Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: mrs2000
What's an MRS2000 ? (from the subject line) As to the Code Plug Too New message go here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/rss/rss-index.html and read the Background Information I article. At 01:12 PM 05/16/10, you wrote: I'm not sure, i will have to check tomorrow when i get to work. How do you get sofeware updates? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chris Carruba chris.carr...@... wrote: It means you need a higher software version RSS What version are you using? Best Regards, Chris Carruba Co-Admin irc.spidernet.org CompuTec Data Systems Custom Written Software, not all software is created equal! Networking, Forensic Data Recovery From: Randy rwrodger...@... To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, May 16, 2010 7:50:46 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] mrs2000 I'm trying to program a mrs2000 radio through the mic connector with ms dos, this is a trunk mounted radio with remote head, the code plug down loads to the pc but has a message that says the code plug is too new for this application. what does this mean? other employees say that they have programmed these radios in the past with this pc with dos.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF System Budget Example
Tait mobiles have had it for years. Don't know about portables. At 05:15 AM 05/15/10, you wrote:  Is this a feature found on both mobiles and portables? What about Kenwood and Harris (M/A-Com)? Chuck - Original Message - From: mailto:gare...@es.co.nzGareth Bennett To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF System Budget Example  Yep, most manufactures market a voting portable in one shape or another. Motorola Waris series, Some Icom, HYT, Tait and Vertex Standard (I developed the Voting software for the VX-820 series). Hope this helps Gareth Bennett RadioSystems P.O. Box 5202 Dunedin 9024 New Zealand DDI: (03) 489 1101 FAX: (03) 489 1151 MOB: (0224) 588 377 mailto:gare...@radsys.co.nzgare...@radsys.co.nz - Original Message - From: mailto:wb2...@roadrunner.comChuck Kelsey To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF System Budget Example  Thanks for the info. I wonder if any radios here in the U.S. have that feature available??? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: mailto:gare...@es.co.nzGareth Bennett To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF System Budget Example  Voting and talk around are two completely separate things, Think of voting as scanning that selects the best (usually Strongest) signal and forces the radio over to that channel, in this case the radio will be looking at two frequencies (Repeater Output, AND base/mobile output) and comparing them for best signal. obviously if two users are working closely in a basement for instance, it ensures seamless switching of the users portables, and eliminates untrained users selecting the wrong channel. Talk around or Talk around scanning just stops on the first channel with valid carrier (Or noise). Done right, Voting is seamless and invisible to the user. Gareth Bennett RadioSystems P.O. Box 5202 Dunedin 9024 New Zealand -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2874 - Release Date: 05/14/10 14:26:00
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF System Budget Example
Eric is right on the money here, with a few additions / comments. 1) Your warranty does not include wear and tear or physical damage on the radios, externals speakers or microphones (the last two are for mobiles more than handhelds). I've heard horror stories about customers wanting free replacements for some of the weirdest reasons. 2) Make sure that the end-users understand that the rechargeable batteries have a finite life. People that have rarely used cell phones and charge them every third or fourth or even fifth day have some unreasonable expectations about handhelds. They need to understand that they have a finite life and a finite number of charge/recharge cycles. They also need to understand that they can't just toss them into the desktop chargers and ignore them for nine months, then pull them out and expect then to have full life. An acquaintance is the office manager at a convalescent hospital and they have four Moto XTN handhelds in desktop chargers. One is used by the handyman, a second by the receptionist, the other two have never left the chargers. The receptionist pulls the radio out of the charger, uses it for 10-30 seconds and puts it back in. I wonder just how much life those radios will have when they are really needed. They also need to that they need to budget for new batteries periodically. Depending on the usage profile of the individual radio it could be as soon as 18 months or as long as 3 years. 3) Make sure that you understand the users expectations. You may be talking to the administrator (who has one set of expectations), but the guys that are going to actually use the radios may have totally different expectations. For example, one local organization has a campus site that the maintenance people had expectations that they would be able to use the radios from the basements of one buildings to the basement of any other building. The radios system turned out to be a trunking system and the nearest site was 15 miles away. The expectations of that group of users were not met. A repeater that needs to cover a area with a radius of less than 1500 feet doesn't need much power - but two big questions need to be asked: What is the building construction type and Do any of the buildings have basements? It may need the power to penetrate more than to cover an area. You may chose to lower the antenna so that the taller buildings are in the pattern rather than below it. Locally we have a hospital with the rent-a-cop repeater on the top of the highest building. The radio system works great on the far side of town, but doesn't cover worth a damn on the campus. Several people have tried to years to get the administrator to move the 60 watt repeater from the top of the tower building to the top of the 2 story building at the center of the campus. Years ago I saw an interesting solution to fully penetrating a downtown high-rise office building... Radiax in a stairwell, with a ground plane antenna on the roof to terminate it. The coverage was enough to saturate the building and also extend for several blocks around so that the rent-a-cops could walk to the nearest bar and grill for lunch. So make sure that you understand what is a wish list and what is an ACTUAL requirement. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:24 AM 05/14/10, you wrote: Although the 60 foot building is certainly tempting to use as the repeater location, you should first ensure that there isn't a bunch of HVAC equipment on the roof. The sheet-metal ducting and enclosures of rooftop HVAC installations are often prolific sources of passive intermodulation interference. Since radio equipment cannot be installed in an elevator machine/control room, you should plan on putting the repeater in an area where you have a cable pathway to the antenna that does not use the elevator hoistway. You should be able to purchase a used GR1225 or similar UHF and narrow-band capable repeater for less than $1,000. A new basic UHF antenna, mount, and feedline might run around $600 or so. Simple four-channel UHF portable radios, such as the Motorola CP200, will run you around $300 each, and the programming software and cable will run another $500 or so. If I were to buy this system new, I would look at a Motorola CDR700 desktop repeater, with two CDM750 radios inside, for about $2,800. The HVN9025 programming software and RIBless cable will run another $400 or so. Simple, four-channel radios in the Professional line, such as the HT750 with a NiMH battery, will run around $400 each, and the RIBless programming cable costs about $200. The advantage of using these Motorola radios is that the repeater and the portables use exactly the same programming software. I urge you to NOT mix and match a bunch of used radios of various brands, since they may not have compatible reverse-burst squelch-tail elimination formats. If you buy your portables new, you have all fresh batteries of the same part number, the same chargers, and a warranty.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] How About This One?
At 10:31 AM 05/11/10, you wrote: Not sure what this is either. The part numbers turn up nothing in google. Not sure if its even a Motorola product. Has no Moto stamping. Might be something else that someone may be familiar with. The number on the side thats etched in reads 15B84073D01. Thanks for your help! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmnhttp://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn How about a photo of the entire unit? All I'm seeing is a 3DB label. The 15 at the front of the part number translates to Housing, Cases and Covers (formed) according the table in the old parts book. See http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/numerical-parts-categories.html Given that the one port in the photo is 3db down from the input I can't see, I'll betcha it's a 2-receiver coupler - used when you have a dual receiver mobile (i.e. dispatch and tactical channels). I've also seen one in a voting receiver site cabinet where one one rooftop antenna fed two independent receivers on separate channels (feeding two wirelines back to the main voter location). But in that situation, personally, I would have used an amplified receiver splitter. And it's not trash - if you can stand the 3db loss it's a handy way to run two receivers on one antenna. Especially in a mobile environment where your performance is liable to be limited by the RF environment. Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: license-free radios
At 04:34 AM 05/01/10, you wrote: While this one is not a huge problem, it happens too. Visitors come to Las Vegas from a lot of foreign countries. People in the UK have whats called PMR radios. It's their FRS service. The radios are all simplex, 8 channels on 6.25Khz splinter channels starting at 446.000 Yep! if you scan those channels here you DO hear activity on them! For the record, most countries in EU have license-free radios in 3 frequency ranges: - LPD (Low Power Device), 10mW, 433.075 - 434.775, 68 channels in 25 kHz raster. Not so polular beacuse 10mW doesn't get far in cities - PMR (Public Mobile Radio), 500 mW, 446.000-446.100, 8 channels in 12.5 kHz raster: 1 446.00625 2 446.01875 3 446.03125 4 446.04375 5 446.05625 6 446.06875 7 446.08125 8 446.09375 These radios generally have PL support. Note that in EU, the 70cm band is 430.440 MHz so it is out of our bands here. These things are VERY popular - recently bought 2 radios for $35 together with charger and NiMh cells! - Digital PMR, 500 mW, 446.100-446.200, This is like the analog PMR but uses digital voice (this is what ICOM developed D-STAR for) Note that the American FRS/GMRS radios are simply illegal here, as these frequencies were used by law enforcement till recently (so not a good choice even to chance it). You indeed might want to take this into account when setting up repeater frequencies. Hope this helps, Geert Jan PE1HZG Sounds like 446.01-446.200 is a good place to put Dstar or P25 repeater outputs, or point-to-point 9600 baud packet links... Just out of curiosity what are the USA FRS and GMRS frequencies used for now? (you said until recently...) Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] New GE files on repeater-builder.com
As I mentioned on Tuesday the 27 on the repeater-builder yahoogroup I received a CD in the mail from Eric WB6FLY with 35 PDF files on it. The most recent batch I uploaded to the web site are 18 LBI files, mostly of MVP and Exec/Exec II hardware. All are full-width scans of excellent quality. Thanks to Eric Lemmon WB6FLY for scanning them. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New Micor files on repeater-builder.com
At 04:43 AM 04/28/10, you wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@... wrote: I've also been promised a DVD with a complete 1st-to-last issue of 73 magazine, and another of Ham Radio (i.e. hr magazine). No, I'm not going to put them up for download, but there are a few issues from each that are worth posting once repeater-builder gets copyright permission. Mike, Since you brought up posting old publications I was wondering if anyone had any copies of The Cronicals of 76. As I recall they were done by some early repeater builders in the 60's in 6 land. They usually had technical and sometimes funny articles. Wayne, WA5LUY At one point in time I actually had an archive copy of the original manuscript in my hands... I was over at WA6KLAs house and my Motrac was on his bench Neil commented see that box on top of the file cabinet? as he pointed at a box the size of a single ream of copier paper Open it and start reading. An hour later I had read the whole thing, and my Motrac was singing a healthy tune... (I didn't have a spectrum analyzer then, and the radio was throwing a spur on 147.765 when I keyed down on 146.46... all it took was a 5 degree twist on a particular multiplier slug, but a picture tube certainly helps find which one...) Anyway, supposedly the original got mailed off to Mike Vand Den Branden for publication, one archive copy ended up with Neil, another with Ken Sessions. I lost track of Ken after he left 73. Unless it got pitched his copy is still out there somewhere. As I understand it when Neil moved from Los Angeles to Portland his copy was in one of the 8 or so file cabinets he took with him along with his collection of Moto / GE / RCA / Dumont / Fairchild / Comco / etc manuals. If you can find someone with a set of both FM Magazine and FM Bulletin you'd have a compleat a set as anyone is going to have. And if anyone has a set and wouldn't mind scanning them... well... we certainly have the server space. The Chronicles is a piece of FM history that really should not be lost... along with It Happened In Chocaga. I'm still a little pissed at my mom, and she's been gone for over 25 years... I worked one summer at the Xerox RD building in Pasadena and had a 8x10 color photo of the Puffin project team (the first really good color laser printer). I was one of the summer interns. She was housecleaning and pitched a bunch of stuff. That photo was in one of the boxes - along with my Teletype model 14, 15 and 33 repair manuals. Mike
[Repeater-Builder] New Micor files on repeater-builder.com
I received a CD in the mail from Eric WB6FLY with 35 PDF files on it. All will be uploaded to repeater builder over the next several days. At the moment it takes hand editing the web pages to add new content. I've also been promised a DVD with a complete 1st-to-last issue of 73 magazine, and another of Ham Radio (i.e. hr magazine). No, I'm not going to put them up for download, but there are a few issues from each that are worth posting once repeater-builder gets copyright permission. Unfortunately until I find regular work, my computer time does not have a predictable schedule as I take work when I can get it - and I'm on call to two different companies 24*7. Anybody know anyone in the southern california area that needs a really good full time junior engineer / senior tech, LMR tech, network engineer or 3rd teir desktop support geek? Or junior tech writer? Anyway, last night I added the Micor Station Control and Applications manual (the non-RF side of the Micor station), the Micor UHF station manual (the RF side of the UHF Micro station), and the Community Repeater supplement and the Micor PURC Control and Applications manual. In the queue is: ht600-brochure.pdf p200-brochure.pdf radius-mobile-brochure.pdf syntor_x9000e-brochure.pdf lbi-30032j.pdf lbi-30060h.pdf lbi-30147f.pdf lbi-30151e.pdf lbi-30152d.pdf lbi-30163j.pdf lbi-30164d.pdf lbi-30393b.pdf lbi-30394a.pdf lbi-30395d.pdf lbi-30858a.pdf lbi-31118b.pdf lbi-31128b.pdf lbi-32636.pdf lbi-32772a.pdf lbi-32792r.pdf lbi-32793.pdf micor-base-station-accessories-multiple-tone-pl-options-68p81106e30-b.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-6881061e50-c.pdf which consists of msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 1 - Installation and Description.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 2 - Station Maintenance.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 3 - Receiver.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 4 - Transmitter.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 5 - Power Supplies.pdf msr2000-vhf-manual-Part 6 - Accessories.pdf syntor-x9000-vhf-manual-68p80102w05-o.pdf syntor-x9000-vhf-uhf-supplement-68p80100w94-o.pdf uhf-msy-community-repeater-manual-68p81056a35-c.pdf Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MTR2000 CTCSS
At 07:37 AM 04/26/10, you wrote: I am brand new to this group. I am setting up a MTR2000 with an ARCOM RC210 controller. All is going well until I get to the CTCSS encode/decode. How do you set this up? There is a pin on the MTR called Rx Un-squelched. Is that where I should get the CTCSS audio out from the MTR? Then what? Thanks Stan Did you see this? http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/mtr2k/mtr-index.html Especially this - which specifically addresses your question... http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/mtr2k/mtr-interfacing/mtr2000-interfacing.html Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] AC buzz on VHF
At 07:23 AM 04/26/10, you wrote: Hello all, I am in the process of putting up a 2M repeater on what I would consider a pretty vacant site. There is only one other machine (70cm Repeater) currently out there. My concern is with an AC (60Hz) buzz that comes across on the VHF band. It doesn't have a signal to it that will key uip a radio, but when you receive an actuall signal you can here it. We have heard this on both handhelds and mobiles. This site is unique as it is a duel tower with old (unused)Microwave panels and drums on the bridge at the top of the two towers. The microwave equipment is no longer hooked up. We have had the power company totally unhook the power to the site and the buzz was still present. The nearest high voltage lines are about 1.5 to 2 miles away. You can not hear the buzz on any AM reciever. Does anybody have a clue as to what this could be and what we could to do prevent it? We have some thoughts on the grounding of the guy wire being a cause but we are unsure of that. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks Wade KC0MLT The way I'm reading this is that you are hearing an AC buzz (60hz) on a FM receiver listening to ANY VHF frequency at a site that has only one UHF repeater, and it's there even when the AC feeder to the site is totally dead, right? Look for a arcing insulator on a power pole. And it might be a rural cross-country high tension tower that is MILES away from any pavement. I had one of those a number of year ago, and it took using an AM receiver on the highest frequency we could monitor (initially the aircraft AM band. We got an initial bearing at the repeater site, and it pointed into a national forest !!! We went to other sites several miles away with the intent of getting cross bearings and couldn't hear it. So we fell back to plan B ... A friend was a pilot bit we could not figure out how to get a directional antenna onto an airplane, and we quickly figured out that the one airplane that had a loop antenna wasn't going to cut it... first, it was a twin and not only was the plane rental out of sight, but out pilot wasn't multi-rated, plus we couldn't afford to feed the twin radial engines. So we fell back to plan C. Look at this photo - it's somethign like what we used... http://www.ultralightnews.ca/sunfun02/images/lilbreeze.jpg We mounted a VHF beam under the fuselage.. The pilot (a ham) started at about 1500 feet over the repeater site and on an idle aircraft channel, then flew a circle to get an initial bearing, then flew towards the noise. By the way, the real initial bearing was about 20 degrees off of what we had from ground level at the repeater site. The noise peaked over a power line over 7 miles from the site the source but could have been any one of two dozen towers. He then switched to a PRO-43 handheld scanner set to AM and pretuned to the top of it's coverage range) and shielded so it was directional. The scanner was in a piece of plastic pipe lined with foil and grounded to the chassis. The tube was duct-taped to the ultralight frame and pointed downwards at about 30 degrees. Crude, but you could point it like a bazooka and get a noise peak. He was able to ID the individual power tower by flying over the power line until the noise peaked, then turning away and coming back at it from right angles to it and flying over each individual tower until he found which tower had that same peak. He bombed the ground near the particular tower with a bag of flour, then flew the access road to where it met the highway and noted where that was (anybody remember Sky King flour bombing from the Songbird? that's where he got the idea). All during this time he was in contact with us, the chase crew. We drove to the maintenance road access gate, drove to the tower, and could HEAR the arcing and zapping above us - no electronics needed ! We copied the tower ID number - and didn't take any chances, we used both pencil and paper and a 35mm camera! (Southern California Edison has a 10-character ID number on each tower) and reported it. SCE had WA6FQG (now SK) as their in-house RFI guy since the 1960s... and for many years he had a tech session at every ARRL Southwestern Division convention... one of us had his business card from one of those sessions. A couple of weeks later we met FQG and his tower crew at the gate and followed them in, and watched while they changed the insulator. Problem solved. As I re-read what I've written above, it sounds like it took one flight - it didn't - it took three Saturdays across eight weeks as we had scheduling problems with the ultralight, the pilot, and we had to figure out the mounting for the 2m beam, and we had to build the bazooka tube for the scanner. And the overall attitude was SAFETY - we were not going to duct-tape a beam to the airplane, and we couldn't (and wouldn't) drill any holes. The keys to finding power line interference: 1) A directional AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Attn: Eric Lemmon
At 12:06 PM 04/19/10, you wrote: Hi Eric - I found a note that you replied to through a Google search regarding a GE MASTR II Exec. Someone was curious about a package number, and they needed info on the Comb number which you provided. I have a similar unit and I was wondering if I could have a copy of the COMB number breakdown sheet that you used, if you have one in PDF form? The comb number again is DVR15MS. Hall Electronics (My principle source of GE Nomenclature sheets) did not have one on this product line. Basically put, its a GE MASTR II Exec UHF Mobile with a VHF Second Receiver. Thanks for your help and time! :-) John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 GE calls it a mobile repeater, but it's really a handheld extender. It is designed to couple a handheld radio into an existing mobile radio. A google search on DVR15MS comes back with 3 hits, the first of which is very relevant. Look here http://www.mail-archive.com/repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com/msg44246.html Unfortunately we do not have most of the applicable LBIs in PDF form. If any readers of this list happen to have a clean and complete original hard copy of one or more of those LBIs, please contact repeater-builder. For future reference, Go to www.repeater-builder.com, then click on General Electric / Ericsson. Use the in-page jump to get to Exec II Info. The last line is significant. Or use the in-page jump to get to Technical Info, LBIs Manuals Click on The Mastr list of LBIs Scroll down to the Product Code Index Files Click on PC82. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola R-1013A sinad meter manual posted to the files section
At 03:53 PM 04/14/10, you wrote: I have just posted a copy of this manual to the files section. Given that the file space at this group is limited, I will leave the manual here for a few days and then remove it. There is a request for it on the Repeater Builder web site, but I was unable to get any response from the folks there. Hopefully one of them will grab it. HTH and 73 John KC0G It's been up on the Motorola page since mid-March. I added it to the test equipment page just recently. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 220 link equipment
At 08:16 AM 04/12/10, you wrote: I'm making plans to link my 2-meter repeater to a 220 mhz hub repeater. What type of transceiver, radios, etc is best for a 220 link ? Thanks ! One big question is what's your duty cycle going to be? Another is what is your potential desense going to be? Back before we lost 220-222 one system in an area that used in-high and out-low on UHF was going to use a couple of low end channels as inbound link frequencies until he did the math... There was no way he could make a 250w system near 441.750 live with a receiver near 220.800. He ended up using 900 Mhz for the links. After we lost 220-221 he was happy he had gone that route. It would be interesting to do a survey of 220-222 and see just how used it is. It might be worth filing the FCC paperwork to get it back. Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Radius P50
At 10:46 AM 04/09/10, you wrote: Sorry, bursting your bubble was truly not my intent. I suffer from occasional CRS :-) Seriously though lookin for a handheld with 4 channels to do 2 meters for a friend in a home. If you come across somethin(cheap, cheap, real cheap) let me know. The state is paying for his care. He got hit by a driver w/ no insurance and no assets to attach. He gets around pretty well though, no bedpans or cute nurses have to hold his antenna for him. :-) In my experience, anything cheap, cheap, real cheap ends up being fragile or of limited usability or both. If you can afford $70 then look at ebay item 160385922879 Yes, a 16-channel VHF MT1000 in your hands for $50 plus a battery (or you can re-cell the battery yourself). Or 300415916872 puts one in your hands for $70 including a battery. The MT is much more durable than most of the HTs out there, and no more hassle to program than any other Moto radio. You program the transmit frequency, transmit PL tone/DPL code, receive frequency, receive PL tone/DPL code all as separate fields on each of 16 channels. Maximum versatility. See http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/genesis/genesis-index.html The only mod I do is that I add an AC power on/off switch to the chargers. The stock configuration has no AC power switch and the internal 24v DC supply runs 24/7. Disclaimer: I have no relation to the sellers, or to the particular radios. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Problems reaching the RB website sigh
Do you know which photo in which article? Mike WA6ILQ At 11:53 AM 04/08/10, you wrote: According to the why page: Malicious software is hosted on 1 domain(s), including imgdownloads.com/. Sounds like its angry because of a picture in an article is hosted there. On a related note our 8e6 web filter here at the shop 8e6 also classifies imgdownloads as malicious/virus
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A
A = under 25mhz... the first I ever saw was a carrier current in-plant paging system at around 60KHz. B=25-50, usually 30-50 but I've seen a few radios in the 26mhz range. C=66-88, originally 72-76Mhz D=132-174, originally 136-172, but some product lines were limited to 150.8-172 or 174 E=395-525, originally 406-420 and 450-470. F=800 and 900MHz I don't know what they are using for 700mhz. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:07 AM 04/08/10, you wrote: Good suggestion, I might try that. I was under the impression that the part number starting with TLF was indicative of an 800MHz part. Now Im gonna need to try to confirm whether its 800 or UHF. :) John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: DCFluX dcf...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A They appear to be tripler / 2W amplifier sections from the Micor station. Possibly UHF. If its like the 2W UHF version you can disconnect and sweep the filter that is attached to the lid with a spectrum analyzer and that will tell you what frequency it is for. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:23 AM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure if the pics will show up on the Group List, but here goes. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A On 4/7/2010 4:31 PM, DCFluX wrote: Lets get some pictures Well, TLF would indicate 800 MHz... On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:12 PM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.comwrote: Eric, No results as the Parts Department says they're obsolete. Duh tell me something I dont know. I was not able to get any info on the remote chassis, and two triplers that I have. TLF1053A and TLF1332A. Sorry I could not report better news. I will just keep scavaging unless someone else on the RB list has a similar model and can share what they know... Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A
I never said Micor, John, you did a nice job of jumping to conclusions. The comment thread diverged to a generic discussion of part number prefixes, and I said A (as in TLA-) was under 25mhz and then I said that the first I ever saw was a carrier current tone-and-voice in-plant paging system at around 60KHz. To be complete, the RF sections inside the HF SSB Micom radios are also A series part numbers. I saw the carrier current system in the late 1960s or early 1970s. It was a B30something built in the early 1950s, housed in a black crackle finish rack cabinet with forced air cooling for the forest of tubes, a bank of over 90 large copper tone reeds, and multiple stepper switches for tone selection and lots of plug-in relays, and some plug-in-timer relays. The final looked like push-pull 6L6s. It was tied to the in-plant phone system (which was rotary, naturally) as an extension, and the operation was simple, and really cute. You'd dial extension 247 and it would ring one full ring, plus a little more (adjusted with the screwdriver adjust on an Agstat pneumatic timer) then answer. You'd dial the pager number using the rotary dial on your in-plant phone, and you'd hear the steppers follow the dialing (i.e. dial the first digit and you'd hear clunk, dial the second digit and hear clunk-ching). Then you'd hear the two audio tones corresponding to that pager number, then you'd hear a 2175 Hz tone (yet another reed) for about a half-second, then a click. At that point you had 9-10 seconds (another adjustable time delay relay) to speak your message, then you'd hang up (or it would hang up on you). These days you could do the whole thing in a box the size of a japanese multiband mobile, including the RF. One Atmel CPU and lots of code... Mike WA6ILQ At 02:03 PM 04/08/10, you wrote: A Micor for carrier current paging at about 60 KHz?? never heard of such a thing. Please tell more??? -- Original Message -- Received: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 12:12:04 PM PDT From: Mike Morris WA6ILQ wa6...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A A = under 25mhz... the first I ever saw was a carrier current in-plant paging system at around 60KHz. B=25-50, usually 30-50 but I've seen a few radios in the 26mhz range. C=66-88, originally 72-76Mhz D=132-174, originally 136-172, but some product lines were limited to 150.8-172 or 174 E=395-525, originally 406-420 and 450-470. F=800 and 900MHz I don't know what they are using for 700mhz. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:07 AM 04/08/10, you wrote: Good suggestion, I might try that. I was under the impression that the part number starting with TLF was indicative of an 800MHz part. Now Im gonna need to try to confirm whether its 800 or UHF. :) John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: DCFluX dcf...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A They appear to be tripler / 2W amplifier sections from the Micor station. Possibly UHF. If its like the 2W UHF version you can disconnect and sweep the filter that is attached to the lid with a spectrum analyzer and that will tell you what frequency it is for. On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 8:23 AM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.com wrote: Not sure if the pics will show up on the Group List, but here goes. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: wd8chl wd8...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:42 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Micor Part TCN1383A On 4/7/2010 4:31 PM, DCFluX wrote: Lets get some pictures Well, TLF would indicate 800 MHz... On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 1:12 PM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.comwrote: Eric, No results as the Parts Department says they're obsolete. Duh tell me something I dont know. I was not able to get any info on the remote chassis, and two triplers that I have. TLF1053A and TLF1332A. Sorry I could not report better news. I will just keep scavaging unless someone else on the RB list has a similar model and can share what they know... Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: MSR 2000 to 220 conversion?
I saw one several years ago - the guy started with a MSR base station that had been toasted after the antenna was struck by lightning (i.e. toasted the PA deck and the receiver front end transistor). He converted the receiver and exciter to 220, and I don't have the conversion information (if I did there would be a 220 Mitrek / 220 MSR conversion article). The technique is the same as a Mitrek mobile since the MSR receiver and exciter are essentially each a half of a Mitrek main board. The MSR PA deck heat sink was stripped and three 220MHz power bricks bolted to it. The first one took the exciter output and amplified it enough to drive a Wilkinson power divider, which drove two bricks. He used teflon circuit board and etched the divider tuned lines onto it. The two bricks drove a Wilkinson divider in reverse (i.e. a combiner) which drove the RF output jack. There was a shared receive antenna (three separate 220 systems used it) at 100 feet and a dedicated transmit antenna at about 40 feet. There was a single 220 MHz cavity between the exciter and the PA deck, and I don't know if it was to clean up the exciter or for some other reason (perhaps notching out a bit of grunge on the receiver input?). The modified unit was re-labeled as a C73 1/2 GRB - that was an inside joke as Motos model number definition system used a 3 for high band and a 4 for UHF, so a 3 1/2 had to be 220 Mhz. The converted base station played on 220 for years and ran totally solid. It was connected to one port of an RC850 with a 2m and 440 remote base on another port. I lost track of the unit when the owner passed away and a couple of months later it evaporated from the building. So somewhere out there is a 220mhz MSR2000. Mike WA6ILQ At 08:43 PM 04/05/10, you wrote: If it can be done with a VHF MSR I would like to know, since I have two of them sitting around doing nothing. ;) --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, WA2RJP jlang...@... wrote: Has anyone attempted or succeeded in converting a VHF MSR2000 to 220? I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if someone already has done or tried. tnx, Jim
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxtrac Channel Control
As far as I know the early Maxtrac did not implement Channel Steering (Motos' name for binary channel selection). You needed to use a late Maxtrac (more precisely one with the late logic board), a Radius LRA series or a GM300 to get that feature, and then you had to do some very careful programming of the radio to get 4 bits of channel steering, a RUS pin, and a transmit PL encoder on/off pin. Be careful what you program into your remote base even if you are the only one at a site. I found out the hard way that 147.51 takes out a repeater with a 442.525 input (do the math). If you have a busy site it gets even worse. Radios with plastic cases (i.e. leaky synthesizers) have gotten a few friends in hot water with various site managers. Remember that something that passes spec for type acceptance can still leak enough to be heard in an adjacent rack. Mike WA6ILQ At 11:04 PM 03/25/10, you wrote: Hello everyone, Wondering if anyone has been able to implement a Motorola Maxtrac as a frequency agile remote base on a repeater. What I would like to do is have a 16 channel VHF mobile hooked to our repeater, and be able to select a channel at will. I'm sure it can be done, i'm just overlooking something here. Our controller has a 4 pin hex output that I think could do the necessary stuff to make it work, just not sure about how it needs hooked to the radio. Has anyone done something similiar to this? I was looking at NO6B's RBI, and that would fit the bill, just wondering if I could make it work with our controller (MCC RC-100) or would I have to get a different controller (CAT or LinkCom)? Thanks all! Steve KD8BIW KD8BIW/R 224.580 N8IHI/R 147.105 W3YXS/R 146.745 KD8JBF/R 444.325 Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Squelch crash on a MSR2000
At 06:10 PM 03/23/10, you wrote: At 3/23/2010 03:05, you wrote: Are you aware of the old GE and RCA technique that was given the derogatory name of chicken burst ?? It's how everybody avoided a patent infringement lawsuit from Moto Legal in the 60s and 70s. I never heard a G.E. radio do that (drop tone before dropping TX). You never listened to a Mastr-Pro or a Prog? I have both MVP (Versatone, which respond to G.E. reverse burst) Mastr Pro RXs (don't respond to reverse burst) uplink RXs in my system, so I added a delay to my Mastr II uplink TX in order to get reverse burst followed by about half a second of unmodulated carrier before TX drop. So you _are_ familiar with the Mastr-Pro receiver needing chicken burst... and therefore the Mastr-Pro transmitter had to send it. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Squelch crash on a MSR2000
At 01:15 AM 03/23/10, you wrote: Hello again. I have a UHF MSR2000 up and running now. Most of my radios have the reverse burst in them. But just about all ham grade radios do not. Is there a way to get rid of the squelch crash from the repeater when a non commercial grade radio is used? Repeater is stock, and would like to try and keep it that way. Hoping there is maybe a jumper setting or a trick that someone might know. Single PL tone card in the repeater, card number trn073app on back, trn5073 on front. thanks Encoding reverse burst ifs a function of the transmitter, responding to it requires a receiver that has a tone decoder that is designed to respond to it. Many electronic decoders never see the reverse burst and continue to decode the phase-delayed tone until it goes away (when the transmitter PTT drops). An electronic decoder has to be specifically designed to respond to reverse burst (and almost all of the current crop are microprocessor based... detecting and responding to a phase shift is easy to do in software) Are you aware of the old GE and RCA technique that was given the derogatory name of chicken burst ?? It's how everybody avoided a patent infringement lawsuit from Moto Legal in the 60s and 70s. This article may be of interest... A Historical and Technical Overview of Tone Squelch Systems - A primer on tone systems, with a little on digital systems. http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/ctcss/ctcss-overview.html Chicken Burst is when you shut the tone off, then drop the PTT a quarter second or so later. The decode reed coasts to a stop instead of slamming to a stop with reverse burst. It works with any decoder, be it reed or electronic, except the Alinco DR-series design (which takes as much as two seconds to mute the audio after the tone goes away) and the Yaesu VX1 that is broken from the beginning (it functions like a tone burst decoder). Years ago I had a UHF Micor repeater that came out of IMTS service (i.e. it started out life as a carrier squelch station). I had added a stock PL decoder board to it but the transmitter had no factory PL encoder. We wired the exciter to a leftover TS32 that was being used as an encoder only. The PTT line from the controller was cabled to a 200ms time delay that was implemented with a 555 chip. When the controller PTT was activated the timer activated the TS32 and the transmitter PTT line immediately, when it was released the TS32 shut off and it delayed the PTT for about 200ms. This gave dead carrier for 200ms after the tone encoder went away. Everybody was happy. No squelch tails anywhere. Hope the above description helps. Your implementation may vary. You may chose to use a timer in the repeater controller, or you may decide to build a small timer like I did. The Scom 7K has a audio gate circuit that is specifically designed to mute the PL encoder... you could route your encoder audio out of the station, through the 7K and back into the station and to the transmitter and everything else is set up in the controller programming... from looking at the schematics and programming options you'd swear that the designer had chicken burst from the repeater transmitter in mind... I've not looked at the MSR schematics in several months, but you might be able to modify the encoder on the PL card to turn off the tone completely instead of going into reverse burst (on the TRN5075A you'd ground the base of Q8 to shut off the tone), then change the cap that holds the transmitter on to a larger value (probably on the station control card). Mike WA6ILQ PS - have your users pressure the Kenwood, Icom and Yaesu reps at every hamfest ... have each user tell the reps in their own words that the factory should start using the commercial tone encode/decode circuits and firmware code that they are using in their commercial radio product lines and have been for years. It would be nice to get reverse burst, tone, DPL, and split tones/codes in ham rigs.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] RF Fuses
An article on upgrading a piece of equipment with one of those connectors would be a real good idea for the test equipment page. And if anyone has a couple of photos of that Cushman accessory that would be good to add. In fact, I need one of those for my CE-5. Mike WA6ILQ At 07:39 PM 03/20/10, you wrote: If I remember correctly, Cushman had a box that went in front of their communications monitors. This was a small cast metal box with BNC connectors attached. Inside was a small pigtail fuse between the connectors. The fuse was rated at 1/32 Amp. 73 Glenn WB4UIV At 06:36 PM 3/20/2010, you wrote: Any ideas where I can buy RF fuses, either the actual fuse element or the combination holder/fuse say in a BNC configuration, to portect the input of a spectrum analyzer or service monitor? Dave WB2FTX Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Have a ZR340 programming manual
The gentleman posted his message a couple of places, I've sent him three emails and have received no response. Mike At 07:47 AM 03/13/10, you wrote: That manual should be Publication Number 6880905Z90, which is NLA from Motorola Parts. Please e-mail it direct to mycall at verizon dot net, and I'll get it posted. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of fgeraci Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:38 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Have a ZR340 programming manual I can contribute. It's a .pdf Please send E-mail to me to confirm. Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] OT: If you are a Windows XP or 2000 user you might find this interesting...
The hard drive manufacturers are changing the native drive sector size... industry wide. Since XP and 2000 are frozen (no more major updates) they are going to take a performance hit. See http://www.dailytech.com/HDD+Makers+Adopt+Improved+Storage+Format+Windows+XP+Users+Beware/article17869.htm A lot of the comments at the bottom go off on tangents, but the article at the top is worth reading. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SPECTRA SERVICE MANUAL
At 08:56 PM 03/09/10, you wrote: HEY MEMBERS, DOES ANY MEMBERS HAS A COMPLETE SERVICE MANUAL OF SPECTRA,I HAVE SOMETHING TO TROUBLE HERE IN MY OLD SPECTRA,THANKS BOB HERE IN THE PHILS. Saying Spectra is like saying Ford. There are a lot of other things that need to be asked. There are a lot of different manuals depending on what band, power level and vintage, plus if you had any options like siren, encryption, direct entry keyboard etc. Please post your complete model number, and if present, the ID number. If you have any external plug-in options (siren, DEK) please mention that. Then look here http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/spectra/manualss.html Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Voter Lamps Don't Work
At 06:36 PM 03/05/10, you wrote: Hey folks, I just got an old gray GE voter working with a half dozen Midlands. The system is voting ok, but none of the lamps work. I mean NONE of them work. The receiving, the voted and the fail lamps are all DEAD on all cards. I find it hard to believe that all have completely blown (but stranger things have happened). Any idea what could take them all out? Loss of a voltage across all cards? Thanks, Jared The docs for both the black front and the grey front voters can be downloaded as PDF files from www.repeater-builder.com Look for the LBI page off of the GE page. It's been over 8 years since I touched a grey voter, but I think they run the lamps off of a separate voltage buss than the audio circuitry and there MAY be a separate lamp fuse. Download the LBI and look at the power supply card schematic and the backplane schematic. Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF MSR2000 exciter tune up?
I have to ask - Did you follow the coil preset chart in the guide on repeater-builder? http://www.repeater-builder.com/msr2000/pdfs/msr2000-uhf-tx-align.pdf Are you sure the channel element is putting out a clean signal? Is the multiplier chain putting out an appropriate level on the test set? Mike At 08:47 PM 03/05/10, you wrote: Hello all. I have a UHF msr2000 exciter that does not want to play nice. It was working on its original frequency of 461.100 and drove the PA at 100 watts. I am trying to move it to 440.300 I have followed the steps in the Moto manual for peak and dip. peak and dip. done this about 6 times. The exciter only wants to put out about .1 mw of power. What am I missing? Is there a component change that I must do? Is the exciter not going to play? The exciter is a TLE5312 Thanks in advance. -Jason Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Looking for MSR2000 elements on GMRS
Before a local group spends money having International Crystal build up a pair of elements for a replacement GMRS repeater (replacing a pair of back to back Maxtracs) I though I'd see if I can put some money into a hams hands... There have got to be a few sets of GMRS elements sitting on shelves after a GMRS repeater got sold to a ham who moved it to 440... If anyone has good repeater elements in 462 575 (transmit) and 467.575 (receive) please let me know. Second choice is 462.675 / 467.675 Mike WA6iLQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 800 MHz spectras
At 07:19 PM 03/01/10, you wrote: Hello to the group- I have a chance to bid on some spectras offered at a local auction. The model number is D35FGA5JB5AK- which makes them 30 watt, 800 Mhz trunked units. Question---are they worth considering for the 900 band or are not even worth a second look. Thanks for any input. John K7FPM True 900 MHz radios are common enough. I'd pass on them unless they are remote mount and you can get them for really really cheap (like one to two dollars a piece) AND if the cables are't cut. It seems that every removal monkey just cuts the cable in half and rips it out from each end. Personally, I'd love to find a cable and B5 head kit for a remote mount Spectra. I know a couple more folks that would love to convert a front mount Spectra to a remote mount. With cars getting smaller and smaller, there are probably a lot more folks out there that would like to as well. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Suggestions for signal generator?
At 09:13 AM 02/27/10, you wrote: Anyone have a suggestion for a simple 50 ohm signal generator? I have a number of VHF Phelps Dodge duplexers and several UHF flat pack duplexers I'd like to be able to test prior to sale and possibly rough tune for a few projects duing the waning weeks of winter. I realize a network analyzer would be the best case option for doing this sort of work; followed by possibly a service monitor and a spectrum analyzer with tracking generator. I currently have an HP spectrum analyzer available at work; unfortunately it did not come equiped with a tracking generator. It does have a current calibration; I'm guessing I could use it to determine the exact output from a signal generator and subsequently the insertion loss from the duplexer. Look in the Spectrum Analyzer manual and see if it mentions a model of generator that can be cabled to it and used a slaved sweep generator. That will give you the functionality of a tracking generator. The go looking for that model number, perhaps on ebay, Twenty years ago I saw a rube goldgerg kluge of a 141T Spectrum Analyzer and a RF generator that made up a tracking generator system, and used to tune duplexers and front ends. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] OT - McMartin receiver
Does anyone have a manual for a McMartin TR-66A SCA Multiplex Receiver. A whole manual would be nice, a schematic should do... Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: New to 900mhz,, PL or DPL?
One caution - The 900MHz Motorola GTX series radios have a firmware bug in them and will NOT do tone reverse burst at all. The DCS side of the radio is just fine. This is documented on the GTX pages at repeater-builder. Since every 900MHz user radio that is in use started out as a commercial 2-way they all have both PL and DPL, so the choice of PL tone or DPL code and the choice of which tone or which code is up to the person who sets up the system. Since the GTX is a popular an entry-level radio you will find a LOT of repeaters use DPL, and for what it's worth in some areas DPL code 411 is considered an open code - i.e. if the system uses 411 then it's an open system. As to tone selection criteria, the CTCSS overview article (which also contains some historical info) at repeater-builder has some very cogent points - like you DON'T want to use 136.5 Hz or 131.8 Hz on any channel that you might want to run DPL on in the future. See http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/ctcss/ctcss-overview.html There is also a chart of legal DPL codes at the end. Too many systems are out there that use nonstandard codes. Mike WA6ILQ At 06:35 AM 02/25/10, you wrote: I think this comes down to personal preference. I know a lot of folks who will argue that one or the other is better but they both do what they are supposed to do. Some say there are a lot of falsing issues with PL and that DPL doesn't false. In actual use, I have heard both false. Some say there are interference problems with certain tones. This can be true in some situations. DPL will give you more choices since there are more DPL codes than PL tones. As far as I know, any modern radio designed originally for 900 MHz commercial use will do either well. I personally prefer PL because there are more after market devices for that format and it is easier to implement in some situations such as with phase modulated exciters. But it is still just my personal preference. Your Maxtrac should handle either format. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, kq7dx kq...@... wrote: Hello to the group, I have had a couple of really nice hams try to explain this to me but I am not getting it. Which is better. Most importantly which is better in a metropolitan city with lots of RFI and noise on the bands. Particularly 900mhz. I have seen mostly PL and just a few DPL listings so I am not sure that it is RFI motivated for the selection. So which is best for a repeater application. The receiver for the repeater will be a 800mhz Maxtrac converted to 902mhz. Thank you for your help, and if this was covered on another post please let me know. I am on a dial up and it is hard to research. 73s scott Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Pair of GM300 as a repeater
At 11:23 AM 02/25/10, you wrote: Steve, So the reason for turning down the power is for PA protection or RF suppression? lh PA protection. One caution (from the Introductory Information about the MaxTrac, Radius, GM300, etc radios page at repeater-builder... Remember that the MaxTrac, M-series, Radius and GM300 are MOBILE radios, made with minimal heat sinks, and while they can be used quite readily as a low-to-medium performance repeater receiver, or as a link receiver, you can NOT use it as a repeater transmitter or as a link transmitter without due consideration to the normal mobile radio limitations on RF power and duty cycle. ...and As a 10% to 15% duty cycle radio the MaxTrac, Radius and GM300 are designed to transmit for no more than 10 to 15 seconds out of each 100 seconds. ...and... It's one thing to use a GR300 (or similar) in a shopping mall environment to talk to the rent a cops or to tell housekeeping to clean up little Johnny's spilled ice cream cone, but you want something with a higher duty cycle as your primary repeater. By the way... I've seen a pair of the radios used as a repeater and there was more desense due to the cabling that came with the Moto duplexer kit (the RF cables from the radios to the duplexer) than due to radio case leakage. Once the cheap loose-weave braid cabling was replaced with the good stuff (RG400 and good connectors) all the measurable desense went away. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Connect Controller to EM Interface
At 09:09 PM 02/07/10, you wrote: Hello All, Has anyone connected a repeater controller such as a Arcom RC-210 or a Link-Comm RLC Series to an EM interface to link two or more sites together? Not those specific controllers, but I have done others. I am looking for ideas and any pit falls that you may have had in the setup and configuration. The EM hardware can be configured in more ways that you can imagine. Almost any combination of -48v and ground can be used on the I/O leads. Sometimes you can configure it to meet your needs, sometimes you can't. On one system I was able to set it up for a floating signal pulled to ground for the M lead (PTT) with a open collector transistor, and a floating signal pulled to ground for the E lead (COR). On another the E lead fed -48 on idle and ground for active so I had to use a reed relay for the COR pin interface. The M lead was at -48 when idle and I had to pull it to ground to make it active, so I used a reed relay on the repeater controller PTT with the contacts feeding the M Lead. So sit down with the manual for the equipment and study, study and take notes. As an aside, the major local power utility here in SoCal is Southern California Edison, and they are supportive of the 220 repeaters put up by the in-house ham club - EARN - Edison Amateur Radio Network (W6SCE). They have a linked 220 system that uses spare channels on the corporate microwave for the interlinks. See www.w6sce.org and click on Frequencies on the top margin. And no, Musick is not misspelled, that's the actual name of a radio site. Thanks, Joe - WA7JAW Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] second radio to MASTR II base
At 04:39 PM 02/06/10, you wrote: Can one hook a second transeiver to a MII repeater without a controller. I dont care if it is active all the time. I just want to know how to hook one up to the back plane. I also have the SQ operated relay installed. What exactly do you want to do? Two receivers? Two transmitters? One having priority over the other? Mix the receivers, have both transmitters on at the same time, or what? You requirements will determine if you can scratch your itch with the functionality that is in the basic radio. Mike
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
At 12:47 PM 01/30/10, you wrote: Hi Mike, We're using a Kenwood TKR-720. The price was right (we had it on hand), it's relatively compact, does what we need it to. Older technology, with the front panel controller, etc. You know of a way to reduce the current?Did remove the + from the audio amp got it down to 300ma, but also removed a voltage for the xmit control - could fix, but I think it would require the removal of the logic board to get at the traces. I'll have to dig up a manual and look at the schematics... Understand about the generator, but that's one more 'messy' thing to check on our monthly checks, bad gas, gummy gas, carb problems, fuel leaks, etc. I know they have spark arrestors, but I can see us putting this thing on the side of a hill, and having some wild hog come along knock it over, putting the exhaust right on flammable grass, etc! Understand about that... The situation where we used a small battery and a generator was for a portable repeater and the repeater was going to be manned... we packed it in, set it up, and one person camped for the duration, then we rode in, took it down and packed out. As such having that person watch the digital voltmeter and the transmit running time meter and run the generator for a half hour every couple of hours wasn't a problem. That was an interesting article on a build it yourself alternator/charging system. Yep. That's why I posted it. Might give someone an idea on how to use some leftover junque. (junk=trash junque=high grade useful trash) Just remember that the ripple reduction depends on the battery - one with a high internal ESR will not be very effective. A friend built a similar unit based on the June 1997 QST article and ended up adding alternator whine filters to the design (no, he didn't have one bad diode in the alternator). That battery tender looks like it might fill the bill.. I'll check it out. They are not cheap, but they seem to work. There is a chain of stores called Batteries Plus and there may be one in your area. They stock them. Some True Value and Ace hardware stores also stock them. Thanks again, Tim Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: GLB (Eprom, Prom and Diode Matrix IDer's)
At 08:58 PM 01/29/10, you wrote: Re: GLB (Eprom, Prom and Diode Matrix IDer's) Can anyone burn a 2716 Prom chip for a GLB ID-1 Ide'er? Not a standard hex file. have some docs. Actually it's is a standard hex file. It's just created a bit weirdly. There seems to be two different themes followed by a number of Eprom ID units. One method is what below is interestingly called the bit stream method and the other is more of a programming table look-up method. The former seems to be much more common for the popular Eprom Models/Brands. Yep. No diode/no bit in the EPROM for a space, a programmed bit for a dit, three bits in sequence for a dah. The binary pattern in it contains the call sign as a 1-bit stream. You could have multiple call signs as data bit 0 was one call sign, data bit 1 was another, data bit 2 was a third, etc. I forget if a 1 programmed bit was tone off or tone on, but location 0 had to be programmed with the tone off. Just read the old chip, map the bits on a piece of graph paper, and it will all fall into place. In most cases the pattern will thankfully fall into place. Just map out what you want as a new call sign (or several call signs) as a string of bits, then map them as two digit hex characters, then program the PROM accordingly. If he/you can't find a programming source, I and a number of other group members can do it easily enough. While Hex Workshop makes it a lot easier, I've used Notepad to do the editing and the calculator in windows (in Scientific mode) to do the binary to hex (and back) conversions. Hex Workshiop is available at http://www.bpsoft.com Hex Workshop is very nice... I've only seen one of these IDers, and it was wired with a couple of extra mods... 1) it had a 5vDC wall wart transformer so that if the AC power failed it would change from one call sign to another that had a trailing /DC at the end of the ID sequence 2) the switch on the rack door changed the ID to a trailing /DO. There are address tricks to change the message when something happens. Easy enough to do in Eprom, Prom and Diode Matrix ID boards. Yep. My first exposure to a diode programmed IDer was the K2OAW article in the Feb 1973 issue of 73 magazine. As far as I know it was a totally unique design - 16 bits, no diode was a dah, a diode to one buss was a dit, to another buss was a space. I modified the design to add a trailing (space)(dit) to the end on a power failure. When you come right down to it, the GLB IDer was a good product 20-25 years ago, but a $20 ID-O-Matic kit that you can program with a computer serial port is a helluva lot less hassle these days (and it supports two messages - you can connect a 5vDC wall wart or a door open switch if you want to). See http://www.hamgadgets.com/product_info.php?products_id=64 And there is no fancy software - hyperterminal will do. While I agree... I will also make a case for going through the hassle of reprogramming the original unit if there's not a lot of involved grief in getting it done. You will learn quite a bit if you do even the most simple home-work. You learn more (and it sticks longer) by doing than by reading or listening. The problem with many people not getting much in-depth experience in electronics is because the cost of doing x-task is often so much less with newer replacement electronics than the time most people would consider putting into repairing or refurbishing an older circuit. You lose valuable exposure and hands on experience. Absolutely. I have learned more from making the effort of reverse engineering a design than from most books. As an example I learned more about real-time programming from a discarded listing of the Univac 1108 operating system kernel (a 6 inch high stack of line printer paper back in 1975) than I did in three classes. In this case, reprogramming the Eprom using the resources of the group members might actually be less than replacing the unit. cheers, s. ps: I'd like to have a diagram of the ID'er if it's available anywhere. I called a friend that had one in a GE Progress line based repeater, and as far as I know it's still in the back of his garage. If the rack is still there, then the manual is in a 3-ring binder that is in the bottom of the rack. I'll know in a few days, and if it's there I'll borrow it. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Battery system for portable repeater (non solar)
At 09:24 PM 01/29/10, you wrote: I'll look into the AGM bats - the rptr draws about 450 mA in RX, and about 4A in TX. What do you have in that portable repeater that draws almost half an amp in receive? Getting a Pelican case for the repeater cables, but not sure how to make the battery transportable.. Wheels?? I'd take a heavy duty trash cart, torch off the axle and the 4 inch wheels, move the axle up on the frame so that some 12-inch or 14-inch wheels fit, then put the battery box on that. I suppose if it's 'really' sealed, then I wouldn't have to worry about leakage of the electrolyte - could use a case for it the charger. I was involved in a similar but different situation a few years ago. I was looking at transporting eight 12v 18ah batteries, a GR300 repeater, four 10-foot sections of antenna mast, the antenna itself and some coax, about 12 miles, all by horseback. Why the 18ah batteries? They were available, and new. One of the club members needed to re-battery four UPS units where he worked. Each used two of those batteries in series. He had planned the re-batterying such that he'd buy the eight a few days previous to the race, charge them, use them over the weekend as a single parallel bank of almost 150ah, then install them in the UPSs the week after the race. Then it was pointed out that a single battery (to smooth the juice), a small Honda generator (the current model is here - see http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetailsection=P2GGmodelname=EU1000Imodelid=EU1000IAN and some gasoline (at 6 pounds to the gallon) weighs a lot less for the same delivered amp-hours, and has charging ability as a bonus. This one is lots cheaper, won't last as long, and is more fuel hungry (you get what you pay for): http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=66619 For a roll-your-own version, this might be interesting... http://www.thefoodguys.com/homemadepower.htm Any recommendations about appropriate 'sure-fire' chargers for one of these? Ask the guys that have been doing long-life batteries, and professional charging systems for over a century... the phone company. Unless I'm mistaken the Eagle Rock central office here in Los Angeles is still using the 1939 glass Edison cell battery plant. I could put together something for float charging, Look at the Battery Tender products (made by Deltran) for maintenance charging. A while back I installed one under the hood of a friends car that gets used maybe once every 4 to 6 months. See http://batterytender.com/automotive/waterproof-800-usa-western-hemisphere.html There is probably something better out there but that scratched the owners itch. but there will also be a need for 'real' charging as well. As I said, ask a retired telco plant engineer for some ideas. Thanks again, Tim Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GLB
At 12:47 PM 01/29/10, you wrote: Can anyone burn a 2716 Prom chip for a GLB ID-1 Ide'er? Not a standard hex file. have some docs. Thanks Fred wa2...@arrl.net Actually it's is a standard hex file. It's just created a bit weirdly. The binary pattern in it contains the call sign as a 1-bit stream. You could have multiple call signs as data bit 0 was one call sign, data bit 1 was another, data bit 2 was a third, etc. I forget if a 1 programmed bit was tone off or tone on, but location 0 had to be programmed with the tone off. Just read the old chip, map the bits on a piece of graph paper, and it will all fall into place. Just map out what you want as a new call sign (or several call signs) as a string of bits, then map them as two digit hex characters, then program the PROM accordingly. While Hex Workshop makes it a lot easier, I've used Notepad to do the editing and the calculator in windows (in Scientific mode) to do the binary to hex (and back) conversions. Hex Workshiop is available at http://www.bpsoft.com I've only seen one of these IDers, and it was wired with a couple of extra mods... 1) it had a 5vDC wall wart transformer so that if the AC power failed it would change from one call sign to another that had a trailing /DC at the end of the ID sequence 2) the switch on the rack door changed the ID to a trailing /DO. When you come right down to it, the GLB IDer was a good product 20-25 years ago, but a $20 ID-O-Matic kit that you can program with a computer serial port is a helluva lot less hassle these days (and it supports two messages - you can connect a 5vDC wall wart or a door open switch if you want to). See http://www.hamgadgets.com/product_info.php?products_id=64 And there is no fancy software - hyperterminal will do. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Hamtronics COR-3 to TS-64
At 11:20 AM 01/23/10, skipp025 skipp...@yahoo.com wrote: na4it na...@... wrote: It is connected to 2 Mitreks, with COS and PTT both positive voltage for action. There are a lot of different mods and connection points possible in the Mitrek, so we'd have to know a bit more about how the radios are connected. I've seen three or four different Mitrek Conversions posted at various web sites and all are different variations... Don't be scarred by active high or active low TX keying or COS. It only takes a simple (properly connected) fet or transistor circuit to invert the logic to the converse. The positive voltage on the COS is easily changed with one transistor. The positive voltage on the PTT is an option in the original Mitrek design and if the radio is stock, is easily changed with one jumper in the control cable connector. For normal ground-for-PTT just apply +12vDC to pin 12, and then pin 13 is PTT (to ground). For +12-for-PTT, you would ground pin 13 and apply the +12 to pin 12. All of this is covered on the Mitrek page at repeater-builder. Go to www.repeater-builder.com, click on Motorola, then on Mitrek, then scroll down to the article titled Interfacing the Mitrek mobile radio to your repeater controller, in the PTT section. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Astron info needed
Recently I received an email asking me if I had any info on the Astron model 1212 or 1212-18 switching regulated converters. Well, none of the local usual suspects have anything and Astron themselves is being unresponsive. Does any of the list members have a schematic ? Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 220 repeater
Has Alinco come out with a fix for the PL decoder yet? Mike At 05:32 AM 01/02/10, you wrote: Two Alinco 220 mobiles work very well also. - Original Message - From: mailto:rwhitete...@verizon.netw5rdw To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 7:18 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 220 repeater If you are interested in building it youself, a modified Clegg FM-76 or Midland 13-509 transceiver (xtal controlled rigs) can be modified very easily into a 220 repeater. I have done a number of repeaters like this, the first one in the late 1970's, into a very nice 10 watt repeater with a receiver that can't be beat as far as sensitivity is concerned. Very simple and reliable. Numerous articles on this modification are available on the web. Also available is the Maggiore repeaters line from http://www.hiprorepeaters.comhttp://www.hiprorepeaters.com I have one of these on 224.18 MHz in Dallas and it has been trouble free many, many years. I have up at 350 ft. a dB224JJ antenna (no longer made) from dB Products (out of business, but a nice antenna). 73, Roger White W5RDW Murphy, Texas --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Dan Blasberg ka8...@... wrote: All right folks, For those that run a 220 repeater, what are you running as far as the machine itself? A local group is looking to put a 220 MHz repeater on the air and would like some ideas. Thanks, Dan KA8YPY
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ACC RC-85 QUESTION.
At 05:03 PM 01/01/10, you wrote: Did anyone have any problems after the new year? Our controller will not take any codes to set the time and the date. also some of the voice messages are not playing right. Thanks, DEAN W8YSU YNG, OHIO W8QLY REPEATER You've been bitten by a failed attempt at copy protection that shows up on year rollover. The repair steps are: 1) unlock the controller 2) set the date to todays date but 28 years in the past. (why 28 ? 7 days in a week, and 4 years in a leap year cycle. This way the day / date relationship stays the same) 3) lock the controller 4) enter 9213528835 on your DTMF pad. The controller will respond with OK This last step must be done with the controller locked. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] R100 stays keyed up
I'd start at http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/r100/r100-index.html and download the service manual. Start at the transmitter PTT line and see if it's pulled low. If it is, backtrack on the schematic / transmitter board and see what's doing it. If it's not, then I'd look at the codeplug. Mike WA6ILQ At 08:52 AM 12/30/09, you wrote: Hi all, I have a Motorola R100 2-10w UHF repeater on the bench. It was working fine (pulled from of working service) until a frequency programming change (only 25 kHz). Now it stays keyed unless I change the repeater disable switch on the board. It does pass receiver audio normally but the repeater never drops the carrier. In fact it keys up immediately upon power on. I disconnected the receiver to make sure it nothing was causing the transmitter to trigger. I am not too familiar with troubleshooting these repeaters as they have always worked well in the past. Am I looking at a codeplug corruption issue or is it a coincidental hardware issue. Any tips or sharing of common failures appreciated. Thanks. - Rob Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Motorola Desktrac UHF Repeater
At 08:19 PM 12/24/09, N2OBS wucherer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Group Merry Christmas, I would like to interface my ULI (Echolink) to my uhf repeater. Can anyone assist preforming this delicate surgery? 73 and Happy Holidays. Start with the Desktrac familiarization article at repeater-builder. Click on Motorola, then Maxtrac, then read that page (since the Desktrac repeater has two Maxtracs inside it's worth being familiar with the basic radio). At the bottom is the link to the Desktrac article, which contains basic interfacing info and Desktrac programming. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Old chips available...
In going through some junk I found an old ISA memory board with 18 socketed ICs on it - part number D4164C-3 made by NEC Another ISA board has 9 KM41256B-15 and 18 of the KM4164B-15 chip. If I remember correctly these chips fit older PCs and Apple IIs If anyone wants them, let me know and make an offer. If not they go to eBay. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] More Zetron
At 06:41 AM 12/03/09, you wrote: Zetron Gurus: Does anyone out there know if the difference between a Model 38 and a Model 38A is software only, or was there a hardware change (beyond EPROM, RAM -- stuff involving the software) also? 73 DE N0MJS -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206 I believe that there were internal hardware changes... In the same boat, does anybody have any docs on a Model 45? Not the 45B, the plain 45 ? Right now it's a bookend for a stack of documentation. Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Audio Popping after Capacitor replacement
At 03:38 PM 11/25/09, you wrote: Hi Mike, Thanks for the info. Yes, I've cleaned it up good... I use a q-tip with a baking soda/water combo, then wick solder on the pad till it flows... sometimes gotta scrape a shiny spot first. Then soldersuck the pad clean up with wick. Then another qtip with lacquer thinner (contains MEK) - does great job of cleaning the flux. Nice sparkly clean. The dried capacitor poop occasionally seeps under an adjacent component (capillary action) . Sometimes you have to lift an adjacent resistor or two to get access to all of it. The smell of the solder on the corroded pad reminds me of some solder I have that has a water soluble rosin. Kinda smells like fish. It's probably the audio amp, but it's not objectionable enough to make me want to change it out. It's amazing how many dead radios are coming back to life after re-capping! I agree! From the emails that WA1MIK (the author of the recapping article) and I have received over 70% of the problems in surplus Spectras are cap problems. Of course some of the problems were traces that had disappeared! Which is why Will Martin KA6LSD of Echo Communications wrote (in the recapping article) There have been cases where the corrosion has eaten away so much of the pads that I have had to use leaded components and solder to other locations on the board to restore the functionality. I saw one radio that Will fixed where he soldered one cap lead to one of the two original pads but the other lead had no pad... so he left the lead long, sleeved it and ran it a few inches over the components on the board and soldered it to another component. The guy is a genius at Spectras. He even found the manufacturer that made the audio module for Moto and buys them direct for a lot less than Moto sells them for. Things like that allow him to be more reasonable on repair pricing. I was over at his shop a while back and he had radios (awaiting service) on the shelf from a dozen 2-way shops and police agency shops in 7 states and 2 European countries - radios they couldn't fix. The outgoing shelf had radios from 4 states plus Canada and Mexico. The first thing he does is recap the radio. Then he starts working on the problems the customer complained about. Thanks, Tim Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Audio Popping after Capacitor replacement
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tahrens301 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 2:43 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Spectra Audio Popping after Capacitor replacement Hi Folks, I've been working on these Spectras, and so far, the capacitors have done the trick. But on this last radio, the speaker pops whenever the audio path is open (unsquelched, signal, mode change, etc). Just curious if there's something I've missed. Thanks, Tim The popping is due to a DC voltage change at the input to the speaker amp. Leaky caps are the most common cause of this, but if you've changed the caps and not cleaned up the cap residue on the board the crud can be conductive and essentially shunt the new cap with a resistor. So cleaning the board of all leftover residue may help. I've been told the residue contains boric acid, I'm not a chemist, does anybody know what a good neutralizer is for that ? If I knew, I'd use that, then some MEK (which you can find in cans in the paint section at Home Depot). Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MASTER II TO RC-210
There is nothing special about interfacing the RC-210 controller to a Mastr II. It has audio inputs and outputs, COR, CTCSS Decode and PTT lines just like any other controller. Get a piece of paper and draw out the radio connector, and look at the pinout and the signal voltages. Some tips: 1) You are going to want to do the Chuck Kelsey WB2EDV mod to the 10v card. 2) You are going to want to read the John Holden N7IQV article on the power supply. 3) you are going to want to join the Mastr II email list http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/mastr.html 4) If you don't have it already you are going to want to start a system documentation binder, starting with a full set of LBIs for your station. Start with the Product Code 67 file and work your way down the lists. Search the web for Mastr II and repeater and read all the various interfacing articles. It won't matter if it's an ACC, a Link Comm (RLC series), NHRC or Scom brand controller - you will see that in every single case they end up with a full duplex base station cabled to a repeater controller. It's getting that full duplex station operational that's half the battle, and the adaptation of signals from and to the station and the repeater controller that's the other half. You will end up with a custom cable between the controller and the station chassis, with maybe a signal buffer or two (in case a signal is high impedance and can't be loaded down), or maybe a voltage level converter or a signal inverter somewhere. There is some GE station interfacing information on the www.repeater-builder.com web site (yet). Want to write another article from a newbie point of view? It might help the next guy... The place I'd start is the three articles in the Mastr II station section - the first is titled Mastr II Station to Repeater Conversion by Don Woodward KD4APP , the second is Interfacing the Mastr II Station to an ACC 850 Repeater Controller from ACC, the third is SCOM 7K Controller Connections to Mastr II from Scom. I'd read all three, combine them into a master plan (with the Chuck Kelsey WB2EDV mod to the 10v card first), then proceed from there. Take lots of photos as you go, write it up into a mod article, and send it to repeater-builder. One guy sent me an email a few years ago and said that he learned enough from my Motorola Mitrek mobile Interfacing article http://www.repeater-builder.com/mitrek/mitrek-interfacing.html to find the right places in his Mastr II station, but that's taking my enamples, reversing them to theory, and then applying that theory. And besides, the Mitrek pair I set up was an intermittent duty point-to-point link, not a continuous duty repeater. Mike WA6ILQ At 06:16 PM 11/23/09, you wrote: Does anyone on this list have pictures or scematic of a VHF Master II hooked up to an ARCOM RC-210? We are starting to work on one for our Club Repeater and I am looking for some examples for reference. THANKS, DEAN W8YSU YNG, OHIO W8QLY REPEATER.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Wanted: Custom NWS Weather Alert SAME Audio
At 08:16 PM 11/22/09, you wrote: I'm building/testing a DIY weather receiver/decoder and could use a couple custom weather alerts to inject into my service monitor. I need the preamble/header code portion of the alert with a specific FIP and Event codes. Anybody aware of a software-based generator? Another option would be someone with a CAT SG-2000 willing to program and record a couple alerts. James K7ICU Dunno if they will scratch your itch, but there are three files in the YahooGroups files area of this group that sound relevant... They are named http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oM0KS1QXymgHoqPi0_480Ia0COZjGhnx5SEfAOaP3-v3aqdd5tntprH2lmMkuDz4fGSqe9hrKwuTGd_mCZ0/Required%20Monthly%20Test.mp3Required Monthly Test.mp3, http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oM0KS9Khr7IHoqPiEa5bIrG61WZDeLhyf2JHPAn0ftmNWnyKWFncqU9vqlvYFKLLNCmrOAGnip36RQr1xSs/Required%20Weekly%20Test.mp3Required Weekly Test.mp3 and http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oM0KS0w9KTAHoqPiyZBT0v9Q01KQ9_MoLZClryZvoYuDYlBXZo-x8sKoD93x5b1K5vZuJGKl2Jb-YxA9CfA/Tornado%20Warning.mp3Tornado Warning.mp3 Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola Spectra 900's
At 07:41 PM 11/22/09, you wrote: I think the Micor rx is a great idea. Unless they came from a 900 micor rptr, they probably were used in paging or linking service, making them the 5 khz variety, The IF xtals could be changed for the 2.5 khz modulation, but no flutter fighter or compandering available like the msf series. You can look at the 900 MHz Maxtrac schematics you can download from the R-B Maxtrac page and you will see that the Hear Clear module has a very simple pinout. You could grab one from a dead 900 Mhz Maxtrac and mount it on perfboard and put it in line with the Micor receiver audio. I know that there is a way to dissolve the epoxy in a potted module like the Hear Clear in the Maxtrac and therefore allow you to disassemble it to the point where you could reverse engineer it back to a schematic, I just don't know what the chemical process is... And, Mike, yes I have contemplated an article that would detail the procedure. The first unit I did took about a week out of my life and large fistful of hair. The key ingredient to making the spectra play rx on 902 is the software, it has to be hacked up so bad that it will not work on any standard or ham units. Repeater-Builder won't offer software for download. You would have to write that part as a how-to-patch article. The rx front end is the worst and most time consuming part because of it's tuning requirements. I can imagine. And after reading you qrz history, Mike, I plan to reincarnate as a butterfly so I may follow you as you enjoy life. As I mentioned on QRZ, my folks had the interesting lives.. I've had some fun, but compared to my dad my life is pretty dull. My mom has as many stories as my dad did, but I'm not going to tell any of them as most involve the behavior of patients or portray doctors as incompetent (one of her favorite lines was that doctors get to bury their mistakes, and don't even have to go to the funerals). On the other hand my dad used to comment that in the 1960s-1980s a 4x5 camera in your hand was a passport to anywhere. I watched him more then once get into areas he shouldn't have been in just by saying that he had to shoot a photo from a balcony, or from a roof, etc.. We are a long lived family - one sister lived to be over 100. His smoking killed him at age 74. If he was alive today and in reasonable health he'd still be shooting car photos for PM magazine or stomping through a foreign country for National Geographic, or... Maybe he'd get a phone call from Paramount Studios to be on a set at 5am to shoot continuity photos, then go over to the Press Club to kick back in the bar with a scotch on the rocks, shmoozing with the politicians. I still remember how he caused a 180 degree change in attitude in one TV newsman on the topic of gun control - from rabid anti-gun to one that lobbied for field newsmen to be able to carry concealed. In the evenings or on the weekends he'd be writing his life story, two-finger typing on a Selectric with a cuppa joe on the desk next to him. Personally, at the moment I'm scrambling as I try to find a full time job - and that's not easy when you are over 50 and have only a 2-year degree (my dad fell off his camera platform in my junior year at college. I had to go to work to support the family. I never got back to school). I've been programming computers since 1974 (in assembly code, Fortran, C and newer languages such as Perl and Java). I wrote a real-time CP/M replacement that at one point was compiling a Fortran program, (yes, there was a Fortran for CP/M), playing Tic-Tac-Toe on the console and running a 7-port repeater controller all at the same time. And doing it with 256K of RAM on a microprocessor that in theory only addresses 64K, and the memory mapping unit I wirewrapped could have handled a megabyte. I've been doing network support since the clients were Apple IIs and XTs and the circuit was a single twisted pair, at 1mb (look up Omninet). I worked on the prototype system for 128 and 512MB Token Ring, but that project was killed when 100mb Ethernet came out. And I've been working on 2-way radios since 1965. My signature is on the back of the Voyager 6 spacecraft antenna dish, along with every other person that worked on the project (interstellar graffiti?). Likewise on the nameplates on the side of both Viking landers on Mars. Personnel people have little check boxes on their evaluation forms and if you don't have that little check box marked Y then you can't do the job - regardless of the fact that you have DONE that job, and excelled at it. It doesn't matter, if each little check box isn't marked Y then your resume never gets to the hiring manager - it gets tossed in the round file instead. I was one of 12 people that kept 86 locations on the network in the southern half of California for a Fortune 5 company - 9,000 users and over 300 servers, but last week a different companies HR weenie told me that if I didn't have a certificate from
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: setting up a repeater for dispatch
The direct link to the article is here: http://www.officer.com/print/Law-Enforcement-Technology/Redefining-interoperability/1$48108 Mike WA6ILQ At 08:37 AM 11/23/09, you wrote: Actually it was the August issue and is available online, just search by law enforcement technology. Maybe this won't be sent twice. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Jed Barton j...@... wrote: Hey guys, Alright, got an interesting one ehre. I've got a fire department who has an existing repeater on the air. They want to have their dispatchers actually dispatching through the internet, sending tones, ETC. I know it can be done, the question is how? This is a very unique thing, they have several dispatcher in other parts of the state and they want them to have remote access to dispatch. Right now they have a vhf repeater that simulcasts on to a small 800 analog trunk system. Any ideas? Thanks, Jed Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola Spectra 900's
At 10:22 AM 11/22/09, you wrote: Been there done that seven years ago...it is a liiittle more than the three items listed that need to be done For the NUC RX idea, I have been thinking about doing a rx for that purpose, however, my concern is, will all that work have pay dirt... If some one can show the 902 rx front end is truly usable in high rf environment, I will work with them to...git-er-done... What's wrong with a Moto Aux Receiver (a Micor) on 900? They exist, work REAL well, have independent COR (channel busy) and PL decode lines, etc. The Aux Receiver chassis has the receiver board vertical, the MSF Link Receiver chassis has it horizontal to take up less rack space. I currently have two 900 spectras in a sales catalog bag with wide duplexer and controller to operate on any one of the eighty channels 902-903 and 927-928. All that's needed is twelve volts and antenna. Want to do an article on it? Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Automated spam.
First of all, this group has, at this moment, 4781 members, and it's been around for a good amount over 10 years. Other replies in the text. Please read. At 09:49 PM 11/20/09, you wrote: Well, you see, it's like this... The group setting is currently Membership does not require approval. Yes, anyone can join. And the fact that this group exists is open to the world. There are other groups that aren't that way. For example, the team that put together the new ARRL Manual did it with a closed, private Yahoogroup. If you didn't know the group existed AND if you were not invited, you would never know they were there, no matter how many searches you did, and how you did them. Another example was a yahoogroup that was used to coordinate a friends wedding several months ago. It was for a couple that met in a freshman class at Cal Tech, yet waited until both had their PHDs to get married (and it was a geek themed wedding). The whole thing was planned via a yahoogroup (which has since been deleted). The group existence was public, but you had to be invited to join. One of the tips I gave them was that if you don't want to pay though the nose for the wedding bouquet just say its for your little sisters birthday party, and the price goes way down. In fact that trick works for anything to do with a wedding - you say its for a wedding the price goes up, tell them its for a birthday and the price is much more reasonable. Now then, many, MANY automated spambots are designed to take advantage of just his setting on just this system. They troll the groups, some even just generate random names for groups, since most any combination of numbers and letters can be used for a group name, subscribe using the e-mail command (-subscribe), get the welcome message and blast out their opinion, and in most cases unsubscribe so there is no trace of the originator. By the time you complain, they've hit a thousand other groups. True - but if all pending memberships have to be approved then there are no postings. And I can't tell you how many pending memberships the moderators have spiked. I've done three just this week. When you comment on the post, you are commenting to nothing, nobody, anywhere... An automated machine just doing it's thing, usually untraceable with no interest in you, the group, topic, nothing. True The remedy is to simply turn off the automated subscription setting, It's not on, and hasn't been on for years. The person that posed that message has been a full member for over a year. this takes about as long as it does for the spambot to subscribe and blast the group, then disappear forever, about 15 seconds. Change this setting and the only comments you'll ever get are from members, which can be controlled. Right now the group is open to anything, anywhere. On that, you are wrong. The ability to post requires approval. This group has been configured so all posted messages from new members require approval. As I type this, I see Email attachments are distributed, not archived, which means if just ONE person, spambot, whatever, sends a virus, all 4,781 of us will get it delivered to us. This also applies to porn ads, KP, male member enhancers et cetera, they send it, we get it. The big IF - the person has to be a full member to post. If you can't post, you can't send a message, with or without an atachment. I see in the description If you are a Yahoo Spammer you'll not be able to post because all new members are moderated. This takes a few more steps out of ones way to control, so easy to let spammers slip through, harder to control with a group this size as each membership has to be manually changed online after the fact. True. With 4781 members, that means that a moderator had to promote each and every member to full membership. This is how yahoo and this group works. If the moderators are not familiar with locking down the group, contact me, I run several and can walk you through it. Kurt This group has been in a locked down state since day one. In all that time I'd be willing to bet that less than 25 spams have gotten through. The member that posted that message has been a full list member since November 9th of 2008. He had just as much right to post as anybody else. On the other hand you ( Kurt ) have been a member for less than 10 days. YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW THIS GROUP IS RUN. The person that posted the message has been dealt with - he's on full moderation until we find out what has happened. It could be something as simple as someone else used his laptop / desktop. It's happened before. This thread is ended. Now. - Original Message - From: hfarrenkopf hfarrenk...@yahoo.ca What is this crap on here? Please ban the originator. Delusional stuff is not welcomed by me! There are no gawds BTW! Everybody is welcome to their own opinion. Mike WA6ILQ moderator
Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Astron RM-20A-BB Question
The BB option is an overpriced pair of big diodes, and a resetting of the voltage pot. See the Astron page at www.repeater-builder.com At 07:08 PM 11/20/09, you wrote: I have a RM-50. It has a 1/4 stud, by 1 1/4. What is the BB option on your Astron? I await your reply. 73's,JimKh6jkg. -Original Message- From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) mwbese...@cox.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com; amateur-repa...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 1:35 am Subject: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Astron RM-20A-BB Question Sorry for the Off-Topic post, but I know that this group is a great resource for questions like this. I'm thinking of purchasing an Astron RM-20A-BB to consolidate my power source for all the ancillary equipment at my site (WX radio, link radio, APRS radio, APRS tracker, etc), but I'd like to know what the power output terminal are. I suspect they're 1/4 studs, but would like to know for sure. Thanks in advance es 73, Mike WM4B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Uniden Key
The key photos from both Scott Zimmerman and Kevin Valentino are up on the keys Page The name cast into the key blank looks like Takigen (it's a Japanese radio, do you really expect something from Chicago Lock ?), and I can't make out the third digit of the key number - it's 02(something)0. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] FS: 1960's Vintage FM magazines
As I keep posting, we have a 100gb server allocation, and are using less than 10% of it (9.82 gb to be precise). If anybody wants to scan stuff, and send me PDFs, I'll create a new directory on repeater-builder and post them. Mike WA6ILQ At 02:32 PM 11/14/09 -0800, you wrote: I have only a very few of the old RPT and FM magazines, but they were sure interesting reading when we were first getting started in FM and Repeaters. What a great resource they would be if they were scanned and available on-line somewhere! -Original Message- From: sjotrollet Sent: Nov 14, 2009 9:36 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] FS: 1960's Vintage FM magazines Following items from an estate. SK was deep into VHF/UHF and had 2 repeaters (2m 220). Retired PD radio tech. Total volume about a whiskey box and can be sent by media mail. Price $25 plus postage. No extra charge for packing. FM Magazine 81 copies of FM Magazine. From mid to late 1960's. Same format at the old 73 magazines. Some duplicates. Good condition FM Bulletin 52 copies of FM Bulletin magazine. From mid to late 1960's. Some duplicates. good condition. 73 Walt (N4GL)
[Repeater-Builder] OT - now I know where all of the older neat radios went....
Check the photos at http://www.qrz.com/db/w9evt Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: PGE Smart Meter Program
At 09:28 PM 11/11/09, you wrote: On the upside, haven't seen a massive computer system that worked 100% right yet... and I've worked on some with REALLY big budgets... so there'll be IT jobs galore after they figure out it doesn't work right -- all the time... :-) Perhaps a few RF-related jobs too, since that's really how they get the data 'round... same stuff as the ever-evil BPL fight... just for their data instead of yours... Nate WY0X Their data ? Try their subpoenable data See: http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20090906_Utilities__smart_meters_save_money__but_erode_privacy.html This is really worth reading. http://consumercal.blogspot.com/2009/09/emerging-privacy-threat-posed-by-smart.html As is this one. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1370731 http://dailycensored.com/2009/11/08/smart-meters-raise-privacy-concerns/ Smart gas and water meters are being installed as well as electrical. And don't forget, the consumer will eventually end up paying for these smart meters. And the smart meters may well work out to be far more expensive for consumers in the long run. What the media or fuel suppliers have failed to point out is that a 'Smart meter' can record the minute-by-minute or hour-by-hour consumption of the product consumed at any moment in time, or over any period of time. Why should the consumer worry, well for this reason. Multiple tariffs using a 'Smart meter' can be employed by a fuel supplier. Put simply a supplier could charge double the tariff say between 8am and 10am, normal tariff between 10am and 4pm, between 4pm and 8pm again twice the normal tariff, and finally lets say half tariff for 8pm to 8am the following morning. Above is all perfectly possible and only shows some of the possibilities the 'Smart meter' might bring. One thing is certain the suppliers will have endless opportunities to increase their profits while reducing costs... no wonder they want 'Smart meters'!! And what happens to privacy when the data gets hacked, or goes offshore for analysis at a processing center in India, Brazil, or the Philippines ? Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter...
At 06:34 PM 10/04/09, you wrote: I have one that I use every once in a while. It works well at determining the power usage of a repeater at a site. I don't want to give mine away, but I would lend it out to you. I will want it back, though. It weighs about 15 pounds, so shipping and the eventual return shipment may be more than he wants to spend. I appreciate the loan offer, both from you and from several others, but I think that he (or I) will want it around for making measurements in the future. I found mine at the dump. It is a 120VAC 15 Ampere, 60 cycle, 2-wire unit. I even got the box with it, and I put an AC cord and plug on the box. This evidently came off one of the old summer homes that are around the local lakes of Connecticut. Many of these summer homes were very small and sparse, no heat not running water, from the 1920's and up in time. Electricity was a luxury and they did have 15 Amp services. That's exactly what we need - a four-wire meter (120V in, neutral in, 120V out, neutral out) at anywhere from 15 to 60 amps. And I've seen one that looked like it had three wires (in out and neutral), but I never saw it in operation. Maybe a local electrician around your area may have run into something similar out where you are? This request came in saturday morning, I spent all day saturday on a deployment, and not many electricians are in their offices / shops on a sunday... I'll ask around during the week. 73, Joe, K1ike Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Announcements from a PC...
I've never used it, but friends of mine have had problems with Echostation hanging and having other Microsoft-type problems. Before you go making time and money investments into PC hardware please look at digital-voice-capable repeater controllers. There are several manufacturers that make digital-voice-capable repeater controllers - i.e. units that can play a digital tape recording in addition to messages assembled from the existing digital vocabulary. I'm more familiar with the Scom series of controllers, and in fact have a 5K, a 7K and a 7330 on line. The 7K has a darned good audio board (the Vyex DAB), but it does not have a DVR. The version 1.3 firmware for the 7330 (new as of September 4) supports the DVR hardware that can store up to 9.9 minutes of digital recordings. Plus it has it's own male voice (which sounds surprisingly good) and a large built-in vocabulary that does not take away from the 9.9 minutes. Mike WA6ILQ At 08:59 PM 10/04/09, you wrote: Thanks to all of you who responded. I knew there had to be something out there. This actually addressed another question I had earlier. I had wondered if there was any software that could act as a repeater controller. Seems as though this will act as a full-featured controller as well. Again, thanks! RR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, David Struebel wb2...@... wrote: Echostation? Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: ki4zji To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Announcements from a PC... Does anyone know of any software that would allow scheduled announcements (either recorded voice or synthesized) through a soundcard interface and remote radio? Thanks, Randy
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Micor and MSR module docs needed...
Does anyone have any docs on either of these two modules? I've had a couple of emailed inquiries, and none of the local suspects has a manual that shows it. Micor version: the TLN5745x (where x is the A or B) MSR2000 version : TRN5329x (ditto) As I understand it the two modules are identical except for the color of the end plate and the connector that goes into the card cage. Both of these are stand-alone 4-tone PL decoders that slide into the tone burst decoder slot. They are NOT the 4-tone cards that were part of the community repeater version of the station. My contact at Moto doesn't have anything except for numbers of a couple of SP manuals. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] OT - Safety Recall, Fluke clamp-on Ammeters and Model TL221, TL222 and TL224 test leads
One of my neighbors is a handyman and he just got a recall notice in the mail. Sometimes it makes sense to register your tools... I did some web research and here's the rest of the story. If you can forward this to the club newsletter editor it would be a good thing... = = = Clamp-On Ammeters: If you have a Fluke 333, 334, 335, 336 or 337 clamp-on ammeter, or know someone who does, then you need to read this: http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3475590_2026_ENG_B_W.PDF www.fluke.com/33Xrecall http://www.hvacr-tools.com/Fluke-Recall.pdf This covers about 52 thousand meters that measure 0 to 600 volts alternating current (VAC), 0 to 6000 volts direct current (VDC) and 0 to 400, 600 or 1000 amps alternating current. The plating on the rotary switch contacts is coming off and potentially shorting the switch wiper to ground. This is a life safety issue. Spread it around. Fluke is replacing these meters, no questions asked. = = = Test Leads: Model TL221, TL222 and TL224 test leads http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml04/04131.html Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter...
A ham I know is doing some research and needs to locate a spinning disk KWH meter, with socket, cheap or free... If he turns up something interesting it will end up as a repeater-builder article. He wrote: My concern is that the cabinet I had here last year measured at idle 1.5 amps at 120V (180VA) yet also only measured 43 Watts with the Kill-A-Watt meter. I am looking for another device to tell me what the electric company is actually seeing and billing. Might one of your connections have an extra single phase KWH meter in the junk box? I suspect he has a situation involving power factor. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] PL tone useage
At 10:24 AM 09/21/09, you wrote: Started doing some research. If you want to see a scary search go to the USPTO and look at all the words Motorola has trade marked over the years. It's almost the size of the new speak dictionary. The the term Private-Line was issued in 1976, but is no longer an active trade mark. Looks like it was canceled after 6 years and not renewed. Vibrasponder and Vibrasender were issued in 1955 but are also considered dead, not sure when they were canceled. Found these patents issued to Motorola that may be intresting: http://www.google.com/patents/download/SELECTIVE_CALLING_SYSTEM.pdf?id=hoFREBAJoutput=pdfsig=ACfU3U0ID3xNtKITrFOSjudbtZqbACKYVAsource=gbs_overview_rcad=0 http://www.google.com/patents/download/VIBRATING_REED_CONTROLLED.pdf?id=ioFREBAJoutput=pdfsig=ACfU3U2aiaRzmTCYYspbRZr9YGM8rKCNqQsource=gbs_overview_rcad=0 http://www.google.com/patents/download/SELECTIVE_SIGNALING_SYSTEM.pdf?id=VB5oEBAJoutput=pdfsig=ACfU3U191hc0-cyfTEjoNQ-q4STmizi1pAsource=gbs_overview_rcad=0 http://www.google.com/patents/download/SQUELCH_SYSTEM.pdf?id=5F5xEBAJoutput=pdfsig=ACfU3U0fn8ZYd0DxgmR-gwXzNImgpoZ82gsource=gbs_overview_rcad=0 Still couldn't find a list of PL tones in any of them so then I did a search on EIA PL Tones and found this page: http://www.geocities.com/euro446/ctcss.html It lists the EIA Group A tone set as: 67.0 77.0 88.5 100.0 107.2 114.8 123.0 131.8 141.3 151.4 162.2 173.8 186.2 203.5 218.1 233.6 250.3 Maybe this is the set you are looking for? Actually, no, but I appreciate the effort. From the draft article: The overall system is designed around a specific set of low frequency tones ranging from about 65 Hz to about 250 Hz. The oldest list that I am aware of (from November 1952) is ten tones: 100.0 cps, 110.9 cps, 123.0 cps, 136.5 cps, 151.4 cps, 167.9 cps, 186.2 cps, 206.5 cps, 229.1 cps and 254.1 cps, identical to tones 1Z through 0Z in the Motorola standard tone list. Over the years the list has been expanded - by 1965 Motorola was using 26 tones from 82.5 to 192.8 Hz, and by 1983 the MSF5000 station offered 42 tones in it's list. These days, and depending on which industry standard set you chose to use, there are 32, 37, 38, 41, 42, 47 or 50 tones available, and the U. S. Military has their own unique tone of 150.0 Hz that doesn't appear on any list of standard Land Mobile tones.
[Repeater-Builder] New articles
I've had a lot of support on my question about an old PL tone list, and several private emails back and forth. I'd like to thank those that helped, and invite comments from all. The article I was writing morphed into three articles: 1) A Historical and Technical Overview of Tone Squelch Systems - A primer on tone systems, with a little on digital systems. http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/ctcss/ctcss-overview.html 2) CTCSS doesn't fix anything! (It just hides it) http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/ctcss/ctcss-doesn-fix-anything.html 3) CTCSS tone numbers are useless ! This was written after I finished a local CERT class refresher, and a fireman said to always use the same FRS channel number and tone number within your team, and the team leader needed to have the info for the adjacent teams, or the team above and below in a multi-story building search. He was very surprised to know that the tone numbers vary between manufacturers. I had to prove it to him... I got to thinking about ham radios and this chart came to pass. http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/ctcss/ctcss-chart.html Comments on any of the above articles are welcome. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK
GE LBIs aren't going to help fix a Motorola Spectra. At 05:19 PM 09/17/09, you wrote: What is that? You can find most GE lbi's on repeaterbuilder. WA Brown - Original Message - From: Mike n8...@woh.rr.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LOW RF OUTPUT D43KXA7JA7BK Hi,ok guys here's one for ya. i have a D43KXA7JA7BK that has low rf output, at 10.5v i can get 15-20 watts out about 5-7 amps draw at 13-14v i get 5-7 watts out about 4 amps draw in rss rf power and current adj does nothing no output when keyed from rss also i have recaped and checked for bad solder joints its like something is braking down at the higher voltage sometimes it will kick up to 45watts for a sec. but drop right back to 5-7 watts maybe final transistor,driver,pre driver,??? Help !!! i have no manual,schamitc,no info gong at it blind.. a scan of pa manual schamitc ?? would be nice if any one can help. Thank you for reading N8RTN.MIKE Also any one have paper manual i can buy?+shipping..must be cheap as iam layed off work
[Repeater-Builder] Anybody have some REALLY old Moto manuals?
If so, I need a favor. The first implementation of PL used about 20 tones. The 32-tone standard list didn't come until later. Does anybody have a copy of that early tone list? It would have been somewhere in the 1950-1955 time frame. Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] msf5000 microphone
At 06:09 PM 09/12/09, you wrote: what microphone will work with msf5000? See http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msf/msf-index.html and look for the paragraph that starts with The HMN1001B microphone But are you sure you want a microphone? The MSF has no speaker and as such was designed to use a test handset. Using a microphone gives you no way to monitor the receiver. Since the MSF has a 6-wire headset / microphone / programming jack you can use a workaround to use a more common (and hence cheaper) Maxtrac microphone. I've seen a test jig made up of a 6-wire phone cord feeding a 8-pin Ethernet style jack that was wired to match the Maxtrac mic. The pinout for that microphone is here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/maxtrac/maxtrac-index.html The 8-pin baseboard style jack housing also had a DB-25 pigtail hanging out of it that connected to the RIB box for programming the station. See this article for info on the programming cable pinout: http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msf/msf-prog-cable.html The 8-pin baseboard style jack also had enough room in the housing for a 1/8 inch headphone jack, and you could plug a Radio Shack Model 277-1008 Mini Audio Amplifier (about $20) into it. Or instead of the Radio Shack amplified speaker you can build your own by taking a common mobile speaker and adding this circuit inside the housing: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/audioamp.html. If you used a volume control with a switch on it you could switch off the DC power to the speaker amplifier when you weren't at the station. Then cable the amplified speaker into the drawer; connect the audio input to the audio pins on the 6-pin cable, pick up +12vDC for the amplifier from any of several places in the drawer and have a full time speaker. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Diplex antenna installation using coaxial cable for 10M and 6 M
At 05:32 PM 09/11/09, Joe, K1ike wrote: The average coax cable of 1985 vintage probably had a velocity factor of 66%. If you didn't figure this into your calculations the coax would appear to be about 1/4 physical length, but would be an electrical 1/2 wavelength. Did you use a velocity factor in your calculations? Would it be possible to scan the Motorola document that you have and post it to the group? I've heard of it but I've never seen it. It's been on the repeater-builder website for several years, on the Antenna Systems page, in the Mobile section. It's about the 5th one up from the bottom. I've been thinking about setting one up, as a future project is to set up a mobile, either a low band Syntor-X9000 or a Maratrac, with some channels on Red Cross and the rest on amateur 6m. I may have to go to a screwdriver antenna as a 1mhz wide window for 6m may not be enough We currently have active 6m repeaters from 51.24 to 53.76 Mhz. See http://www.scrrba.org/BandPlans/51-54.pdf And local Red Cross uses 43.00, 45.92, 47.42, 47.46, 47.50, 47.54, 47.56, 47.58, 47.62, 47.66 and a few high band and UHF channels. The 47 MHz channels will be no problem in a 1 mhz wide dual-whip system, the 45.93 and 43.00 channel will be a problem. The radio isn't the problem it would have been when I still had Motracs in a Ford station wagon with . It's going to be interesting to make a low band mobile antenna work across all the channels. And then to make a 99-channel MT1000 do it as well. Low band rubber ducks make better blackjacks than antennas, but that's the only thing that isn't fragile. It may take two separate rubber ducks - one for Red Cross, one for 6m. Or a UHF handheld talking to/from UHF to low band mobile crossband repeater. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: IFR 1600S
The IFR1600S operators manual is up at www.repeater-builder.com along with a couple of relevant applications notes from Agilent that a ham from NASA/JPL sent me. Click on Test Equipment and then on Aeroflex / IFR. As long as I am discussing IFR, it would really help others if people would look around and see what they have that others might need. Or what they can give. Gary had no problems with donating something that he had that others needed (the 1600 manual). Have you done any mods or repairs to your IFR (or any other piece of gear for that matter) that someone might be interested in? Can you shoot a photo and describe it in an email? That's how repeater-builder articles get started. As far as photos, go, we're missing front and rear exterior photos of an IFR1000, 1100, 1200, 1600, and a COM120B. We have interior photos of an IFR500 courtesy of a gentleman in Australia, and we'd love to have interior photos of the rest of them. If you have the skin off your service monitor for any reason, how hard is it to shoot a half-dozen photos and email them to us? We've got a 100gb allocation on the web server and we aren't even using 10% of it. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:11 PM 08/30/09, you wrote: I sent it to Mike WA6ILQ for posting on the Repeater Builder Site, It's a really big file, you can get it there when he gets it posted. I couldn't find it again on the internet but had a copy on my system. Gary shibukiau wrote: Thanks for the comments Gary -- much appreciated!! Could you send me the link for the operators manual?? I don't have any info on the unit so I'm sort of flying blind trying to run this unit!! Thanks again for your help!! Lloyd VE3ERQ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Gary Hoff k7ney...@... wrote: I have a 1600S, have had it now for about 3 years. No trouble at all. I Love it.. The operators manual is available on the net in a PDF, however I got mine from the company I purchased the Monitor from in printed form. It's several hundred pages. Gary - K7NEY shibukiau wrote: I have a chance to acquire an IFR 1600S and would like some users reports on their experience relative to the instruments performance and reliability to help me make my decision! Are manuals available somewhere for these units other than from IFR?? Thanks for your help!! Lloyd VE3ERQ Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] What have I got?
The BBB is a unique situation. Moto used that suffix on three different radios. One was a all-tube base from the 50's/60s, The later was a 70s/80s design that was based on the Mocom-70 mobile radio. The third was a handheld marketed as the MT-500. Can you post an interior photo? A 2135 key will open either of the base stations. More details at http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/motorola-suffixes.html But all of the BBBs were crystal controlled. The tube base had plug-in crystals, the Mocom 70 based radio used channel elements (packaged oscillators with the crystals inside) as did the handheld. If you can't find someone with crystals or elements on your frequencies you are looking at having to order crystals. But to break it down, L43BBB3190DM L=tabletop base 4=RF power level, 30-40 watts 3=136-174 MHz, but in three bandsplits: 136-150, 150-162, 162-174. See below. BB = Model suffix. B=Base station 3=PL option 1=narrowband (5KHz) 90=4 frequency option D=hardware revision level M=shipping option As to what split, look for a TRD or TTD followed by 4 digits, or maybe four digits and one or two letters stamped on the chassis somewhere. Optionally follow the receive coax and if it plugs into a front end module look for a three-letter and 4-digit number with a letter or two at the end (like TLN4321A) but it may not be the specific letters TLN. Let us know what the TRD, TTD, or front end part number is. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:13 AM 08/27/09, you wrote: Hi, I have inherited a tabletop Motorola that has ben modified into a repeater. It has worked for years but now has quit. It is a L43BBB3190DM. What is that? It will not transmit when the PTT on the rear terminal strip is grounded. Where can I find a schematic or any info like the GE LBIs? Thanks, John -- John Mc Hugh, K4AG Coordinator for Amateur Radio National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE key needed
At 05:40 PM 08/24/09, you wrote: Anyone want to sell an extra Mastr II Key? wx3m.te...@gmail.com Which one? Mobile or base/repeater cabinet? This might help clarify things: http://www.repeater-builder.com/keyspage/keyspage-index.html
Re: [Repeater-Builder] isolation
At 06:45 AM 08/23/09, you wrote: I agree with Kevin. You need a little headroom built in for conditions that could change. Equipment ages and changes it's operating characteristics. Temperature swings cause the same issues. Does one need to go overboard? Probably not. But if you happen to be right on the edge under perfect conditions, you may be unhappy when something moves a bit out of tolerance. Chuck WB2EDV Or when you want to add a preamp to the system. From the Antenna Systems page at repeater-builder (under System Engineering) In most repeaters the duplexer provides a certain amount of isolation between the receiver and the transmitter (some systems, like those that use two antennas, or even two sites, don't use duplexers). If the amount of isolation, however it is acquired, is greater than what is required (the excess is sometimes referred to as headroom), then the system design is adequate for the job (see the article Some thoughts on Repeater Receiver-to-Transmitter Isolation below). That situation is fine until they decide to add a preamp to help out the handheld users. Then they discover that the amount of isolation isn't enough. They forgot that you need (at least) the same amount of extra isolation (headroom) as the amount of gain the preamp provides, since it raises the apparent noise floor as well as the signal of interest. In most cases you will have to fight with desense when you add a preamp (a top-quality preamp like an AngleLinear will help). Always have enough extra headroom in your receiver, transmitter and duplexer to handle any of a couple of situations: First, the site owner adds additional repeaters to the site, or second, that you want to add a preamp later on. If the duplexer is your primary provider of receiver-to-transmitter isolation do not scrimp on the duplexer. Next to a good antenna and feedline the duplexer is the most critical part of a good repeater system. Long ago I gave up on four-cavity duplexers (two cavities on each side) on VHF/2m, 222 MHz and UHF, I use the six cavity pass/reject type exclusively. Duplexer tuning is very, very critical. A return loss bridge is preferred, a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator is the second choice. And don't tune the duplexer on the ground, then transport it to the site over a bumpy four-wheel-drive road, and expect it to be as precisely tuned when you get there. Always have the test gear with you at the site to verify final tuning after mounting it in the system rack. Another situation is when the radio site landlord added another tenant - and he installs a 330w paging transmitter. Been there, had that happen. A reasonable amount of extra headroom is always a good thing. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Re: mdc1200 decoding help (private message)
He posted it. If you do anything with it I'd be interested. I'd love to have a MDC decoder that I could plug into a scanner. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:42 PM 08/20/09, you wrote: If you could dig up that email, that would be great. You can either repost on here or email that directly to me. Thanks --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, tahrens301 tahr...@... wrote: One of the guys here had written some C code that runs on a PC that you could use.. think you plug the RX audio into the sound card. If you want, I can dig up the e-mail. I think I saved it. A hardware solution would be to get one of the Motorola desktop MDC units. They have a LED display on it. Don't know the model #, but could probably find on e-bay. Tim --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, agrimm0034 agrimm0034@ wrote: I posted a similiar topic a while back but I can't remember what exactly some advise was gave. I need to find a mdc1200 decoder to either build or relativly cheap such as on ebay. I have a repeater that uses several Motorola radio's using MDC to ID there self. I've searched and found a couple made by Control Signal and found out there outrageous. Is there any off brand's or ebay searches I could do to help me out??? Thanks Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ENHANCED RECEIVE
At 07:47 PM 08/18/09, you wrote: I have heard of repeater owners using pre-amps on the receive side of the duplexer and adding 1 pass-reject cavity after the preamp and placing a pre-amp on the pass reject cavity to enhance more receive. Does this work or is it a myth? Artie k2aau Depends on if you have enough headroom in the duplexer and enough system isolation. http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/preamps.html While this is on 900MHz the theory and comments are just as applicable on 2m, 220 and 440. http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/speaking-of-preamps.html
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Maxon sm4450sc
At 02:16 PM 08/10/09, you wrote: Hi guys .thanks for the replys .The fault was I had too much length between the radio and the ctcss decoder card .I have altered most of my repeaters to allow the maxons to decode the signal by itself and then it controls the transmitter by the maxon approved design with a bs170 fet .I have now developed a interface circuit that has no relays for switching audio .and the new design uses a 4066 audio IC to switch audio paths .It has reduced transmitting delays very well .Now the repeaters seem to work almost as soon as a signal comes in .One repeater decodes even if the signal is just below the mute .I need to find out how that one works.All in all very happy I have found the problem .Now I have repeaters with no ctcss breakup. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au If you have not cast your design into concrete yet you might want to make one parts change. Use the 4053 (3 SPDT switches in one package) instead of the 4066 (4 SPST switches). Use the SPDT switches to feed either audio or audio ground to the next circuit downstream. With SPST you can only open and close the audio path leaving the downstream input floating when the switch is open. This can lead to hum, or at a site with high RF levels, other grunge. Rarely do common interface circuits need 4 switches, and the cost of the chip is pretty much the same. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe
At 03:00 PM 08/11/09, you wrote: Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJldG40YmlnBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTI1MDAzMDExMg--Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject=email Delivery: DigestSwitch delivery to Daily Digest | mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com?subject=change Delivery Format: Fully FeaturedSwitch to Fully Featured http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMm5rZzAyBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzEyNTAwMzAxMTI-Visit Your Group | http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | mailto:repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=unsubscribeUnsubscribe Every message, even yours, has an UNSUBSCRIBE link at the very end. Click on it. Your mailer will open, with the To: address already filled in. Just send it. You will get an Are you sure type of email in return. Follow the directions.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] 2M Vertical Dipoles
Anyone have any info on a Regency Micro-Comm U10R ? Especially the pinout of the 15-pin Molex plug? I have one here and was wondering if it was worth resurrecting. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Icom IC-RP4520 Question...
At 05:11 PM 08/06/09, you wrote: Hello Repeater Builders! I am seeking info on making an Icom IC-RP4520 (450-470 25 watt version) work on 442.825. Background story: I am a member of the Shoreline ACS (near Seattle, WA) and our primary repeater is very old and is failing. It needs parts (tripler I am told) that we have been unable to find. We were recently given an Icom 4520, and are hoping to use it as a replacement. Our repeater site is at a place called CRISTA here in Shoreline - our antenna is 183' up on their tower. It has great coverage (when it works!). Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Josh KD7PAJ The 4530 service manual is downloadable as a PDF from the Icom page at www.repeater-builder.com What is the primary repeater? This mailing list has over 4600 members, and there are a LOT of junque boxes out there (for those unfamiliar with the term, junque is high class junk). Someone is bound to have the part you need. If it's a UHF Micor station (which are famous for eating triplers) then I suggest that you read this: http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-uhf-station-tripler.html That article references the UHF mobile low level amplifier. Mods to it are covered here: http://www.repeater-builder.com/micor/micor-uhf-mobile-lla.html I think that if you repair the Micor that you will find that when properly set up it will easily outperform the Icom. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] Yaesu Vertex 3000U problems...
I have a Yaesu Vertex 3000U radio here that has programming problems - when the cable is plugged in to the mic connector it displays CLN as it should, but won't program. Does anyone have the pinout/wiring diagram for the cable from the VPL1 (yaesu's version of a RIB) to the radio ? If it's a problem internal to the radio, it will be in the path from the mic jack to the microprocessor... does anybody have the service manual or at least a schematic and a PC board layout? Thanks in advance. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB 4062 Duplexer
At 09:39 AM 08/06/09, you wrote: Has anyone replaced the jumpers on a DB 4062 duplexer with Andrews ¼ inch hardline? David Epley, N9CZV Randolph County Emergency Coordinator 4866N 400E Winchester, Indiana 47394 Cell765.546.2592 n9...@arrl.net http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/w4zt-superflex/superflex-pl-connector.html Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Looking for desktrack info
Don't know where he got the trunk mount. My articles at repeater-builder say that AX is Israel, and that L is a tabletop station. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:46 PM 08/06/09, you wrote: My two Desktracs are L44SUM7000BT's as well. I wouldn't call this chassis a 'trunk mount' however, and these are 25kHz channel radios as well. I forgot to include the RB link with the information about the Desktrac systems: http://www.repeater-builder.com/maxtrac/desktrac.html -Brian On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 7:56 AM, ve2pfve...@yahoo.com wrote: --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Brian Raker brian.ra...@... wrote: I've got two UHF DeskTracs as well that I would like to push into service. I'll take a look at MotoOnline and see if they still have documentation in print. -Brian / KF4ZWZ If its the case better look at the info on the model number... our is: AXL44SUM7000BT wich mean Built in Israel, trunk montable, 40 to 50 watt, UHF ,desktrac (maxtrac tabletop), coded squelch/Programable, wideband (15khz deviation),single frequency, serie B repeater... with out the list at repeater-builder dot com , I would have not know this... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Arcom RC210 aux audio question
At 03:07 PM 08/05/09, you wrote: i am trying to use a weather receiver on aux 1 input when i turn on aux 1 it transmits as it should but when i turn it off it stops transmitting but then when the repeater is keyed i can still hear the weather radio on the tail am i doing something wrong or does the aux audio inputs not actually get shut off? The writeup from Ken specifically says that the aux audio ports are dependent on the audio source having it's own muting. That's another way of saying that they have no switching. the weather radio is a WR100 Midland and i plan on just leaving the audio on if i can get the aux port to actually shut off and if that works use an alert port to call a macro to turn aux 1 on until it times out I posted this on the rc210 forum and no responses from anyone so figured i would try here thank you The weather receiver is going to unmute when the SAME code you programmed comes in, and reset itself on the timer built into the receiver. You are feeding audio top the aux port, and it is mixing to the transmitter. The 210 is working just like it should. The aux ports are NOT muted. The cure is simple, and cam be implemented two different ways: 1) Add a 5vDC reed relay to your system (maybe mount it inside the Midland). Wire the contacts across the Midland receiver reset button, and the coil from +5v to a digital output. Then modify your shut up the weather receiver macro to pulse the digital output. That resets the Midland, and it mutes. 2) Wire the relay in series with the audio from the Midland to the aux port. Program the 210 to switch the relay on when you want to hear it, and off when you don't. This method uses the relay as an audio mute. I suggest you go to www.repeater-builder.com and click on Arcom, then on More than 3 ports? That's Ken's writeup on how to implement the IRLP hookup to an aux port. The weather receiver is similar. The text from the repeater-builder page specifically says: More than 3 ports? By Ken Arck AH6LE of Arcom Communications How to connect an IRLP node (or other half-duplex source) to the RC210 without using a port... While the Auxiliary Audio Inputs were originally designed to allow connection of a WWV receiver or weather receiver, this article shows how you can use them, along with Alarm Inputs, to simulate up to 3 more ports. Everything from an IRLP or EchoLink node to a half-duplex link or remote base radio can be used in this manner. The only limitation is that the source has to provide its own squelch audio muting (because the aux audio is not switched on and off - it's on all the time). This means that when you switch the weather receiver off you will have to use a digital output to switch a reed relay, and connect the contacts of the relay across the reset button of the weather receiver. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible desense issue, any thoughts
At 06:34 AM 08/03/09, you wrote: Hey Jed, RG-213 is single shielded. You need to install double shielded cables. Suggest using hardline, RG-214 or RG-142 for jumpers. That should cure the problem. Paul Maggiore AA3VI V.P. Maggiore Electronic Lab (HiPro) Or RG400. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Talking clock has failed on our RC-85 V5.2 FW.
At 10:02 AM 07/28/09, Glen Roe WA6MHA wrote: I've searched the forum and the internet for info on the talking clock option on our rc-85 w/ v 5.2 firmware but found nothing so far. Our rc-85 is still in use at 4000 ft so I'm collecting data before we visit the site. Our manual and upgrade data was not been kept up to date over the last 20+ years so I'm starting from scratch. The paperwork I do have shows an upgrade to v5.2 firmware but no date. It mentions 2 IC's were installed. One I'm sure was a new EPROM and the other mentions a battery backed up clock chip if I read it right. Is it possible the Y2K issue kicked in, or that the battery backup on the clock chip has failed? Everything I can find about the clock is how to add a RS talking Clock, not much about the onboard option? We will go to the site and document the current chipset on our rc-85 when time permits. It can be sent out for repairs but we don't have a spare controller so the machine would be down during that time, something we're trying to avoid. I did get the feeling that this may be a warning sign that the EPROM's may be failing and this is only the start. A newer replacement may be the way to go as a last resort! Thank you for any help you can give us. It's a known bug with the Year 2000 code. The cure is to set the calendar to 28 years ago (28 is due to the day of week and leap year sequences repeating every 28 years), and re-enabling the cloak-calendar chip. If your ACC is still running in 2027 you would set it to 56 years ago (as far as ACC goes it's always 1971 to 1999). See http://www.repeater-builder.com/acc/acc-rc-85-96y2k.html Are there any groups dedicated to ACC Controllers? Yep, two. See the top of the page at http://www.repeater-builder.com/acc/acc-index.html Glen wa6mha Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight
Any hole that is the size of a dime or larger will let mice in. Stainless steel wool and the expanding foam that they sell in a spray can at Home Depot is your friend. Just stuff the stainless steel wool into the hole and lock it in place with a squirt of the foam. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:49 PM 07/28/09, you wrote: Hi Jed, If you have mice, you are not in a controller environment. The mice have taken control. From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 2:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight i'm in a controled environment. -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:25 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight Leave them a note, tell them it's a CLOSED repeater system. ( Sorry, I couldn't resist..) Are you in a cold climate area or is the repeater in a WARMER area than the outside ambient air temp? - M From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 4:19 PM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight Hey guys, I am sure many of you have been through this before. The evil mice decided to waunder in to my repeater sight. Up until now they avoided my repeater, but when I went up there, I was less than pleased. They didn't chew any wires thank god, but they walked across the top of the icom rp4020, and left some presents if you know what I mean. I need some input, what's the best way to clean it up, anything in particular? All the covers were on, so I don't think they got inside, but haven't pulled the cover off yet. Any ideas? Thanks, Jed __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4283 (20090727) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.comhttp://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4283 (20090727) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4283 (20090727) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.comhttp://www.eset.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.33/2267 - Release Date: 07/27/09 17:59:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Getting mice out of a repeater sight
At 03:55 PM 07/28/09, you wrote: Use a mix of bleach and water (10% bleach) to clean all surfaces with including any land mines left by the mice. I would also spray the floor area around your radio so its wet, let it dry and then sweep it. I would use some type of decon or the sticky traps and put moth balls in the radio and area around it. I would also look for the places they are getting in and cover them with some type of metal or stuff steel wool into small openings. Yes, I already commented on this thread, but here's a bit more info... Plain steel wool is a temporary solution, in a year it will rust away, maybe less, depending on your local humidity, and then the mice are back in. I use stainless steel wool, it's a specialty product and hard to find but a quick source of it is any muffler shop that does glass packs. Many years ago they were packed with fiberglass wool (hence the name glass pack), now they are filled with stainless steel wool. Just have the shop cut open an old one with their Sawzall and take what is left of the filling. Or if you can find someone that repacks mufflers then they will have huge reels of 4 wide (or wider) stainless steel wool. Or if you have a McMaster-Carr outlet in your area (or are willing to do mail order) look here http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-wool/=2yjnig About half way down the page, look for Rustess Metal Wool and for product number 7364T74. Three pads will set you back about $6.40 and if you cut them up you can fill from 6 to 12 holes Or if you just want one or two, look for a Star Brite brand Magic Scrub pot scrubbing pad at your local market. You will find that McMaster-Carr is a lot cheaper. The Magic Scrub pad is a form of stainless steel wool, but has very sharp edges. See the photo at http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Wood_Teak_Care-STARBRITE_MAGIC_SCRUB_STAINLESS_STEEL_WOOL_PAD.html Whatever form it takes, the stainless steel will cut through most gloves - even leather. You will want to wear gloves anyway, use heavy scissors to cut it and then use a stick to pack it into any hole that is the size of a dime or larger, and lock it in place with a squirt of the spray can expanding orange fireblock foam that Home Depot sells under the name of Great Stuff (it's a red can with an orange plastic top). See http://greatstuff.dow.com/greatstuff/diy/products/fireblock.htm. The yellow top can http://greatstuff.dow.com/greatstuff/diy/products/gc.htm is the foam less the fireblock, and I won't use it at a repeater site. You need to use both the stainless steel wool and the foam rather than the foam alone as the critters will go right through the foam like it wasn't even there. And remember rubber gloves and some type of breathing respirator when cleaning. Hanta is a nasty virus. Talk to your local paramedics, have them show you an N95 face mask, and the trick you use when you put it on that it takes to make it seal properly. Then go get a few. The common dust masks that you buy at Home Depot (or at Harbor Freight) are worthless for this (the virus particles are much much smaller than dust). The paramedics know where to get the N95 masks in any given area, or if he's feeling good he may give you one or two. As far as Hanta goes, see http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm Rat poison (Decon, etc) works, but you have to realize HOW it works - it's a two-part mix. When the rat eats it, the first part is a drug that makes him thirsty. He leaves the building, finds water, and drinks. Thats when the second part goes into action - the poison dissolves and kills him. He's supposed to die outside at the water hole. At least that's what the plan was. But even good plans fail. And if the rat has already drank, the poison dissolves immediately after he eats it and you have dead rats all over the place. Or if the mouse or rat does get outside, a snake can eat him. Then you get secondary kills of beneficial life forms (the snakes keep the mouse and rat population down). Then the hawk catches and eats the dying snake, and the hawk dies. Overall, it's better to plug the holes first than to spread poison around. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Isolator vs intermod panel?
At 02:11 PM 07/24/09, you wrote: Thanks everyone for the education on this subject. I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner. I had a problem with my yahoo groups settings and then a situation come up that took me away for a few days. I do appreciate each and every reply! An intermod situation cropped up when a new WISP went on a nearby tower. Whenever their 900 MHz stuff is activated and my 147.105 transmitter comes up I have a strong intermod product on my 147.705 input. Anyway thanks for the educational reading. Hopefully we will be able to get this sorted out soon. Paul N1BUG Look for a 600 KHz based switching supply. I found that situation at one location by unplugging the RF stuff from the power supply and the crud was still there. Unplugged the PS and the problem went away. The ISP replaced the switcher with a linear and the problem was solved (at least THAT problem). Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need to pay someone to properly install repeater system in our school
At 11:09 AM 07/23/09, you wrote: We converted an old Kroger grocery store into a charter school. The building has metal roofing and lots of steel beams, making it very difficult to get a good signal on our Nextel and AtT cell phones. So far we have installed antennas and amplifiers, to no avail. We would like to pay someone to visit the school and make everything work. Any suggestions. R. Dale Dowell, CFO Focus Learning Academy This mailing list has over 4500 contributors from all 50 states and over 20 countries. Where are you ? Mike Morris
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kenwood PG-4S Programming Cable...
At 11:35 AM 07/23/09, you wrote: Hello All, I am looking for a PG-4S Cable for my Kenwood TM-V7A Radio, if anyone has one please E-Mail me directly. Thanks, Grady W4GLE Google is your friend. https://www.hamcity.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=96idproduct=845 $32 is a pretty good price, I've seen them for as much as $90. Or you could build your own. See http://www.repeater-builder.com/kenwood/images/kenwood-programmer-kc7gf.jpg but instead of the 6-pin RJ-11 you would put one end of an S-video cable. You might have to trim some of the rubber down so it will plug into the radio. Or maybe use the plug end of an old PC keyboard or PC mouse cable.. Pinout info is here http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/pg4s_4y.html Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB Products VHF UHF on same mast?
Is your control a receive only, or is it a UHF control repeater? I've seen a 2m antenna used to feed both a 2m receiver and a UHF receiver. After all, the third harmonic of 147 MHz is 441 mhz. At 08:11 PM 07/20/09, you wrote: I've got a DB-224 that is going up the tower in a while when I get the hardline, but control issues have changed from land line to 440mhz control. So I need 2 antennas. Today I saw a hybrid DB antenna, effectively a 224, plus a 16 element DB, all on the same mast. Is this something that can be done without having each antenna interact with the other? Sounds like a good idea to me. Just curious, Thanks, Tim W5FN Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Convert 406-420mhz Mastr II to ham band
At 08:05 AM 07/19/09, you wrote: Okay guys, I might be biting off more than I know here, but I've been tasked out to try to get this accomplished for a new fledgling group of hams here. How much effort is really involved in converting a 406-420Mhz Mastr II machine (combination ending in 77) up to the ham band? Need to start learning more somewhere and this seems like a good avenue to take. I'm sure someone must have written up a step by step guide for re-tuning, I just have not found it yet. A point in the right direction would be helpful. Thanks, Dave - N0TRQ Pulling a 406-420 MHz radio 25 MHz up is darn near impossible. On the other hand pulling a 450-460 radio (that the designers were deliberately a little sloppy on the low end) down 10MHz is rather easy and already well documented. If you really want to proceed, however, the instructions boil down to: 1) RX: Remove the front end and the oscillator multipler chain and totally rebuild with 88 series components. 2) TX: Remove the exciter and rebuild with 88 series components. 3) TX: Remove the PA deck and replace all the ceramics with the ones from a 88 series. The easy way: Post a message saying Anybody want to trade an 77 series radio for a equivalent 88 series? The 88 series radios that will pull down a little to 440 are 50 times more common than the 77 series ones that are highly prized for point-to-point links (420-423 MHz range). Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Building HT antennas
FWIW I have a 99-channel 42-50MHz MT1000 that I bought with the intention of using it for both 6m and 47 MHz Red Cross channels. The radio came with a 32-channel model number, but the radio took 99 channels just fine. The radio is not in service yet as it needs to be modified from the 42-50 MHz range to 46-54 MHz. And I do not know if the radio front end (or the transmit VCO) will reach to both 47mhz and 52-53 MHz. If anybody has done any work in that direction I'd like to hear from you. If it does end up to be usable on both I know that I'm going to need to have two separate antennas - a shorter one for ham and a second, longer one, for Red Cross. Over the years I've learned that you should not expect any real transmit performance from a low band HT, especially an HT200 or an MT1000. Why? Two reasons... First: A 1/4 wave at 52 MHz is about 54 inches (about 4 1/2 feet). An antenna with a decent ground plane would have a 1/4 wave radiator and a 1/4 wave ground plane, for a total of just about 9 feet long. I can just see a 9 foot long coaxial antenna plugged into a 7 1/2 inch long radio. Second The MT1000 uses a hot-only antenna connector, with no ground (at least the GP68 got that part right). The only way to get a RF ground is to use a cheezy plastic adapter that uses an earphone plug to adapt the radio to a length of RG174 coax. (see the photos on http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/genesis/genesis-index.html and look above the photo of a hand holding a radio) FWIW I've seen a couple of the adapters converted to a BNC mounted into the top of the adapter. So without re-engineering the radio your choices are a footlong rubber duck that would make a good truncheon, or an external antenna. And the NAB6064B duck is about $24-$25 each. More and more I've been thinking that a crossband repeater from a Red Cross UHF frequency (locally there are several already coordinated, licensed and in use) to the particular 47 MHz frequency (locally we have at least three, one of which is the nationwide 47.42) might just be more practical. Mike WA6ILQ At 01:42 PM 07/10/09, you wrote: Albert, In the 30-50 MHz band, the antennas for a portable radio must be cut for proper operation, over a very narrow range of frequencies. The length of a whip antenna must be changed by 1/4-3/8 inch for every 1 MHz. Motorola still offers the NAB6064B tunable antenna for the MT1000 radio, which must be cut to length for the specific frequency needed. In other words, there is no such thing as a broadband antenna for low band, and the radio's PA could be damaged by using an antenna that is not the right length. The NAB6064B antenna costs about $23 from Motorola Parts. Call 800-422-4210 to order. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Albert Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 12:56 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Building HT antennas Hey guys, I posted this question over on the HT600e forum but didn't get anything. I was wondering if anyone here could be of assistance. I recently acquired a low band MT1000 for use on the 6m band. It has a nice new commercial antenna but I was wanting to do something a little better. No one that I can find supplies or can supply me with a better antenna for this radio. Even smiley antenna, my usual go to company for custom antennas for the Genesis line can't help me. So I was thinking of building my own. My first thought, since the antenna connector on the MT1000 is basically a 1/4-32 hole, I could thread a piece of aluminum round stock to create a base. Then I could just make a 1/4 wave whip from stainless rod. I know it would be silly long but it is a start. If I do this, do you think I should just use the standard 1/4 wave vertical formula? Would I need to compensate for the HT's lack of a ground plane? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Albert KI4ORI
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Zetron Model 45
Anybody have a manual for a Zetron 45, not a 45B, a 45 ? Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] ctcss dropout due to loud voice
I think you will find that shouting into the mic will talk off the CTCSS. The last new radio I tested had 5.8-5.9 KHz dev fresh out of the box. My standard test is to yell a FOUR into the mic with my lips just a 1/4 inch off the mic grille. And it's instinctive for the people in a vehicle to speak up when traffic noises are loud, especially when the window(s) are open. A bench test on a brand new radio HAS to include yelling into the mic. Mike At 02:51 PM 07/06/09, you wrote: Thanks .These maxons pm160 are straight from the makers and the deviation hasn't been touched but I will check this radio on our service monitor and see how it goes. Thank You, Ian Wells, Kerinvale Comaudio, 361 Camboon Road.Biloela.4715 Phone 0749922574 or 0409159932 http://www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au/www.kerinvalecomaudio.com.au ---Original Message--- From: mailto:k...@catonic.usKris Kirby Date: 7/07/2009 07:40:08 To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ctcss dropout due to loud voice On Tue, 7 Jul 2009, kerinvale wrote: Hi guys .Can anyone suggest ways to reduce ctcss dropout when someone is talking loud on a repeater .The repeater radios are maxon pm150 (sm4450sc) and I have tuned them using 600hz of ctcss and a 1khz tone at 3khz modulation to make sure it doesn't happen ,but I have one user that talks louder than the other users and it seems to breakup all the time for them where other users seem to have no problems.Could I make sure their ctcss from their maxon pm160 is around 600hz or 700hz or could the problem be more tied up with the receiving repeater radio Your user is over-deviating. Reduce the deviation in his radio, or tell him not to yell into the mic. The dropout is because his signal is passing outside of the receiver's bandpass. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
At 03:19 PM 07/01/09, you wrote: Not that impressive really. Whats all this crap worth, maybe $20k? Well, item 105 is a VHF MTR2000 repeater. Think that might be worth something ? Item 117 on the list is a box of 123 handhelds. Pages 4-7 list them. There are a number of HT1000s and HT750s and at least one XTS. Item 202 is a Sinclair Q3220E UHF duplexer. Tessco catalog shows $1100 as the price. I could go on... Not really that much money. You would be of a different opinion if it was your XTS that disappeared, or your hilltop repeater that evaporated. I posted the newsletter fragment so that those that HAVE had stuff disappear might take a look at the serial number lists and maybe recover some property. This mailing list has over 4500 members, and the published story specifically encouraged re-mailing it to others. Hopefully the VCSO detective will get some phone calls or emails stating you've got my equipment. And stuff HAS disappeared from mountaintop sites over the years. I've seen photos of buildings that have been broken into - some were as simple as backing a truck trailer hitch into the door and driving away with it. Others were broken into by drilling out the door locks. The perps have gone through the building walls in several cases. FM broadcast parts pop up in rather strange places these days for cheap since theres really not much legitimate commercial market for a boat-anchor transmitter. A complete 1kw FM broadcast transmitter is unusual enough when it is recovered in a pile of land mobile radios. Plus the newsletter, while run by a ham, is oriented towards the broadcast community, and Mr. Gonset naturally chose to focus on the broadcast equipment. And there is plenty of market in rural areas, and in Mexico. You'd think someone smart/slick enough to get away with stealing that much gear would likely be smart enough to not get busted by the FCC for screwing with mall cops. True, and there is no way to tell what goes through some peoples minds... Some of the comments on this news page are interesting. http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/jun/30/to-malls-radio-frequencies-jammed-man-arrested/#comments Did this guy sell LM radio/programming for a living? Don't know. One local gentleman thinks that he works (worked?) for a local TV station. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio samples
At 03:22 AM 07/02/09, you wrote: Hello, Was Wondering if anyone had a link to a site that had samples of talk thru Repeater traffic that would be considered good quality audio ? Maybe i am expecting too much but any of the ones around here that i have heard seem either Muffled or very Shrill, Listening on the input frequency the Audio seems quite reasonable but the Transmit Audio doesn't sound the same and seems a bit average. I realize that the Audio will vary due to the normal constraints of Radio atmospherics but i was hoping for something that doesn't sound like a very cheap tiny AM broadcast radio I would be really interested in discovering just how good normal Analogue speech can sound when it is being passed through something that is properly setup. Apologies if this has been answered before, i searched but couldn't find anything specific. Any info gratefully received, Cheers, Where is around here ? From what you are saying it sounds like whomever set up the repeater(s) does not understand de-emphasis and pre-emphasis. From the article at http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/flataudio.html ... Another problem that rears its ugly head unless you know the equipment you are working on intimately... If you pick off raw (i.e. not de-emphasized) audio from the receiver discriminator and pipe it into the microphone jack of a transmitter you will end up with an extra level of pre-emphasis (commonly called double pre-emphasis) that will cause the audio to sound very tinny or shrill (take your home hi-fi, tune to a talk radio station, center the bass and the treble controls, note the audio characteristics, then crank the bass control to minimum and the treble to maximum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). On a true FM transmitter you can sometimes bypass the pre-emphasis network, on a phase modulated transmitter there is no way around it without adding a de-emphasis network in front of it to compensate. This is why many repeater controllers have a built in de-emphasis network that can be jumpered into the circuit or jumpered out as needed. Likewise, picking audio from the receiver after the de-emphasis network (in some receivers that point is after the volume control and the audio muting part of the squelch circuit) and piping it into a true FM transmitter modulator can produce audio with extra amount of de-emphasis (commonly called double de-emphasis) resulting in a very muffled, bassy sound with no high frequencies (same example as above, but crank the bass control to maximum and the treble to minimum - and mentally double or triple the overall effect). Either of the above two situations is instantly recognizable by an experienced ear. Mike WA6ILQ
[Repeater-Builder] IMPORTANT - large amount of stolen equipment recovered - is some yours?
Recently the FCC busted a local jammer and when his residence was searched they found a treasure trove. There are over 200 pieces of equipment involved including laptops, desktops, over 120 handhelds and several repeaters. And broadcast equipment including a commercial grade FM transmitter. If anybody has serial numbers on file that matches anything on the lists mentioned below I think that the Ventura County Sheriff's Department would like to hear from you - contact Detective Jon Smith at (805) 494-8216 or via e-mail at jon.smith (at) ventura (dot) org The snippet below is from the CGC Communicator, a broadcast industry weekly newsletter published by Robert F. Gonsett, W6VR, cgc (at) cgc333 (dot) connectnet (dot) com, Copyright 2009, Communications General® Corporation (CGC). Reprinted with permission, and the newsletter has given permission for others to do likewise. No additional permission is needed. ** LIST OF POTENTIALLY STOLEN EQUIPMENT IN THE BONDY CASE The Ventura County Sheriff's Department has prepared its list of potentially stolen radio equipment in the Kevin Bondy case. Mr. Bondy is accused of jamming some southern California radio frequencies as discussed in recent CGC Communicator newsletters. A police search of his residence turned up an extraordinary amount of potentially stolen radio gear. Your help is needed. Is any of this equipment yours? Would you copy this story to others in the land-mobile and broadcast industries, particularly to equipment dealers and publications? If some or all of this equipment is stolen, the owners need to contact the Ventura County Sheriff pronto. Items #120 - 123 involve FM broadcast equipment; the rest is land-mobile gear (including repeaters) with a few miscellaneous items mixed in (e.g. computers, CB amateur radio gear). The first URL takes you to the list. The second URL shows pictures of the FM broadcast equipment and gives contact information for the Ventura County Sheriff. Communications General Corp. has been in touch with Broadcast Electronics concerning Item #120, the solid state 1,000 watt FM broadcast transmitter. Unfortunately, the serial number is a bit outdated for their records, but perhaps you or an equipment dealer would have a record of the sales transaction. Thanks for helping by looking over the equipment list and forwarding this story to others. Equipment list: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Oaks_Mall_09-5771.pdf Photographs of the FM broadcast equipment: http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/Letters/Stolen%20Equipment.htm Background information on Mr. Bondy: http://www.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/2003/DOC-290813A1.html **
