Re: [OSM-talk-be] Hi all
Hi Kenny, nice to see you mapping around. I've been a bit idle recently, due to an overload of work in dayjob. I have no particular interest in mapping landuse myself, so I would welcome any bulk import that is allowed. I would love to hear if you make any progress. Greetings good luck, Sebastiaan 2010/1/5 Kenny Knecht kenny.kne...@gmail.com Hi all, Sorry but my french is not that good and for international reference (sharing experience), I will write in english. I've been touring around in Gent and the surroundings, mapping with GPS and drawing routes from it for some months now. When I jumped in, some people had already done an awful lot of work and there is still a lot of work to be done, but sector by sector we are getting nearer something that is acceptable as a map. People who are also mapping in Gent, please contant me (especially Sebastiaan and Johandkosm who appear to be quite active but also all the others...) Since the weather is very nasty to ride a bike, I turned my attention more toward the programming part. I feel that we might benefit from some bulk uploads. One that is certainly feasable is the european Corine Land cover 2000: that gives information about land use. on the website http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/landuse/clc-download I read that *The information in under copyright of EEA and in the public domai* n... People from France have done this for the dataset of 2006, but that is not yet in the public domain. In France they were allowed to use that data set (see http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2009-May/009070.html), but I think the NGI won't even consider doing that. In the import section they describe how to do it. Do you all think it is worth it? I have got some more plans, but I promise I want do any bulk uploads without consulting you ;-) cu Pietje Leugenaar ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Hi all
Kenny Knecht wrote: One that is certainly feasable is the european Corine Land cover 2000: that gives information about land use. on the website http://www.eea.europa.eu/themes/landuse/clc-download I read that *The information in under copyright of EEA and in the public domai* n... Which is a pretty awkward statement, because telling something is in public domain and telling it is under copyright are orthogonal. People from France have done this for the dataset of 2006, but that is not yet in the public domain. In France they were allowed to use that data set (see http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2009-May/009070.html), but I think the NGI won't even consider doing that. But I guess no-one has asked yet :-) (although I'm pretty sure as well they won't consider this, given the huge price tag this data has today). In the import section they describe how to do it. Do you all think it is worth it? I have got some more plans, but I promise I want do any bulk uploads without consulting you ;-) Other bulk import plans? Any chance to unveil some of the things you have in mind? :-) Greetings Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] Hi all
but I think the NGI won't even consider doing that. In the import It's certainly worth it to ask and explore this, before we turn all our attention to CLC2000. I also believe we should explore the Freedom of Information acts more. Especially the Federal Decree has some interesting sections on our being able to use official documentation released under FOI. But, being Dutch, if someone from Belgium could delve into this, that would be better, I think. One less barrier to scare the officials. :) section they describe how to do it. Do you all think it is worth it? I have the entire CLC2000 dataset on my server, and had a quick look. The answer is, obviously: yes and no. Con: The data is old, some things will simply be outdated. Pro: Some objects, like residential landuse areas, look pretty good. All the typically belgian 'linten' are very recognisable. Con: Other objects, like agricultural areas, are pretty large, and would certainly not form a single continuous area IRL. This would need extra checking after the import. Pro: landuse mapping in Belgium, outside where there is yahoo hires coverage and people have spent time tracing, is pretty lacking. Taking the specific things from CLC2000 that would work nicely would be a good step forward. Pro: the way the French have setup the Corine import is that you can exclude areas which are overlapping with existing OSM areas. You can then, later on, import those areas missed due to overlap, by hand, from a website. Ben said we could even delete existing OSM areas before the import starts, if we know the existing mapping is inaccurate. If you guys want, I could set up a map overlay with the raw CLC2000 data, so you can check it out? I have got some more plans, but I promise I want do any bulk uploads without consulting you ;-) Do you have any other potential datasets in mind? -- Lennard ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
Hi, Simon Ward wrote: On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 02:44:53AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Unless you're willing sign something that says I agree that OSMF will make two attempts to contact me at my registered e-mail address with information on how to vote on an upcoming license change suggestion, and if I don't react then that counts as an abstain vote. Oh, and there should most definitely be more than one attempt at making contact. I assumed it went without saying. I must remember not to make too many of these assumptions. :) Well in the current setup, it is in OSMF's interest to reach you, because if they want to change the license, they need a yes from 50% of active mappers. (It is not sufficient to simply write to all active mappers, and then if 100 of them reply and 51 are in favour, the change goes through.) So that hurdle is rather high; anyone who cannot be reached or who doesn't respond is by default a no vote. That's why I think it is valid to try to keep the pool of people smaller by saying active contributor with the definition behind it. If we were to say we want to poll every single contributor past and present, then it would be absolutely impossible to even get 50% of them to respond, much less to understand the proposal or be bothered to vote. In such a scenario, you could not possibly put the hurdle at 50% of the electorate but you would have to say 50% of people who respond. And this then requires some sort of definition of how much time and money must be spent on OSMF side to reach the person (what, my email address was invalid, if you had just googled my name you would have found my new address... etc.) So: EITHER we do 50% of all active contributors (with no reply being a no vote), or we do 50% of all those who have ever contributed *and* bother to reply. Bye Frederik ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-legal-talk] European Union Inspire Directive
Is there someone who know more about the Inspire EU directive for Geodata from 2007, and can highlight things that are important for Openstreetmap? They are working on the implementation here in Sweden, it would be of great help to get any input. The only thing, I've found, that is interesting for Openstreetmap. (19) it should be possible to search for geodata (26) Stimulating value adding services The directive is here: English: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:108:0001:0014:EN:PDF Swedish: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:108:0001:0014:SV:PDF Just change the SV to FR/DE/ES to get other languages. -- /emj ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] European Union Inspire Directive
El Jueves, 7 de Enero de 2010, Erik Johansson escribió: Is there someone who know more about the Inspire EU directive for Geodata from 2007, and can highlight things that are important for Openstreetmap? They are working on the implementation here in Sweden, it would be of great help to get any input. In a nutshell, it says that all countries of the EU should make available to the other countries *which* sets of geodata do they have, and how to get them. That's called publishing the metadata. Also, it says that the countries must have some form of WMS server to let other government's agencies to view that data. Alas, those WMS services can be locked down (password-protected or otherwise) to non-government people. Data download is mentioned, through WFS. Now it's when some SDItard pops out and says Hey, the INSPIRE directive does encourage to publish stuff so the general public can see it. Well, guess what. The directive says that data can be locked down if it would interfere with intellectual property, industrial information property (patents), or reliance on third-party data (subcontracted surveyors). Even if there are no such burdens, any agency can publish data and say no commercial use, no reuse, no copying, just view it. Gov'ts will have liberty to publish the data under the conditions they like, or not publish it if they assert IP rights or third party rights. I'm actually a member of the spanish SDI working group. The general feeling in this group is that Spain is quite ahead of the rest of the countries, just because of the fact that most spanish government agencies do already publish WMS services in the open, although most of those prevent commercial reuse or derivative works. Also, AFAIK, most of the work of the SDI working groups goes into standarization of data structures. Basically, everyone related to a SDI has gone through the equivalent of 20 OSM how-do-we-tag-this-thing wars. The technical goal is that vector and raster data of all countries is homogeneous Bottom line: it's a directive aimed at government agencies, so gov't agency A of country B can get data from gov't agency C from country D and be able to (both technically and legally) use it. The directive does not aim to push any free data policy aimed at making more geodata available to the public nor to businesses. Policies on data licensing are most likely to remain the same. Hope this clears it up, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] European Union Inspire Directive
Dear Erik, The INSPIRE directive addresses first and foremost the sharing of spatial data between public authorities, both from a technical point of view and from an organisational point of view. On a second level, it also addresses public access to network services. It is important for OpenStreetMap in the sense that the public authorities have to create several types of services for all the data themes that are included in the INSPIRE directive (there are 34 and they are fairly broad). These services include discovery services (metadata), viewing services, download services and transformation services. The directive itself does not address re-use of geographic data, so OpenStreetMap cannot obtain data directly under INSPIRE legislation, but of course many public authorities will most likely also make the services that they have to develop anyway, available for use by other parties. So indirectly the developments of the INSPIRE directive are quite important. Best regards, Katleen -- ** dr. Katleen Janssen Legal researcher K.U.Leuven - Interdisciplinary Centre for Law and ICT Sint-Michielsstraat 6 B-3000 LEUVEN - BELGIUM [t] +32 16 328 707 [f] : + 32 16 325 438 [e] katleen.jans...@law.kuleuven.be [w] www.law.kuleuven.ac.be/icri/ - www.ibbt.be From: legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Erik Johansson [erjo...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:29 AM To: Licensing and other legal discussions. Subject: [OSM-legal-talk] European Union Inspire Directive Is there someone who know more about the Inspire EU directive for Geodata from 2007, and can highlight things that are important for Openstreetmap? They are working on the implementation here in Sweden, it would be of great help to get any input. The only thing, I've found, that is interesting for Openstreetmap. (19) it should be possible to search for geodata (26) Stimulating value adding services The directive is here: English: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:108:0001:0014:EN:PDF Swedish: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:108:0001:0014:SV:PDF Just change the SV to FR/DE/ES to get other languages. -- /emj ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
In England the work of what our colonial brothers and sisters on the paranoid side of the Atlantic call a 'public notary' is one of the things done by a 'solicitor' - whereas over there a 'solicitor' is more likely to be working in the less salubrious parts of town and may need the services of an 'attorney' (aka 'lawyer'). Of course, it is not entirely unknown for an 'attorney' to use the services of a 'solicitor' - which may or may not be legal, according to the jurisdiction. Whereas in England there is nothing dubious about a 'lawyer' employing a 'solicitor' - or even a 'barrister' ... But maybe that's enough ... PS. In the 1960s in order to get my then fiancée a US visa I had to swear an oath (that we would marry at a given time and place) in front of a 'public notary' in the USA and she had to do likewise in front of a 'solicitor' in England. Which produced a letter from the US Immigration Naturalisation Service allowing her entry into the land of the free on condition that (and I quote) the marriage is consummated prior to entry into the United States of America. Those were the days when a body scan on entry to the USA was a really serious matter (;) ... Mike Harris -Original Message- From: David Paleino [mailto:da...@debian.org] Sent: 05 January 2010 19:48 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal) John Smith wrote: 2010/1/6 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com: Yet the same English word notary. It gets even more fun in Australia, we have JPs (Justice of the Peace) to stamp/witness documents being signed, but in the US a JP is something like a judge. In Italy JPs are something like a judge, and notary has the same meaning as the one Serge pointed out for France (i.e. part of the Judiciary, not an attorney, but needed for legally binding things) joke amenity=notary notary=american-like|european-like /joke :) -- . ''`. Debian developer | http://wiki.debian.org/DavidPaleino : :' : Linuxer #334216 --|-- http://www.hanskalabs.net/ `. `'` GPG: 1392B174 | http://snipr.com/qa_page `- 2BAB C625 4E66 E7B8 450A C3E1 E6AA 9017 1392 B174 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Vertical ways (staircase)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello, In Lausanne I have similar problems with public external lift ! http://maps.google.fr/maps?q=Lausanneie=UTF8hq=hnear=Lausanne,+Vaud,+Suissell=46.521806,6.623316spn=0.000784,0.002064t=hz=20 CU Stéphane Ture Pålsson a écrit : How should I map a staircase connecting a bridge to a street below? My initial thought was to approximate it with a vertical way with highway=steps, but is it even possible to have a vertical way? I.e, can you have two nodes at the same lat/lon but with different layers? (Do nodes even have layers?) Or should I try to map the actual zigzagging/spiralling of the steps? But that, too, leaves me with the question of how to map things that project on the same spot on the ground. Cheat completely and map it as a steep, but not vertical, way? The route in [1] would be considerably shorter if the router knew that there are stairs between Norrbackagatan and the bridge. -- Ture [1] http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=59.338005lng=18.032169zoom=17directions=59.33924112582132,18.031471967697144,59.33603484441543,18.033864498138428travel=foot ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk - -- Stéphane Brunner Messagerie instantanée (Jabber - XMPP) : stephane.brun...@jabber.fr - -- Annuaire de logiciel libre - http://framasoft.net -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAktERFwACgkQs5/Hk9HWqUxQ7wCeIj2a1bifbFEo5LSPHCtyJ224 V+gAoIXfzasjifKnH9tdWlBvGIJpi4Fj =T0Qr -END PGP SIGNATURE- attachment: courriel.vcf___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Vertical ways (staircase)
2010/1/5 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk A structure with 2 nodes one above the other would be necessary for things like this: http://www.schmickler-metallbau.de/images/ref/WBH/Niederehe_Leiter.jpg I believe that one node is sufficient. This node must have no level and must somehow be typecast as a ladder (or a lift - same problem). The levels must be attributes of each connected ways. Schematic example : way (level=0) --- node (highway=ladder) --- way (level=1) There is surely more than one way to do it, but this is the one that feels natural to me. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Vertical ways (staircase)
Jean-Marc Liotier wrote: way (level=0) --- node (highway=ladder) --- way (level=1) Ooops - wrong tag. That should have been : way (layer=0) --- node (highway=ladder) --- way (layer=1) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
But I ask if it is valid for OSM or not, I know SCO vs * was extreme, but that doesn't mean it is valid for us. Can you point on some similarities in evidence, cercumstances, factors that can make this a valid case? If not it is the same as Larry Flynt vs America or most lawsuits. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:19 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Please reread what I wrote, the sco v world was an exame of how far a frivoulus lawsuit can go On 06/01/2010, Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org wrote: groklaw.net - I subscribed to their newletter during the hottest part of the lawsuit. Wasn't just SCO vs Linux, was more SCO vs Linux vs IBM vs everybody else. And where did everything start? In a piece of source code if I remember right. Something in the Linux kernel supposedly came from a piece of copyrighted code bought by SCO from IBM. So if that applies here, the street names somebody copies from Google can become the property of and opens lawsuite against OSM for stealing their work? I believe SCO had some form of evidence other than word on the street, don't know if such claims about street names can be proved in the same way though. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:25 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: Friverlous lawsuits can and have been used to bankrupt competition and you only have to look at sco v linux to see how far they can go On 06/01/2010, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.comwrote: Am 05.01.2010 15:17, schrieb Anthony: I certainly don't suggest blatantly breaking the law. What I suggest is not acting as though there is a law when you have no evidence that there is. So far no one has shown me the law that is supposedly being broken. One brief attempt pointed to EU database law, which 1) hasn't been shown to apply in Australia; and 2) hasn't been shown to apply to all instances of copying anyway. So we'll end up with a map only being legally usable in Australia. What makes you think that? Fine for you, but not a goal that I have. Nor a goal I have, since I don't live in Australia. What we're left with is some sort of vague Pascal's Wager type admonishment - I have absolutely no evidence for my claims, but you have to follow what I say anyway because not doing so would be infinitely bad. I don't buy that crap. So unless a mapper was drawn to bancrupt at court, you still won't agree that there might be a problem. What makes you think that? On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 2:15 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: 2010/1/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Really? Where? What laws are being suggested to be broken? Not familiar with frivilous lawsuits? Just don't see that applicability. I certainly don't suggest blatantly breaking the law. What I suggest is not acting as though there is a law when you have no evidence that there is. Not only is there copyright law, in the case of Google and other online services there is also contract law. Yes, there is also contract law which no one has shown to apply. By the way, in any EU states, any contractual provision which attempts to prevent a lawful user of the database from extracting and/or re-utilizing insubstantial parts of its contents, evaluated qualitatively and/or quantitatively, for any purposes whatsoever is null and void. I don't know if Australia has such a provision, though. So far no one has shown me the law that is supposedly being broken. One brief attempt pointed to EU database law, which 1) hasn't been shown to apply in Australia; and 2) hasn't been shown to apply to all instances of copying anyway. You mustn't have asked the right questions, see the Telstra ruling. Seems to me there's a difference between copying an entire phone book and copying a few street names. I find it hard to believe that anyone who gives someone else directions after consulting with a map is committing a copyright violation. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: But I ask if it is valid for OSM or not, I know SCO vs * was extreme, but that doesn't mean it is valid for us. Can you point on some similarities in evidence, cercumstances, factors that can make this a valid case? If not it is the same as Larry Flynt vs America or most lawsuits. I'm not claiming there are any simularitied between the legal action SCO was undertaking and OSM, I was claiming it's possible to launch a friverlous lawsuit with no basis and keep it going on for years and effectively bankrupt the competition in the process. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] buffer overflow with osm2pgsql
Hi, I tried like this http://blog.geoserver.org/2009/01/30/geoserver-and-openstreetmap/ to import osm-data into Postgresql. I used EPSG 25833 (but I also tried 900913). Same with ja...@dellmo3:/usr/share/osm2pgsql$ osm2pgsql -s -C 2000 -E 25833 -U janes -W -d gis planet.osm I run Postgresql 8.3, Postgis 1.3.5.1 and osm2pgsql 0.66 with Kubuntu 9.10 Could somebody help? Merci! Here's the result of my trial: + ja...@dellmo3:~/Dokumente$ osm2pgsql -E 25833 -d gis planet.osm osm2pgsql SVN version 0.66- *** buffer overflow detected ***: osm2pgsql terminated === Backtrace: = /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__fortify_fail+0x48)[0x2fbde8] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6[0x2fae20] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6[0x2fa558] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(_IO_default_xsputn+0x9e)[0x28459e] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(_IO_vfprintf+0xe1c)[0x25895c] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__vsprintf_chk+0xad)[0x2fa60d] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__sprintf_chk+0x2d)[0x2fa54d] osm2pgsql[0x8058b03] osm2pgsql[0x8051d85] /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe6)[0x231b56] osm2pgsql[0x804abd1] === Memory map: 0011-001f6000 r-xp 08:02 7618 /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.13 001f6000-001fa000 r--p 000e6000 08:02 7618 /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.13 001fa000-001fb000 rw-p 000ea000 08:02 7618 /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6.0.13 001fb000-00202000 rw-p 00:00 0 00202000-00217000 r-xp 08:02 3602 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread-2.10.1.so 00217000-00218000 r--p 00014000 08:02 3602 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread-2.10.1.so 00218000-00219000 rw-p 00015000 08:02 3602 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libpthread-2.10.1.so 00219000-0021b000 rw-p 00:00 0 0021b000-00359000 r-xp 08:02 3576 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.10.1.so 00359000-0035b000 r--p 0013e000 08:02 3576 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.10.1.so 0035b000-0035c000 rw-p 0014 08:02 3576 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc-2.10.1.so 0035c000-0035f000 rw-p 00:00 0 0035f000-00361000 r-xp 08:02 3582 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl-2.10.1.so 00361000-00362000 r--p 1000 08:02 3582 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl-2.10.1.so 00362000-00363000 rw-p 2000 08:02 3582 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libdl-2.10.1.so 00363000-00365000 r-xp 08:02 1285 /lib/libcom_err.so.2.1 00365000-00366000 r--p 1000 08:02 1285 /lib/libcom_err.so.2.1 00366000-00367000 rw-p 2000 08:02 1285 /lib/libcom_err.so.2.1 00367000-00392000 r-xp 08:02 6884 /usr/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2.2 00392000-00393000 r--p 0002a000 08:02 6884 /usr/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2.2 00393000-00394000 rw-p 0002b000 08:02 6884 /usr/lib/libgssapi_krb5.so.2.2 00394000-0039d000 r-xp 08:02 3580 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libcrypt-2.10.1.so 0039d000-0039e000 r--p 8000 08:02 3580 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libcrypt-2.10.1.so 0039e000-0039f000 rw-p 9000 08:02 3580 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libcrypt-2.10.1.so 0039f000-003c6000 rw-p 00:00 0 003c6000-003e2000 r-xp 08:02 1304 /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 003e2000-003e3000 r--p 0001b000 08:02 1304 /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 003e3000-003e4000 rw-p 0001c000 08:02 1304 /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 003e4000-003eb000 r-xp 08:02 7234 /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0.1 003eb000-003ec000 r--p 6000 08:02 7234 /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0.1 003ec000-003ed000 rw-p 7000 08:02 7234 /usr/lib/libkrb5support.so.0.1 003ed000-003fd000 r-xp 08:02 3604 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libresolv-2.10.1.so 003fd000-003fe000 r--p 0001 08:02 3604 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libresolv-2.10.1.so 003fe000-003ff000 rw-p 00011000 08:02 3604 /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libresolv-2.10.1.so 003ff000-00401000 rw-p 00:00 0 00401000-0040e000 r-xp 08:02 7286 /usr/lib/liblber-2.4.so.2.5.1 0040e000-0040f000 r--p c000
Re: [OSM-talk] buffer overflow with osm2pgsql
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:15 AM, janes huff h...@radinformix.de wrote: Hi, I tried like this http://blog.geoserver.org/2009/01/30/geoserver-and-openstreetmap/ to import osm-data into Postgresql. I used EPSG 25833 (but I also tried 900913). Same with ja...@dellmo3:/usr/share/osm2pgsql$ osm2pgsql -s -C 2000 -E 25833 -U janes -W -d gis planet.osm I run Postgresql 8.3, Postgis 1.3.5.1 and osm2pgsql 0.66 with Kubuntu 9.10 Could somebody help? Merci! Sorry, I can't help you with this one. If you don't get a response here, then try reposting on the developers mailing list at d...@openstreetmap.org Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 07:06:42 +, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 02:44:53AM +0100, Frederik Ramm wrote: Oh yes it does, because if someone isn't active any more it will become harder and harder to get an opinion out of him. Someone who is not active any more will often have lost interest or lost his life, that's why, while desirable, it is not practical to give them a say. No one organisation should need to have the advantage of effectively all rights to the data. Unless that is the only way of ensuring that everyone continues to have the advantage of effectively all rights to the data and that organisation is OSM. ;-) - Rob. ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
Ok, Now I got you, basically anybody that might be able to claim to be copyright holder of any data we put into the database might be able to open a lawsuit against us to exhaust us out of business, not necessary to win the case. With the list of potential sources of information that can be claimd copied, and even without hard evidence, than we must be extra carefull in screaning the sources we use. We know for a fact that Google, Yahoo, TeleAtlas, Ordinance Survey, any other mapping authority, and large commercial maps, have enough resources each to keep a case like this going for years. We must find a procedure to avoid such lawsuits. i.e. show us where some community members have copied you and we remove the information from your sources kind of response to any claims of copyright infrigements. Isn't there a legal team in OSMF? This should be on their table. - I think we have to have a planned response to claimed copyright infridgements, even if we have a strict policy about no using copyrighted sources. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: But I ask if it is valid for OSM or not, I know SCO vs * was extreme, but that doesn't mean it is valid for us. Can you point on some similarities in evidence, cercumstances, factors that can make this a valid case? If not it is the same as Larry Flynt vs America or most lawsuits. I'm not claiming there are any simularitied between the legal action SCO was undertaking and OSM, I was claiming it's possible to launch a friverlous lawsuit with no basis and keep it going on for years and effectively bankrupt the competition in the process. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians
I have seen tendences to an edit war on Key:religion [1] with a possible spread to Key:denomination [2]. No matter if Pastafarianism is a legimit religion or not, this edit war will not benefit anybody. I have added a section on Talk:Key:religion where those oposing the Pastafarians being represented on Key:religion can express their reasons, and those for representation can defend why it is there. As far as I know pastafarianism is a registered and approved religion in a few countries. If tagging of pastafarian should be different, than an alternative tagging must be suggested. In my opinion OSM must be open for more religions, and I am tempted to include tagging of such as Church of the SubGenius, Scientologists, and other wierd religions, including UFO sects. After reading what damage some sects can do, information about their locations is not only of interest to their followers, but also people looking for good locations to settle down, job opertunities other places, or schools for our kids, and knowing which religions are present, for good and for bad might be important for the final decission. In other words, stop the edit war, discuss pros and cons on the talk page, and be open to include more rather than remove. If it is concluded as not a religion than find alternative tagging. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:religion [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:denomination ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: I was claiming it's possible to launch a friverlous lawsuit with no basis and keep it going on for years and effectively bankrupt the competition in the process. OSMF is located in the UK, right? Doesn't the UK have laws which protect organizations from friverlous lawsuits? If not, the first step in avoiding such a lawsuit would be to reincorporate in another state with sane laws. That would likely work much better than not ever doing anything, because someone might potentially launch a frivolous lawsuit over anything. The latter is exactly the Pascal's Wager style thinking that is holding back OSM from reaching its potential. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians
In other words, stop the edit war, discuss pros and cons on the talk page, and be open to include more rather than remove. If it is concluded as not a religion than find alternative tagging. [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:religion [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:denomination Frederik's comment about the on-the-ground-rule is right on. Before reading the talk page, I was thinking: we only put places_of_worship on the map when there is a place on the ground that is self-labeled a place of worship and (more or less) the community views it as such as evidenced by holding services of some kind with some attendance. This latter part is necessary to exclude Joe putting up a church of Joe in his front yard; the town would then say joe is a nutcase, as opposed to if he held services weekly and 20 people came, where they'd say something more like but I suppose it's a church. Perhaps those who want to include Pastafarianism should send in links to pictures of churches, together with descriptions of how they pass the 'act like a church' and 'viewed by the community as a church' tests in their local community. As for 'this group thinks this mountain is a sacred place, but there's no sign', I think there needs to be a widely recognized by the community test. For example, it might be reasonable to put the 4 main vortexes in Sedona on the map, but not the other 100 that everyone claims is on their property. (The main 4 pass the test that if you go to Sedona and walk around and ask random people they will know about them, more or less.) We should remember that the purpose of maps is to represent reality to map users, not to make political points. It's hard to tell which is going on here, but if no one comes up with pictures of worship houses for disputed religions, it seems like a frivolous argument. pgpPJq6ESAC94.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
office=lawyer should definitely exist if it doesn't exist it should be added, any reason not to add this feature? On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: I suggested some time ago to use a new general key for such things (when it's not really an amenity, a shop or a leisure like for lawyers, architects, designers, etc) : office=notary Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
I like the idea of office=laywer, office=notary maybe we need this, no? On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:22 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote: I suggested some time ago to use a new general key for such things (when it's not really an amenity, a shop or a leisure like for lawyers, architects, designers, etc) : office=notary Yeah, I agree amenity is overused. Also perhaps business=notary? But if the term is so confusing, maybe find something else, like public_official or something. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 05.01.2010 17:41, schrieb Valent Turkovic: I have found that only Turks have public notary as mapping feature (amenity=notary) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tr:Map_Features Do you think we should make this a official mapping feature? No, OSMDoc tells us that it is used only two times on the whole planet. Map Features should probably tell you what tags are in use, not what people think should be in use in the future. What is the correct way making amenity=notary an official mapping feature? Use it more often in real mapping life :-) I'm not against amenity=notary, but it really has to be used more often ... I didn't use it BECAUSE it is not listed as legal POI on OSM wiki. Am I doing it wrong? I didn't understand that people just use keys that they want no matter it there aren't listed in OSM features list on Wiki... -- pratite me na twitteru - www.twitter.com/valentt http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic, msn: valent.turko...@hotmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians
Greg, Greg Troxel wrote: and (more or less) the community views it as such as evidenced by holding services of some kind with some attendance. This latter part is necessary to exclude Joe putting up a church of Joe in his front yard; the town would then say joe is a nutcase, as opposed to if he held services weekly and 20 people came, where they'd say something more like but I suppose it's a church. I think that people sometimes tag wayside crosses or little shrines as places of worship, even if they serve only the occasional rambler or maybe a procession of catholics once a year. I'd be wary of putting up such requirements. They get you into trouble because it may well be that if the Church of Joe attracts a drunken crowd once each year for Joe's birthday, his Church may be visited more often than some obscure shrine on the side of a mountain somewhere, and then you're fully into a yours is not a proper religion but mine is argument. We should remember that the purpose of maps is to represent reality to map users, not to make political points. It's hard to tell which is going on here, but if no one comes up with pictures of worship houses for disputed religions, it seems like a frivolous argument. I still think that, while understandable, going down this way will deny a lot of established religions some of *their* places of worship. Bye Frederik ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
Am 06.01.2010 15:41, schrieb Valent Turkovic: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 6:21 PM, Ulf Lampingulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: I'm not against amenity=notary, but it really has to be used more often ... I didn't use it BECAUSE it is not listed as legal POI on OSM wiki. Am I doing it wrong? I didn't understand that people just use keys that they want no matter it there aren't listed in OSM features list on Wiki... Wrong and legal are such hard words ;-) First and foremost: You can tag what you like. If there's no such thing in the Map Features and a search in the wiki proposals also provides no good matching alternative, it's a lot better to tag something in your own tag words than not map it at all. But please don't expect that it will be rendered anytime soon :-) Obviously, it's a good idea that there's a certain agreement among mappers to tag common things in the same way, so software like renderers, routers have a chance to do their job. That's the reason why looking in the wiki first is a good idea. Anyway, please read the start of the map features page, which sums up this topic probably better than I can do. Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:56 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm newbie on OSM and as I can see we have only Yahoo imagery as base to map some cities on Brasil (only some bigger ones) Recently I read on wiki that a service called nearmaps host maps to be used on OSM. I know a service on Brazil that have some ortophotos free, all can use it (services that use the images only need to specify that images are from IBGE source) I would like to ask if OSM or anyone can host this images to be used on OSM. The images are here: ftp://geoftp.ibge.gov.br/mapas/ortofoto/ Will be great to Brazilian users if we have this images as base to add streets and places on OSM. Hope someone can host it, thanks. Does anyone know what the projection is on these? I can't read spanish, so I'm of no use when Googling. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Site www.freietonne.de spamming in OSM ?
Looking the history of this node:: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/444087845/history it seems that a website www.freietonne.de is sending all comments about a marina into OSM changesets. Could some Germans contact the www.freietonne.de site to stop this ? Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Site www.freietonne.de spamming in OSM ?
On 06/01/10 15:46, Pieren wrote: Looking the history of this node:: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/444087845/history it seems that a website www.freietonne.de is sending all comments about a marina into OSM changesets. Could some Germans contact the www.freietonne.de site to stop this ? I'm wondering if they are mirroring their database into OSM or something and spam in there database is infecting us? The very first changeset by that user is: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/923842 Which looks like it was a technology test. After that there are what look like automated edits of some sort - lots of silly small changesets or even empty changesets all with poor descriptions like Edit Node. The first spam I can see is last August: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2091398 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/2091569 Tom -- Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu) http://www.compton.nu/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Site www.freietonne.de spamming in OSM ?
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:27 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: I'm wondering if they are mirroring their database into OSM or something and spam in there database is infecting us? Yes. This particular node and its 104 versions has a tag called ft_link pointing to their marina object (Position bearbeiten (FT-ID: 7982 | OSM-ID: 444087845 H): http://www.freietonne.de/index.php?site=38editgps=7982 I'm not sure if it is really spamming or just people using this as a forum and each post is automatically transfered into the OSM node. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:56 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm newbie on OSM and as I can see we have only Yahoo imagery as base to map some cities on Brasil (only some bigger ones) Recently I read on wiki that a service called nearmaps host maps to be used on OSM. I know a service on Brazil that have some ortophotos free, all can use it (services that use the images only need to specify that images are from IBGE source) I would like to ask if OSM or anyone can host this images to be used on OSM. The images are here: ftp://geoftp.ibge.gov.br/mapas/ortofoto/ Will be great to Brazilian users if we have this images as base to add streets and places on OSM. Hope someone can host it, thanks. Does anyone know what the projection is on these? I can't read spanish, so I'm of no use when Googling. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk First of all it is not Spanish, but Portuguese. According to information printed on the PDF versions of the ortofotos: Projection system UTM zone 24 Vertical datum: IMBITUBA - SC Horizontal datum: SIRGAS2000 Hope that helps you ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. Ian Dees: I didn't find any alternate host. All messages about host the images are on this topic. Will you do this? If yes, let us know how it's going. And yes It's Portuguese. Really thanks. 2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:28 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:56 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm newbie on OSM and as I can see we have only Yahoo imagery as base to map some cities on Brasil (only some bigger ones) Recently I read on wiki that a service called nearmaps host maps to be used on OSM. I know a service on Brazil that have some ortophotos free, all can use it (services that use the images only need to specify that images are from IBGE source) I would like to ask if OSM or anyone can host this images to be used on OSM. The images are here: ftp://geoftp.ibge.gov.br/mapas/ortofoto/ Will be great to Brazilian users if we have this images as base to add streets and places on OSM. Hope someone can host it, thanks. Does anyone know what the projection is on these? I can't read spanish, so I'm of no use when Googling. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk First of all it is not Spanish, but Portuguese. According to information printed on the PDF versions of the ortofotos: Projection system UTM zone 24 Vertical datum: IMBITUBA - SC Horizontal datum: SIRGAS2000 Hope that helps you ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Site www.freietonne.de spamming in OSM ?
Hi, Pieren wrote: Yes. This particular node and its 104 versions has a tag called ft_link pointing to their marina object (Position bearbeiten (FT-ID: 7982 | OSM-ID: 444087845 H): http://www.freietonne.de/index.php?site=38editgps=7982 I have already alerted the guy who's running the FT editor. I don't know details about the technology involved, but FT is a sea mapping project that predates OSM and which at some point decided to stop doing their own thing and instead contribute to OSM. There is always some tension between FT and OpenSeaMap because both use slightly different tagging schemes. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on Key:religion - Pastafarians
2010/1/6 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com We should remember that the purpose of maps is to represent reality to map users, not to make political points. says who? Maps have always and in all ages been means of politics... ;-) cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. just to be sure (as you're a newby): under what kind of license are the pictures released? Do they allow commercial use of their fotos or the use in OSM for tracing? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM rewriting history : France is now part of Germany !
Finally, I got it. It's not a rendering issue but huge polygon showing the German Yahoo hi-res imagery : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/44173524 linked with other similar boxes by a multipolygon relation named Germany as outers: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/371423 I will change the relation and add a note. Pieren ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Cycleways wiki doc enhanced
2010/1/6 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Just a thought - I haven't thought this through - could relation be used to form a close relationship between a road and a track? Sorry if this has been mentioned before. See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations#Proposed_uses_of_Relations for related concepts. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Public notary (Map feature POI proposal)
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com wrote: Am 06.01.2010 15:41, schrieb Valent Turkovic: ... I didn't understand that people just use keys that they want no matter it there aren't listed in OSM features list on Wiki... ... If there's no such thing in the Map Features and a search in the wiki proposals also provides no good matching alternative, it's a lot better to tag something in your own tag words than not map it at all. If you do this, just make sure the tags that you use are self-explanatory, explicit, and verifiable. Add a note=* with more information if there's any chance you may be misunderstood. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
Hi Martin, I don't know the specific license, but the email I received said: Can be used for any purpose, need only cite the source. 2010/1/6 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. just to be sure (as you're a newby): under what kind of license are the pictures released? Do they allow commercial use of their fotos or the use in OSM for tracing? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On an email asking that they said: (roughly translation) The content in our portal is public domain. However their utilization in other portals or publications is conditioned to citing the source, when utilizing our data. It is possible to reproduce the graphs, art and images that are together, since you cite the source (IBGE). The graphs, art and images is because it is a geography and statistics institute, but I'm sure it applies to the aerial photos. We have already imported and are in process of importing GPS tracks and traces from obscure proprietary formats after conversion of roads, boundaries and so on. We just have to put the tag source=IBGE in everything and it's OK. Arlindo Nighto Pereira 2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com: Hi Martin, I don't know the specific license, but the email I received said: Can be used for any purpose, need only cite the source. 2010/1/6 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. just to be sure (as you're a newby): under what kind of license are the pictures released? Do they allow commercial use of their fotos or the use in OSM for tracing? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
I think this have been stated 3 or 4 times in this thread already, that this data is PD. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com wrote: On an email asking that they said: (roughly translation) The content in our portal is public domain. However their utilization in other portals or publications is conditioned to citing the source, when utilizing our data. It is possible to reproduce the graphs, art and images that are together, since you cite the source (IBGE). The graphs, art and images is because it is a geography and statistics institute, but I'm sure it applies to the aerial photos. We have already imported and are in process of importing GPS tracks and traces from obscure proprietary formats after conversion of roads, boundaries and so on. We just have to put the tag source=IBGE in everything and it's OK. Arlindo Nighto Pereira 2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com: Hi Martin, I don't know the specific license, but the email I received said: Can be used for any purpose, need only cite the source. 2010/1/6 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: 2010/1/6 enqd e...@ymail.com Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. just to be sure (as you're a newby): under what kind of license are the pictures released? Do they allow commercial use of their fotos or the use in OSM for tracing? cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. If you can't find anyone willing to do that, please upload the files temporarily to Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/create/) so that we can get them hosted when OpenAerialMap (or some other similar service) is up and running and able to accept them. Once you have the files uploaded there (or somewhere else where they are reasonably accessible - the host you currently have them at doesn't appear able to handle the bandwidth), send a message to the OAM mailing list (t...@openaerialmap.org). In my experience they are quite a long way from being able to help you, but hopefully a nice donation of imagery will help spur them into action. Anthony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
Hi Anthony, I follow Openaerialmap, but as you said I don't know when the service will be up. I'll wait an answer from Ian Dees to see if he will host it, so maybe when OAM be running we can transfer the data to them. 2010/1/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. If you can't find anyone willing to do that, please upload the files temporarily to Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/create/) so that we can get them hosted when OpenAerialMap (or some other similar service) is up and running and able to accept them. Once you have the files uploaded there (or somewhere else where they are reasonably accessible - the host you currently have them at doesn't appear able to handle the bandwidth), send a message to the OAM mailing list (t...@openaerialmap.org). In my experience they are quite a long way from being able to help you, but hopefully a nice donation of imagery will help spur them into action. Anthony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Copyright Assignment
On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 06:49:37AM -0500, Rob Myers wrote: Unless that is the only way of ensuring that everyone continues to have the advantage of effectively all rights to the data and that organisation is OSM. ;-) Well, yes, so why isn’t OSM just going PD (or near equivalent)? :) (Yes, I know you’d like that, Frederik.) If share-alike is truly wanted (and I know it isn’t by some), then it should truly be adopted. If the licence isn’t sufficient to provide all of the necessary rights for share-alike then how is it a share-alike licence? (To me the ODbL itself seems reasonable.) OSMF’s concern appears to be that they may need to go through yet another round of changing the licence. To mitigate that, they choose to go for contributor terms that give pretty much unlimited rights. I understand the need to progress with licensing that better fits OSM, and that the ODbL in its current form may turn out not to “fit” OSM. I don’t understand the need to give OSMF anything more than the rights given under the ODbL which includes an upgrade clause (and maybe CC-by-sa for compatibility). I’m not trying to put this on the some level as anti-terror laws, or other intrusive laws, so please try to think in perspective when I say: It rings of the inflated laws that are provided, as “national security” to combat “terrorism”. They are over-encompassing, and that’s saying it nicely. So, to “protect” OSM itself, we make people give all* rights to OSMF, instead of the minimal rights necessary. *I know there’s a clause that restricts it, but it is only restricted by vote (and the undefined and therefore ambiguous term of “a free and open license”), and is subject to abuse however unlikely the chances may be. This option should not exist. Protecting the original OSM is an admirable cause, but is something that I think does not need to be included in the contributor terms or the licence. If the licence was truly share-alike, there would be no need to specify the extra conditions on contribution*, and if anybody wanted to incorporate it back into the original OSM source, they could *I’m fully aware the GNU project requires copyright assignment. I’m an associate member of the FSF, but that doesn’t mean I agree with copyright assignment (or effectively giving all rights to another). People could contribute to OSM, OSM could provide the aggregated data, others could use it and modify it. It could go back into OSM, if allowed. I think the ODbL is reasonable with regards to the share-alike on the database, though I haven’t been through it with a fine-toothed comb, and nor do I have the legal understanding to be able to comment authoritatively. The contributor terms, however, are far too broad, and give OSMF rights above the licence itself. Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-t...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
[OSM-talk] CommonMap, announcement - Incorporation Vote 16 January
Hello everyone, If you are a Queenslander and want to see the CommonMap objectives[1] brought to life, please attend an initiation meeting at 7pm on Saturday 16th January at the Samford Valley Hotel. This event will be held in conjunction with the OpenStreetMap Samford Mapping Party[2]. However, be clear they are separate activities - you can still have dinner as an OSMmer and not worry about somehow becoming a CommonMap member without your permission. Potential attendees should make themselves familiar with the incorporation process[3] as well as the proposed agenda[4] and proposed association rules[5]. Please let me know (preferably without including osm-talk or talk-au] if you want to attend. Thanks, Brendan Morley 1. http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association_Objects 2. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Samford_Mapping_Party_January_2010 3. http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation 4. http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Agenda 5. http://commonmap.info/w/index.php/Association/Incorporation/Rules ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
It should be a good carrot for OAM to know that we are talking about 5 Brazillian states complete, if I remember right, the states of Santa Catarina, São Paulo, Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais and Goias. Too bad my state of Espírito Santo isn't covered. On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:06 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Anthony, I follow Openaerialmap, but as you said I don't know when the service will be up. I'll wait an answer from Ian Dees to see if he will host it, so maybe when OAM be running we can transfer the data to them. 2010/1/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi, I'm really happy that people want to host it. Answering questions: I'm newbie, I don't know how things works, I just would like to see the images able to be used on Potlatch, something like what Nearmaps did. If you can't find anyone willing to do that, please upload the files temporarily to Internet Archive (http://www.archive.org/create/) so that we can get them hosted when OpenAerialMap (or some other similar service) is up and running and able to accept them. Once you have the files uploaded there (or somewhere else where they are reasonably accessible - the host you currently have them at doesn't appear able to handle the bandwidth), send a message to the OAM mailing list (t...@openaerialmap.org). In my experience they are quite a long way from being able to help you, but hopefully a nice donation of imagery will help spur them into action. Anthony ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:06 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Anthony, I follow Openaerialmap, but as you said I don't know when the service will be up. I'll wait an answer from Ian Dees to see if he will host it, so maybe when OAM be running we can transfer the data to them. Can you let me know what the 4 different directories are? They seem like 4 different orthophoto projects with different data. Were they taken at different times? In different locations? Should I be downloading all 4 of the directories or just one of them? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:06 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Anthony, I follow Openaerialmap, but as you said I don't know when the service will be up. I'll wait an answer from Ian Dees to see if he will host it, so maybe when OAM be running we can transfer the data to them. Can you let me know what the 4 different directories are? They seem like 4 different orthophoto projects with different data. Were they taken at different times? In different locations? Should I be downloading all 4 of the directories or just one of them? The different directories are 4 different parts of the same project, I think with different record date, might be different zone on the UTM projection, 3 of them are for one Brazillian state each, the last are a few states (3 I think) joint. It is a total of 5 states I think, so there are plenty of overlap. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: If not, the first step in avoiding such a lawsuit would be to reincorporate in another state with sane laws. FFS. Sane laws? Think a little before you post, please. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
2010/1/6 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:40 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I was claiming it's possible to launch a friverlous lawsuit with no basis and keep it going on for years and effectively bankrupt the competition in the process. OSMF is located in the UK, right? Doesn't the UK have laws which protect As far as I'm aware there is some protections in the US, although maybe not in the state SCO launched their case, so that with enough effort you could keep a frivolous lawsuit going for years, legal protections or not, even if you don't have a scrape of proof to your claims. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Host free ortophotos to be used on OSM
Thanks Aun for explaining, Ian: any idea when we will be able to see the images? It's an easy process or take time? Any progress tell us. Thanks. 2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:06 PM, enqd e...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Anthony, I follow Openaerialmap, but as you said I don't know when the service will be up. I'll wait an answer from Ian Dees to see if he will host it, so maybe when OAM be running we can transfer the data to them. Can you let me know what the 4 different directories are? They seem like 4 different orthophoto projects with different data. Were they taken at different times? In different locations? Should I be downloading all 4 of the directories or just one of them? The different directories are 4 different parts of the same project, I think with different record date, might be different zone on the UTM projection, 3 of them are for one Brazillian state each, the last are a few states (3 I think) joint. It is a total of 5 states I think, so there are plenty of overlap. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:15 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: We must find a procedure to avoid such lawsuits. i.e. show us where some community members have copied you and we remove the information from your sources kind of response to any claims of copyright Didn't lots of people ask SCO to show proof of their claims and the people that did get to see their proof had to sign off on NDAs? As far as I know, US is the only where they tried to prosecute somebody who did a digital crime in another country, I am than thinking of Dmitri Sklyarov who had through his work reverse engineered adobe e-book format in order to make an e-book reader for blind people. The crime was comitted in Russia, where reverse engineering is (was?) a legimit way of industry. Can't remember how long he was held in a California prison, but it was quite some time before he could return to russia. He went to the states to talk on a conference on software security. But this is getting pretty OOT ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Sourcing street names - what's the policy, and why?
2010/1/7 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:15 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/6 Aun Johnsen li...@gimnechiske.org: We must find a procedure to avoid such lawsuits. i.e. show us where some community members have copied you and we remove the information from your sources kind of response to any claims of copyright Didn't lots of people ask SCO to show proof of their claims and the people that did get to see their proof had to sign off on NDAs? As far as I know, US is the only where they tried to prosecute somebody who did a digital crime in another country, I am than thinking of Dmitri Sklyarov who had through his work reverse engineered adobe e-book format in order to make an e-book reader for blind people. The crime was comitted in Russia, where reverse engineering is (was?) a legimit way of industry. Can't remember how long he was held in a California prison, but it was quite some time before he could return to russia. He went to the states to talk on a conference on software security. But this is getting pretty OOT The US did the same thing in Australia, someone was extradited to the US for something that wasn't even a crime in Australia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DrinkOrDie (under Elsewhere heading) Also CIA agents are still wanted for kidnapping in Italy. http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/5/italian_prosecutor_in_case_against_cia But of course the US wouldn't hand over Americans to another country... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Rendering subway entrances
How would one write a mapnik/osm2pgsql ruleset to render subway entrances at a certain zoom level? Example data with relations: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/359558 -- /emj ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Rendering subway entrances
2010/1/7 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: How would one write a mapnik/osm2pgsql ruleset to render subway entrances at a certain zoom level? Image of stairs going down? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] dirty revert howto
hello list, can anyone please tell me how to do a dirty revert? unfortunately by the date i received a reply from dwg another user changed the affected nodes (originally an import from google api). thank you, joe ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk-nl] quadrocopter bedienen via IPhone
Beste Talk'ers, Kwam dit net op Tweakers.net tegen: http://tweakers.net/nieuws/64718/ces-parrot-laat-minihelikopter-via-iphone-bedienen.html -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange -- Best regards, Bas de Lange http://www.basdelange.com ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] cafetaria
Al enige tijd probeer ik voor restaurants en fast food zaken ook een 'cuisine'-tag aan te geven. Mijn vraag is, wat doen we met cafetaria's als cuisine? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:cuisine stelt hier friture voor, maar ik denk dat de gemiddelde Nederlander die tag niet zal begrijpen. Op de map zelf kom ik zowel snackbar als cafetaria tegen - volgens mij min of meer hetzelfde. Ik zou graag zien dat we hier één waarde voor konden afspreken - maar welke dan? -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] cafetaria
Andre Engels wrote: cafetaria tegen - volgens mij min of meer hetzelfde. Ik zou graag zien dat we hier één waarde voor konden afspreken - maar welke dan? Ik praat puur voor mezelf: ik heb eerder een paar keer cuisine=dutch_snackbar gebruikt, met het idee dat dat uniek genoeg is om later terug te vinden en te hertaggen als er iets beters is. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Copyright questions
Steve Bennett wrote: Interesting. What strikes me about the street names thing is that in general, there's actually no way to prove it, other than by the person's own admission. Whereas with copyright breach in general, you can show a similarity between two expressions of an idea. But with streets, there is really only one way to express "Thompson St". (Well, two if you count "Street"...) Steve You're right, Steve, there is no way to prove it. What we need to be sure of is that our own actions are ethical, and in the spirit of OSM. I do use a street directory, along with some online sources, to verify street names, or to check spelling. I don't have any qualms about it, and I hope with my explanation that others will feel comfortable also. Richard ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Error with Grose Rd Faulconbridge NSW
John Smith wrote: 2010/1/5 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au: I was testing the Garmin's route instructions on some familiar roads today. Normally it says "SW on Northern Road to Roundabout", followed by "2nd exit on roundabout" or similar. but one part came out as ""SW on Northern Road to Northern Road", which seemed pretty meaningless. Checked the roundabout in question - yes, it is named as "Northern Road". I've deleted the name, and when it gets updated, I'll try that route again. Seems like a good case for not naming roundabouts, though. I doubt that roundabout is named "Northern Road" also most bridges have different names than the roads, these should be tagged properly, rather than left unnamed if there is a name :) The roundabout was named as "The Northern Road" in the OSM data - the same name as the road to the north and south of it. Richard ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Copyright questions
One that amuses me often, is between Canberra and Batemans Bay. Theres a small rural street which is shown as 'Black Sally Lane' on both google, whereis and my Navman GPS, however OSM shows the name printed on the street sign, which is 'Black Sallee Lane'. David On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 23:41 +1100, Michael Hampson wrote: There are street names I have seen on Google that are wrong and I guess there are others if you went looking. (Don't mention the streets that just aren't there.) Regards, Michael On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:19 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/5 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Interesting. What strikes me about the street names thing is that in general, there's actually no way to prove it, other than by the person's own admission. Whereas with copyright breach in general, you can show a similarity between two expressions of an idea. But with streets, there is really only one way to express Thompson St. (Well, two if you count Street...) What if it isn't Thompson St? You just got caught copying. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Error with Grose Rd Faulconbridge NSW
2010/1/6 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au: The roundabout was named as The Northern Road in the OSM data - the same name as the road to the north and south of it. I meant in reality, most roundabouts aren't named, although some are. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Copyright questions
2010/1/6 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au: You're right, Steve, there is no way to prove it. What we need to be sure of is that our own actions are ethical, and in the spirit of OSM. I do use a street directory, along with some online sources, to verify street names, or to check spelling. I don't have any qualms about it, and I hope with my explanation that others will feel comfortable also. I wouldn't mention that on the main talk list, some even claim using commercial maps to come up with a navigation route to produce GPX files is some how an infringement but I think that is rather impossible because nothing is copied from the map, the map is used only for directions. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Error with Grose Rd Faulconbridge NSW
John Smith wrote: 2010/1/6 Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au: The roundabout was named as "The Northern Road" in the OSM data - the same name as the road to the north and south of it. I meant in reality, most roundabouts aren't named, although some are. It's not named in reality either. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Copyright questions
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 9:15 PM, Richard Colless fire...@ar.com.au wrote: You're right, Steve, there is no way to prove it. What we need to be sure of is that our own actions are ethical, and in the spirit of OSM. I *do*use a street directory, along with some online sources, to verify street names, or to check spelling. I don't have any qualms about it, and I hope with my explanation that others will feel comfortable also. Yes, I'm reaching the conclusion that there is a spectrum of dodginess ranging from blatant copying of large numbers of coordinates down to much more minor checks of spelling, use of other maps for directions etc. The further you get from the blatant end, the more people's opposition seems to be motivated by ideology, aesthetics, unstated reasons etc. That's ok. It has occurred to me that in some ways it would be useful to blatantly copy streets from other sources, and mark them TODO or something, with just start and end points. They wouldn't render in the main map, but might render in some specialist maps for OSM people. They would make it a lot easier to know which streets you needed to go and map. Then you'd delete the copied one, and only use the real data. I think it would be legitimate, but far too fraught to propose seriously. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Default access restrictions
I've created an entry on the default access restrictions wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Australia Now we can debate each line: === Motorway=== I left this as default. In Australia, some freeways allow bikes and farm machinery, some don't. The Western Highway/freeway in Melbourne does, for example, but the Eastern Freeway doesn't. Comments? ===Trunk=== Default. Ok? ===Primary etc=== Default. Ok? ===Pedestrian=== I wasn't sure whether to put bike in or not. Some pedestrian areas (eg, Bourke St in Melbourne) prohibit bikes. But I would have thought the default would be that you could ride through, albeit slowly, and bicycle=no can be added as appropriate. Probably most small town pedestrian malls allow them? Comments? ===Path=== Default is ok. ===Bridleway=== I would have said we don't have these, except I think I found one on the outskirts of the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. With the tiny bit of traffic they must receive, I can't imagine that pedestrians would be banned, and bikes probably wouldn't be either. So, horse=designated, bicycle=yes, foot=yes. ===Cycleway=== I would say shared use paths vastly outnumber bike-only paths, so I propose bicycle=designated foot=designated. Horse...no? Paths that allow horses, like rail trails, aren't too rare, but can be catered for easily enough. ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on *footpaths* - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. Discuss. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
2010/1/6 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: I've created an entry on the default access restrictions wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#Australia Now we can debate each line: ===Trunk=== Default. Ok? There are some trunk roads in Perth that have motorway-style restrictions, but they are the exception. ===Primary etc=== Default. Ok? I'm a little dubious over foot=yes, but that seems to be the way it's done everywhere else. ===Bridleway=== I would have said we don't have these, except I think I found one on the outskirts of the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. With the tiny bit of traffic they must receive, I can't imagine that pedestrians would be banned, and bikes probably wouldn't be either. So, horse=designated, bicycle=yes, foot=yes. The bridleways I know are soft sand, not suiteable for cycling at all. The Bold Park bridle trail doesn't allow pedestrians: http://www.bgpa.wa.gov.au/images/stories/boldpark/docs/BPMapwithtrails.pdf ===Cycleway=== I would say shared use paths vastly outnumber bike-only paths, so I propose bicycle=designated foot=designated. Horse...no? Paths that allow horses, like rail trails, aren't too rare, but can be catered for easily enough. +1 ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on *footpaths* - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. Regular footpaths far outnumber any other type of footpath though - most urban roads will have one, if not two footpaths alongside. And with the Nearmap imagery it's quite feasible to map them. This ties into foot=yes for regular roads - if we're mapping footpaths, arguably roads should be foot=no. James Andrewartha ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Copyright questions
David Murn wrote: One that amuses me often, is between Canberra and Batemans Bay. Theres a small rural street which is shown as 'Black Sally Lane' on both google, whereis and my Navman GPS, however OSM shows the name printed on the street sign, which is 'Black Sallee Lane'. Both are accepted spellings for the tree Eucalyptus stellulata, although only one is correct when used as a street name of course. It's also known as the black snowgum. snowgum ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, Steve Bennett wrote: ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on footpaths - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. varies state by state so i think if you are in state where riding on the foot path is allowed you have to add it as an extra. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: ===Cycleway=== I would say shared use paths vastly outnumber bike-only paths, so I propose bicycle=designated foot=designated. Horse...no? Paths that allow horses, like rail trails, aren't too rare, but can be catered for easily enough. Shared use paths do outnumber bike-only paths, so your suggestion probably makes sense. HOWEVER, I would strongly prefer that these are tagged as highway=path + foot=designated + bicycle=designated, as it is much more explicit (and this kind of approach avoids the need altogether for http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions). I'm not sure if this suggestion is within the scope of this thread, though. ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on *footpaths* - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. I would prefer foot=designated + bicycle=no. If an Australian tags highway=footway, I think it would be reasonably expected that bikes aren't allowed by default. Again, as in the case of cycleway, I would prefer, though, that these are tagged as highway=path + foot=* + bicycle=*, as a NSWelshman might use highway=footway differently to, say, a QLDer. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Maposmatic Maps
Hi, Great maps ! Although the Armidale map shows street names and the Carnarvon one doesn't regards Darylr ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:17 AM, James Andrewartha tr...@student.uwa.edu.auwrote: ===Bridleway=== I would have said we don't have these, except I think I found one on the outskirts of the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. With the tiny bit of traffic they must receive, I can't imagine that pedestrians would be banned, and bikes probably wouldn't be either. So, horse=designated, bicycle=yes, foot=yes. The bridleways I know are soft sand, not suiteable for cycling at all. The Bold Park bridle trail doesn't allow pedestrians: http://www.bgpa.wa.gov.au/images/stories/boldpark/docs/BPMapwithtrails.pdf I don't know, I've only seen one. It was sandy, but still rideable. I didn't think it was banned to bikes. Then again, looking at the aerial photos, I saw some of those horizontal wooden poles that seem designed to let horses in but block bikes and motorbikes. So maybe you're right, horse=designated bicycle=no - by default. I think the trail I saw is described here: http://www.casey.vic.gov.au/masterplans/article.asp?Item=12652 (in minimal detail) Anyway there are relatively few bridleways in Australia, and we're probably only going to use the tag for these well-defined trails, so...yeah I think you're right. ===Primary etc=== Default. Ok? I'm a little dubious over foot=yes, but that seems to be the way it's done everywhere else. ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on *footpaths* - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. Regular footpaths far outnumber any other type of footpath though - most urban roads will have one, if not two footpaths alongside. And with the Nearmap imagery it's quite feasible to map them. This ties into foot=yes for regular roads - if we're mapping footpaths, arguably roads should be foot=no. Yeah: highway=tertiary foot=yes doesn't mean people can walk on this road, it means people can follow this road on foot to get somewhere - ie, on the footpaths on the side. And, since we're not mapping footpaths (I seem to recall there was an explicit rule to not map them), it's safe for highway=footway to imply bicycle=yes. Unless anyone thinks that most non-footpath footways (ie, ones that don't run along the side of a road, crossing driveways) are banned to cyclists? Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Maposmatic Maps
2010/1/7 dar...@tpg.com.au: Hi, Great maps ! Although the Armidale map shows street names and the Carnarvon one doesn't Carnarvon was only mapped from imagery, and I don't think anyone has attempted to contact the local council to get names, or driven through the town to obtain them either. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
2010/1/7 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: ===Footway== Now, bicycles aren't allowed on *footpaths* - ie, the path that runs along the side of the road. But they're generally allowed on most other paths, like into or through parks, around sports grounds etc. So I propose foot=designated bicycle=yes. I would prefer foot=designated + bicycle=no. If an Australian tags highway=footway, I think it would be reasonably expected that bikes aren't allowed by default. Why? Just because you happen to live in a state where that happens to be the case, doesn't mean I do. If I tagged a footpath, I would expect bikes ARE allowed by default, because they are here. Setting defaults for this is going to be instinctively wrong for a lot of mappers, most of whom won't ever see this page. So far, I've been told that Vic and NSW don't allow riding on unsigned footpaths by adults, ACT and QLD do. Anybody know the rules for the other states? By the way, what's the current difference between bicycle=designated and bicycle=yes? I thought I knew, but skimming through all the posts in the various lists for the last few days has left me confused again. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 10:49 +1000, Stephen Hope wrote: Why? Just because you happen to live in a state where that happens to be the case, doesn't mean I do. If I tagged a footpath, I would expect bikes ARE allowed by default, because they are here. Setting defaults for this is going to be instinctively wrong for a lot of mappers, most of whom won't ever see this page. So far, I've been told that Vic and NSW don't allow riding on unsigned footpaths by adults, ACT and QLD do. Anybody know the rules for the other states? Im fairly sure ACT law doesnt allow riding on footpaths, only designated bicycle paths. A quick google, shows SA[0] and WA[1] have the same rules. It appears that the QLD rules are different to the rest of the country, so if we adopted a national standard, only QLD mappers would be affected by their states differing laws. By the way, what's the current difference between bicycle=designated and bicycle=yes? I thought I knew, but skimming through all the posts in the various lists for the last few days has left me confused again. From a quick skim of the wiki, it seems that 'bicycle=yes' means that bicycles are allowed on the way, where 'bicycle=designated' means the bike has right of way. Bikes have right of way on designated cycle paths, but while theyre allowed on (most) roads, they dont have right of way. David [0] http://www.sa.gov.au/upload/franchise/Transport,%20travel%20and% 20motoring/Cycling/Cycling%20%20the%20Law%20Booklet.pdf (p16) [1] http://rac.com.au/about-us/community/road-safety/safe-roads.aspx ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
David Murn wrote: Im fairly sure ACT law doesnt allow riding on footpaths, only designated bicycle paths. All footpaths are shared paths (foot and bicycle traffic) in the ACT. John ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
Nope. See this: http://www.netspeed.com.au/cr/bicycle/features/footpath.htm in particular: LEGISLATION Legal authority to enable cyclists to use all footpaths was provided in a 1974 amendment of the ACT Traffic Act 1937 (2), which stated that: A person shall not - ...drive, ride or wheel a vehicle, other than a bicycle... on a footpath This amendment was constrained by only two other sections of the Act. Firstly, that a person should not ride a bicycle on a footpath where No Bicycles signs had been erected, and secondly, that a person should not ride a bicycle within 10 metres of a shop doorway at a time when that shop is open... Since the enactment of the above legislation, there has been only one instance where it has been deemed appropriate to install No Bicycles signs on footpaths. This was where the city administration wished to discourage bicycles within the congested City bus interchange, where the bus operators considered cyclists to be a safety hazard to buses moving through the interchange. In addition to this blanket approval to cycle on footpaths, the 1974 legislation went further in providing for the gazettal of Bicycle Paths. These are paths restricted to use by bicycle riders only. All other persons, whether a pedestrian, vehicle driver or a person leading an animal were to be excluded. In practice however, the Bicycle Path legislation proved unworkable in terms of definition and enforcement, and the Section was repealed in 1990. The present position in the ACT is therefore that all footpaths are available for joint use by pedestrians and cyclists. But especially this: http://www.tams.act.gov.au/move/cycling/cycling_and_walking_map/road_rules jim On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 1:02 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Im fairly sure ACT law doesnt allow riding on footpaths, only designated bicycle paths. A quick google, shows SA[0] and WA[1] have the same rules. It appears that the QLD rules are different to the rest of the country, so if we adopted a national standard, only QLD mappers would be affected by their states differing laws. -- _ Jim Croft ~ jim.cr...@gmail.com ~ +61-2-62509499 ~ http://www.google.com/profiles/jim.croft 'A civilized society is one which tolerates eccentricity to the point of doubtful sanity.' - Robert Frost, poet (1874-1963) ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
2010/1/7 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au: On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 10:49 +1000, Stephen Hope wrote: From a quick skim of the wiki, it seems that 'bicycle=yes' means that bicycles are allowed on the way, where 'bicycle=designated' means the bike has right of way. Bikes have right of way on designated cycle paths, but while theyre allowed on (most) roads, they dont have right of way. This was my basic understanding as well, which is why I get confused when I see people talking about marking paths with stuff like bicycle=designated and foot=designated. They can't both have right of way. Apart from specified bicycle lanes on streets, I can't think of any paths I'd mark as designated around here, then. Even on paths marked and signed as part of regional bicycle routes, bikes must give way to pedestrians. Stephen ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:49 PM, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: This was my basic understanding as well, which is why I get confused when I see people talking about marking paths with stuff like bicycle=designated and foot=designated. They can't both have right of way. Are you confusing the australian term right of way (ie, when two people meet, which one of them has to stop and let the other one pass) with the British term right of way (the right to pass through an area)? On Australian bike paths, afaik, *neither* bikes nor pedestrians have right of way. On some trails with horses, the horses get right of way - everyone else is asked to move out of the way. There may be some bike paths where pedestrians get right of way...but that's really not what this debate is about. Apart from specified bicycle lanes on streets, I can't think of any paths I'd mark as designated around here, then. Even on paths marked and signed as part of regional bicycle routes, bikes must give way to pedestrians. Still bicycle=designated, foot=designated I think. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Default access restrictions
On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/1/7 David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au: On Thu, 2010-01-07 at 10:49 +1000, Stephen Hope wrote: From a quick skim of the wiki, it seems that 'bicycle=yes' means that bicycles are allowed on the way, where 'bicycle=designated' means the bike has right of way. Bikes have right of way on designated cycle paths, but while theyre allowed on (most) roads, they dont have right of way. This was my basic understanding as well, which is why I get confused when I see people talking about marking paths with stuff like bicycle=designated and foot=designated. They can't both have right of way. No. bicycle=yes means it's legal for bicycles (The public has an official, legally-enshrined right of access). bicycle=designated means it's designated for bicycles (The way is a preferred/designated route, has been specially designated (typically by a government) for use by a particular mode (or modes) of transport) - I usually interpret designated as signed, which is an attractive interpretation because it's verifiable. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [Talk-br] Fotos Áereas e Ortofotos do IBGE no Op enstreetmap
Oi Ednei, Eu recebi uma resposta parecida com a sua, há um tempo atrás. O que eles dizem é que os dados são de domínio público, desde que citada a fonte. Abs, Vitor -- Forwarded message -- From: Atendimento IBGE i...@ibge.gov.br Date: 2009/1/8 Subject: Dúvidas sobre as informações divulgadas no site Atendimento Numero:#8171/2009 - 1# To: vitor.geo...@gmail.com Atendimento Numero:#8171/2009 - 1# Prezado(a) Senhor(a), Cumpre-nos informar que os conteúdos inseridos no nosso Portal, são de domínio público. Entretanto a sua utilização, em outros Portais ou publicações, está condicionada a citação da fonte , quando da utilização dos nossos dados. É possível a reprodução dos gráficos, bem como da arte e das imagens que os acompanham , mediante a citação da fonte( IBGE). Atenciosamente, Equipe de Atendimento === 2010/1/4 Ednei Ramthum do Amaral edneirama...@ig.com.br Encaixei os mapas na discussão por conta da resposta do Vitor: A princípio os dados gerados pelo IBGE são de domínio público. Tenho dúvida quanto a isso, tanto para as fotos qnt para os mapas. Acho melhor verificar com o IBGE antes, de acordo com a política do OSM de estar bem seguro com relação à situação legal das contribuições. 2010/1/4 enqd e...@ymail.com Como o Aun disse, seria necessário hospedar os mapas em um servidor wms. Ednei, acho que você entendeu errado. Nesse caso seria para usar ortofotos, imagens aereas, logo essas substituiriam as do Yahoo em certos locais, dando maior visibilidade (resolução). 2010/1/4 Ednei Ramthum do Amaral edneirama...@ig.com.br Pode ser que eu não tenha sabido perguntar direito... Mas já perguntei uma vez pelo contato do site do IBGE se poderia usar os mapas do IBGE para mapear no OSM e a resposta foi essa: Prezado(a) Senhor(a), A política do IBGE de disseminação de informações estatísticas e geocientíficas não contempla a modalidade de disponibilizar o produto do seu trabalho em sites de terceitros. Dados selecionados de publicações do IBGE apresentadas em tabelas, gráficos e mapas, que tenham como fonte exclusiva o IBGE, podem ser utilizados por terceiros, devendo ser citado como o fonte o IBGE. Atenciosamente, Equipe de Atendimento Se todos os dados do IBGE forem de domínio público, poderemos mapear boa parte das ruas de cidades médias e pequenas brasileiras (desde que o Yahoo tenha imagens pra gente se basear), pois o IBGE tem mapas de ruas de diversas dessas cidades, algumas com bairros - e com setor censitário, se quisermos. Se alguém mais quiser tentar: i...@ibge.gov.br Posso enviar também cópia dos emails que já troquei com eles. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Fotos Áereas e Ortofotos do IBGE no Op enstreetmap
Olá pessoal, postei na lista em Inglês do OSM a respeito da hospedagem das ortofotos do IBGE e algumas pessoas se dispuseram a ajudar nesse sentido, veja o tópico para ler as respostas: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-January/046733.html 2010/1/6 Vitor George vitor.geo...@gmail.com Oi Ednei, Eu recebi uma resposta parecida com a sua, há um tempo atrás. O que eles dizem é que os dados são de domínio público, desde que citada a fonte. Abs, Vitor -- Forwarded message -- From: Atendimento IBGE i...@ibge.gov.br Date: 2009/1/8 Subject: Dúvidas sobre as informações divulgadas no site Atendimento Numero:#8171/2009 - 1# To: vitor.geo...@gmail.com Atendimento Numero:#8171/2009 - 1# Prezado(a) Senhor(a), Cumpre-nos informar que os conteúdos inseridos no nosso Portal, são de domínio público. Entretanto a sua utilização, em outros Portais ou publicações, está condicionada a citação da fonte , quando da utilização dos nossos dados. É possível a reprodução dos gráficos, bem como da arte e das imagens que os acompanham , mediante a citação da fonte( IBGE). Atenciosamente, Equipe de Atendimento === 2010/1/4 Ednei Ramthum do Amaral edneirama...@ig.com.br Encaixei os mapas na discussão por conta da resposta do Vitor: A princípio os dados gerados pelo IBGE são de domínio público. Tenho dúvida quanto a isso, tanto para as fotos qnt para os mapas. Acho melhor verificar com o IBGE antes, de acordo com a política do OSM de estar bem seguro com relação à situação legal das contribuições. 2010/1/4 enqd e...@ymail.com Como o Aun disse, seria necessário hospedar os mapas em um servidor wms. Ednei, acho que você entendeu errado. Nesse caso seria para usar ortofotos, imagens aereas, logo essas substituiriam as do Yahoo em certos locais, dando maior visibilidade (resolução). 2010/1/4 Ednei Ramthum do Amaral edneirama...@ig.com.br Pode ser que eu não tenha sabido perguntar direito... Mas já perguntei uma vez pelo contato do site do IBGE se poderia usar os mapas do IBGE para mapear no OSM e a resposta foi essa: Prezado(a) Senhor(a), A política do IBGE de disseminação de informações estatísticas e geocientíficas não contempla a modalidade de disponibilizar o produto do seu trabalho em sites de terceitros. Dados selecionados de publicações do IBGE apresentadas em tabelas, gráficos e mapas, que tenham como fonte exclusiva o IBGE, podem ser utilizados por terceiros, devendo ser citado como o fonte o IBGE. Atenciosamente, Equipe de Atendimento Se todos os dados do IBGE forem de domínio público, poderemos mapear boa parte das ruas de cidades médias e pequenas brasileiras (desde que o Yahoo tenha imagens pra gente se basear), pois o IBGE tem mapas de ruas de diversas dessas cidades, algumas com bairros - e com setor censitário, se quisermos. Se alguém mais quiser tentar: i...@ibge.gov.br Posso enviar também cópia dos emails que já troquei com eles. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
[Talk-br] Importacao do Vitoria
Oi gente Com ajuda do Hackermike/h4ck3rm1k3/Mike DuPonte, eu tem um planemetria de Vitoria do .dwg convertido pela .osm dados. Agora eu trabalhando marcar as ruas do Vitoria e preparar para importar os dados. Nao poder importar os dados direito, tem muito obras manual para fazer. Algum quer me ajuda manda um notica aqui o no OSM site, e eu vai manda link pela os dados para voces. Tudos os ruas e marciado como highway=road com source=Planimetria de Vitoria. Vai precicar alguns controlar os dados depois, Eu nao vai connetar os dados do importacao direito pela os dados ja no OSM, parecendo que tem um pouco differencia do alignment. Voces que morar no Vitoria, ou visitando poder ajuda, eu vai ver eu poder verificar alguns conecoes tambem. Achou que os primeros dados vai fica importado no dia 15, e quer fazer o maioridad de dados pronto para este dia. Eu nao sei quanto tempo eu tem para preparar dados depois este dia. ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Präsentationsmappe
Suche mal die Präsentation raus, die ein User und ich vor einiger Zeit beim Katasteramt vorgeführt haben. dafür würde ich das auch als erstes gerne nutzen ! gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] TMC Validator
Moin, Sven Anders schrieb: In der Hoffung das damit das Thema TMC vielleicht ein paar mehr Leuten näher gebracht werden kann. Super, jetzt kann auch ich die kryptischen Daten zuordnen. Alternativ kann man unter: http://osm-tmc.anders-hamburg.de/area.php?lcd=1 Verstehe ja, das im TMC nicht alle Gemeinden und Straßen enthalten sein müssen. In der obigen Auflistung fehlen aber auch Roads und Segmente, denen über die Karte eindeutig TMC-Codes zugeordnet werden (können/sollen). Beispiele: B502, L211, B202-Segmente (Permalink siehe unten) Weitere Frage: Einige TMC-Points (sic!, nicht Area, die habe ich jeweils auf die Gemeinde-Relation gelegt) liegen quasi im Ortskern der Gemeinde bzw. auf oder in der Nähe der früheren Hauptverbindungswege. Macht es Sinn, diese Punkte auf die heutigen Hauptverbindungswege zu verschieben, insbesondere, wenn dann die PrevLocationCode und NextLocationCode besser in die Reihe passen? Beispiel: Heikendorf, Schönkirchen Beide Punkte habe ich vorerst auf die B502 gelegt. Permalink: http://osm-tmc.anders-hamburg.de/?zoom=13lat=54.35301lon=10.21654layers=0BT Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mautbrücken
Stefano meinte wohl keine mautpflichtigen Brücken, sondern die Schnellstraßen überspannenden Konstruktionen zur Mauterfassung: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mautbrücke Genau die meinte ich. :-) Stefano ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mautbrücken
Am 05.01.10 14:05, schrieb Mirko Küster: wie werden die deutschen Mautbrücken getaggt? Aktuell noch nichts offizielles. Nimm doch vorerst erstmal als Node oder Way: highway=toll_bridge operator=Toll Collect GmbH Ok, das ist ja mal ein Anfang. Stefano ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mautbrücken
Moin ! Sollte nicht ein Node highway=tollbridge ausreichen ?? Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] TMC Validator
Am 5. Januar 2010 17:56 schrieb Sven Anders s...@anders-hamburg.de: Verbesserungsvorschläge gerne an die Liste: Hohe Prio: - Die Punkte eines Segments sollten wie bei den Roads sortiert dargestellt werden. bsp. http://osm-tmc.anders-hamburg.de/segment.php?lcd=8531 - Es soll geprüft werden, ob alle Points/Segments im Segment oder Road vorhanden sind bzw. die OSM-Wege die Points enthalten. - Bei schon eingetragenen TMC-LCD sollten die OSM-Tags ebenfalls angezeigt werden. Die schon vorhandenen Einträge sollte dann mit vorhanden etc. gekennzeichnet werden. Dies ist hilfreich, wenn das TMC-Element falsch eingetragen wurde. -Kommentierfunktion, bspw. für Points, welche durch Straßenverlegung jetzt an einem anderen Standort sind. ... tbc ... Nebensächlich: - Anzeige der Areas, Segmente oder Roads auf der Karte Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] TMC Validator
Am 6. Januar 2010 11:34 schrieb Georg Feddern ne...@bavarianmallet.de: Weitere Frage: Einige TMC-Points (sic!, nicht Area, die habe ich jeweils auf die Gemeinde-Relation gelegt) liegen quasi im Ortskern der Gemeinde bzw. auf oder in der Nähe der früheren Hauptverbindungswege. Macht es Sinn, diese Punkte auf die heutigen Hauptverbindungswege zu verschieben, insbesondere, wenn dann die PrevLocationCode und NextLocationCode besser in die Reihe passen? Beispiel: Heikendorf, Schönkirchen Beide Punkte habe ich vorerst auf die B502 gelegt. Permalink: http://osm-tmc.anders-hamburg.de/?zoom=13lat=54.35301lon=10.21654layers=0BT Halte ich für richtig, wenn die Points an veränderte Straßenveraufsbedingungen angepasst werden, da die Points Stützpunkte der Bundestraße darstellen. Ich habe jedoch keine Ahnung wie dies in kommerziellen Karten gehandhabt oder vom TMC-Anbieter ausgestrahlt wird. Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Mautbrücken
sorry habe posting von mirko mit highway=toll_bridge operator=Toll Collect GmbH nicht gelesen! hat einer schon eine idee für ein symbol in josm ? gruß Jan :-) 06.01.2010 11:47, schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Moin ! Sollte nicht ein Node highway=tollbridge ausreichen ?? Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Bereinigung von Werten max....
Hi ! ich habe mir in der letzten Zeit vermehr die Max-Values angesehen und festgestellt das viele verschiedene Schreibweisen vorliegen für die Werte. * mit den Maßeinheiten * Punkt und Komma als Dezimaltrennung * mit 0 im Nachkomma-Bereich (unkritisch) Sollte es nicht einen Automatismus geben der diese Werte vereinheitlicht ?? Gruß jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bereinigung von Werten max....
Sollte es nicht einen Automatismus geben der diese Werte vereinheitlicht ?? Macht in meinen Augen wenig Sinn, denn keiner der von Dir beschriebenen Fälle ist falsch. Es sind, wie Du schon sagst, verschiedene Schreibweisen/Konventionen/Präferenzen und egal wie häufig Du das bereinigst es wird immer wieder jemanden geben, der Punkt- oder Komma als Dezimaltrenner verwendet (rein herkunftstechnisch). Anwendungen, die diese Tags verarbeiten wollen müssen also eh die gängisten Fälle verarbeiten können und nicht darauf hoffen, dass alle User Ihr Wunschformat nutzen. Da sollte man sich den Ärger, der mit dem automatischen Ändern von Tags einhergeht lieber sparen und die Energie anderweitig investieren. Gruß, Lars ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bereinigung von Werten max....
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: Hi ! ich habe mir in der letzten Zeit vermehr die Max-Values angesehen und festgestellt das viele verschiedene Schreibweisen vorliegen für die Werte. * mit den Maßeinheiten Standard sind die SI-Einheiten - also Meter und metrische Tonnen, die brauchen also nicht angegeben werden. Wenn die Angabe in einer anderen Einheit ist, sollte diese durch ein Leerzeichen getrennt angegeben werden. * Punkt und Komma als Dezimaltrennung Laut wiki ist der Punkt richtig (und international auch Standard). * mit 0 im Nachkomma-Bereich (unkritisch) Die Nullen nach dem Komma sollten erhalten bleiben, weil sie die Genauigkeit angeben. Dazu gab es erst auf der englischen ML (t...@...) einen kleinen Thread: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2010-January/046475.html Sollte es nicht einen Automatismus geben der diese Werte vereinheitlicht ?? ein solcher Automatismus kann nur einen Teil der möglichen Fehler ausbessern, der da reingeschrieben wird, es wird also für die schweren Fälle immer Handarbeit übrig bleiben. Einfache Dinge wie Dezimaltrennzeichen oder fehlende Leerezeichen sind einfach, allerdings sollte jeder, der die Daten auswerten will, damit rechnen und das sowieso abfangen. Eine Vereinheitlichung (solange sie nichts beschädigt) kann nicht schaden, allerdings wachsen die Fehler wohl bald wieder nach. Grüße ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Bereinigung von Werten max....
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: ich habe mir in der letzten Zeit vermehr die Max-Values angesehen und festgestellt das viele verschiedene Schreibweisen vorliegen für die Werte. Wirkt für OSM-Verhältnisse harmlos. ;-) * mit den Maßeinheiten Es ist Standard, den Wert in örtlichen Maßeinheiten anzugeben und dann auch die Einheit dazu zu schreiben. Metrische sind eben optional, was dazu führt, dass man fehlende Einheiten nicht vom Default unterscheiden kann. Zugegeben ungünstig. * Punkt und Komma als Dezimaltrennung Wie oft kommt das Komma vor? Das ist m.E. der einzige sicher erkennbare Fehler in deiner Auflistung. * mit 0 im Nachkomma-Bereich (unkritisch) Egal, kann sogar bewusste Entscheidung sein. Da gabs kürzlich schon Ärger, weil jemand angefangen hat, Werte wie 2.0 auf 2 zu vereinheitlichen. Sollte es nicht einen Automatismus geben der diese Werte vereinheitlicht ?? Es sollte Editor-Presets geben, die von vornherein für ordentliche Werte sorgen, manuelle Eintragung ist bei so etwas m.E. nur beschränkt sinnvoll. Meinetwegen kann man das alles reparieren, *nachdem* man durch Presets etwas gegen den Zufluss neuer Fehler getan hat. Ansonsten braucht es einfach mal eine strenge Anwendung, die die Werte benutzt. Tobias Knerr ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Neuer Highways View im OSM Inspector
Die Anzeige des 'Fehlers' ist also richtig, oder sehe ich das falsch? ;-) Das ist kein Fehler sondern ein noch gültiger und auch in JOSM angebotener Schlüssel. Was im Fall von simplen Bushaltestellen auch noch immer ausreichend und für Leute die durch die Relationskaskade nicht durchblicken einfacher zu handeln ist. Der public_transport=platform ist ein alternativer Schlüssel den man aus Vorliebe verwenden kann, jedoch nicht muss. Wenn das in einen Validator gehört dann nur in einen der beide Systeme für interessierte gegenüber stellt. Gruß Mirko ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] TMC Validator
Moin Ingrid, Georg Feddern schrieb: Alternativ kann man unter: http://osm-tmc.anders-hamburg.de/area.php?lcd=1 Verstehe ja, das im TMC nicht alle Gemeinden und Straßen enthalten sein müssen. In der obigen Auflistung fehlen aber auch Roads und Segmente, denen über die Karte eindeutig TMC-Codes zugeordnet werden (können/sollen). Beispiele: B502, L211, B202-Segmente Hier muss ich mich selbst korrigieren, die stehen auf der Schleswig-Holstein-Seite, da war ich zu voreilig. Gruß Georg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Relationen in Baden-Württemberg aufr äumen?
On Dienstag, 5. Januar 2010, SLXViper wrote: Werner Hoch schrieb: Die type-Tags halte ich allein deshalb für enorm wichtig, damit man das taggingschema herausfinden kann. Stimmt eigentlich. Ich hab die jetzt mal ergänzt und vereinheitlicht. Villingen und Umland bis Furtwangen und das Urachtal sollten sauber sein. Vorerst hab ich mal type=public_transport für alle Oxomoa-Relationen benutzt. Die Linien und Linienvarianten haben jetzt zusätzlich public_transport=line bzw. line_variant. Coole Sache. Das hat die Zahl der Relationen ohne type-Tags von 230 auf 84 reduziert. Ich hab jetzt mal Oxomoa kontaktiert, und warte mal auf seine Antwort. Meine Mail an Oxoma: Hallo Oxomoa, in deinen Konzepten zum public_transport-Tagging wird das type-Tag von Relationen nicht vorgegeben. Dies führt in der Praxis zu einem sehr unterschiedlichen Tagging der public_transport Relationen. Könntest du für die Relationen rund um public_transport eine Empfehlung für das type-Tag abgeben? Die Vorgabe (oder Empfehlung) würde das Mapping von neuen Relationen vereinfachen und die bestehenden Relationen könnten entsprechend vereinheitlicht werden. Mögliche type-Tags wären IHMO: type=public_transport für alle Relationstypen (stop_area, stop_area_group, line, line_variant) Dies würde zu folgender Hierarchie führen: public_transport: stop_area stop_area_group line: bus tram ... line_variant ??? Eine Buslinie würde man dann mit folgenden Tags mappen: type=public_transport, public_transport=line, line=bus Alternativ könnte für line eine separate Gruppe gebildet werden: public_transport: stop_area stop_area_group line_variant ??? line: bus tram ... Eine Buslinie würde man dann mit folgenden Tags mappen: type=line, line=bus Ich habe mal die Tags für Baden-Württemberg ausgewertet. Diese Auswertung wurde durchgeführt nachdem Mapper SLXViper bereits viele Relationen korrigiert hat: Filtertag: type=public_transport Statistiktag: public_transport 806 stop_area 81 stop_area_group 24 line_variant 12 line 7 1 stop_site 1 network Das bereits häufig verwendete type=public_transport tag führt bis auf wenige Ausnahmen zu einem sehr sauberen tagging. Sieht man sich die umgekehrte Auswertung an, so wird public_transport mit vielen verschiedenen type-Tags verwendet. Die Haltestellen (stop_area und stop_area_group) werden noch zu häufig ohne type-Tag bzw. mit type-Tag site gemappt. Filtertag: public_transport=..* Statistiktag: type 925 public_transport 26 site 24 3 public_transport_stop 2 collection 2 line 1 network 1 public_transport_stop_group Beim Tagging der Linien ist das Tagging noch uneinheitlicher. Während die das type=line zu einer sehr schönen line=Verkehrsmittel führt, ... Filtertag: type=line Statistiktag: line 60 bus 3 subway 2 rail 2 light_rail führt die Auswertung in Gegenrichtung zu einer sehr unterschiedlichen Verwendung des type-Tags. Filtertag: line=..* Statistiktag: type 67 line 55 public_transport 47 route 40 2 site Diskussion auf talk-de: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-de/2010- January/060958.html Grüße Werner ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] maxspeed=DE:Urban
Moin ! bei uns hat in Lübeck einer mit der Verwendung von maxspeed=DE:urban [1] angefangen. So ganz fürndig bin ich im Wiki noch nicht gefunden. Sollte das nun verwendet werden oder nicht - wenn ja wäre es klasse, wenn die MaxValue-Karte es entsprechend berücksichtigen würde - langfristig auch die Umsetzung bei mkgmap. Gruß jan :-) [1] http://maxspeed.osm.lab.rfc822.org/?zoom=16lat=53.87349lon=10.66799layers=B0Tinput=maxspeed ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] maxspeed=DE:Urban
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: Moin ! bei uns hat in Lübeck einer mit der Verwendung von maxspeed=DE:urban [1] angefangen. So ganz fürndig bin ich im Wiki noch nicht gefunden. Hast du schon http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:maxspeed gesehen? ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
