on the left side. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Anders Hultman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: RE: My own DOF confusion On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: This may seem uneducated of me - but I here you all saying i'm right of centre, he's left, left winged, right winged etc, can someone please explain to me just what these terms mean? This dates back to the French parliament of 1789 where the radicals that wanted to change society towards more equality and freedom sat to the left as seen from the rostrum, and the conservatives that wanted to maintain the old system sat to the right. Since then, liberal politics has been labeled left and conservative politics has been labeled right. In the mid 19th century, an even more radical ideology was formed, socialism, to the left of the then current left. This blurred the left--right concept somewhat, since the liberals then became middle or even right. The left--right concept became even more blurred in the 1930's when fascism and nazism was placed off the scale to the right (extreme right) even though many people think that they have more in common with the communists on the extreme left (left of the socialists) than with the conservatives traditionally labeled right. Nowadays, it can be hard to determine what should be called left and right and there also are big differences within each side, so one should generally ask for clarification when these terms are used. Especially in an international context such as this. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: My own DOF confusion
Mug-wump? Sounds like something from Narnia. Collin Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:26:54 -0800 From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you choose otherwise, we'll have to stop calling you a mug-wump. keith Cotty wrote: I used to sit on the fence, but now I'm not so sure. Cheers, Cotty
Re: My own DOF confusion
That's a fascinating way to look at the issue and I realize that you're not alone. A friend from France wonders why we in the US (on both sides of the issue) worry about it. Somewhat the same avoidance of the issue. A few years ago I had an interesting conversation in this vein with a lady, along with her parents, while sitting in (IIRC) O'Hare airport. She wondered about our freedoms and stated that we don't need the KKK -- they should be outlawed and eliminated. My reponse was that the KKK is a problem, but I'd rather be stuck with them than have a government controlling what we think on issues (and punish us if we violate the standards, as does Political Correctness). My concluding remark was that I'd rather be free. At that point she shoot her head with a lack of understanding but her parents nodded in agreement. Many in the US see the issue as yet important because we are willing to struggle with the tension of maintaing freedom. There are totalitarian extremes of all sorts that are the real competition, with the Left** being a concern to many of us. Collin ** Left should be understood as those holding to dialectic imperatives which are used to manipulate liberties and social structure. It does not mean simply socialist, but goes much further. It occurs here in class conflict and ethnic conflict which are contrived to create political pressure. Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:32:01 +0200 From: Raimo K [EMAIL PROTECTED] Correct - and it is quite un-meaningful nowadays to debate about who sits on the right side or on the left side. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho
Re: My own DOF confusion
Huh? Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:08:56 + From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip Collin's absurd caricature of the left. -- Cheers, Bob -- - You can impress people at a distance, but you can only impact them up close. -- Howard Hendricks --
Re: My own DOF confusion
-- Original Message -- Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:45:44 + From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax list [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 23/3/04, CRB discumbobulated: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Will you apologize for Jaguars as well? Of course. Especially as they are now run by Ford (is it?) - an even bigger apology! Cheers, Cotty Perhaps my request was hasty on Jaguars! I think it's us who should therefore apologize to you. Collin -- - You can impress people at a distance, but you can only impact them up close. -- Howard Hendricks --
RE: My own DOF confusion
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: Actually, that was probably poor judgement on my behalf to ask this question. I just hear the terms used by Americans all the time, but we don't use them here in Oz You don't? That's interesting. They're very often used in European politics, even in the official names of political parties. The meaning differ from country to country, though. For instance, there is a party in Sweden which name in English translation means The Left Party, and they are radical socialists, of which some even call themselves communists. At the same time, in Denmark, there is a party which name in English translation also means The Left, and they are more of classical liberals, an ideology originally considered left but nowadays more often considered to be middle or right on an European scale. I suppose, though, that the Danish left party really whould be considered left on an American scale. Left and right means quite different things in the US and in Europe, and actually slightly different things in Nothern and Southern Europe as well. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
Re: My own DOF confusion
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, graywolf wrote: Excellent description Anders. The only thing is I think it is more of a circle with the left and right at less than 90 degrees and the Ultra left and Ultra right between 90 and 180 degrees. The thing the Ultras seem to have in common is a very strong believe in authoritism (to the point of, do what we say or we will kill you). Yes, many people think that the one dimensional left--right scale is too limited to describe the wild variety of ideologies that exist nowadays, and I agree, but I'm not so convinced that a circle would be better or that the ultra left and ultra right would meet at the far end (save for beating up each other, good point there Lasse). A two dimensional scale is what I favour, with economical freedom on one axis, and personal freedom on the other axis. Economical freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to do whatever business with whoever I wish? and personal freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to have sex and live together with whoever I wish? I find that this measurement system is quite good at pinpointing the ideologies of the 20th century, but it misses some other factors, like environmental issues, so it's not perfect either. anders - http://anders.hultman.nu/ med dagens bild och allt!
OT: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion
Hi, A two dimensional scale is what I favour, with economical freedom on one axis, and personal freedom on the other axis. Economical freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to do whatever business with whoever I wish? and personal freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to have sex and live together with whoever I wish? I find that this measurement system is quite good at pinpointing the ideologies of the 20th century, but it misses some other factors, like environmental issues, so it's not perfect either. I'm in favour of both types of freedom. You can find out which Australian political party best suits your needs here: http://www.ozpolitics.info/fun/partyprf.htm Apparently I'm 97% Australian Democrat and 88% Australian Green, whatever that all means. Still, it's good news for Australia because, as a native, I think I'm entitled to vote there. Can I have my Fosters now? -- Cheers, Bob
Re: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion
Not a lecture per. se. but being non political doesn't mean you shouldn't vote, you should follow Heinlein's theory of democracy. If you can't find someone or something to vote for, you should find find someone or something to vote against. This is quite likely a more important task. You should especially vote against anyone forcing you to vote. Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: Yeah me too Bob - its a pity that neither of these parties ever come to power! It would be very cool to see the Labour and Liberal parties out for a change! Even if it were just for the change... Sh, don't tell anyone, but I generally don't vote, too much of a headache for me, I am SO not into politics. No flames intended here guys - so no lectures about my democratic rights etc I just prefer not to vote. I couldn't give a toss who controls the country actually, cause really, I fear, that here in Aus, all of the Polly's are a bunch of twits and I'd prefer not to be a party to it. What gets me is that in a country that prides itself on democracy, we are FORCED to vote. I don't see the democracy in that! Lucky for me (well, in my opinion), I've managed to avoid the lectural rolls thus far. Ok, change of subject now, this is SOOO off topic... Hasn't the weather been nice lately ;-) tan. -Original Message- From: Bob W [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 25 March 2004 7:55 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT: The Politics of Oz (Re: My own DOF confusion Hi, A two dimensional scale is what I favour, with economical freedom on one axis, and personal freedom on the other axis. Economical freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to do whatever business with whoever I wish? and personal freedom is measured by the responses to am I free to have sex and live together with whoever I wish? I find that this measurement system is quite good at pinpointing the ideologies of the 20th century, but it misses some other factors, like environmental issues, so it's not perfect either. I'm in favour of both types of freedom. You can find out which Australian political party best suits your needs here: http://www.ozpolitics.info/fun/partyprf.htm Apparently I'm 97% Australian Democrat and 88% Australian Green, whatever that all means. Still, it's good news for Australia because, as a native, I think I'm entitled to vote there. Can I have my Fosters now? -- Cheers, Bob
Re: My own DOF confusion
- Original Message - From: Steve Larson Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion http://politicalcompass.org/ See where you stand. Me, I'm dead-center left right and north south. Steve Larson Redondo Beach, California Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb
Re: My own DOF confusion
Chris Brogden wrote: On Wed, 24 Mar 2004, William Robb wrote: http://politicalcompass.org/ Me and Ghandi seem to be in the same company (like exactly the same) :-\ William Robb I'm even more left and libertarian than Ghandi, apparently. chris and I'm there too... almost exactly... shall we form a club? annnsan
Re: My own DOF confusion
Collin, I feel it would be appropriate if you changed your sig to some short, brilliant, funny or weird thought, quote or whatever, as others do it. The way it is now, it is a list of very, very offensive statements - and I think that you are aware of that. In this sense it is not 'just your sig' but rather provocative and impolite. I don't think that a pissing contest can help here, but hopefully reason can. Do you really *need* this signature line? Best Regards, Sven Zitat von Collin R Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 20:57 2004.03.22 -0500, you wrote: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:08:35 + From: Steve Jolly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lasse: Agreed, Collin's political stance appears to be a little right-wing, even by American standards, but if you don't like his posts you can always instruct your client to filter them out. :-) S And that was just my sig. Not even a discussion point. Collin
Re: Re: My own DOF confusion
Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. Saddam Hussein a Marxist? Wow, you really know a lot about political ideologies. Everybody else: Sorry! DagT
Re: Lasse V. Collin, formerly Re: My own DOF confusion
Lasse will get his medication right quite soon. All the best! Raimo K Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Lasse Collin: Surely your dispute could be taken off-list? Thanks.
Re: My own DOF confusion
Thank you, Boris... We needed a Sargent-at-Arms, before the name calling degenerates into a free-for-all, like the Korean or Japanese [what legislative body, council, assembly, ?] jumping over desks to get at each other... Time for cooler heads, gents. keith Boris Liberman wrote: Hi! LK No, I won't, you arrogant little piece of shit! LK Not as long as you keep trolling, littering this list and LK pissing in decent list member's faces with your moronic American LK right wing preachings. Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam [...] Collin, Lasse, as a starter of the original thread, I hereby ask you to come to order. There is no sense in mutual insults. There is even less sense in mutual insults in public. Please, be civilized... Hope you understand. Boris ([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Re: My own DOF confusion
Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin. Interisting view. In our part of the world Hitler is put on the extreme right, even though he used the term socialist in the name of his national socialist party. He was never a Marxist, he even killed a lot of marxists, and for your information: there are lots of differenses between socialists and marxists. Stalin is more difficult, you may say that Stalin misused an ideology to make a totalitarian system, but there are people on this list who knows a lot more about that. To me is seems that you have the rather simplistic solution to put anything you dont like on the other side of the scale, but this is too OT for this list. So I stop here. DagT
Re[3]: My own DOF confusion
was this a discussion from a different list? speaking of the subj, apparently, the shallow DOF term doesn't apply only to lenses. mishka Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin.
Re: My own DOF confusion
I see that Kirkland Ramsey is back, manifesting himself as a Scandinavian twit. Lasse, if you want to continue this to the childlike extreme that you seem capable of, may I suggest you enter into an offensive sig file battle, instead of just spewing your own brand of puss Here, I even did some homework for you. http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/ladenframe.htm Regards William Robb
Re: Re: My own DOF confusion
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:27:31 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin. Interisting view. In our part of the world Hitler is put on the extreme right, even though he used the term socialist in the name of his national socialist party. He was never a Marxist, he even killed a lot of marxists, and for your information: there are lots of differenses between socialists and marxists. Stalin is more difficult, you may say that Stalin misused an ideology to make a totalitarian system, but there are people on this list who knows a lot more about that. To me is seems that you have the rather simplistic solution to put anything you dont like on the other side of the scale, but this is too OT for this list. So I stop here. DagT That S.H. was a follower of Hitler and Stalin is a fact. It won't take much research for you to find that information. It is an unfortunate western idealism that makes Marxism into some warm-fuzzy system to meet all needs and make everyone equal. Or roughly so. But Marx called for violent revolution and a totalitarian state. That what Stalin, Lenin, and Mao established. Hitler created a different form of socialism, opposed to the communism of the USSR. He killed Communists as he hated the system established in the USSR. To say that Hitler was not a Marxist is to not have studied him. He opposed religion in general, using Christians to oppose Jews and then secularizing the state, having the later goal of destroying the church that he (unfortunately) manipulated so well. He went so far as to remove SS marriages from being social/church events to being only civil events. This redefinition and secularization is common in all socialist Marxist system.s To say that Stalin misused an ideology is only idicative of being too idealistic to face the reality of what Marx was asking for -- control. The association of far right (whatever that means) with Nazism is a thought perpetrated by the Left. You probably heard it in college. Most did. Because the dialectic indoctrination is pervasive. The simplistic categorization of my statements as merely black white (see, we can be on-topic here!) only shows that you've not made inquiry as to my world view and it's development. These few statements are not at all sufficient to lead you to such a conclusion. CRB -- Not all Liberals are Leftists. But the Left has done an excellent job of mixing up the rhetoric and creating confusion on what Liberal and Left really mean. You can see the difference in the behavior. President Kennedy was still anti-Communist (not as much as we would have liked yet still he was), but count the Marxists that the Clintons supported or put into power. -- just me --
Re: Lasse V. Collin, formerly Re: My own DOF confusion
I said: Lasse Collin: Surely your dispute could be taken off-list? Thanks. Lasse replied: No way. This is a list issue, and not a personal dispute. I disagree, Lasse. Collin has been using that sig line for quite a while. Everybody has seen it by now. You're the only one who has chosen to respond by attacking him personally. Apparently everyone else who doesn't agree with him is content to ignore it. That's usual for sig lines. A list issue response would be something like I don't think members should put political opinions in sig lines. This one offends me, and others may have problems with it too. What you actually did was cuss him out directly and send your personal attack to the list. See the difference?
RE: Re: My own DOF confusion
not trying to offend here, and I love many of the OT conversations that we enjoy on list, however, IIRC, one of the most enforced rules is that of no religion, no politics and no something else (can't remember the something else part! lol). I really don't think that this conversation is doing anyone any good and it is way past any entertainment value that it may have once possessed. tan. -Original Message- From: Collin Brendemuehl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 1:08 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Re: My own DOF confusion Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:27:31 +0100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fra: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin. Interisting view. In our part of the world Hitler is put on the extreme right, even though he used the term socialist in the name of his national socialist party. He was never a Marxist, he even killed a lot of marxists, and for your information: there are lots of differenses between socialists and marxists. Stalin is more difficult, you may say that Stalin misused an ideology to make a totalitarian system, but there are people on this list who knows a lot more about that. To me is seems that you have the rather simplistic solution to put anything you dont like on the other side of the scale, but this is too OT for this list. So I stop here. DagT That S.H. was a follower of Hitler and Stalin is a fact. It won't take much research for you to find that information. It is an unfortunate western idealism that makes Marxism into some warm-fuzzy system to meet all needs and make everyone equal. Or roughly so. But Marx called for violent revolution and a totalitarian state. That what Stalin, Lenin, and Mao established. Hitler created a different form of socialism, opposed to the communism of the USSR. He killed Communists as he hated the system established in the USSR. To say that Hitler was not a Marxist is to not have studied him. He opposed religion in general, using Christians to oppose Jews and then secularizing the state, having the later goal of destroying the church that he (unfortunately) manipulated so well. He went so far as to remove SS marriages from being social/church events to being only civil events. This redefinition and secularization is common in all socialist Marxist system.s To say that Stalin misused an ideology is only idicative of being too idealistic to face the reality of what Marx was asking for -- control. The association of far right (whatever that means) with Nazism is a thought perpetrated by the Left. You probably heard it in college. Most did. Because the dialectic indoctrination is pervasive. The simplistic categorization of my statements as merely black white (see, we can be on-topic here!) only shows that you've not made inquiry as to my world view and it's development. These few statements are not at all sufficient to lead you to such a conclusion. CRB -- Not all Liberals are Leftists. But the Left has done an excellent job of mixing up the rhetoric and creating confusion on what Liberal and Left really mean. You can see the difference in the behavior. President Kennedy was still anti-Communist (not as much as we would have liked yet still he was), but count the Marxists that the Clintons supported or put into power. -- just me --
Re: Re: My own DOF confusion
- Original Message - From: Tanya Mayer Photography Subject: RE: Re: My own DOF confusion not trying to offend here, and I love many of the OT conversations that we enjoy on list, however, IIRC, one of the most enforced rules is that of no religion, no politics and no something else (can't remember the something else part! lol). I really don't think that this conversation is doing anyone any good and it is way past any entertainment value that it may have once possessed. It is appropriate though that what has become a political discussion takes place under the subject of depth of field, which is renowned for it's shallowness unless carefully controlled. William Robb
Re: My own DOF confusion
I opened a message by Collin. Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: OT: Active image communication I got this slapped in my face: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. I asked him: What's this crap doing on the PDML? You sent it Collin. You explain. Lasse There was no explanation. I opened another message to take part of a discussion on DOF, and I got this slapped in my face by Collin: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. In subsequent message Collin suggested: You'll get over it. I responded: No, I won't, you arrogant little piece of shit! Not as long as you keep trolling, littering this list and pissing in decent list member's faces with your moronic American right wing preachings. Now enters William Robb: From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] I see that Kirkland Ramsey is back, manifesting himself as a Scandinavian twit. Lasse, if you want to continue this to the childlike extreme that you seem capable of, may I suggest you enter into an offensive sig file battle, instead of just spewing your own brand of puss Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
- Original Message - From: Lasse Karlsson Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Only in your mind, my dear little man, does my reply confirm your case. I am just calling it like I see it. What you are doing by continuing this little diatribe on list may be far more devastating to the PDML than any sig files may do. Your best bet is to try to stay on topic, and if you have issue with an off topic post, or portion thereof, take it up off list with the person in question. At the moment, both you and Collin are close to hitting my auto delete, which is something I don't do lightly. William Robb
Re: My own DOF confusion
Hmm... I think his post are fine; but how can I instruct my mail client to filter out his signature? g Alex Sarbu - Original Message - From: Steve Jolly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:08 AM Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Lasse: Agreed, Collin's political stance appears to be a little right-wing, even by American standards, but if you don't like his posts you can always instruct your client to filter them out. :-) S Lasse Karlsson wrote: From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 7:14 PM Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. Do you know what they say about you, Collin? They say that you are so full of shit that it's finally overflowed. Is this true? Just curious, Lasse --- Martisoare virtuale prin http://felicitari.acasa.ro
Re: My own DOF confusion
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Lasse Karlsson Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Only in your mind, my dear little man I'm 184 cm:s tall. You may be fatter, but I am still a man. does my reply confirm your case. I am just calling it like I see it. As am I right now. What you are doing by continuing this little diatribe on list may be far more devastating to the PDML than any sig files may do. Who entered and is now continuing this diatribe, while complaining about others doing the same? You are a hypocrite. Your best bet is to try to stay on topic, and if you have issue with an off topic post, or portion thereof, take it up off list with the person in question. Given your record of on list entering and continuing off topic posts as well as demeaning personal attacks, you're a hypocrite and you know it (as does everybody else who's been on PDML for a while). I reserve off list communications for friendly contacts. At the moment, both you and Collin are close to hitting my auto delete, which is something I don't do lightly. As if I'd give a rat's ass about who hits your auto delete. If you want to killfile my posts, please do. I'm perfectly fine with whoever will be left. Lasse
Sigs (was Re[3]: My own DOF confusion)
collin, you are a troll and a moron. shut up. and i am with lasse -- your sig had no place in pdlm. mishka -Original Message- From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
Re: My own DOF confusion
Collin, considering you don't even know how to correctly SPELL the word 'Buddha', I have some doubts as to your ability to intelligently discuss the topic. Enjoy the quote below == Brian Dipert Sacramento, California mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com Why of course the people don't want war...That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament or a communist dictatorship...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger. -Hermann Goering, Nazi Reichsmarshal and Luftwaffe chief at Nuremberg trials, 1945
Re: My own DOF confusion
Lasse (and, for that matter, Collin) Your point(s) is/are made, now can we move on please? thanks in advance Matt Quoting Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Lasse Karlsson Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Only in your mind, my dear little man I'm 184 cm:s tall. You may be fatter, but I am still a man. does my reply confirm your case. I am just calling it like I see it. As am I right now. What you are doing by continuing this little diatribe on list may be far more devastating to the PDML than any sig files may do. Who entered and is now continuing this diatribe, while complaining about others doing the same? You are a hypocrite. Your best bet is to try to stay on topic, and if you have issue with an off topic post, or portion thereof, take it up off list with the person in question. Given your record of on list entering and continuing off topic posts as well as demeaning personal attacks, you're a hypocrite and you know it (as does everybody else who's been on PDML for a while). I reserve off list communications for friendly contacts. At the moment, both you and Collin are close to hitting my auto delete, which is something I don't do lightly. As if I'd give a rat's ass about who hits your auto delete. If you want to killfile my posts, please do. I'm perfectly fine with whoever will be left. Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
I think I prefer reading Marx to define Marxism... DagT På 23. mar. 2004 kl. 16.07 skrev Collin Brendemuehl: To say that Hitler was not a Marxist is to not have studied him. He opposed religion in general, using Christians to oppose Jews and then secularizing the state, having the later goal of destroying the church that he (unfortunately) manipulated so well. He went so far as to remove SS marriages from being social/church events to being only civil events. This redefinition and secularization is common in all socialist Marxist system.s
Re: Lasse V. Collin, formerly Re: My own DOF confusion
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:57 AM Subject: Lasse V. Collin, formerly Re: My own DOF confusion Lasse Collin: Surely your dispute could be taken off-list? Thanks. No way. This is a list issue, and not a personal dispute. Lasse Rubbish. Most of the list is quite capable of ignoring the matter. It's just the two of you who are incapable of doing anything other than conducting a childish squabble, in public, in a totally inappropriate forum. You're only arguing because you disagree on a political issue. It's got nothing to do with photography. Take it outside.
Re: My own DOF confusion
Sven: Thank you for a civil response. Yes, the sig was provocative. Hopefully of thoughts and not just emotions. But insulting or offensive? Hardly. You're wrong. But to explain how would be inappropriate for the list, So I'll refrain. Think about it yourself, and maybe you'll understand.
Re: My own DOF confusion
From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations, Lasse. You have just become the 4th person in my 18 years of fooling around with my computer, and talking to people around the world, to be PLONKed! Thanks, Keith. It's an honor. Long overdue. Wish I had been the first, though. Lasse You absolutely refuse to be civilized and show gentlemanly qualities and I simply don't want to listen to you anymore. 'Bye. keith whaley * * * Lasse Karlsson wrote: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag? Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
Lasse, moderate it please. Not agreeing with someone isn't an excuse for wild insults, and I personally don't appreciate receiving such mail. As others have asked repeatedly, please keep your comments on this matter outside of the mailing list. Thanks in advance Matt p.s. can the others involved perhaps not respond and let this thread die? Quoting Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag? Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
I haven't followed the current dialog of diatribes, but Lasse made it to my list shortly after 9/11. Life is too short to waste time on nonsense. From: Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Congratulations, Lasse. You have just become the 4th person in my 18 years of fooling around with my computer, and talking to people around the world, to be PLONKed!
Re: My own DOF confusion
From: M D Giess [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lasse, moderate it please. Not agreeing with someone isn't an excuse for wild insults, and I personally don't appreciate receiving such mail. It's not a matter of disagreement. The man accuses me publicly for having said that the U.S. got what it deserved after 9/11. That's a lie. All I ask is that he offers proof for what he's saying or apologize. Is that too much to ask? Furthermore he is using this list only to vent personal malice towards another list member. Doing it by publicly lying and throwing suspicion on someone else amounts to being a scumbag in my book. Since I also know him from years back, which you maybe don't, I can safely inform you that he is also a creep and a slime bag, an opinion that some other list members seem to agree on too. (This is just to put this issue into a PDML-historical perspective for any newbies on the list.) As others have asked repeatedly, please keep your comments on this matter outside of the mailing list. As long as other members attacks me personally on the list, I will defend my honor on the list the way I see fit. Lasse Thanks in advance Matt p.s. can the others involved perhaps not respond and let this thread die? Quoting Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag? Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
That's a really cheap shot, and so far beneath you that it makes me wonder if I've misjudged you all these years. You know damned well that Lasse's going to respond in a similar way, further perpetuating this nonsense. Shame on you for pouring gasoline on the flames. shel graywolf wrote: Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. The guy almost makes me dislike Swedes. Did you notice that he is a Swede who moved to a Finnish island, and then advocates taking it away from Finland and making it part of Sweden? I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. Not a peep. I figure an American stepped on his toes in a crowded elevator once (grin).
Re: My own DOF confusion
As long as other members attacks me personally on the list, I will defend my honor on the list the way I see fit. He started it didn't even work in the school playground. Most people have moved on beyond that point. Learn from them.
Re: Lasse V. Collin, formerly Re: My own DOF confusion
Frits, I understand that list decorum is something to be attentive to. Hence this is, in my opinion, a suitable point relating to the framework of discussions. Are my current sig choices unacceptable as well? (see below) Where does one draw the line? If it the simple principle of civility, then how was that broached by the earlier content? These are openly evangelical Christian items. That basis may offend some. But they'll get over it. I'm philosophically opposed to the principles behind Hermann Hesse quote yet I don't demean the poster. I got over it. Collin * - You can impress people at a distance, but you can only impact them up close. -- Howard Hendricks - Toward the end of his life, George Truett was asked what he would do differently if he had his life to live over again. He said, I would have spent more time with a few people. quoted from Discipleship Call Perspective http://disciplescall.gospelcom.net/perspective/ * Date: 23 Mar 2004 18:55:36 +0100 From: Frits =?ISO-8859-1?Q?W=FCthrich?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree with Lasse, this is no place for a text like that, whether it is a sig or not. Continuation of using it doesn't make it OK.
Re: Sigs (was Re[3]: My own DOF confusion)
OK, I see your point - but it is highly unnecessary to call somebody a piece of shit in front of the PDLM whether he has right wing opinions (or left wing) or not. There is an old fashioned word proper but the meaning escapes me... All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Mike Ignatiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Sigs (was Re[3]: My own DOF confusion) collin, you are a troll and a moron. shut up. and i am with lasse -- your sig had no place in pdlm. mishka -Original Message- From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
Re: My own DOF confusion
That does not make him a Marxist - and he is not. I´d say he is a Saddamist. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 2:56 PM Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion From: keller.schaefer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion Sven: Thank you for a civil response. snip DagT: Yes, he is a Marxist. An avid follower of Hitler Stalin. snip
Re: My own DOF confusion
Lasse, I knew you'd respond with some invective and rough language. Please, try at least to tone it down. You can make the same point - even make it stronger - without resorting to such language as in this post and in your reply to another message. How all this political garbage got strewn all over the list is beyond me - yeah, I know who said what to whom - but this sort of thing on a photo list does little to promote the enjoyment of photography and the use of Pentax gear. If you and Collin and Graywolf want to make political statements, make 'em through photographs, not through rants on the list. You've got cameras, use 'em instead of this list to make your feelings and politics known. shel Lasse Karlsson wrote: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag? Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
I did not intend to sent that to the list. I need to remember to change the recipient before typing, maybe a post-it note on the monitor. I do apologize to the list for posting it here. Shel Belinkoff wrote: That's a really cheap shot, and so far beneath you that it makes me wonder if I've misjudged you all these years. You know damned well that Lasse's going to respond in a similar way, further perpetuating this nonsense. Shame on you for pouring gasoline on the flames. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway.
Re: My own DOF confusion
I appreciate your post, Shel. From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lasse, I knew you'd respond with some invective and rough language. Please, try at least to tone it down. I will, when personal attacks on my integrity on the list stop. (As for the invectives - while I realize they are perceived as invectives or insults at the receiver's end, I just, as a linguist, want to point out that to me, from the sender's point of view, they are merely descriptions, as accurate as possible...) You can make the same point - even make it stronger - without resorting to such language as in this post and in your reply to another message. I don't know about that, Shel. I really don't think I need to make any stronger points. I think calling graywolf a scumbag, liar, creep and a slime bag pretty much sums it up quite well. How all this political garbage got strewn all over the list is beyond me For me it started with post by Collin. Others took it from there. That's the way it usually starts - someone posting offensive political statements. Personally I didn't make any political statements. I just tried to get rid of them. - yeah, I know who said what to whom - but this sort of thing on a photo list does little to promote the enjoyment of photography and the use of Pentax gear. I agree with you completely. That's why I asked Collin for an explanation of why he posted political statements to the list in the first place. If you and Collin and Graywolf want to make political statements I have no wish to make political statements, and I didn't make any. On the contrary, I was merely trying to get political statements off the list. As for Collin's and graywolfs intentions, you'd have to ask them. I have no issue with Collin's posts anymore, since he already took a decision for the purpose of maintaining positive relationships on PDML and for which I respect him. What has now followed are just all these snakes, whose ugly heads at the smell of dirt pop up to get their piece of the dirt throwing action in personal attacks on me. make 'em through photographs, not through rants on the list. You've got cameras, use 'em instead of this list to make your feelings and politics known. I have no interest in making my politics known. I just want to make pretty pictures, discuss photography and participate in this list without getting subject to any political preachings, just as the PDML rules say. Thanks for your good intentions. I appreciate it and agree with them wholeheartedly. Lasse Lasse Karlsson wrote: From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag? Lasse
RE: My own DOF confusion
Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
Damn, what is this ... a full moon or something?! Same problem also on another list I'm on. Why don't we just say no more sigs, period, whether left, right, up, down or just plain dopey? - Original Message - From: zoomshot [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:28 PM Subject: RE: My own DOF confusion Ok, enough of the rants and raves, why don't you kiss and make-up and then start taking a few snaps. Life is too short for bitching, lets get on with it. Ziggy
RE: My own DOF confusion
-Original Message- From: Cotty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 March 2004 23:00 To: pentax list Subject: RE: My own DOF confusion Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Cheers, Cotty Ok, how about; I apologise for this; LONDON SIGNS IN A LAUNDROMAT: Automatic washing machines. Please remove all your clothes when the light goes out. IN A LONDON DEPARTMENT STORE: Bargain Basement Upstairs IN AN OFFICE: Would the person who took the step ladder yesterday please bring it back or further steps will be taken. IN ANOTHER OFFICE: After the tea break staff should empty the teapot and stand upside down on the draining board. ON A CHURCH DOOR:: This is the gate of Heaven. Enter ye all by this door. (This door is kept locked because of the draft. Please use side entrance) OUTSIDE A SECOND HAND SHOP: We exchange anything - bicycles, washing machines etc. Why not bring your wife along and get a wonderful bargain. QUICKSAND WARNING: Quicksand. Any person passing this point will be drowned. By order of the District Council. NOTICE IN A DRY CLEANER'S WINDOW: Anyone leaving their garments here for more than 30 days will be disposed of. IN A HEALTH FOOD SHOP WINDOW: Closed due to illness. SPOTTED IN A SAFARI PARK: Elephants Please Stay In Your Car SEEN DURING A CONFERENCE: For anyone who has children and doesn't know it, there is a day care on the first floor. NOTICE IN A FIELD: The farmer allows walkers to cross the field for free, but the bull charges. MESSAGE ON A LEAFLET: If you cannot read, this leaflet will tell you how to get lessons. ON A REPAIR SHOP DOOR: We can repair anything (Please knock hard on the door - the bell doesn't work) SPOTTED IN A TOILET IN A LONDON OFFICE BLOCK: Toilet out of order. Please use floor below.
Re: A QUICKIE Was: My own DOF confusion
Slightly exaggerated, imo. I seriously doubt I'd spend more than 3,500 $ in such an occasion. The last time I did that, I spent even less that that, and it took me just one day :-) Dario - Original Message - From: Tanya Mayer Photography [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:50 PM Subject: RE: A QUICKIE Was: My own DOF confusion hehe! Ok, here's another goodie... A bit long, but very appropriate to this thread, IMO... Oil Change instructions for Women: 1) Pull up to Ultra Tune after driving 10,000klms since the last oil change. 2) Drink a cup of coffee. 3) 15 minutes later write a cheque and leave with a properly maintained vehicle. Money Spent: Oil Change $55.00 Coffee $2.50 Total $57.50 Oil Change instructions for Men: 1) Wait until Saturday, drive to auto parts store and buy a case of oil, filter, kitty litter, hand cleaner and a scented tree, write a cheque for $95.00. 2) Stop by Liquorland and buy a case of beer, write a cheque for $30.00, drive home. 3) Open a beer and drink it. 4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack stands. 5) Find jack stands under kid's pedal car. 6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it. 7) Place drain pan under engine. 8) Look for 9/16 box end spanner. 9) Give up and use pliers. 10) Unscrew drain plug. 11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: ! splash hot oil on face and arms in process. Swear. 12) Crawl out from under car to wipe hot oil off face and arms. Throw kitty litter on spilled oil. 13) Have another beer while watching oil drain. 14) Spend 30 minutes looking for oil filter wrench. 15) Give up, crawl under car and hammer a screwdriver through oil filter and twist off. 16) Crawl out from under car with dripping oil filter splashing oil everywhere from holes. Cleverly hide old oil filter among trash in trash can to avoid environmental penalties. Drink a beer. 17) A mate shows up, finish case of beer with him. Decide to finish oil change tomorrow so you can go see his new garage door opener work. 18) Sunday: Skip church because I gotta finish the oil change. Drag pan full of old oil out from underneath car. Cleverly dump oil in hole in back yard instead of taking it to recycle. 19) Throw kitty litter on oil spilled during step 18. 20) Beer. No, drank it all yesterday. 21) Walk to Liquorland buy beer. 22) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to gasket surface. 23) Dump first Litre of fresh oil into engine. 24) Remember drain plug from step 11. 25) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan. 26) Remember that the used oil is buried in a hole in the back yard along with drain plug. 27) Drink beer. 28) Shovel out hole and sift oily mud for drain plug. Re-shovel oily patch of ground and avoid environmental penalties. Wash drain plug in lawn mower fuel. 29) Discover that first Litre of fresh oil is now on the floor. Throw kitty litter on oil spill. 30) Drink beer. 31) Crawl under car getting kitty litter into eyes. Wipe eyes with oily rag used to clean drain plug. Slip with stupid pliers tightening drain plug and bang knuckles on frame. 32) Bang head on floorpan in reaction to step 31. 33) Begin swearing fit. 34) Throw stupid pliers. 35) Swear for additional 10 minutes because pliers hit Miss August (2002) 36) Beer. 37) Clean up hands and forehead and bandage as required to stop blood flow. 38) Beer. 39) Beer. 40) Dump in five fresh litres of oil. 41) Beer. 42) Lower car from jack stands. 43) Accidentally crush remaining case of new motor oil. 44) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh oil spilled during steps 23-43. 45) Beer. 46) Test drive car. 47) Get pulled over: arrested for driving under the influence. 48) Car gets impounded. 49) Call loving wife, make bail. 50) 12 hours later, get car from impound yard. Money spent: Parts $95.00 DUI $2500.00 Impound fee $75.00 Bail $1500.00 Beer $60.00 Total-- $4230.00 --You know the job was done and you know the job was done right
Re: My own DOF confusion
Anything in particular, or would you prefer to bank it for future use? :) - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:59 PM Subject: RE: My own DOF confusion Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
I kinda like it! Here's my new sig line (stolen from Collin). You may whine and call me names as you are wont to do. It will be amusing! Slapped in the face! Ha! You're so funny with your hyperbole! No, some day when something of real importance needs to be addressed, your exaggerations will have rendered your rhetoric - mundane. Regards, Bob... Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. From: Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] I opened a message by Collin. Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: OT: Active image communication I got this slapped in my face: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. I asked him: What's this crap doing on the PDML? You sent it Collin. You explain. Lasse There was no explanation. I opened another message to take part of a discussion on DOF, and I got this slapped in my face by Collin: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. In subsequent message Collin suggested: You'll get over it. I responded: No, I won't, you arrogant little piece of shit! Not as long as you keep trolling, littering this list and pissing in decent list member's faces with your moronic American right wing preachings. Now enters William Robb: From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] I see that Kirkland Ramsey is back, manifesting himself as a Scandinavian twit. Lasse, if you want to continue this to the childlike extreme that you seem capable of, may I suggest you enter into an offensive sig file battle, instead of just spewing your own brand of puss Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Lasse
RE:OK time to call a halt was was My own DOF confusion
-Original Message- From: Bob Blakely [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 March 2004 23:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion I kinda like it! Here's my new sig line (stolen from Collin). You may whine and call me names as you are wont to do. It will be amusing! Slapped in the face! Ha! You're so funny with your hyperbole! No, some day when something of real importance needs to be addressed, your exaggerations will have rendered your rhetoric - mundane. Regards, Bob... BSE Two cows were grazing near each other. One says: Are you worried about the mad cow disease that is going around? The other replied: Why should I worry? I'm a squirrel.
Re: My own DOF confusion
HEY! I'm the scumbag here, and don't you forget it! Further, I have not yet appointed a slime bag or little creep as I am currently quite able to fill these positions as well. Regards, Bob... A Democracy is three wolves and two sheep voting on dinner. A Republic is three hundred wolves and two hundred sheep voting for three wolves and two sheep to prepare the menu. A Constitutional Republic is a republic wherein it has been agreed before hand that lamb is not on the menu. Then the Supreme Court rules, five wolves to four sheep, that mutton is not lamb! From: Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] Q: What is the difference between Lasse Karlsson and a terrorist? A: A terrorist has guts. I have to admit I have been waiting for him to tell us that Spain got what it deserved as he did about the US after 9/11. You scumbag of a liar - you present the list proof of what your saying or apologize, you little creep!! Do you have the guts for it, slime bag?
Re: My own DOF confusion
From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Really laughing out loud and clear! (Also, thanks to all of you for turning this ill fated thread into the best of PDML-humour.) Lasse
RE: My own DOF confusion
On 23/3/04, ZIGGY discumbobulated: Yeah! Blimey! That's it! I'm off outa here. Think I'll go and hang out on the EOS list. Bye! click click-click I'm back. Cheers, Cotty That was quick.. That was *quiche* Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
RE: A QUICKIE Was: My own DOF confusion
So, is this your new SIG? ;-O Collin -Original Message- From: Tanya Mayer Photography [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 23 March 2004 22:50 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] hehe! Here is one for you; WOMENS'S GUIDE TO DRIVING MEN CRAZY Do not say what you mean. Ever. Be ambiguous. Always. Cry. Cry often. Tell them it's their fault. Bring things up that were said, done, or thought years, months, or decades ago...or with other boyfriends. Make them apologize for everything. Stash feminine products in their cars, backpacks and in their books as cute reminders that you were thinking of them. Gossip. Gossip about everything that walks. Look them in the eye and start laughing. Get mad at them for everything. Discuss your period in front of them. Watch them squirm. Hold grudges. Demand to be called or e-mailed. Often. Whine when they don't comply. When complimented, make sure to be paranoid. Take nothing at face value. Use daddy as a weapon. Tell them about his gun collection, his quick trigger finger, and his affection for his Little Princess. Be late for everything. Yell if they're late. Talk about your ex-boyfriend, twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Compare and contrast. Go everywhere in groups, especially the bathroom. Do nothing alone. Independence is a sign of weakness. Make them guess what you want and then get mad when they're wrong. Plan little relationship anniversaries, i.e. the monthly anniversary of the time you saw each other in the library...for five minutes. Then get mad at them for forgetting. Then cry. Gather many female friends and dance to I Will Survive while they are present. Sing all the words. Sing to them. Sing loud. Correct their grammar. Describe back-alley abortions. Then remind them of their mother or little sister. Constantly claim you're fat. Ask them. Then cry, regardless of their answer. Leave out the good parts in stories. Make sure to only be interested in guys in the same friendship group. Make sure to cause trouble. Make them wonder. Confusion is a good thing. Declare that you are not wacko. Criticize the way they dress. Criticize the music they listen to. Criticize their hair. Ignore them. When asked, What's wrong? tell them that if they don't know, you're not going to tell them. Try to change them. Try to mold them. Try to get them to dance. Pretend you're interested, lead them on, then feign ignorance when confronted. When they screw up, never let them forget it. Make them stay at religious services until they are close to fainting...just because. Blame everything on PMS. Blame everything on PMS only after it has been blamed on them. Whenever there is silence ask them, What are you thinking? Get mad if they don't notice a haircut. Even if it's only a half inch. Read into everything. Over-analyze everything. Make it your goal to make them cry
Re: My own DOF confusion
I've been awating (and expecting) you to appear in this thread, Bob. Glad to see you. You were the missing link who now closes the circle. No, I won't call you any names at all. Sorry about your missing out on your expected amusement. (If you want to, you can go back in the thread and pick whatever names you'd want attributed to you, though.) The thing is...don't know how to explain this, and you may get disappointed... I don't take you seriously enough when you're adressing me in this way. You have once and for all proven to be too much of a kind of man that I respect and can sympathize with, in that you in the past repeatedly have returned to the list with SINCERE apologies for a number of hasty comments that you have made and regretted. You can go on, pick whatever insults you wish to adress to me - I wouldn't really mind or care that much about it, I think. Sorry to disappoint you. (I'm actually trying to find suggestions on insults that would bite, but I honestly can't come up with any that would work for you. Feel free to try though, I guess you'll notice if you're successful.) (Don't know if I mentioned it before, but you are simply very and too much like an old close friend of mine.) It was nice to hear from you, Bob. Lasse From: Bob Blakely [EMAIL PROTECTED] I kinda like it! Here's my new sig line (stolen from Collin). You may whine and call me names as you are wont to do. It will be amusing! Slapped in the face! Ha! You're so funny with your hyperbole! No, some day when something of real importance needs to be addressed, your exaggerations will have rendered your rhetoric - mundane. Regards, Bob... Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. From: Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] I opened a message by Collin. Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:28 PM Subject: OT: Active image communication I got this slapped in my face: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. I asked him: What's this crap doing on the PDML? You sent it Collin. You explain. Lasse There was no explanation. I opened another message to take part of a discussion on DOF, and I got this slapped in my face by Collin: Keep an eye on the Left. They complain any time we go after any group that hates America. They were ambivalent about going after Al Queda going into Afghanistan. They really opposed overthrowing Marxists like Aristide and Saddam Hussein, et al. After all, they share a common goal with the former and common world view with the latter. In subsequent message Collin suggested: You'll get over it. I responded: No, I won't, you arrogant little piece of shit! Not as long as you keep trolling, littering this list and pissing in decent list member's faces with your moronic American right wing preachings. Now enters William Robb: From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] I see that Kirkland Ramsey is back, manifesting himself as a Scandinavian twit. Lasse, if you want to continue this to the childlike extreme that you seem capable of, may I suggest you enter into an offensive sig file battle, instead of just spewing your own brand of puss Who's spewing now? Being compared to Kirkland Ramsey, being called a Scandinavian twit as well as getting my posts characterized as childlike extreme and spewing puss by you only confirms my good case in this matter. Now you are calling everybody who doesn't want Collin's American political preachings on the list to enter a sig. file flame war on U.S. domestic and international politics! That's not only highly irresponsible, it may also mean a devastating blow to the PDML as such. Lasse
Re: My own DOF confusion
WHO Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: My own DOF confusion On 23/3/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] discumbobulated: We needed a Sargent-at-Arms, before the name calling degenerates into a free-for-all, I nominate Dobo Cheers, Cotty
Re: My own DOF confusion
Cotty wrote: [...] Must go to bed - up early to film in London tomorrow - I'm at the Saatchi Gallery, County Hall, Belvedere Road SE1 at 9.45 am - a controversial (painted) portrait goes on public display and we film the artist, vox pop visitors. Then off to a student fashion show at the Old Spitalfields market for lunch. Takes a brave man to eat lunch at an Old Spitalfield! Busy day. Rounding up fresh barf bags? keith Peace, dudes. Cheers, Cotty
Re: Sigs (was Re[3]: My own DOF confusion)
It seems to escape everyone else these days too. Raimo K wrote: OK, I see your point - but it is highly unnecessary to call somebody a piece of shit in front of the PDLM whether he has right wing opinions (or left wing) or not. There is an old fashioned word proper but the meaning escapes me... All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http:\\www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho - Original Message - From: Mike Ignatiev [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:17 PM Subject: Sigs (was Re[3]: My own DOF confusion) collin, you are a troll and a moron. shut up. and i am with lasse -- your sig had no place in pdlm. mishka -Original Message- From: Collin Brendemuehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] ...
Re: My own DOF confusion
He's not on the list anymore but damn it I mis him. Cotty wrote: On 23/3/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] discumbobulated: We needed a Sargent-at-Arms, before the name calling degenerates into a free-for-all, I nominate Dobo Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
And well you should... Cotty wrote: Being British, I'd just like to apologise. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|www.macads.co.uk/snaps _
Re: My own DOF confusion
I'm not really that good at the insults. For a real master, I suggest that you search the archives for a fellow named Mafud... Regards, Bob... A Democracy is three wolves and two sheep voting on dinner. A Republic is three hundred wolves and two hundred sheep voting for three wolves and two sheep to prepare the menu. A Constitutional Republic is a republic wherein it has been agreed before hand that lamb is not on the menu. Then the Supreme Court rules, five wolves to four sheep, that mutton is not lamb! From: Lasse Karlsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've been awating (and expecting) you to appear in this thread, Bob. Glad to see you. You were the missing link who now closes the circle. No, I won't call you any names at all. Sorry about your missing out on your expected amusement. (If you want to, you can go back in the thread and pick whatever names you'd want attributed to you, though.) The thing is...don't know how to explain this, and you may get disappointed... I don't take you seriously enough when you're adressing me in this way. You have once and for all proven to be too much of a kind of man that I respect and can sympathize with, in that you in the past repeatedly have returned to the list with SINCERE apologies for a number of hasty comments that you have made and regretted. You can go on, pick whatever insults you wish to adress to me - I wouldn't really mind or care that much about it, I think. Sorry to disappoint you. (I'm actually trying to find suggestions on insults that would bite, but I honestly can't come up with any that would work for you. Feel free to try though, I guess you'll notice if you're successful.) (Don't know if I mentioned it before, but you are simply very and too much like an old close friend of mine.) It was nice to hear from you, Bob. Lasse
