date:19990108






Tripp: Maybe I Saw Missing Records

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Linda Tripp was the last person to see Vincent Foster
alive. She taped her young friend Monica Lewinsky, which led to the
investigation of a presidential affair.

Now, for the first time, Mrs. Tripp says she may have seen billing records
from Hillary Rodham Clinton's law firm in a safe in Vince Foster's office. The
White House had said the records were lost for a few years, but they
mysteriously turned up later in the White House residence.

``I saw what I now believe to be in the infamous billing records in that
safe,'' Tripp said in a deposition this week for the conservative legal group
Judicial Watch. The group made her testimony public on Thursday.

Mrs. Tripp, a Maryland resident and Pentagon employee, also said she may have
seen Mrs. Clinton's initials on the records.

Mrs. Tripp was secretary to Foster, the deputy White House counsel who
committed suicide in 1993. She told Judicial Watch that sometime in May 1993
she might have seen the billing records, but didn't realize what they were
until January 1996, when it was revealed in congressional hearings that the
records had mysteriously appeared on a table in the White House residence.

Whitewater prosecutors had subpoenaed the records two years before. The White
House said they could not be located.

``I wouldn't know a billing record if it hit me on the head,'' Tripp told
Judicial Watch, which has sued the Clinton administration on behalf of people
whose FBI files were gathered by the White House. The administration has said
the files were gathered by mistake.

But Mrs. Tripp said that after she saw a photo of the records on the news in
1996, she realized that what she saw in 1993 may have been the billing
records.

``I don't recall having any clue what they were at the time, except that there
was something during the time that I saw it that made me believe it belonged
to Mrs. Clinton,'' Mrs. Tripp testified.

``I don't know if it was her initials or some notation, I don't know,'' she
said.

The records detail Mrs. Clinton's legal work in the mid-1980s for an Arkansas
savings and loan owned by the first family's Whitewater business partner.

Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr has been investigating the Clinton's
Whitewater business deals since 1993.

Re: [CTRL] [Fwd: Rejected posting to CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM]

1999-01-08 Thread Hawk


 -Caveat Lector-

  YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

 
   Glad to hear it. Who did you have to step on to do so well for yourself?
  
   Or sleep with?  ;-)
  
  That one's cute, too.. I married a poor girl... She's rich now, though.
 
  Avoids answering the question of who you stepped on or slept with to become so
  successful in business to become rich white trash...

 My, my... You are so bereft of manners... I will answer your stupid question
 directly... I "stepped on" no one, and I have not "slept with" anyone other than
 my wife... It is amazing to me that people such as you cannot comprehend success
 without chicanery... I suppose that it reflects your normal behavior.

   One good thing about being poor...you don't lose sleep at night
  worrying someone will take your 'stuff'...  ;-)
  
  OH?  Poor people like to have their "stuff" stolen???
 
  No, we don't have 'stuff' to BE stolen!  ;-)

 Bullshit.

  (or at least, not anything anyone else would waste their time on)...
 
   You also notice Squawk is so very willing to steal someone ELSE'S
   resources, while worrying about preserving his own toys...
  
  That is simply a lie... I have never stolen anyone ELSE'S resources...
 
  But you argue that it is your RIGHT to take as much oil from the ground to feed
  your gas-guzzler...

 No... As a matter of fact, I haven't taken ANY oil from the ground.. Some people
 who owned oil in the ground extracted it and sold it to some people who made
 gasoline with it, and they sold it to me... Simple things are very confusing to
 you, aren't they?  Your hypocrisy is amazing. as though you don't enjoy the
 benefits of plentiful and relatively inexpensive petroleum products...

  Just WHERE do you think that oil resides?  Unless you're Jethro with your own
  'bubbling crude', that oil you want to extract to your heart's content belongs
  to other people...

 I think it "resides" in the ground... As a matter of fact some of it belongs to
 me.  And I'd like to sell more of it...  In the meanwhile, I haven't taken any oil
 from anyone who didn't have desire to sell it... It is only people such as you who
 think they have the right to take by force what other people own.

  You argue that all the minerals in the Earth should be exploited for your
  own use -- do you live on top of a mine?

 Nope... wish I did, though.

  If not, then you are arguing for taking the resources which belong to others,
  and wasting them for your own frivolous needs...

 That's bullshit, too.  I don't "take resources" from anyone... That's what
 facsists and socialists (such as you) do.  I purchase what I use from willing
 sellers What I do with them after that is none of your business...
 Furthermore, you haven't a clue as to whether I use them for necessities or
 frivolous purposes.

   For someone so focused on what a people PRODUCE, I wonder just what
   SQUAWK produces...other than a lot of hot air...
  
  I make a better-than-average living providing information...
 
  Then you admit that you in fact do NOT 'produce' a thing...

 Mostly I help my clients keep a larger portion of what they produce.  Their
 greatest threat to success is folks like you who feel that they have a right to
 what my clients own.

  I am a consultant.
 
  A paid producer of hot air...

 Whatever The people who pay me do so willingly, so I suppose they think the
 "hot air" is worth something.

  Lots of people pay quite handsomly to hear what I think... You are a
  fortunate recipient of my wisdom at no charge... See how generous I am?
 
  As are you...I also am a consultant, billed out at $125+ an hour...
  but unlike you, I also produce something tangible in addition to my hot
  air, as my 'information' is followed up with a service...

 Good for you... I charge a bit more than you do... I wonder if your psychic
 abilities (or lack thereof) came through training or were they inherited?  What
 makes you think I don't provide on-going services?

 June... You make yourself look foolish with these kinds of accusations and bitter
 denunciations... It boils down to this:  You think that the only way people obtain
 wealth is by chicanery or extortion... I presume that is your normal way of doing
 business, or you would not think that way.  I risk making the same mistake that
 you have made by surmising that your pay comes primarily from some government
 source rather than honest market-place give and take.

 You, and those who think (I use the word loosely) like you do seem to feel that
 its OK for you and your pals to take whatever I own (my "stuff") and use it for
 your own purposes.  I wonder then, if you think it would be "just peachy" if me
 and some of my pals showed up at your place, and by threat of violence took
 whatever we wanted that you have.  If you are truely "democratic" all that would
 be necessary is that we "outnumber" you.

 Hawk

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[CTRL] Fwd: White Power, WWII






Hero Had White-Rule Plan for Africa

LONDON (AP) -- Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery, who led British troops to
victory in North Africa in World War II, once argued for a white-dominated
Africa as a defense against communism, a British newspaper reported Thursday.

Confidential papers, which were released by the Public Record Office after the
passage of 50 years, outlined Montgomery's 1948 proposal.

The Guardian newspaper said the suggestion so alarmed then Prime Minister
Clement Attlee that Montgomery's speeches were watched to be sure he did not
voice the opinions in public.

Montgomery's ``grand design'' -- in a private memorandum to Attlee -- was
based on a two-month tour of 11 African countries in late 1947, the newspaper
said.

It quoted him as saying Africans were not capable of developing their
countries themselves and that ``there is an increasing social and political
consciousness developing in the African peoples; this is a very great
potential danger and must be watched. ... Already Communist agents are active
in all parts of Africa.''

The government replied to Montgomery, telling him that Britain's official
post-war policy sought to build self-government in Africa and that a system
``maintaining white supremacy,'' like that of South Africa, was not
acceptable.

Montgomery became a hero when he led the British 8th Army to victory over
German-led troops at El Alamein in 1942. He led Allied ground forces in the
Normandy invasion in 1944, and commanded occupation forces at the end of the
war. He died in 1976.

The Guardian quoted World War II veteran Lord Chalfont as saying, ``He was
always thought of as (racially) tolerant. I would never have suspected him of
racism.''

``A lot of people will find it extremely surprising,'' Chalfont said. ``I find
it very disappointing and depressing.''

Montgomery's biographer, Nigel Hamilton, said the field marshal's strategic
skills would be the nation's abiding memory of the man, but Hamilton said he
was not surprised to hear about the contents of the memorandum, the newspaper
said.

Re: [CTRL] Hawk


 -Caveat Lector-

Just what is your point, sir?

That you've got lots of stuff--more than all the rest of us put
together--and you resent the government for taxing you?

I am trying to understand your contempt for everyone on this
list---and why you are here.

sno0wl

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==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Echoes from the Past


 -Caveat Lector-

On 27 Dec 98 , Alamaine wrote:

 This was a time when Bill Clinton, moving through his 20s at Georgetown,
 Oxford and Yale, rejected military service and experimented with
 marijuana. But in general, according to a biographer, the Washington Post
 reporter David Maraniss, Mr. Clinton followed ''a moderate course during
 an increasingly immoderate period.'' The stamp of that period remained on
 Mr. Clinton, in at least two areas: the evasiveness that characterized his
 dealings with the ''threat'' of military service and the permissiveness he
 allowed in his sexual life.

 In judging Mr. Clinton's morals to be typical of his generation - only 7
 percent thought them better; 27 percent, worse - most of those surveyed
 made it clear they disapproved.

I think it is really, really interesting that the morality of the
nation is being discussed in terms of Bill Clinton's personal, sexual
behavior.

Why isn't the morality of the nation being considered in terms of all
it's most successful citizens...dissecting their sex lives, their
divorces, their ethical behavior in both private and corporate
practice (in terms of  contributing to the general welfare of the
nation's citizens), their drug use, their military service, their
crimes, the "moral" and "mental health of their families and
children

Given all the facts we might come up with some interesting polls and
statistics...and an explanation for the cynicism of many of our young
people, which is largely based on their observation that greed,
ruthlessness, the "right connections,"  and an ability to be totally
unscrupulous are positive "values" for those who would achieve the
outer limits of The American Dream.

Crime has always been an element of success in America. But the
system can be merciless to those who get "caught." By the time
they're teenagers, kids know that.






sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)


 -Caveat Lector-

My vote is for surrealism.which is the system we seem to be
living under. And may explain my general state of contentment, in
spite of what many might consider flaws and lacks in my current
lifestyle.

My giraffe is having a ball.


sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness


 -Caveat Lector-

On  6 Jan 99 , YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 On Wed, 6 Jan 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Well, when Ronnie the Communicator closed the institutions that held a good
 share of the people now homeless,

 If you are referring to actual shelters for the homeless, I will agree
 with your statement...

 But we can't forget it was 'Liberals' who decided that previously
 institutionalized people suffering from mental illness should be
 'mainstreamed' into society, with the result that these people were
 released from the institutions with nowhere to go, and no support
 network

Which was preceded by exposes such as  the film "Willowbrook " which
revealed horrendous and shocking abuses at said institutions. What
happened in between the closing of those institutions and the opening
of shelters and the creation of networks? Ah yes-- a Bush
administration. And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
excess dreaming of riches and power.




sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Radio campaign

1999-01-08 Thread Howard R. Davis III


 -Caveat Lector-

[IMPEACH]:  NEW ANTI-CLINTON RADIO CAMPAIGN:
SINGER-SONGWRITER BEHIND "DEAR MR. PRESIDENT
by Gabrielle Stevenson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
(www.worldnetdaily.com)1/6/99

 You may soon hear the following ad on your local radio station:
"Dear Mr. President," says the voice of a little boy. " My mom's mad at
me.
I was playing ball in the house when a vase got busted. My mom asked me
if I broke the vase and I said 'No' because I didn't. I wasn't anywhere
near
it
when it broke. Sure, I threw the ball that knocked over the vase, but it
was
the floor that actually broke it. So technically, I was telling the
truth. So,
Mom grounded me, not for breaking the vase, but for lying about it. Now
I

can't play Little League anymore and I'm the team's best pitcher. Could
you please call my mom, Mr. President, 'cause you can explain lying
better than anybody. Thanks, Joey. P.S. When I grow up I want to be
president just like you."
 The national ad campaign is the brainstorm of singer-songwriter
Steve
Vaus -- and that spot is one of a series of four or five that will begin
airing
as soon as this weekend in the Washington, D.C. market.
 "I've taken on some wild and woolly efforts and sometimes they take
off and this one has done just that," Vaus said. "We seem to have hit a
hot button here."
 It's called the "Dear Mr. President" campaign. The plan is to air
radio
advertisements in children's voices that address the moral shortcomings
of President Clinton. Vaus has asked for monetary donations for as
little

as a dollar to help finance the cost of running the ads -- and through.
 Says Vaus, "I need to reach the people with this concept of putting
(Clinton's) behavior in everyday family terms. This isn't the Republican
Party out there on an ad campaign or the Christian Coalition. This is
one

guy with a lot of friends saying, 'Listen folks, we need to pay
attention
to
all of this or we're going downhill, fast.'"
 Vaus said he has a simple desire.  "We need to reach the people who
continue to think that Bill Clinton is doing a great job and still think
he
ought
to be left in office. Once we do that by effectively communicating, we
are
going to see a shift in public opinion."
 One reason why Vaus decided to get involved with the issues
surrounding
the president is because he was disappointed with the polls and the
apathy
of the public.
 "Like so many people, I've been so frustrated that there's this
disconnect
with the American people," he said. "There have been so many people who
have been so eloquent and articulate for so long about these issues yet
there's this public disconnect. They just don't seem to care."
 The first radio ads will be recorded today. "We are going to start
on
non-conservative radio. Then we are going to air the ads in New York,
then
assess the money from there," said Vaus. "The money is going to be spent
on reaching out to different stations beyond the conservative stations.
Whether it be pop music (stations), whether it be urban or whether it be
country. Whatever the top-rated station is in the market wherever we can
buy time (is where the ads will air). We need to reduce these issues to
simple terms and taken them outside the realm of politics. We need to
show that this kind of behavior effects us down the road. What happens
in

the beltway doesn't happen in a vacuum.
 "This is truly, in every sense of the word, a grass-roots campaign.
These ads are designed to reach out like somebody trying to sell
widgets,

except we are selling a better America."
 Vaus is gaining recognition from his efforts on a daily basis.
Several
conservative radio shows have offered to air the commercials free of
charge
and have asked Vaus to speak on the air as well.
 "I happened to be blessed with some great inspiration for the
campaign.
I'm not talented enough to be brilliant."Vaus said he got the idea
of

running such ads with family-value ideas, "from the book of Dick Morris,
for lack of a better term. At every turn in the road the Democrats
out-spun
the Republicans, they out-maneuver them. Often times they fall back on
the
family, they always use children. The reason they do that is that people
connect with family."
 "We have an opportunity to reach out like we've never reached out
before
and connect with people we've never connected with before and
communicate

the most urgent message in contemporary life," Vaus said. "All of this
in
Washington does matter, and here is how it is going to matter in your
everyday life."
 Using the family theme, Vaus says, will only help in spreading the
message.  "If we don't put it in 'dinner table terms,' for the people, I
don't
think they are going to get it," said Vaus. "I want people to listen to
these
radio spots and think, 'I never thought of it that way before.' That is
what I
am trying to accomplish."
 Anyone can read about the campaign as well as make donations to the
fund through Vaus's web site.

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread Howard R. Davis III


 -Caveat Lector-

William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers and as
 politicians to serve and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
 They were bound by that oath not to work against the best interests of the
 nation.

***
Yes, and they understood that the Constitution allowed states to seceed
from the union. They had also taken an oath to their state govenments
which governments preceeded the forming of the union. Lee, for instance,
would have been working against the best interests of his country
(Virginia) if he had taken command of the federal forces as had been
offered.

***


By taking up arms against their country, they were committing an
 act of treason..  Sorry if that offends some of you but that is a fact.



Why should it offend me? I had no ancestor in the war except perhaps in
the federal army. I have lived in the south for many years, but people
still say I don't have an accent. I don't even like football. I just
have studied the history and have tried to understand the situation at
the time on the basis of law. I don't believe that you have. You are
just argueing from an emotional basis and not on any basis of law. My
understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
ignored their oathes to the Constitution. That is my opinion from
studying the facts. If you have a rational arguement to disprove my
opinion, I am open to being corrected, but what you have provided so far
has not dealt with the issue in anything but a purely emotional manner.

best wishes, Howard Davis

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Rejected posting to CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

1999-01-08 Thread Hawk


 -Caveat Lector-


 nurev wrote:

   This may have come as a shock to you, but there were many people around who knew 
what the imperialist  government was doing. And why. It seems that you  haven't yet 
learned why the
 government does what it does and why it must do it all secretly. I'll give you a  
hint, it's not because they are democratically
  controlled by us.

 Thank God for that.

  How many innocent people did you kill even knowing the false pretenses you were  
fighting under?

 That would be hard to say...

  Why should you not be considered a war criminal? This is not a rhetorical question.

 You are free to consider me whatever suits your fancy...

  Why am I not surprised that you justify slavery on the basis of this superstitious
  nonsense? Your slaver ancestors used it for the same purpose.

 I am not surprised that you feel that way... While my "slaver ancestors" did indeed 
believe they were justified, they are all dead.  Now they have been "replaced" by 
people who STILL advocate
 slavery... namely folks such as you... You seem to think it is perfectly fine for me 
to be forced to work for the benefit of others.  I doubt you are smart enough to see 
the connection however.

  Gee that's too bad. War is heck. I'll bet the slaves just hated to leave your
  wonderful family.

 As a matter of fact, most of them didn't leave... They chose to stay with my 
wonderful family...

   But slavery was an evil institution.
  
  I don't know dude...you sound like one confused puppy to me.

 Rational thought is something you are not familiar with...

  There's no end to the evils perpetrated by people like you in the name of 
religion.  It's in the  NT that Paul tells slaves to obey their masters. The OT is 
much more  libertarian. Biblical
 Israel was not a slave based economy as was Greece and Rome and their cultural  
offshoots Christian Europe and Christian America.
  snip

 You obviously haven't had much exposure to biblical teaching... Since you don't know 
what you're talking about, there isn't much point in discussing it with you.

   Slavery was not eliminated by the war... it merely changed its appearance.
 
  Do you mean to wage slavery?

 No, I mean being forced to give govm't fools over half of what I earn.

  Whether you wish to or not is irrelevant. You can't because we ( the society in
  which you live ) won't let you own slaves. You'll just have to live with it and
  whine about it. Poor guy.

 I don't recall whining about it... As a matter of fact, if you could read and 
understand simple English, you would have noted that I said that I do not wish to own 
a slave.

  Well Hawk, you've convinced me. When I grow up I want to be just like you.

 It would be a considerable improvement...

 Hawk

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The Bible Code

1999-01-08 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

Charles, i understand the list is full of pointless BS at the minute, but regarding 
the 'turds' you mention. I was actually in the middle of a discussion with soemone 
about The Bible Codes so please stop jumping to conclusions.

Thank you.

EASTERISLE wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

The shit is clearly connected and thus amounts to a great deal.

If you guys want to talk about whether or not your turds are connected, please
do it on your own time. Let's try to steer things back on track a bit here.
Discussion of serious issues is always needed, but the signal:noise ratio on
this list has been getting a bit out of hand lately.

re: the Bible Code, there's a ParaScope article that may be of interest; the
URL is http://www.parascope.com/articles/0697/bibcode.htm. The article is a
bit dated, but it gives a broad overview of the "Bible Code" controversy and
raises various points of contention regarding the "accuracy" of Drosnin's
purported discovery.

Peace out,
Charles

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Revised Film List


 -Caveat Lector-

Just a few more points

Brainstorm - Natalie Wood actually died whilst making this film

Conspiracy Theory - Patrick StewarT

Goddfellas - Ray LIOTTA's girlfriends NOT played by actors???  what
about Debbie Mazar?

It is Denzel Washington

Pelican Brief - don't forget this was directed by Allen J. Pakula, who
was killed in mysterious circumstances recently.

Metropolis - who is FRANZ? - it was directed by Fritz Lang.

Sid and Nancy - "Involved with unusual Satani cult elements in London" -
would that be Punk Rock?

Altered States - 1980- Stars William hurt in Ken Russells superior film
regarding Sensory Depravation Tanks


M.A.R.K.
 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 07 January 1999 14:28
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fwd:  Revised Film List

  -Caveat Lector-

 Just a few points.

 * Edward Scissorhands is directed by Tim Burton not David Lynch.

 * One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest was released in 1975 not the 60's.

 * Rocky Horror Picture Show - er, who's Tim Briggs. Tim Curry is in it
 though.

 * JFK - I love the way you put 'Oliver Stone directs'. Says it all
 really.

 * Sybil - Stars Sally Field

 * Conspiracy Theory - this was released in 1997.

 * How about Enemy Of The State?

 There is loads more stuff. Some of the storylines are very misleading
 etc. but i cannot be bothered to do anymore.


 RoadsEnd wrote:
 
 
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 Listers:  Recent films mentioned on list lead me to send this article
 on
 to you.  This is a bit revised and includes a few more films -- below
 is
 a list of   films on conspiracy, mind control, and ritual abuse
 topics
 to rent.  My best, Judith
 _
 
 SELECTED AND ANNOTATED FILM LIST
 CONSPIRACY AND MIND CONTROL FILMS
 
 
 By Judith ABR
 c [EMAIL PROTECTED], 1998
 
 
  I now have a growing list of 68 conspiracy and mind control films,
 from
 the early part of film history to the present, which people have
 recommend to me and which I have viewed.  All these selections, with
 the
 exception of some historical foreign films, are available for rent at
 your local video store.  Email me with any further suggestions.
 
  There are three distinct themes categorically represented on this
 list:
 1) ritual abuse cult films, 2) government - secret political
 conspiracies, 3) believable alien-hyrid abduction movies.   Inclusion
 on
 the list was based upon the following factors:  1) revelance to
 conspiracy themes with plenty of information for researchers and
 depth
 of storyline (preferably dramas) and  2) exceptionally well done
 screen
 plays, cinematography, acting.  Comments are welcome.  Judith
 
 
 CATEGORICAL AND ALPHABETICAL ORDER (at some point this list will be
 in
 numerical order according to year of film production):
 
 I.  POLITICAL/ECONOMIC CONSPIRACIES:
 
 1. The Agency  ("about the use of sublimineals in television
 advertisting to influence public behavior and political clout, Robert
 Mitchum stars").
 
 2.  All the President's Men (Watergate film, "terror in our nation's
 capitol during that long night when an aspiring fascist regine held
 our
 democracy under siege."  Frank Rich, NY Post.
 
 3.  Amerika  (about an endangered Constitution and supports militia
 concerns about the loss of freedom to covert agencies).
 
 4.  Blowup (David Hemmings -- UK star and film, that agent-looking
 blonde guy, one of the first efforts about the use of high tech
 surveillance devices used by govt in England, 1960s work utilizes
 siren
 signals, people hiding and being stalked, obviously planned car
 accidents, etc. c. 1968).
 
 5.  Brainstorm (C. Walken stars, this was Natalie Wood's last film
 before she died).
 
 6.  Chinatown (J. Nicholson, F. Dunaway - cult classic, 1968).
 
 7.  Closetland (Amnesty International film).
 
 8.  Conspiracy Theory (Mel Gibson, Julia

Re: [CTRL] Hawk

 -Caveat Lector-

I agree with SnoOwl, you do seem to have a problem.

 -Original Message-
 From: Source - Richard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: 08 January 1999 08:41
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Hawk

  -Caveat Lector-

 Yay Go boy.

 Sno0wl wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

 Just what is your point, sir?

 That you've got lots of stuff--more than all the rest of us put
 together--and you resent the government for taxing you?

 I am trying to understand your contempt for everyone on this
 list---and why you are here.

 sno0wl

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 CTRL
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 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
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 CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
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 ==
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not

Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)

1999-01-08 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

fish.

Sno0wl wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

My vote is for surrealism.which is the system we seem to be
living under. And may explain my general state of contentment, in
spite of what many might consider flaws and lacks in my current
lifestyle.

My giraffe is having a ball.


sno0wl

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==
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Combatting mind Control


 -Caveat Lector-

For anyone worried about Cult Mind Control, may I suggest the following

Combatting Cult Mind Control (Park St. Press, 1990)  Today, millions of
people are being impacted by the influence of destructive cults. People
in all walks of life, from the very young to the elderly are being
deceptively recruited by a variety of destructive organizations--not
just religious, but political, psychological, and commercial in their
orientation. If you think it can never happen to you or anyone in your
family, this book may change your mind.  In this eye-opening account,
Steven Hassan aboutsteve.htm, a former cult member and leading expert
on destructive cults, shows how unsuspecting individuals are targeted
for recruitment, isolated from family and friends, and psychologically
manipulated. He identifies those groups which use behavior modification
techniques to gain money, influence, and power, and shows how you can
protect yourself and your family from their insidious influence.
"Beyond its value as an illuminating personal account, this book is an
informative and practical guide to cult-related issues...recommended to
lay persons who wish to become better informed on this topic and to
professionals whose responsibilities bring them into contact with cults,
their members, and families whose lives are affected."  American Journal
of Psychiatry ajp.htm 147:7 July 1990  "Well worth reading by
professionals in mental health, particularly those involved with
students, because early recognition and appropriate intervention depend
on greater awareness of this menace. Mind control is an emotive couplet,
but it is not only a delusion in schizophrenia--it is a subtle fact in
many people's lives."  The Lancet  lancet.htm--British Journal of
Medicine  "A major contribution...for the first time, a skilled and
ethical exit counselor has spelled out the details of the complicate yet
understandable process of helping free a human being form the bondage of
mental manipulation... Steve Hassan has written a 'how to do something
about it' book."  Margaret Singer, Ph.D. Department of Psychology
University of California, Berkeley  There are many more endorsements
from the religious community rccmc.htm and other professional
communities. ccmc.htm  Main Page main.htm | Back to Top book.htm |
Order Autographed Copy order.htm | Order Online
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0892813113/freedomofmind

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Paranoia Magazine / Mind Control Article

1999-01-08 Thread AlHidell


 -Caveat Lector-

First, an apology to our readers due to the long delay between Issue 18 and
Issue 19, the current issue. Like several other small zines, we were really
hurt financially by last year's bankruptcy of Fine Print Distributors. But we
are back in business now, and hope to continue to receive your support.
The Robert Naeslund Mind Control article appears in the current issue of our
ink and paper zine, PARANOIA: The Conspiracy Reader, which is available from
most bookstores. While I would hope you would check out the magazine, I
believe that if you do a web search on "Naeslund", you would find
substantially the same information.
Also, on a related note, THE CONSPIRACY READER: The Best of Paranoia Magazine,
has been published by Citadel Press and is availalble through your local
bookstore, or online at amazon.com!
Al Hidell, co-Editor
PARANOIA
PO Box 1041
Providence, RI 02901
1 yr (4 issues) $20

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Echoes from the Past

1999-01-08 Thread YnrChyldzWyld


 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Sno0wl wrote:
I think it is really, really interesting that the morality of the
nation is being discussed in terms of Bill Clinton's personal, sexual
behavior.

Why isn't the morality of the nation being considered in terms of all
it's most successful citizens...

Because no matter how successful it's most successful citizens are, they
are not the LEADER of that nation...

And would would hope that the person elected to that office reflected the
highest of moral and ethical behavior

The fact that we don't, and even more tellingly, that as a nation we seem
blase' to this sort of behavior, is damning to the nation as a whole...


dissecting their sex lives, their
divorces, their ethical behavior in both private and corporate
practice

I don't particularly care about their sex lives and divorces, unless it
enters into the realm of general ethics...and yes, ethics, both private
and corporate, ARE important...


Given all the facts we might come up with some interesting polls and
statistics...and an explanation for the cynicism of many of our young
people, which is largely based on their observation that greed,
ruthlessness, the "right connections,"  and an ability to be totally
unscrupulous are positive "values" for those who would achieve the
outer limits of The American Dream.

Perhaps due to the unethical shenanigans of our leaders being given just
a wink and a nod, a little elbowing to the ribs with a low chuckle...hey,
if THEY can get away with it, why not the rank-and-file citizen?

I was just telling someone an incident that very much describes what you
mention about young people's attitudes -- the past couple of years, I've
gotten into kite flying...I'm still in the 'minor leagues', but where I
fly on weekends, there are a couple of guys with really huge kites the
size of small buses (the kites are based on parachute designs)...when we
all have our kites staked out, especially when the huge ones are flying,
it's quite a show, free entertainment for the people at the park, who for
the most part express amazement and awe...

But I'm always surprised at the ones whose first question asked is "How
much do those things cost?"  (it's a variation on the theme that if you
have to ask, you can't afford them...but in this case if they're asking,
they may indeed be able to afford them, but would never buy one...)

And the saddest case was one day when a group of young black men stopped
by, totally amazed at what they saw...and then asked "Can you make any
serious money flying those things?"...

At first I laughed, telling them that I'd like to figure out how, so that
I could quit my day job and fly all the time...but when it dawned on them
that none of us were making money with these things, that in fact it COST
us money, I could tell that they were totally lost...they just couldn't
grasp the concept of doing something for the JOY of doing it, without any
monetary reward to it...


Crime has always been an element of success in America. But the
system can be merciless to those who get "caught."

Unless you're white, in the upper stratas economically, are
well-connected politically, and steal megabucks...then you just get a
slap on the wrist and go to a 'Club Med' prison for a couple of years...



June

 ===
  The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
  Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
-- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
 ===
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
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frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
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gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness

1999-01-08 Thread YnrChyldzWyld


 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Sno0wl wrote:
 But we can't forget it was 'Liberals' who decided that previously
 institutionalized people suffering from mental illness should be
 'mainstreamed' into society, with the result that these people were
 released from the institutions with nowhere to go, and no support
 network

Which was preceded by exposes such as  the film "Willowbrook " which
revealed horrendous and shocking abuses at said institutions. What
happened in between the closing of those institutions and the opening
of shelters and the creation of networks? Ah yes-- a Bush
administration.

No, it all happened well before 1988...the institutionalized mentally ill
were mainstreamed well before "Willowbrook", due to the flower-child
mentality of the 60s that people should be 'free'...a process that was
hastened by the introduction of what were considered 'magic bullet'
wonder drugs to treat the mentally ill...it was naively thought that
these previously institutionalized people would just automatically keep
up with their meds when not under constant supervision...

I agree that many of these institutions were houses of horror...but some
were not, we had a couple here in Connecticut that were like country
clubs, which attracted many of the rich and famous along with those whome
the state sent...

By the late 70s, most of these facilities were empty, operating as day
houses if they stayed open at all...

The problem that none of these PhD's foresaw was the fact that most of
these previously institutionalized patients had little, if any, job
skills...many did not have families to turn to...definitely no monetary
resources...so what were they to do?  Where were they to go?

A few lucky ones who were 'together' enough to figure out a game plan
made it to programs that provided them a temporary shelter as it taught
them job skills and helped them find jobs...but for the vast majority,
they ended up on the street, unable or unwilling to take their meds
(presuming what they'd been prescribed worked in the long run,
anyways)

Unfortunately, just when these people needed publicly funded programs for
shelter and job training the most, the Reagan Administration gutted the
programs...

So it's a case of 'a pox on both your houses' -- the mentally ill were
deinstitutionalized under a relatively liberal attitude (laudable, if
naive), that they'd be better off outside an institution, an attitude
that resulted from rose-colored blinders, of not evaluating what the LONG
term results to the patients would be, and to plan accordingly...and then
those who were deinstitutionalized fell victim to the conservative
gutting of social welfare programs...


And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
excess dreaming of riches and power.

Yes, but that happened circa 1980, not 1988...


June

 ===
  The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
  Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
-- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
 ===
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Re: [CTRL] Settlers

1999-01-08 Thread YnrChyldzWyld


 -Caveat Lector-

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
England was divided into four sorts of people: gentlemen, citizens,
yeomen, and laborers.  At the top of the social pile were the gentlemen
(monarch, dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts and barons--who either
inherited their exalted titles as the eldest male heirs of their families,
or were granted them by the monarch).  Below the gentlemen were the
knights.  In England, the mark of a gentleman was "idleness."

And these 'gentlemen' comprised a goodly number of the first immigrants
to the New World, especially to the southern colonies...usually minor
aristocracy, especially those who were not the first-born, and hence were
not in line to inherit the family estate...they thought they could make a
quick fortune in the Americas, and return to England after a few years
and live a life of rich idleness...

One of the problems with these colonists is that they were too used to a
life of 'idleness', and considered farming as 'beneath their station'...


Below these aristocrats were the citizens or burgesses.

Which for the most part were the class the Pilgrims came from...again,
little experience actually living off the land, and with the same
attitude that doing so was for those of the 'lower classes'...

While forced to farm to survive in their first years in the New World,
these colonies quickly established their own 'class' system, where those
who were merchants and 'professionals' -- doctors, lawyers, etc. -- were
considered 'better' than lowly farmers...


Below them was the great mass
of ordinary people who in the words of Sir Thomas Smith"[have] no voice
nor authority in our commonwealth and no account is made of them but only
to be ruled" (qtd. in Greenblatt 7).

And few of these great masses had actual experience in living off the
land, either...the majority being laborers, servants, etc.


But Shakespeare's MACBETH (1606), Middleton's WITCH (1616) and Dekker's
WITCH OF EDMONTON (1621) are testaments to the widespread fear of
witchcraft in early modern England.

And some of you wonder why your ancestors wanted to leave the Old World?

Well, in the case of the Pilgrims, they thought that the Old World was
TOO LIBERAL, and wanted to establish their own fanatical vision of "God's
Word On Earth" in the 'untainted' New World...except those pesky pagan
Indians got in the way...

In the southern colonies, as I mentioned before, the INITIAL colonies
were not of people of the lower classes who were starving, but fairly
well-to-do people of the lower aristocracy and merchant classes, whose
plans were, for the most part, NOT to live out their lives in the
colonies, but to make a quick fortune and return to Mother England to
live a life of ease...


June

 ===
  The melancholy days are come, the saddest of the year,
  Of wailing winds and naked woods, and meadows brown and sear.
-- Wm. Cullen Bryant:  The Death of the Flowers
 ===
*---*
revcoal AT connix DOT com
*---*
 It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
 address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
 $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
 email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
 terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
 unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
 email.
**

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Carpozi Book (Apparently) Re-issued

1999-01-08 Thread Brian Redman


 -Caveat Lector-

Book, "Clinton Confidential," is way ahead of its time.
Told all you never wanted to know about Bill Clinton
when published about 5 years ago. I luckily got a copy
of the book at the time, before it effectively disappeared.
Newsmax press release (below) indicates the book has
apparently been re-issued.

Brian Redman   | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html
Editor-in-Chief| ---Phone: 217-356-4418
Conspiracy Nation  |   "The perfect slave thinks he's free."

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 15:54:20 -0600
From: newsmax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Breaking News from Newsmax.com

This is a post-only mailing.  Please DO NOT respond to this message.
***

http://www.newsmax.com


Book Details Williams Case and Much More!

Now available from www.newsmax.com/store.html

Clinton Confidential -- Updated Edition
by George Carpozi, Jr.

George Carpozi, a veteran of 50 years in journalism and the winner of more than
30 awards for investigative reporting, has written the definitive
biography of Bill Clinton.

The best selling author hit a brick wall when his Clinton Confidential first
went to press. Book reviewers would not touch it. Bookstores banned it. He was
told his career as an author was finished.

Carpozi's sensational allegations about Clinton, from wild cocaine parties to
the Danny Williams story, were just too much for the liberal
establishment to take -- no matter how respected Carpozi was as a journalist,
and no matter how many books he had sold in his storied career.

Now you can read the full, untold story about Bill Clinton. Includes the latest
details about Lewinsky, filegate, Foster and Brown deaths and more.

To order click here: www.newsmax.com/store.html
***
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Squawk re-writes American history!!

1999-01-08 Thread PRUDYL


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/6/99 5:06:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Personally, I think oil is more useful in my automobile than it is 6,000
feet
 beneath the surface of the earth... So I'm all for plundering oil and
anything
 else that can make my life better. 

I suggest you have it made.  You were born into the right time and are doing
very well.  I hope you manage to hang onto all your stuff.  Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] test


 -Caveat Lector-

test

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] External Forces


 -Caveat Lector-

Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
is working only sporadically.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??

MARK

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Two Republicans To Be Larry Flynted

1999-01-08 Thread Brian Redman


 -Caveat Lector-

From USA Today

   01/08/99- Updated 01:45 AM ET
   The Nation's Homepage

  Flynt hustles from porn to politics

   LOS ANGELES - He made his reputation in the world of hard-core sex
   publishing and had long wanted to be a player in the world of
   politics.

   Now Larry Flynt has achieved his goal - to the dismay of politicians
   and analysts.

   One academic calls his tactics "sexual bounty hunting." But Flynt says
   he only wants to unmask the hypocrisy of the investigation into
   President Clinton.

   As the Senate planned to put Clinton on trial, the Hustler magazine
   publisher was scheming to embarrass a "big fish" Republican, just as
   he did with Rep. Bob Livingston.

   "This guy is really a gem," Flynt told The Associated Press on
   Tuesday. "We've got enough to go on now, but we are waiting for an
   affidavit from his ex-wife."

   Flynt said he will make the disclosure next week at a news conference.
   He described his next victim only as a GOP House member who has been a
   strong critic of Clinton in the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

   In October, Flynt ran a full-page advertisement in The Washington Post
   offering as much as $1 million to anyone who "had an adulterous sexual
   encounter with a current member of the U.S. Congress or a high-ranking
   government official" and could produce documentation of it.

   Livingston, a Louisiana Republican who was about to take over as House
   Speaker, turned down the gavel and said he would resign from Congress
   after confirming Flynt's discovery that he had had adulterous affairs.

   Flynt also said he will name a third politician later next week, and
   that he is paying up to $4 million to a number of women who responded
   to his ad. He plans to publish details in a one-time magazine called
   The Flynt Report.

   "He (Flynt) always wanted to be a political player," said Paul
   Krassner, who served briefly as Hustler publisher in 1978 and runs the
   alternative paper The Realist in Los Angeles.

   "He wanted to play a part in politics and in the culture of the
   country," Krassner said, "and he got what he wanted."

   Political analysts are recoiling at the influence now being wielded by
   Flynt, self-described "pornographer, pundit and social outcast."

   "It's almost as if we as a society have fallen through the looking
   glass," said Sherry Bebitch Jeffe, a political scientist at Claremont
   Graduate University. "I have never seen anything quite like it."

   Jeffe said that by driving the public discourse to new lows, Flynt
   will deepen cynicism about the impeachment process and government in
   general.

   "This is dangerous to democracy," Jeffe said. "It's dangerous to the
   First Amendment and it only adds to the cynicism we see out there.
   This is sexual bounty hunting."

   Fearful politicians are already talking about being "Larry Flynted."
   The president himself has decried "the politics of personal
   destruction" and Livingston warned of "government-by-Larry Flynt."

   "Certainly, scandal-mongering goes back to the beginning of the
   republic," said Gary Jacobson, a political science professor at the
   University of California, San Diego. "But now it is on this huge
   financial scale. It's a sign of the times."

   Flynt's previous forays into mainstream celebrity have included
   offering a $1 million reward for new information in the assassinations
   of John F. Kennedy, Robert Kennedy and the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
   In the 1984 trial of automaker John DeLorean, he released a government
   videotape of DeLorean with a suitcase full of cocaine.

   Flynt, 56, made his name with a hard-core sex magazine that once
   pictured a woman being put through a meat grinder. He once went to the
   Supreme Court over a magazine spoof ad suggesting the Rev. Jerry
   Falwell lost his virginity to his mother in an outhouse.

   Flynt won the fight in the Supreme Court. He later gained legitimacy
   in some eyes when the 1996 movie The People vs. Larry Flynt portrayed
   him as a First Amendment hero.

   He has been in a wheelchair since a man, incensed by an interracial
   photo spread in Hustler, shot him in 1978. That same white gunman also
   admitted shooting and wounding Vernon Jordan, the Washington lawyer
   and Clinton confidant who is a key figure in the Lewinsky
   investigation.

   By The Associated Press
 _

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Re: [CTRL] External Forces

1999-01-08 Thread Source - Richard


 -Caveat Lector-

I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I have had MAJOR technical errors 
when passing and recieving information, particularly regarding Mind Control or 
Government conspiracies. I also accessed a CIA affiliated site and was infected with a 
serious virus.

Can anyone deny or confirm if this is intentional and how it happens

MARK wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
is working only sporadically.

Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??

MARK

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] GCSC2: UC Berkeley, Global Crisis Solutions Conference #2, March 1, 1999, final plan






Please review and forward to your interested contacts asap.  Below is also
posted at http://www.angelfire.com/on/GEAR2000

This is the final plan for the second Global Crisis Solutions Conference,
scheduled for 10AM to 4PM on Monday, March 1, 1999, at the Alumni House at UC
Berkeley.  This will be a conference to foster solutions and alternatives to
war; that is, the Peace, full awareness and prosperity available from bridging
the understandings of new science and traditional spiritual insights applied
to solving today's social and environmental crises.

This is the final opportunity for you and your friends to help make sure that
this conference happens on the above schedule without delay.   I have received
a lot of encouragement and offers of outreach support over the last three
weeks on this, but now need firm commitments to make sure that it happens as
scheduled.   If advance ticket sales are not adequate by January 21st, all
will be refunded and the conference postponed or cancelled.  This is necessary
to confirm expenses can be covered on time.

The speakers whose availability and intent to participate have been confirmed
include Chris Conrad, Joseph Newman, Dr. Brian O'Leary, Michael Ruppert, Dr.
Fred Wood III,

and the Rev. Dr. Yusen Yamato.  Next I need commitments from those who will be
attending, setting up information tables, and/or offering their financial
support to this event as a benefit for the Global Peace Walk which will be
carrying the messages presented to the United Nations by September 16th and
walking from there to Washington, DC, for the October 24, 1999, "March for
Peaceful Energy" and "Rally to End Secrecy" events at the US Capitol.

I have received commitments from several organizations in the Bay area to help
with ticket distribution and from colleagues in Los Angeles to help with the
videotaping and internet telecast of this event.  I would like to have
produced this as a free program but the expenses, including renting the space
and hosting some of the speakers from out of town, requires a fund raising
formula as outlined below.

We expect to gain major media coverage leading up to and including this
conference in order to alert the general public to the critical problems and
available solutions associated with today's global social and environmental
emergency and to compel a public response to them in order to implement U.S.
National Policy changes which can ameliorate war, crime, nuclear and terrorism
threats, global warming, ozone layer depletion, the War on Drugs (including
the recently admitted US CIA involvement with the smuggling of hard drugs into
our cities to fund covert weapons sales for wars around the world, while the
bulk of our prison cells are being filled with non-violent hemp/marijuana and
drug offenders), etc. -- policy changes which need to be made in time to
prevent otherwise potentially imminent catastrophes.

Chris Conrad is an internationally recognized expert in the history and uses
of hemp/cannabis/marijuana, and in the adverse impacts of the US War on Drugs
on human rights.  He is the owner of Creative Xpressions, the Director of
Business
Alliance for Commerce in Hemp (BACH) and the Family Council on Drug Awareness,
the Art Director of the Human Rights and the Drug War project,  author of
"Hemp, Lifeline to the Future", "Hemp for Health", and co-author of
"Shattered Lives:  Portraits from America's Drug War" (with Mikki Norris and
Virginia Resner),  "Human Rights and the Drug War" (with Mikki Norris and
Virginia Resner).  Chris' website is http://www.chrisconrad.com   He is also a
member of the Hemp Industries Association.   Chris edited Jack Herer's earlier
edition of "The Emperor Wears No Clothes" in which he put forth the evidence
that hemp was fraudulently outlawed as marijuana.   Chris has been a key
figure in the movements to legalize industrial hemp and medical marijuana in
North America.

Joseph Newman is a self taught homemade genius who has developed a widely
recognized rigorous mechanical theory of electromagnetism which led him to the
discovery of an energy machine that liberates energy as electricity and
mechanical (motor) power.  He and his supporters see this as leading to the
replacement of nuclear and fossil fuel power entirely with their attendant
dangers, costs, and pollutions.   Although some prejudicially believe that his
energy machine can't work because it "violates the laws of physics", he and
numerous scientists who have tested it over more than 20 years feel that its
explanation is consistent with correct principles of physics.  He has been on
numerous television shows and written up in many print media as probably the
most famous American new-energy technology inventor, yet the U.S. Government
still refuses him a patent even thought eleven Congresspeople introduced
separate legislation to give him a pioneering patent to override the reluctant
patent office.  His most recent tests in Arizona have produced results

Re: [CTRL] External Forces


 -Caveat Lector-

Yes, I can confirm this. It is a result of Donnie Osmond's purple socks
being sucked into the NORAD computer and causing it to crash. My computer
has a virus too, so I have kept it home from school and presribed Children's
Tylenol for the fever. This is a grave concern for us as a nation. It is
even more frightening than the time I found out that I was made of tin foil
and reflected the sun wherever I went. Of course, I shouldn't be telling you
this as I have a radio in my head that is controlled by Eva Peron. If I am
discovered revealing sensitive information, she will make me listen to
selections from "The Sound of Music" performed by Tyne Daly through a
running vaccum cleaner. Naturally this is something to sneeze at, but not
too close as I don't want to make my computer even more ill than it is. Why
don't we all just tie ribbons in our entrails and try to use our pets as
kites. That way we can get them tangled in passing planes and get free trips
to anywhere in the world.

_
  -Caveat Lector-

 I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I have had MAJOR
 technical errors when passing and recieving information, particularly
 regarding Mind Control or Government conspiracies. I also accessed a CIA
 affiliated site and was infected with a serious virus.

 Can anyone deny or confirm if this is intentional and how it happens

 MARK wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
 Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
 is working only sporadically.
 
 Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
 Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??
 
 MARK
 
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.
 
 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
 
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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 Om
 
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 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and

[CTRL] Senate letter

1999-01-08 Thread Harry Hendrickson


 -Caveat Lector-

I sent this off to the 100 individual senators...I hope it gets posted
to the list.

U. S. Senate
  December 31, 1998
Washington, D.C.


To all Senators:

This letter brings with it, the hope of a peaceful, healthy and
prosperous New Year for you and yours, and that our Nation will continue to
have Gods grace shed upon it.
   As a new year brings changes in the U.S. Senate, perhaps this letter
will be passed on to others as well, who will now help carry the torch.
My intention is to share my thoughts and give support to you, in the
difficult decisions ahead, especially as a Presidential impeachment trial
begins.
   There are few sadder tasks possible for you and our entire Nation to
experience and endure than such a trial. What troubles me, are the polls
and various information coming from the major media regarding public
opinion of President Clinton. If we  believe the media-hype, then
President Clinton is almost owed an apology from the nation, but if we
believe the majority of computer polls across the country, his removal from
office will once again restore integrity to, and trust in our system of
government.
   It amazes me, how one man can place such a burden upon so great a nation
that has endured  the perils of world wars, economic breakdowns, and
natural catastrophes.
A popular phrase coined recently, Its the economy, stupid , has
people thinking of the prosperity. Certainly everyone enjoys the fullness
of life that a strong, healthy  economy can produce. But we must not allow
such prosperity and comfort to overshadow the decay in our nation. Tons of
cocaine and heroin continue to pour into our major cities. Increased
immorality, sexual crimes, promiscuity, and social unrest destroy the very
fabric of America. But the major-media puts up a smoke screen  telling us
violent crime is on the down slide. Our intelligence and awareness of
Americas serious problems has been insulted and underestimated by many
political and economic leaders. I find that appalling, and destructive to
the progress of the nation. We must change this attitude and more closely
work with our representatives, or we will be swallowed up by the
globalist agenda as the U.S. weakens. Our current Rhodes scholar,
President Clinton, is diligently removing our sovereignty as he supports
the United Nations global agenda. The world was never meant to be ruled
under one order or agenda, but rather to help one another, as all
nations grow in their own time and way.
Considering if only 10% were true of the many books written about
President Clintons abuse of power and lack of integrity, America has a
serious problem to contend with. How could over fifty people surrounding
President Clinton, have met with mysterious homicides, suicides or
imprisonment during the Presidents term of office without some serious
questions being asked ? The decisions you make during this historic trial
will affect the course of our nation and the relationship we have with our
neighbors of the world. May the wisdom and guidance of God be with you all.



Sincerely,



 Harry Hendrickson


 Maybe there are some that will think twice before cowering under the
threat of blackmail.  We all have to realize ourselves in the other persons
place. These senators have much to lay on the line after all is done. We of
course will be affected by their decisions too, but the ones who go against
the grain will stand to lose almost everything. There are such powerful
influences working here, that we really have no idea to what magnitude. So,
I say this, that if a senator stands up against the tide of this
impeachment trial, he has earned my respect. Sure, some may simply vote the
party, but this trial has much more at stake..harry

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Evil Agenda of the Secret Government: Exposing Project Paper Clip the Underground UFO Bases of Hitler's Elite Scientific Corps


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://search.borders.com/fcgi-
bin/db2www/search/search.d2w/Details?mediaType=BookprodID=45687047
A HREF="http://search.borders.com/fcgi-
bin/db2www/search/search.d2w/Details?mediaType=BookprodID=45687047"
Borders.com - Evil Agenda of the Secret Governm /A
-
Evil Agenda of the...
Our Price: $14.95
Availability: This title usually ships within 4-6 weeks but must be
ordered from the publisher (or label).

Community View
Evil Agenda of the Secret Government: Exposing Project Paper Clip  the
Underground UFO Bases of Hitler's Elite Scientific Corps
Hardcover, Inner Ligh, September 1998
ISBN: 1892062003
Author: Swartz, Tim


Subject / Style: Occultism  Parapsychology : UFOs

Copyright © 1998

Borders Online, Inc. is the authorized licensee of the Borders.com
trademark and domain name and the Borders NetCafe trademark. All rights
reserved. Copyright 1998 Muze Inc. All rights reserved.
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] U.S. Military Non-Lethal Weapons]


 -Caveat Lector-

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

  These files generally have been 'compressed' in some way and will need a
 'decompressor' on your end. Do you have a virus checker? Do you have a mac
or
 pc?

 Om
 K
 -
 In a message dated 1/7/99 12:14:37 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Why do I get a warning when trying to download files from
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Are these files safe to download??
 Please respond.  These files look interesting but I am hesitant to down
load
 because I don't know the sender and they may contain executable code.
 Thankyou.
   Bob

Also, what browser is he using? Internet Explorer (a/k/a Internet Exploiter)
4.x by default prompts you whether you want to open or save a file. Remember
that anything with a .txt extension is safe, because it's nothing but a text
file. If you're at all doubtful about a file, but want to download it anyway,
save it to a special folder or even a floppy disk, then run your antivirus
program on it before you do anything else. And for ghod's sake, keep your AV
program up-to-date!

Bob (another one)


=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed 
without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included 
information for research and educational purposes. For
more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

POSTING THIS MESSAGE TO THE INTERNET DOES NOT IMPLY PERMISSION TO SEND UNSOLICITED 
COMMERCIAL E-MAIL (SPAM) TO THIS OR ANY OTHER INTERNET ADDRESS. RECEIPT OF SPAM WILL 
RESULT IN IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION OF THE SENDER'S ISP.


More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Senate letter


 -Caveat Lector-

The great tragedy of all of this impeachment stuff is that President Clinton
might be forced out of office before May 21 and then he wouldn't get to see
a free screening of the "Star Wars" prequel. Then he'll have to wait on line
with everyone else while people make jokes about his crooked lightsaber.

 --
 From: Harry Hendrickson[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
 Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 11:16 AM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  [CTRL] Senate letter

  -Caveat Lector-

 I sent this off to the 100 individual senators...I hope it gets posted
 to the list.

 U. S. Senate
   December 31, 1998
 Washington, D.C.


 To all Senators:

 This letter brings with it, the hope of a peaceful, healthy and
 prosperous New Year for you and yours, and that our Nation will continue
 to
 have God's grace shed upon it.
As a new year brings changes in the U.S. Senate, perhaps this letter
 will be passed on to others as well, who will now help "carry the torch".
 My intention is to share my thoughts and give support to you, in the
 difficult decisions ahead, especially as a Presidential impeachment trial
 begins.
There are few sadder tasks possible for you and our entire Nation to
 experience and endure than such a trial. What troubles me, are the polls
 and various information coming from the major media regarding public
 opinion of President Clinton. If we  believe the "media-hype", then
 President Clinton is almost owed an apology from the nation, but if we
 believe the majority of computer polls across the country, his removal
 from
 office will once again restore integrity to, and trust in our system of
 government.
It amazes me, how one man can place such a burden upon so great a
 nation
 that has endured  the perils of world wars, economic breakdowns, and
 natural catastrophes.
 A popular phrase coined recently, "It's the economy, stupid ", has
 people thinking of the prosperity. Certainly everyone enjoys the fullness
 of life that a strong, healthy  economy can produce. But we must not allow
 such prosperity and comfort to overshadow the decay in our nation. Tons of
 cocaine and heroin continue to pour into our major cities. Increased
 immorality, sexual crimes, promiscuity, and social unrest destroy the very
 fabric of America. But the major-media puts up a "smoke screen " telling
 us
 violent crime is on the down slide. Our intelligence and awareness of
 America's serious problems has been insulted and underestimated by many
 political and economic leaders. I find that appalling, and destructive to
 the progress of the nation. We must change this attitude and more closely
 work with our representatives, or we will be "swallowed up" by the
 globalist agenda as the U.S. weakens. Our current "Rhodes scholar",
 President Clinton, is diligently removing our sovereignty as he supports
 the United Nations global agenda. The world was never meant to be ruled
 under one "order "or "agenda", but rather to help one another, as all
 nations grow in their own time and way.
 Considering if only 10% were true of the many books written about
 President Clinton's abuse of power and lack of integrity, America has a
 serious problem to contend with. How could over fifty people surrounding
 President Clinton, have met with mysterious homicides, suicides or
 imprisonment during the President's term of office without some serious
 questions being asked ? The decisions you make during this historic trial
 will affect the course of our nation and the relationship we have with our
 neighbors of the world. May the wisdom and guidance of God be with you
 all.



 Sincerely,



  Harry Hendrickson


  Maybe there are some that will think twice before cowering under the
 threat of blackmail.  We all have to realize ourselves in the other
 persons
 place. These senators have much to lay on the line after all is done. We
 of
 course will be affected by their decisions too, but the ones who go
 against
 the grain will stand to lose almost everything. There are such powerful
 influences working here, that we really have no idea to what magnitude.
 So,
 I say this, that if a senator stands up against the tide of this
 impeachment trial, he has earned my respect. Sure, some may simply vote
 the
 party, but this trial has much more at stake..harry

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to

[CTRL] Ready For Pope Potato Chips?


 -Caveat Lector-

"At a news conference, church spokesman Hector Fernandez assured the faithful
that `the Holy Father will not be linked to the advertising campaign nor will
he go out dressed as a potato.'"
==
Ready For Pope Potato Chips?

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Remember Pope-on-a-Rope-Soap? Well, get ready for
papal potato chips.

A Mexican potato chip company is helping local Roman Catholic Church officials
raise funds for Pope John Paul II's four-day visit this month by adding
photographs of the pope or the Virgin of Guadeloupe inside each bag of
Sabritas brand potato chips.

For two pesos, or about 20 cents, collectors can purchase a special album from
Sabritas to hold 10 different pictures. Proceeds from the album sales will go
to the Catholic Church in Mexico. If all nine million albums are sold, that
would mean 18 million pesos, or about $1.8 million, for the church.

The pope's visit is expected to cost about $1.2 million.

At a news conference, church spokesman Hector Fernandez assured the faithful
that ``the Holy Father will not be linked to the advertising campaign nor will
he go out dressed as a potato.''

In Spanish, the word for pope and potato is the same: papa. It was not clear
if a pun was intended.

Asked if it was a bit cheeky to drop a picture of the pope into a bag of
chips, Fernandez said no. ``It's not a promotional event,'' but instead
designed to spread the pope's message to every corner of Mexico, he said.

Sabritas officials said they did not expect to increase sales or make extra
profits off the campaign, even though Mexicans love to plaster images of the
Virgin and the pope on everything from taxis and buses to lunch boxes and
window displays.

=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed 
without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included 
information for research and educational purposes. For
more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

POSTING THIS MESSAGE TO THE INTERNET DOES NOT IMPLY PERMISSION TO SEND UNSOLICITED 
COMMERCIAL E-MAIL (SPAM) TO THIS OR ANY OTHER INTERNET ADDRESS. RECEIPT OF SPAM WILL 
RESULT IN IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION OF THE SENDER'S ISP.


More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at 
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] TOSH PLUMLEE


 -Caveat Lector-

from:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshmail1.htm
A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshmail1.htm"Untitled
Document/A
-

E-MAIL RECEIVED FROM CIA PILOT
TOSH PLUMLEE ON 11/15/98

Note: Mr. Plumlee knows the full context of his confession to us on
videotape and in his e-mail questions why we haven't posted all of his
confession. I explained to him the reasons and he is clear on it.

E-Mail from Tosh Plumlee

To Bob Vernon:

Just looked at http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com

So much you have missed.

Of course I see things a little different than you, but I am cursed with
another vision which is much larger than the Kennedy thing which
encompasses years of "Black Ops" in many different areas under extremely
tight security with deadly political overtures toward those which did
the missions.

How about the guy who took missile tech off the island (Cuba) - Who was
that pilot?

The Pawley Expedition? Just one of many political operations from J/M
WAVE and OMC operations.

Sorta like the Sullivan and O'Rouke thing in 1957 and the pilot
"Guthrie."

How about the Santa Clara raids with Frank Strugis?

You've missed so much of the thread that connects all this.

Tosh
=
from:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshmail2.htm
A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshmail2.htm"Untitled
Document/A
-
E-MAIL #2 RECEIVED FROM CIA PILOT
TOSH PLUMLEE ON 11/15/98

Note: My e-mail request to Tosh was for him to please elaborate one more
time on the flight from Florida to Dallas and the time he landed in
Dallas on the morning of 11/22/63. His responses are consistent with
everything he's ever told us.

E-Mail response from Tosh Plumlee

To Bob Vernon:

Rojas the pilot had flown for MATs a few years before he started flying
for Riddle Airlines and Regina Airlines two CIA front companies, (or
used as fronts) The twin beach came from LB Smith Aircraft Corp of
Miami The DC-3 came from Regina or Riddle... not sure. We did not
file any flight plans from West Palmonly an AIDZ ID check as
military when we crossed out of eastern Florida to New Orl. over water.
Not sure if the DC3 was picked up inTampa. The Twin Beech was a Miami
International based aircraft at L.B. Smith and maintained by Riddle
Airline mech. it was flown from Lantana to Tampa... then the Riddle DC-3
picked up, for more load and cross water.

On Tosh's arrival in Dallas during the early morning hours of 11/22/63:

I think it was around 6 am - 7am Weather was breaking toward Redbird
when we got to Garland and we could hop on over to Redbird later that
dayeveryone split up at Garland.By ten am I think I was at the
safe house in Oak Cliff not far from Redbird and the DC3 was at Redbird
by thenbeen a long time...

Tosh

=
from:
http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshconfess.htm
A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/toshconfess.htm"
CONFESSION OF CIA PILOT TOSH PLUMLEE/A
-
EXCERPTS FROM THE CONFESSION OF CIA PILOT ROBERT "TOSH" PLUMLEE

Former CIA pilot Robert "Tosh" Plumlee speaks out for the first time
about his participation in the JFK assassination. Mr. Plumlee's
testimony to the United States Senate Intelligence Committee has been
classified as "Top Secret."
WARNING

This confidential report and the information herein are the sole and
exclusive copyrighted property of Investigative Concepts Unlimited
("ICU"), 2609 Coffee Tree Court, Antioch, CA 94509, Phone: (925)
754-8833. This report, in full or in part, may not be reproduced,
copied, broadcast, distributed, or disseminated in any manner without
the expressed written consent of ICU. Anyone who violates this copyright
notice may be subject to civil and criminal penalties and jail. All
copyright infringements shall be reported to the FBI.

Q: Tosh, how do you make your living, what kind of occupation are you
in?

A: I'm a pilot, commercial pilot.

Q: When did you first become a pilot?

A: I started in 1956. I was an aircraft mechanic prior to going in and
getting my license.

Q: And, you've been flying for a living ever since?

A: Off and on and also doing other jobs in those lean, lean years so to
speak.

Q: In your times as a pilot, have you ever been associated with or
worked with the CIA?

A: Yes I have.

Q: What was the first time?

A: The first time was 1956 and the first time I became involved,
connected with the CIA, through out of military intelligence, was the
M-267 and that was a gun running supply operation to supply guns and
ammunition to the students at the University of Havana inside Cuba. This
was pro-Castro days. This was before Castro came into power. And, that
was the beginning.

Q: Have you worked with the CIA since that time?

A: Yes, I've worked with the CIA.

Q: On just another occasion or many occasions?

A: On many occasions.

Q: Over a period of how many years?

A: Off and on, over a period of 30 years.

Q: Have you ever met, in your

Re: [CTRL] [[CTRL] Fw: Re: Johnson Clinton impeachments]

 -Caveat Lector-

Linda Minor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

 -Original Message-
 From: H-Texas Editor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 5:24 PM
 Subject: Re: Johnson  Clinton impeachments

 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:31:45 CST6CDT
 From: "Gus L. Seligmann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of North Texas
 Subject: Re: Johnson  Clinton impeachments
 (Posted by Ray Stephens)

  Since opinions are worth what one pays for them I might as well
 throw mine into the pot.

 It is a Republican mantra that this isn't about sex it is
 about perjury.  In that they are both right and wrong.  It isn't
 totally about sex and it isn't totally about perjury although both
 are part of the pie.  What is also part of the pie and it is the
 Republicans dark secret is that it is also about reversing the
 outcome of the past two presidential elections.  The GOP has been
 desperately in search of something, anything for the past four years.
 Finally they succeeded at the cost of millions in both public and
 private funds.
snipped for space

Linda, this may be the *sanest* thing anyone has yet written about l'affaire
Clinton. Thank you for posting it.

Bob

=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

 -Caveat Lector-

Ladybird Johnson did it.

 --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
 Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 12:17 PM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

  -Caveat Lector-

 from:
 http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/
 A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/9747/"JFK MURDER SOLVED -
 The
 truth after 35 years/A
 -
 Many reports and web links. As always, . . .
 Om
 K
 -

  This web site
 placed here
 as a special courtesy
 for the United States
 Department of Justice.
 Click on the links
 below for review.
 THE
 LAST
 SHOT

 MEET THE MAN
 WHO KILLED JFK.
 HE IS STILL ALIVE!

 A man will try to sleep tonight in prison Somewhere in the midwest.
 Sleep won't come easy. Far too many memories of cold blooded murder
 and covert espionage nibble their way toward the inner shreds of his
 soul. or what's left of it... His cell is dark and damp An old
 guitar rests proudly in one corner. Hank and Willie songbooks lay in a
 state of disarray near the dingy sink next to the one towel he owns. A
 guitar pick made of empty matchbook covers and rubberbands is wedged
 between the rusty old strings and the instrument's battered neck
 Secrets rest here or merely dance in turmoil A life of murder and
 government orders intermeshed with organized crime and mom's apple pie.
 The air is still, the night is long a dreamer not, least he sleep.
 But sleep won't come the whole night through He'll tell too much
 if he talks The mob and the CIA have warned him already. His family
 has been threatened. There is no turning back now. It's too late. He
 has confessed In living color and in stereo digital sound on a piece
 of magnetic video tape Network quality Immortalized forever in
 American history. The warden created a special area for him.
 Only his friends are around him He shall not be killed by a young
 stranger with a mission They will have to work hard to silence him
 forever The warden knows he is telling the truth The warden's
 toughest job is to keep him alive for another 50 years. to serve his
 time... Inside his head are the secrets of history The early days of
 Vietnam and why we really fought there The Bay of Pigs The
 events that occurred in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963. The
 assassination of a U.S. President The death of foreign
 Presidents.. The murders of thousands of innocent people
 worldwide. Armed violence Aggravated assault
 Explosives... Covert "black" operations.. He is sudden death to
 the leaders of the invisible government. There is no trace of his birth
 record. The CIA erased that years ago

 NEW JFK REPORT FROM DENMARK!

 THE REMINGTON FIREBALL XP-100

 THE MOTEL AND THE PANCAKE HOUSE

 JAMES FILES BEHIND
 THE STOCKADE FENCE?

 DEALEY PLAZA MAP OF
 PARTICIPANTS 11/22/63

 JFK MURDER SOLVED PICTURE GALLERY

 THE 3 TRAMPS - WERE THEY CIA?
 THE MAN THAT EMBALMED JFK

  CONFESSION

 EVIDENCE

 INVESTIGATION

 SUMMARY

 MORE EVIDENCE

 WARNING! The contents of this web site are the copyrighted property of
 Truth, Truth, Truth, Inc. and Investigative Concepts Unlimited and are
 not to be reproduced, duplicated, copied or distributed in any form
 whatsoever without the expressed written consent of the copyright
 holders. Any violation of this warning shall be subject to criminal
 investigation by the FBI and violators may receive fines and time in
 jail or both.

 NEW REPORT ON JAMES FILES IN REAL PLAYER G2 FORMAT

 FBI DOCUMENTS ON JAMES EARL FILES

 PICTURES OF JAMES FILES AGES 10-12, 21, 34, 52

 RESULTS OF FIRST LIE DETECTOR TEST
 ON JAMES FILES

 JAMES EARL FILES FAMILY TREE

 CIA PILOTS ON THE SOUTH GRASSY KNOLL

 CONFESSION EXCERPTS OF CIA PILOT TOSH PLUMLEE

 MORE FROM CIA PILOT TOSH PLUMLEE

 11/15/98 E-MAIL FROM
 CIA PILOT TOSH PLUMLEE!

 E-MAIL #2 11/15/98 FROM CIA PILOT TOSH PLUMLEE

 THE DOCUMENT THE CIA DOESN'T
 WANT YOU TO SEE!

 CHRISTMAS CARD FROM JAMES FILES

 WHO IS THIS MAN
 SEEN IN DEALEY
 PLAZA ON 11/22/63?

 -
 Aloha, He'Ping,
 Om, Shalom, Salaam.
 Em Hotep, Peace Be,
 Omnia Bona Bonis,
 All My Relations.
 Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
 Amen.
 Roads End
 Kris

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be

[CTRL] Philosophers Discuss Latest News

1999-01-08 Thread Brian Redman


 -Caveat Lector-

PHILOSOPHERS DISCUSS LATEST NEWS


(CNNS, 01/08/99) -- In the jumble  of  news events, it is hard to
make sense of it all.  "What are 'they' up to?" asked  this  news
service  in  a  recent editorial.  CNNS put the question to three
unemployed philosophers, Glaucon,  Polemarchus, and Thrasymachus.
Here is the transcript of that discussion.

CNNS:  Says here, in National Enquirer, that Barbara Streisand is
terrified of a potential Y2K disaster and  has  turned  her  home
into  an  "armed  fortress," and is about to hire armed guards to
patrol  her  house.   ("Streisand's  Millennium  Meltdown,"  Nat.
Enquirer, 1/12/99.)

POLEMARCHUS:  It is true, as the poet says, that "People who need
people are the luckiest people  in  the world."  If she is hiring
guards, is that not, truly, that she is "needing people"?

GLAUCON:  I cannot agree, Friend Polemarchus.  For the guards are
there to keep people away.

THRASYMACHUS:  Hold!  For if Barbara is both "needing people" and
"not needing people" then here we have a fallacy.  Therefore  the
National Enquirer's story cannot be correct.

CNNS: Okay. Thanks for straightening that out.
   Here's  another  story  in  the news.  It says in New American
magazine that Linda  Tripp,  soon  before  testifying  to a grand
jury, received a document from  Monica  Lewinsky.   The  document
listed   "people   who   had  died  in  and  around  the  Clinton
administration."   ("War  Against   Impeachment,"  New  American,
1/18/99.)  That document,  in  other  words,  was  the  so-called
"Clinton Body Count." What do you learned ones think about that?

GLAUCON:  True friendship is a wonderful thing, for it withstands
time.   To distinguish the real from illusion, know that only the
real is unchanged by time.

THRASYMACHUS:  But is the  friendship between Monica Lewinsky and
Linda Tripp real?  For it has been changed by time.

POLEMARCHUS:  And so,  therefore,  the  friendship  between  them
never existed.  For if time  determines  what is real, and if the
friendship was destroyed by time, then  the  friendship  was  not
real in the first place.

GLAUCON:   Yes,  Friend  Polemarchus,  you  speak  true.  The one
confused the other  with  mathematics  when  she troubled Linda's
mind with a count of dead bodies, just when her mind was  weighty
with other matters.

CNNS: Your words are filled with wisdom.
   One  last question.  It says here that the CBS network program
"60 Minutes" aired a  false  documentary  about drug smuggling in
Colombia.  It says that the whole story was "fabricated" yet  had
won  "numerous  journalism  awards."   ("60 Minutes Documentary A
Sham," New American, 1/18/99.)

THRASYMACHUS:  This program, "60 Minutes":  Does it in fact allot
60 minutes to its reports?

CNNS: No, they really only give about 45 minutes.

GLAUCON:  Then that means that the very title of the program is a
lie?

CNNS: Yes, that seems true.

POLEMARCHUS:  Then, Friend  CNNS,  since  the  very  title of the
program, "60 Minutes," is  a  lie,  it  must  follow  that  their
reports are also lies. Is this not so?

CNNS: You speak truly.

 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +

INFORMATION PLEASE:  Conspiracy Nation  News  Service (CNNS) is a
co-operative effort.  Without the hints/rumors provided  by  many
excellent  sources,  we could not exist.  Have YOU heard anything
lately  that  might  be  important?   Pass  it  along  to  us  at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Anonymity is guaranteed.  If you  prefer, send your news tip or
clues  on  same  to:   Brian  Redman,  310  S.  Prairie   (#202),
Champaign,  IL  61820.   Or you can go to a pay phone and call in
your news tip: 217-356-4418.
  THEY will never tell us the whole truth about what is going on.
But we, the People, working together, can find out what is REALLY
happening.


Brian Redman   | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html
Editor-in-Chief| ---Phone: 217-356-4418
Conspiracy Nation  |   "The perfect slave thinks he's free."

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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To subscribe to

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness

1999-01-08 Thread PRUDYL


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 12:22:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 . And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
 syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
 excess dreaming of riches and power. 

Yes, it's still going on.  There's a big fight going on re a half-way house in
our area right now.  Prudy

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Recent UFO Book

1999-01-08 Thread Gavin Phillips


 -Caveat Lector-

Worth taking a look. Gavin.

Above Black : Project Preserve Destiny Insider Account
of Alien Contact  Government Cover-Up
by Dan Sherman


Try express shopping with
1-ClickSM and Gift Click
Our Price: $18.00
Availability: Usually
ships within 24 hours.
Paperback (October 1997)
Oneteam Pub; ISBN: 0966097807
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 101,710
Avg. Customer Review:
Number of Reviews: 1

Write an online review and share your thoughts with other readers!
Customers who bought this book also bought:

The Catchers of Heaven : A Trilogy; Michael Wolf

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Glimpses of Other Realities : High Strangeness; Linda Moulton
Howe
Click here for more suggestions...

Customer Comments
Average Customer Review:  Number of Reviews: 1
[EMAIL PROTECTED] from Nothern Virginia , August 2, 1998

Most Credible Accounting of the Gov't UFO Conspiracy Yet!!!
Dan Sherman's 'Above Black: Project Preserve Destiny' is one of the
most compelling UFO books I have read. Told in a straight, matter of
fact tone, Sherman recounts his recruitment and training by the Air Force
to communicate 'intuitively' with an alien species. According to Sherman
his story begins in the early 60's with the abduction of his mother and his
own subsequent genetic manipulation to foster is unique communication
abilities. Subsequent to his entry into the Air Force, Sherman eventually is
recruited into AF Intelligence. While stationed at the National Security
Agency to attend an electronic warfare course, Sherman is also trained
secretly to invoke his 'Intuitive Communicator' (IC) abilities and
understand the associated protocols. Following his training, the book on
one level recounts his AF postings, his communications with aliens and
the knowledge they impair. On another, the book documents his
increasing ill ease and frustration of being part a sinister! Government
program that lies to its people about an impending Armageddon and it's
complicity in the abduction of citizens it's worn to protect. As a UFO
investigator of sorts, I have checked many of Sherman's claims and have
verified the veracity of each one. My only critique is that Dan writing will
not be confused with a great stylist.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Radio campaign


 -Caveat Lector-

Of course, he includes "No new taxes" and "I wasn't in the loop" and a few
others, no?  I wonder if someone sent him an I.O.U. (negative
contribution), would he honour that as well?  (All remittances being sent
to a *worthwhile* cause, of course.)

Am I seeing too much or is there some concerted effort on the part of the
anti-Billios to 'use' children to advance their agendae?  Recall that
during the J Committee hearing, some of the Republicrat Reps used lettres
from their (non-voting, under 18) constituents to illustrate the effect the
Republicrats, Starr, the media, and others are having on (young) American
life -- via Billio.  This, in turn, is being exploited for deliterious
effect on (presumably adult) politicians (e.g., Billio, Livingston, et al).
 What is most bind-moggling is the youngsters are presumed to have the
ability to discern and evaluate and analyse and decide on issues for which
their years haven't even provided a point of reference.  To avoid the fact
that Billio is *only* the most publicised "misleader" (yeah, yeah) creates
an even greater skew.

And aren't these 'family values' types supposedly against child
misuse/abuse and exposing the young to corrupt influences?  So, now, what
do they do?  They make a federal(!) case/issue out of it THEN pollute the
airwaves with this ... this ... this ... ditty to ENSURE any remnant of
decency and civility is removed from the kids' lives.  The innocent
question begged, "What did the President lie about?"

Ah, the Conspiracy of Incredibility:  EVERYONE gets a chance at misleading,
deception, and losing credibility -- everything's beyond belief, leading to
the Cult of Incredulity.

AER

The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
--
: From: Howard R. Davis III [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: Subject: [CTRL] Radio campaign
: Date: Thursday, January 07, 1999 11:51 PM
:
:  -Caveat Lector-
:
: [IMPEACH]:  NEW ANTI-CLINTON RADIO CAMPAIGN:
: SINGER-SONGWRITER BEHIND "DEAR MR. PRESIDENT
: by Gabrielle Stevenson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
: (www.worldnetdaily.com)1/6/99
:
:  You may soon hear the following ad on your local radio station:
: "Dear Mr. President," says the voice of a little boy. " My mom's mad at
: me.

:  It's called the "Dear Mr. President" campaign. The plan is to air
: radio
: advertisements in children's voices that address the moral shortcomings
: of President Clinton. Vaus has asked for monetary donations for as
: little
:
: as a dollar to help finance the cost of running the ads -- and through.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Two Cows (humor)]


 -Caveat Lector-

Sno0wl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

 My vote is for surrealism.which is the system we seem to be
 living under. And may explain my general state of contentment, in
 spite of what many might consider flaws and lacks in my current
 lifestyle.

 My giraffe is having a ball.

Well, you may be living in the state of Contentment, but I seem to be in the
statement of Confusion, which is next to Indignation and around the corner
from Anxiety...

Bob


=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed 
without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included 
information for research and educational purposes. For
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POSTING THIS MESSAGE TO THE INTERNET DOES NOT IMPLY PERMISSION TO SEND UNSOLICITED 
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Let's hear it for the SHE-DEVILS!!

1999-01-08 Thread William Hugh Tunstall


 -Caveat Lector-

Three cheers for the She-Devils!!
Thank you, SnoOwl, for the posting!

On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Sno0wl wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 On  4 Jan 99 , Jim wrote:

  Ask one of these mother's who have been left with the two,
  three, four, five, or six kids after the Dad goes elsewhere to play
  "house" --- about what kind of "liberation" the NOW she-devils have
  secured for HER. Jim Condit Jr.

 Well, now you're getting personal. But in fact, I did raise three
 kids as a single Mom--without child support or other help.
 Unfortunately, the committment to get those dads came just a little
 too late for me.  However, I made the choice for my freedom--whatever
 the price--above serious abuse. And I am a pretty committed feminist.
 I'm all for Gloria, and Betty, and Hillary, and the Ladies from
 Seneca Falls. We're at least 50% of the population, if not more. We
 want a voice. And we want to be treated right. My daughters, BTW,
 all agree. It's not done yet, but it's moving in the right
 directio. We owe those NOW ladies a debt of gratitude, if not for
 what they've done, at least for opening up the forum and getting our
 voices heard.  And I'm against impeachment, too!!!  :))




 sno0wl

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] External Forces

1999-01-08 Thread A.C. Szul


 -Caveat Lector-

This has happened to quite a number of folks, including myself. I'm told that
there are, in fact, self-executable files triggered by certain words either read,
typed or displayed on your screen. If that destructive .exe program is resident,
placed there w/out your knowledge, expect your PC to crash sporadially.

MARK wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
 Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
 is working only sporadically.

 Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
 Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??

 MARK


-snip
Regards,
-A
http://www.erols.com/mack97
"The sharpest tool in the shed." -- anonymous

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

[CTRL] UFO Book From 20 Year Researcher

1999-01-08 Thread Gavin Phillips


 -Caveat Lector-

I've read dozens of UFO (let me qualify the statement UFO; when I say UFO I'm
referring to alien piloted machines, not the hundreds of thousands of mis-
identifications/hoaxes/weather anomolies/government black projects etc) books
in the last 15 years or so and would recommend very few of them. Linda Moulton
Howe is one of the few researchers into this extremely perlpexing subject who
has gained some credibility with me regarding her 20 or so years investigating
cattle mutilations and other UFO/alien related material. I purchased her first
volume in this series, "Glimpses of Other Realities Vol 1" and have been
waiting for a very long time for the second, and seemingly more interesting,
second volume to come out. I've orderd it form Amazon.com and will review it
in the weeks ahead:check-out some other reviews below. Gavin.




Glimpses of Other Realities : High Strangeness
by Linda Moulton Howe


Try express shopping with
1-ClickSM and Gift Click
List Price: $27.95
Our Price: $22.36
You Save: $5.59 (20%)
Availability: Usually
ships within 24 hours.
Paperback - 480 pages 1 Ed edition Vol 2 (March 1998)
Paper Chase Pr; ISBN: 1879706784 ; Dimensions (in inches): 1.20 x 10.92 x 8.49
Amazon.com Sales Rank: 7,193
Avg. Customer Review:
Number of Reviews: 10

Write an online review and share your thoughts with other readers!
Customers who bought this book also bought:

Glimpses of Other Realities : Facts and Eyewitnesses; Linda
Moulton Howe

Alien Harvest : Further Evidence Linking Animal Mutilations and
Human Abductions to Alien Life Forms; Linda Moulton Howe,
Jacques Vallee (Designer)

Reviews
Amazon.com
Recovered crash debris, information from alleged military insiders, and
the transfer of human souls from body to body--this isn't the script for the
next SF blockbuster, but the voluminous exposition of evidence for a
mystery involving the entire human race. What Linda Howe calls a "hall of
mirrors with a quicksand floor" started as a simple argument about where
strange lights in the sky come from and has turned into a discussion of
entities with enigmatic motives possessing the ability to control the human
mind. Howe didn't write Glimpses of Other Realities for light
entertainment (this book is annotated and appended better than most
university textbooks), and anyone who doesn't take the idea of alien
encounters seriously will be challenged by the depth of the book's
coverage. However, readers passionate about UFO and alien contact
phenomena will be rewarded with a profusion of evidence favoring the
existence of an extraterrestrial race. Howe connects this evidence piece
by piece, like an immense jigsaw puzzle, but by the end of the book, the
pieces form only the picture of a keyhole through which to peer. With no
box lid to reveal what the whole picture looks like, Howe will hopefully
gather more pieces soon. --Brian Patterson

Book Description
: "Glimpses of Other Realities, Volume II: High Strangeness" is the
second book in a two volume non-fiction study of government, military
and civilian evidence that a non-human intelligence is interacting with
earth.
What started as environmental reporting on animal mutilations grew into a
mission to uncover the truth behind the US Government's suppression of
information on paranormal activity. This extensive in-depth report from
journalist Linda Moulton Howe is the result of years of research through
interviews and exploration into government cover-ups.
This book is a rational report about government accounts of unexplained
phenomenon. Howe's analysis is supported by her extensive research and
documents including top secret government reports and correspondence,
excerpts from military manuals, historical newspaper articles and
interviews with eye-witnesses, including military personnel.
About the Author
Linda Moulton Howe is a graduate of Stanford University with a Masters
Degree in Communication. She has devoted her documentary film,
television and radio career to productions concerning science, medicine
and the enviroment.
Ms. Howe has received many local, national and international awards for
her documentaries, including three regional Emmy's, a national Emmy
nomination, medical producer participant in Boston's WCVB Station
Excellence Peabody Award, Colorado's Florence Sabin Award for
"outstanding contribution to public health," Aviation  Space Writers
Association Award for Writing Excellence in television, and a Chicago
Film Festival Golden Plaque. Some of her honored films have included
Fire In The Water about hydrogen as an alternative energy source to
fossil fuels; A Radioactive Water about uranium contamination of public
drinking water in a Denver suburb; and A Strange Harvest about the
worldwide animal mutilation mystery. Which has haunted the United
States and other countries since the late 1960s - and continues to date.
In 1989, Ms. Howe was Director of International Programming for
Earthbeat, an environmental series broadcast on Ted

[CTRL] Fwd: FC: Information warfare's ethical implications, from AAAS/Rand








**

Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:36:14 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SSIANG)

Subject: Cyber War Article
To: Declan McCullagh [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Dear Declan,

 I am replacing Alex Fowler as Deputy Editor for the Professional
 Ethics Report, published by AAAS and thought your listserv readers
 might be interested in the cover article of the Fall 1998 issue, "The
 Legitimization of Strategic Information Warfare: Ethical
 Considerations" The article is co-authored by Roger Molander of RAND
 and me.

 The full report can be found at:

 http://www.aaas.org/spp/dspp/sfrl/per/per15.htm

 Thanks!

 Sanyin Siang



 The first few paragraphs are as follows:



 The development of the Internet and the Web has resulted in a global
 society dependent on information technology. As a consequence, there
 emerges profound problems of scientific ethics and international
 security that have been increasingly drawing the attention of
 international security experts, especially those concerned about the
 future of strategic warfare. Call it cyberwar or strategic information
 warfare (SIW).

 Many countries rely on information-based resources, including
 management systems and infrastructures involving the control of
 electric power, money flow, air traffic, and other
 information-dependent items. SIW occurs when one national seeks to
 obtain strategic leverage over another by severely disrupting or
 damage these systems by exploiting the tools of the Internet. Compared
 to other strategic forms of warfare such as nuclear war or the clash
 of massed armies, SIW possesses several distinct features. The entry
 cost is potentially much lower. There is difficulty in ascertaining
 perpetrator identity, thereby, enhancing opportunities for deceptive
 attackers. It also generates new tactical warning and attack
 assessment problems since there is currently no adequate means for
 distinguishing between SIW attacks and other kinds of cyberspace
 activities, including espionage or accidents. Furthermore, in the
 world of SIW, there is no frontline; the "battlegrounds" are
 everywhere, from the stock market to the natural gas pipelines. In
 short, the expanding global network and its rise as a new mode of
 communication, transcends physical space, thereby muddying the
 geographical boundaries and traditional distinctions between the
 public and the private, the criminal and the warlike, the civilian
 and the military. Lastly, SIW seems to possess the redeeming quality
 of being "much more humane" than other forms of strategic warfare
 since the only intended casualties would be the crippling of
 information flow, convenience, and comfort.

 An understanding and development of this technology can lead to great
 strides in attack capabilities. The question remains whether SIW
 should be legitimized as a new form of warfare. To explore this
 question, we will examine the ethical considerations in terms of
 offensive and defensive capabilities



--
POLITECH -- the moderated mailing list of politics and technology
To subscribe: send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with this text:
subscribe politech
More information is at http://www.well.com/~declan/politech/
--

[CTRL] Fwd: [MC] Louis Jolyon West: Maestro of Mind Control

-- Forwarded --

Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 11:58:21 -0600
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Louis Jolyon West: Maestro of Mind Control

--
NOTE:  Yesterday, we list-posted notice of the death of Louis Jolyon West.
It has since come to our attention that some of the listees are not aware
of West or the nature of his diabolical work.  For those who do not
understand the significance of West's activities and career, the following
information is offered -- an article written prior to his demise.  I might
also mention in passing that many of West's earliest mind control
experiments (those that dealt with the use of LSD on both animals and
unwitting human subjects) were conducted here at the University of Oklahoma
while he was on the faculty of the psychiatric department.

Michele
Co-Owner, Ignition-Point
--

The maestro of  "mind-control"  continues to  haunt America

Articles in this edition describe some of the life-destroying effects of
psychiatry's primary therapies - drugs and electric shock. The following
presents one of their chief advocates - Louis Jolyon West, director of the
UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute until his resignation following exposure of
possible violations of federal law regarding use of government funds.

--
In a lawsuit currently before the Los Angeles Superior Court, it has come
to light that the University of California at Los Angeles and UCLA Medical
Center have, since the early 1980s, attempted to remove psychiatrist Louis
Jolyon West from the roster of the university's faculty.

One psychiatric colleague who asked to go unnamed described West as
"supremely arrogant" and charged that he "misused his positions for his own
ends," at the expense of the university.

Many will not find such statements surprising, considering West himself,
whose history includes controversial LSD experiments for the Central
Intelligence Agency and even more controversial plans to construct secret
installations for the "study" and modification - by electric shock,
chemical castration and other means - of the behavior of citizens,
particularly minorities.

Indeed, any discussion of CIA "mind-control" endeavors, such as the
infamous MK-Ultra, would be incomplete without West, who has, according to
information provided to Freedom, enjoyed a long and lucrative career in
this field. Although he has sometimes posed as a civil libertarian, he has
not sought to expose dangers of intelligence agency "mind-control"
techniques, but rather to secretly perfect its use on others.

In a document released under the Freedom of Information Act, for example,
it was revealed that more than four decades ago, the CIA sought to set West
up in a clandestine laboratory to perform "mind-control" experiments with
hypnosis and LSD. A portion of the experiments with LSD and other drugs in
which West was enmeshed at the CIA's behest were exposed in the mid-1970s
by the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, chaired by Senator
Frank Church.

West contributed to the early work which resulted in, among other things,
the death of tennis pro Harold Blauer in an experiment with a mescaline
derivative in New York City in 1953. The Senate Select Committee's
investigation revealed drugging of unsuspecting targets, electric shocking
to obliterate memory and "programming" individuals to kill - acting under
psychiatric control.

West's career highlights included injecting a 7,000-pound bull elephant,
Tusko, with an overwhelming dose of LSD - roughly 1,435 times the quantity,
in West's own words, one would have given to a human "to produce for
several hours a marked mental disturbance." Not surprisingly, the elephant
collapsed in agony minutes later and died.

West had ingested the mind-altering substance himself shortly before
killing Tusko, the prize of the Oklahoma City Zoo, and was evidently still
under its influence at the time he sloshed through the beast's entrails,
performing an "autopsy" which he recorded on film. He later issued a report
to advance his "discovery" that elephants could be killed with LSD and to
promote use of the drug to cull elephant herds in Africa.

Prisons as Laboratories

"Jolly" West moved on, changing his base of operations from Oklahoma to Los
Angeles. In keeping with intelligence proposals to utilize prisons as
experimental laboratories, he drafted a plan to use electric shock and
drugs on state inmates in what was called "aversion therapy."

In the 1960s, West could also be found in the Haight-Ashbury section of San
Francisco, conducting more LSD experiments, this time within the hippie
community.

A pet project of West's in the late 1960s and early 1970s was the Center
for the Study and Reduction of Violence. He proposed to establish a
"securely fenced" center at a remote, abandoned Nike missile base in the
Santa Monica Mountains, in keeping with earlier plans by the CIA to set up
"mind-control" stations

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness


 -Caveat Lector-

Screw all the homeless!!! Personally, I would like to kick up dust in their
collective faces as my Range Rover speeds me off to a ski vacation in Aspen!
However, I would not want to sully the Gucci bags I have on the luggage rack
with their cooties. During this cold month of January, I like to think about
the homeless people of this country. I usually do it while sitting on the
deck of my house in St. Thomas. Then I collapse into fits of laughter.

What do you think they say as they're going to sleep?
"Hey Joe, isn't this bed GRATE?"

What does a homeless kid say to his parents when he turns 18?
"Mom, Dad. I have to move out. This place has me BOXED IN!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

   This is America,  land of opportunity!  If they don't know how to work
hard and get ahead, then I say they are criminals! They are violating the
basic principles of capitalism. I say if you do not have at least $250,000
in the bank by the time you are 27 then you are lazy, shiftless and should
be rounded up with the rest of the freeloaders and destroyed.

LONG LIVE THE TOP 10%!!
 --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
 Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 12:41 PM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness

  -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 1/8/99 12:22:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  . And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
  syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
  excess dreaming of riches and power. 

 Yes, it's still going on.  There's a big fight going on re a half-way
 house in
 our area right now.  Prudy

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread William Hugh Tunstall


 -Caveat Lector-

I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of states
leaving the Union...per se.

In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.

Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
free your slaves.  However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
owner ...and you were MY slave.  You might have a completely different
perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.

If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
chattel.  Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
wife.
Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
absolute lord and master over the Davis family.  Your wife, your children,
your lives would be held in my tender hands.  Now, being a thinking and
reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
would object to this state of affairs.  In fact, it might not be a legal
or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
the Constitution to your untutored ears.and explain the finer points
of the noble English Common Law tradition It would not surprise me
that you might be unimpressed with the wisdom of my philsophy.  Perhaps,
you might even be emotional about it.

Regards,
Wm

On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
 
   -Caveat Lector-
 
  Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers and as
  politicians to serve and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
  They were bound by that oath not to work against the best interests of the
  nation.

 ***
 Yes, and they understood that the Constitution allowed states to seceed
 from the union. They had also taken an oath to their state govenments
 which governments preceeded the forming of the union. Lee, for instance,
 would have been working against the best interests of his country
 (Virginia) if he had taken command of the federal forces as had been
 offered.

 ***


 By taking up arms against their country, they were committing an
  act of treason..  Sorry if that offends some of you but that is a fact.


 
 Why should it offend me? I had no ancestor in the war except perhaps in
 the federal army. I have lived in the south for many years, but people
 still say I don't have an accent. I don't even like football. I just
 have studied the history and have tried to understand the situation at
 the time on the basis of law. I don't believe that you have. You are
 just argueing from an emotional basis and not on any basis of law. My
 understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
 the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
 stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
 this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
 ignored their oathes to the Constitution. That is my opinion from
 studying the facts. If you have a rational arguement to disprove my
 opinion, I am open to being corrected, but what you have provided so far
 has not dealt with the issue in anything but a purely emotional manner.

 best wishes, Howard Davis

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a

[CTRL] Tripp's Trap (A New One)


 -Caveat Lector-

What I wanna know is:  Where's her co-conspirator Lucy Annie with that book
deal (that started the whole thing)?

I wonder if sent an I.O.U., would they remit the $$$ to be donated to a
worthy cause.

Her situation is like that of Billio: a victim of circumstances, created
outside of her/his own control.  And now the violins of sympathy are
supposed to soothe away the stresses of the ordeal (and a few $$$).  I
mean, does Evel Kneivel solicit funds because he's in fear for his
livelihood, safety, and good health?  (Turn of the motorcycle, Evel --
problem solved!)
~
From Wash Post

Tripp 'Urgently' Seeks Donations for Legal Defense Fund

By George Lardner Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, January 8, 1999; Page A08

Linda R. Tripp needs money, "urgently." Although she now earns $90,767 a
year in her Pentagon public affairs job, thanks to a recent "longevity"
raise, she says there's just not enough left over to make a dent in her
mounting legal bills.

So in a 12-page fund-raising letter now arriving in selected mailboxes
across the country, the Maryland woman whose secret tapes led to the
impeachment of President Clinton is asking for help in fighting off the
assaults of his "henchmen" and "disciples."

"Their approach has always been to attack, discredit and destroy their
opponents," Tripp says in the letter asking for contributions to Linda R.
Tripp Legal Defense Fund. "Now they have me in their cross hairs and I feel
like David up against Goliath."

Her legal bills are already more than $325,000 and "growing every day,"
Tripp says. She was compelled to give a deposition in an anti-Clinton civil
suit this week after her lawyers were rebuffed in an effort to block the
appearance. She is one of the witnesses who might be called to testify at
Clinton's impeachment trial in the Senate. She is under investigation by a
Maryland grand jury for taping her conversations with Monica S. Lewinsky
about sex in the White House.

And she says, "I'm living in fear for my job and for the safety of my
family and myself."

One of the trustees of the defense fund, Bill Parris, a retired insurance
executive who has never met Tripp and was enlisted by one of her lawyers,
said the letters starting going out Dec. 31 and he hopes they will raise
$60,000 to $80,000. About 20,000 are being sent out, by a direct-mail
operation in Virginia whose name he said he couldn't recall.

"I got a whole bunch of lawyers wanting money from me," Parris said this
week. He joked, "After I take my wife to Bermuda, I might even have some
left over for [them]."

The fund-raising letter, Tripp's first, gives a first-person account of
Tripp's predicament that associates said she reviewed and edited. It also
appears to contradict some things she has said in the past.

For instance, Tripp traces her troubles back to Nov. 29, 1993, when she
said another White House aide, Kathleen E. Willey, "her lipstick smeared
and her blouse untucked," came to see Tripp after an encounter in the Oval
Office.

"Ms. Willey then volunteered to me that President Clinton had just sexually
assaulted her while they were alone in his office," Tripp says in the
letter.

In testimony before a federal grand jury last June 30, however, Tripp said
the episode came after a series of flirtatious approaches on Willey's part
and that "it just seemed to be as consenting adults."

Willey, Tripp testified, "was very excited, very flustered" as she told
Tripp what happened and "she smiled from ear to ear the entire time. She
seemed almost shocked, but happy shocked."

Tripp says in her letter that she knew her life would be changed forever
when she decided last January to tell independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr
of Lewinsky's affair with Clinton, but was not prepared "for the vicious
personal onslaught" she has endured since then. She took particular issue
with what she denounced as "a slanderous magazine article" based on details
from her "illegally released" FBI background file "about a teenage prank
which long ago found me in the wrong place at the wrong time."

The article in the New Yorker by Jane Mayer reported that Tripp was
arrested when she was 19 in a New York resort town after police said stolen
goods were found in her possession; the charge was later reduced to
loitering. The New Yorker said Tripp answered no when asked in 1987 on a
Defense Department security form whether she had ever been "arrested . . .
. regardless of whether the citation was dropped or dismissed or you were
found not guilty."

Tripp says in her letter that she was "completely exonerated" after the
incident "and the Pentagon knew it and the author of the magazine article
knew it, but the story was published anyway."

Asked about Tripp's remarks, New Yorker editor David Remnick said: "The
story is far from slanderous. It is accurate. We stand by it."

Tripp, who works from her Columbia home, says she has been forced to do so
because the Pentagon "has forbidden me from

Re: [CTRL] Hawk


 -Caveat Lector-

Ditto, or, ruff-ruff.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness


 -Caveat Lector-

Kick up dust in my face with your status symbol and I'll have your ass.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .


 -Caveat Lector-

Sorry but this website is either misinformed or more disinformation.  In the
UNEDITED version of the Zapruder film it is CLEAR who fired the second shot,
the one that took his face off.  His name is William Harris and he was driving
the limo at the time.  He was a member of the Secret Service.  How does one
expose the highest police body in the nation.  This is why this murder is
still 'unsolved.'

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] On Criticizing Technology: David Noble

  -- Forwarded message --
  Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 16:58:39 -0500
  From: Robert Weissman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Multiple recipients of list CORP-FOCUS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: "Progress" Without People

  MIT Professor Noam Chomsky makes the point that if you serve power,
  power rewards you with respectability. If you work to undermine power,
  whether by political analysis or moral critique, you are "reviled,
  imprisoned, driven into the desert."

  "It's as close to a historical truism as you can find," Chomsky says.

  Let's test Chomsky's theory of power and respectability with the case of
  David Noble.

  Noble is a historian of corporate control over our lives and
  institutions -- from technology to universities.

  Forces of Production (Knopf, 1984), for example, is a detailed history
  of the automation of the metalworking industry. In that book, Noble
  shows how technology, in its design and deployment, reflects class and
  power relations between workers and owners.

  Noble started out his academic career in 1978 at MIT. His first book,
  America by Design (Knopf, 1977), focused on the rise of the
  science-based industries, the electrical and chemical industry, and how
  universities essentially became corporate research centers for these new
  industries.

  Noble believed that corporations should be kept off of university
  campuses. In the late 1970s, he wrote a series of articles for the
  Nation magazine, including two classics, "Ivory Tower Goes Plastic" and
  "Business Goes Back to College."

  Then in the early 1980s, Noble wrote a series of articles in praise of
  Luddism for the now defunct journal Democracy. (That series has since
  been pulled together in book form (Progress Without People, Between the
  Lines Press, Toronto, 1995).

  In addition, while at MIT, he teamed up with Ralph Nader and Al
  Meyerhoff and started an organization called the National Coalition for
  Universities in the Public Interest.

  MIT, a model of education in the corporate interest, was not pleased. In
  1983, MIT fired Noble.

  "It was a political firing," Noble told us. "I sued MIT in 1986." After
  five years of litigation, Noble forced MIT to make public the documents
  shedding light on the firing.

  "I got all of the documents and turned them over to the American
  Historical Association, which then reviewed them for a year and then
  condemned MIT for the firing," Noble said.

  Next stop: Smithsonian Institution. The Smithsonian wanted Noble to be a
  curator for an exhibit on automated technology. Noble went to Washington
  for two years and produced an exhibit highly critical of technology. He
  includes a hammer used by the Luddites in the 1800s to smash machines in
  England. George Lucas donates robots R2D2 and C3PO from the first Star
  Wars movie. Noble calls the exhibit "Automation Madness: Boys and Their
  Toys," in which he documents a history of resistance to automation
  beginning in the 1800s. Not what the Smithsonian had in mind. They too
  fired Noble.

  Most people think that the Smithsonian is a public institution. It
  started out that way, but has slowly been taken over by big corporate
  interests.

  When Noble arrived at the Smithsonian in 1983, he figured he would have
  a budget to work on projects. No such luck.

  "What I had to do was go out and hustle -- to the National Association
  of Manufacturers, to the Chamber of Commerce, to various companies, to
  get money to put on exhibits," Noble said. "At that time, the fundraiser
  for the National Museum of American History was the wife of the
  president of the National Association of Manufacturers."

  Noble then spent five years at Drexel -- protected with tenure -- and
  then headed North to the University of York at Toronto, where he is also
  protected by tenure.

  Noble doesn't use e-mail or the Internet, but last year after The Nation
  magazine turned down an article he wrote called "Digital Diploma Mills,"
  he published it and two subsequent pieces on the Internet
  communication.ucsd.edu/dl. The articles describe how corporations are
  using digital technologies to gain control over university course
  content.

  He believes that the Internet can be a useful way to disseminate
  information, but not to teach students.

  "You can't educate over the Internet, because education is an
  interpersonal process," he says.

  And he laughs when asked whether the Internet will level the playing
  field between activists and their corporate adversaries.

  "Have you noticed that -- any leveling the playing field?" he asked
  incredulously "Wake me when it is over. It is a joke."

  "The key thing about organizing is trust," he says. "You have to have
  relations with people, especially if you are asking people to put
  themselves on the line in any way. There is no real way of establishing
  that over the Internet."

  Whether Noble continues to get into trouble with the masters

[CTRL] Ramsey Clark letter to Security Council (fwd)



  Ramsey Clark letter to Security Council

  The following letter was sent from Ramsey Clark to the five new
  members of the United Nations Security Council--The Netherlands (the
  chair of the Sanctions Committee), Argentina, Canada, Malaysia, and
  Namibia.  Along with the five permanent members who have the
  veto--U.S., UK, China, France, and Russia--there are ten
  non-permanent members who sit on the council for two years.

  International Action Center
  1247 'E' Street SE,
  Washington, DC 20003
  Phone: 202-544-5752 Fax: 202-544-9359
  email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  39 West 14th St., #206   New York, NY  10011
  212-633-6646   fax:  212-633-2889
  http://www.iacenter.org   e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  January 5, 1999

  Dear Ambassador,

  You and your government take seats on the Security Council at a
  critical time.  The next two years will determine whether tens of
  thousands of people in Iraq live, or die, and millions sustain
  painful, crippling permanent injuries from further malnutrition and
  sickness which could have been avoided altogether, or quickly cured if
  medicines and clean water had not been denied by Security Council
  sanctions.  The independence and sovereignty of every nation and the
  integrity and viability of the United Nations depends on Security
  Council action now to end these sanctions, acknowledge their harm and
  prohibit future imposition of sanctions designed to kill, injure and
  degrade an entire population.  Your action in this moment of moral
  crisis will be judged in history. =20

  These facts are undeniable:

  1.  Since August 6, 1990, the forty-fifth anniversary of the
  incineration of Hiroshima by an atomic blast, Security Council
  sanctions have killed more than a million and a half people in Iraq,
  mostly infants, children, elderly and chronically ill and left
  millions more stunted, with crippled bodies, shortened lives, and
  minds scarred by the realization that rich nations forced this
  devastating impoverishment and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment
  on their entire people.

  2.  The Security Council sanctions against Iraq are a genocidal act.
  The sanctions were imposed with the "intent to destroy in whole or in
  part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group, as such."
  They have caused "serious bodily and mental harm" and inflicted
  "conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical
  destruction" of the people of Iraq.  (Article II, Convention on the
  Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, 78 U.N.T.S. 277.)

  3.  No fear or hatred of Saddam Hussein, and no threat to peace or
  life that the present government of Iraq might pose can justify the
  imposition or continuation of these sanctions.  No failure to comply
  with a Security Council resolution can justify the imposition of
  genocidal sanctions against the people within a nation or criminal
  military assaults against a defenseless population.  The Security
  Council must find morally acceptable means for the prevention of war
  and international violence.  It must meet the highest standards for
  international conduct, not the most deadly and violent.  Other nations
  have defied Security Council resolutions for decades, developing and
  stockpiling weapons of mass destruction including nuclear bombs all
  the while, without any Security Council penalty.

  4.  The Security Council has been coerced, deceived, misled and
  manipulated for eight years by the United States to cause it to
  maintain economic sanctions against Iraq as a justification for the
  United States military domination in the region through the presence
  of the largest naval armada since World War II in order to control the
  natural resources located there and the economies of the nations
  worldwide who are dependent on them.

  The poor and powerless of the world and the future viability of the
  United Nations depend on you to act now to end the sanctions against
  Iraq.  Dante found the hottest places in the Inferno were reserved for
  those who in time of moral crisis did nothing.  History will long
  celebrate courageous action by you to end these sanctions in this
  moment of maximum peril.

  I am enclosing a copy of Challenge To Genocide, the latest in a=20
  series of six books by the International Action Center documenting=20
  the criminal military assaults on Iraq by the United States with the
  approval or acquiescence of the U.N. and the genocidal eight years of
  sanctions.  Enclosed is an article by Stephen Kinzer in Sunday's New
  York Times attesting again to the fact that informed people everywhere
  know the U.N. sanctions are a crime against humanity.

  With deep love for your people, hope for their government and a
  passionate desire to see the United Nations fulfill its mandate, end
  the scourge of war, prohibit economic sanctions which impoverish a
  people and establish peace for all.

  Sincerely,
  Ramsey Clark

[CTRL] Coo-Cou-Coup


 -Caveat Lector-

From wsws.org

WSWS : News  Analysis : North America : Clinton Impeachment

Senate impeachment trial opens: political coup enters climactic stage

By the Editorial Board
8 January, 1999

The opening of the Senate impeachment trial will be remembered in history
as a critical milestone in the political degeneration and breakdown of the
institutions of American democracy. Despite overwhelming popular
opposition, a political coup d'etat--organized by a cabal of neo-fascist
conspirators and the far-right groups that control the Republican Party--is
on the verge of victory.

The profoundly reactionary implications of what is taking place in
Washington found expression in the ceremony with which the impeachment
spectacle began. Senator Strom Thurmond, who more than a half-century ago
ran for president as the candidate of the racist States' Rights Party,
swore in William Rehnquist, the extreme right-wing Supreme Court justice
who has played a critical role in facilitating the conspiracy to overturn
the Clinton administration.

The proceedings expose the extent to which the basic foundations of
bourgeois democracy have been eroded in the United States. A determined
group of conspirators has been able to leverage what was, at least on the
surface, a purely personal episode in Clinton's life into an unprecedented
political campaign to overturn the results of two elections. Such a
development is only possible in a country where the overwhelming majority
of the population--that is, the working people--is, for all intents and
purposes, excluded from the political process.

Despite the mid-term elections, which showed mass opposition to the
Republican impeachment drive, and the opinion polls which have since
registered even greater popular anger, neither the Democratic Party leaders
nor Clinton have appealed to the American people for support against the
political conspiracy. Instead, all of the efforts of the White House and
the Congressional Democrats have been concentrated on finding some
resolution to the crisis that would leave in the dark the machinations of
neo-fascist forces that underlie the impeachment campaign.

On this basis, every calculation made by the White House has proven to be
wrong. First Clinton decided to approach the Paula Jones provocation and
its offspring, the Lewinsky scandal, as purely legal matters. This enabled
his enemies to maneuver him into a series of legal traps. Then he adopted a
sickening posture of contrition, which only emboldened Independent Counsel
Kenneth Starr and the Congressional Republicans.

Now that impeachment has reached the stage of a Senate trial, the Democrats
are desperately seeking to head off the calling of witnesses. To millions
of people observing these events, this position must seem utterly baffling.
It is obvious that calling their own witnesses and cross-examining those
called by the House prosecutors would provide an ideal opportunity for the
Democrats to expose the conspiracy against the White House. There are a
host of individuals who could be grilled under oath to uncover the
connections between Starr and the Paula Jones lawyers, and the ties of both
to right-wing millionaires and racist elements in Arkansas and elsewhere.

This option, however, has been rejected out of hand. Instead the floor of
the Senate on Thursday was a florid display of bipartisan solemnity, as
though some noble democratic process was under way. Less than three weeks
ago, when the House voted articles of impeachment, a number of Democrats
took the floor to denounce the Republicans for carrying out a political
coup and issue warnings about the wrath of the people. Now all such talk
has been dropped, just as Hillary Clinton's one-time reference to a "vast
right-wing conspiracy" nearly a year ago was quickly forgotten.

This attempt to maintain the pretence that the impeachment trial is a
legitimate constitutional process constitutes a criminal fraud against the
American people. The Democrats know very well that the trial is the product
of a right-wing conspiracy involving fascistic elements, and that such
elements exercise enormous influence within the Republican Party.

Some of the plotters are well known: Linda Tripp, Lucianne Goldberg, Paula
Jones, Kenneth Starr. But behind them stand a network of organizations and
individuals that comprise the most degraded and reactionary political
elements in American society: racists, anti-Semites and the most hardened
enemies of the working class.

It is a fact of political life in the US that people like Pat Robertson of
the Christian Coalition, Gary Bauer of the Family Research Council and
James Dobson of Focus on the Family call the shots in the Republican Party.
It has recently emerged, though it has been largely buried by the mass
media, that Republican House Judiciary Committee member Bob Barr and Senate
Majority Leader Trent Lott spoke at meetings of the Council of Conservative
Citizens, a white supremacist

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread William Hugh Tunstall


 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
in my opinion, that his posts..

Best wishes,
William


On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, William Hugh Tunstall wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 I think you missed my earlier post.  I'm not against the idea of states
 leaving the Union...per se.

 In the case of the Civil War, as in most wars, the issues were confused
 and complex.  But I think on the issue of slavery there was no compromise.

 Mr. Davis, what appears to be "logical" or "illogical" depends upon your
 point of view, the criteria one uses to frame a particular discussion.
 For example, if you were a white male southerner at the time who owned
 slaves, you would be interested in protecting your "property," and you
 would not be too enthusiastic about the Federal government's plan to
 free your slaves.  However, for the sake of argument, I was the slave
 owner ...and you were MY slave.  You might have a completely different
 perspective on the issue of what exactly IS property and what ISN'T.

 If I decided to take your children from you and sell them to my neighbor,
 you wouldn't be able to complain, because the law had defined you to be
 chattel.  Or, perhaps,if I decided to enjoy the sexual favors of your
 wife.
 Again, you would have nothing to say in the matter because I would be the
 absolute lord and master over the Davis family.  Your wife, your children,
 your lives would be held in my tender hands.  Now, being a thinking and
 reasonable person, I just might make a reasonable assumption that YOU
 would object to this state of affairs.  In fact, it might not be a legal
 or logical issue to you...it might be an emotional and intensely personal
 issue to you, would you agree? Of course, I could trot out my Holy Book
 and explain to your sorry ass that you are chattel...and I could explain
 the Constitution to your untutored ears.and explain the finer points
 of the noble English Common Law tradition It would not surprise me
 that you might be unimpressed with the wisdom of my philsophy.  Perhaps,
 you might even be emotional about it.

 Regards,
 Wm

 On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Howard R. Davis III wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  William Hugh Tunstall wrote:
  
-Caveat Lector-
  
   Davis and the other southern commanders had taken oaths as soldiers and as
   politicians to serve and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
   They were bound by that oath not to work against the best interests of the
   nation.
 
  ***
  Yes, and they understood that the Constitution allowed states to seceed
  from the union. They had also taken an oath to their state govenments
  which governments preceeded the forming of the union. Lee, for instance,
  would have been working against the best interests of his country
  (Virginia) if he had taken command of the federal forces as had been
  offered.
 
  ***
 
 
  By taking up arms against their country, they were committing an
   act of treason..  Sorry if that offends some of you but that is a fact.
 
 
  
  Why should it offend me? I had no ancestor in the war except perhaps in
  the federal army. I have lived in the south for many years, but people
  still say I don't have an accent. I don't even like football. I just
  have studied the history and have tried to understand the situation at
  the time on the basis of law. I don't believe that you have. You are
  just argueing from an emotional basis and not on any basis of law. My
  understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
  the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
  stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
  this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
  ignored their oathes to the Constitution. That is my opinion from
  studying the facts. If you have a rational arguement to disprove my
  opinion, I am open to being corrected, but what you have provided so far
  has not dealt with the issue in anything but a purely emotional manner.
 
  best wishes, Howard Davis
 
  DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
  ==
  CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
  screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
  and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
  frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
  spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
  gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
  be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness


 -Caveat Lector-

Well Agent, I don't know what that says about you that you want my ass at
all! Is that a rough trade game you like to play? Why don't you just sit in
the gutter with the rest of the castoffs and stop making idle threats?

 --
 From: Agent Smiley[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
 Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 2:33 PM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness

  -Caveat Lector-

 Kick up dust in my face with your status symbol and I'll have your ass.

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
 propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
 outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
 effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
 readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om


DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread Barb Witt


 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:44 PM 1/8/99 -0600, you wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
in my opinion, that his posts..

Best wishes,
William


Hugh, although I often disagree with your views, I respect your
scholarship, civility, lack of insecurity, and tolerance.  Your ability to
engage in a lively exchange without resorting to the arrogant, ill-mannered
and unlearned tactics of the core group that is allowed to control this
list is refreshing.  You are a gentleman.

I agree that Hawk should be allowed to stay, as should anyone else who is
inclined.   It really shouldn't matter if some persons find any number of
posts offensive - isn't that "diversity"?   Theory is obviously more
palatable than the real deal for some persons.

Regards,

Barb

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] Ready For Pope Potato Chips?]

1999-01-08 Thread L-Soft list server at America Online (1.8d)


 -Caveat Lector-

"Brown, Jeremy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

 Personally, I want to see Pope toilet paper.

 The motto could be "The Church is Always on Your Ass!"

  --
  From: Robert Tatman[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List
  Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 12:15 PM
  To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject:  [CTRL] Ready For Pope Potato Chips?
snipped for space

I'm waiting for Popesicles and Diet Pope...

Bob


=
Robert F. Tatman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Rejected posting to CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM


 -Caveat Lector-

You  are   not  authorized   to  send   mail  to  the   CTRL  list   from  your
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-  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

The above has forgotten his password.He changed his old password skin88 to
new password jayskin. He states that he cannot login.His name is Mark
Powell and phone no.682-3269 ext 8626.Can you help him?
Thanks


- Send "subscribe   snetnews " to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-  Posted by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] Rejected posting to CTRL@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

1999-01-08 Thread L-Soft list server at America Online (1.8d)


 -Caveat Lector-

You  are   not  authorized   to  send   mail  to  the   CTRL  list   from  your
[EMAIL PROTECTED] account. You might be authorized to send to the
list from another of your accounts,  or perhaps when using another mail program
which  generates slightly  different  addresses,  but LISTSERV  has  no way  to
associate this other  account or address with yours. If  you need assistance or
if you have any question regarding the  policy of the CTRL list, please contact
the list owners: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 12:38:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Franklin Wayne Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: SNET: Victory City
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-  SNETNEWS  Mailing List

For Future-Cities list. See http://www.victorycities.com. Seems to be one
of the city-in-one-building designs like the Ziggurats of Keesy and
Shimizu or Bini's Tower City which would be built on shallow coastal seas.
FWP.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:24:26 -0500
From: Orville Simpson 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: W Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Victory City

I received your E mail of Dec. l8, l998 but there was no message. Could this
have been lost in transmission somehow? Please try again, as I will be
interested in hearing from you.  Orville Simpson




- Send "subscribe   snetnews " to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-  Posted by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Hawk

1999-01-08 Thread Barb Witt


 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:44 PM 1/8/99 -0600, Hugh wrote:
 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
in my opinion, that his posts..

Best wishes,
William


Hugh, although I often disagree with your views, I respect your
scholarship, civility, lack of insecurity, and tolerance.  Your ability
to engage in a lively exchange without resorting to the arrogant, ill-mannered
and unlearned tactics of the core group that is allowed to control this
list is refreshing.  You are a gentleman.

I agree that Hawk should be allowed to stay, as should anyone else who is
inclined.   It really shouldn't matter if some persons find any number of
posts offensive - isn't that "diversity"?   Theory is obviously more
palatable than the real deal for some persons.

Regards,

Barb

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread Gerald Harp


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 1:16:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 My
  understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
  the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I
  stated, the Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with
  this position. It was Lincoln and others in the northern states who
  ignored their oathes to the Constitution.

Suppose that you are quite correct in saying that Jefferson Davis, Stonewall
Jackson, Robert E. etc.  were strictly legal.  What you are missing is that
more is involved with every man's actions than legality, or for that matter,
profit.  These men in high leadership positions knew this.  What motivated
them.  They did not perform an act merely because it was legal, i.e. they did
not act arbitrarily.

They joined in the Confederacy because it stood for their way of seeing, their
way of living.  That way was based upon slavery.  The Southern leadership
could not stay in the Union without accepting a gradual change over in the
dirty little condition that made their way possible.  The North was not going
to accept additional slave states and the opposition to slavery was growing.

It was much like those doors in Deuteronomy, one leads to life and one leads
to death.  The strange thing is that the doors are very well marked.  No
mistake is possible.  Many white people in the South chose life but most of
the leaders chose death.  To be sure, choosing life is emotional; that's
because our deepest values are emotional issues with us.  The sin of keeping
people enslaved is emotional.  The slavers may taunt those who vote for
freedom as being emotional but those who would even defend slavery, much less
practice it, are also being emotional.  Part of their dysfunction is that they
must pretend to a strange machismo of the psyche.

Incidentally, in an earlier posting someone referred to the reluctance of some
of the ex-slaves to their new situation and even persistent opinion that the
old slave times were preferable.  It was sort of like the Israelis coming out
of the land of fleshpots.  Some weren't so sure.  Many of the slaves of Dixie
were dismissed from the plantations at war's end because it simply was not
profitable for the planters to keep them on.  These, now vagabonds, newly
freed illiterate blacks lined the roads in their trek north to find work.
They had only the clothes on their backs (few received 40 and a mule).  Some
died on the way but others made it to partly fuel the latter part of the
industrialization of America.

Most freed slaves far preferred their freedom but a few never obtained a
decent life and actually remembered their slavery as a better time.  Even with
the night patrols, the removal of thumbs for the crime of learning to read,
the forbiddance of prayer, and the merciless beatings when they took a bit of
extra nourishment, the commonplace forcible sex by massah and supervisors of
the slave women and, if these times are any guide, of boys and girls as well,
the fleshpots glowed in their remembrance.  Think of the filthy crimes
committed today for those fleshpots, the dismemberment of companies along with
massive disruption in lives, the unnecessary wars in Vietnam, Panama, the
Gulf, Grenada, Somalia.  Freedom came in second when we overthrew democracies
in Iran, Guatemala, Chile and installed criminal governments.  Man, how do we
free ourselves of this sort of blindness?

Jerry

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] External Forces

1999-01-08 Thread Harry Hendrickson


 -Caveat Lector-

Hello Richard,
  Suggest you purchase top of the line anti-virus program now before the
higher functions of your system come crashing down as well. I have a
moderately well designed system but I will be installing the best
anti-virus system I can afford. Too much at stake to lose my hard drive at
this juncture ! Ask some of the "computer kids" out here what they would
suggest. I may listen in myself. Good luckharry

--
 From: Source - Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] External Forces
 Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 9:27 AM

  -Caveat Lector-

 I was hoping someone was going to bring this up. I have had MAJOR
technical errors when passing and recieving information, particularly
regarding Mind Control or Government conspiracies. I also accessed a CIA
affiliated site and was infected with a serious virus.

 Can anyone deny or confirm if this is intentional and how it happens

 MARK wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Today I have emailed a friend of mine details on Mind Control and Remote
 Viewing.  Since I did this my Laptop has crashed 3 times, and my e-mail
 is working only sporadically.
 
 Has anyone else had any similar experiences after posting Conspiracy
 Theory related items, or is a just a technical glitch/coincidence??
 
 MARK
 
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
and
 nazi's need not apply.
 
 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
 
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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 Om
 
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 Subject:  [CTRL] External Forces
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives

[CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread L. Shipton





Wasn't Lincoln killed after he took out the 
Constitution so that he would not put it back, considering that it has never 
been put back. What if people could say that a Constitutional Government 
doesn't work?
Laura
AKA The Pied Piper

http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm1. 
Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission 
Possible International5950-H State Bridge Rd. 
#215 Duluth, 
GA 30097 USA 2. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 3. Return 
Asparcidal food to the store.(anything with Monsanto's 
NutraSweet/Equal/Spoonful/Benevia/NatraTaste) VISIT http://www.dorway.com Get links to over 30 
sites on aspartameVISIT http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/ 
..FAQs  CasesVISIT http://www.notmilk.com Exposing Bovine Growth 
Hormone  
Disability and Death are not acceptable costs of 
business!

Re: [CTRL] Hawk and Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread Carlene M. Wojahn


 -Caveat Lector-

Wait a second here !! I just got on, and I am hearing that people are thrown off
this list for discussing things, and one person is accused of being another !! I
am wondering if I made a mistake here, or if I say something you don't like are
you going to throw me off...

and no, I am not William, nor Hawk...I am who I say I am.  just in case I get
accused of that, because I replied.

Carlene M. Wojahn

"L. Shipton" wrote:

  -Caveat Lector-

 Considering that you were the one who (helped) lead him on - since he gave
 you a sounding board for your own ideas, this is generous of you William
 Hugh Tunstall.  I personally think that ''MAYBE" Hawk should be let back on,
 with a stern warning, and that you should be taken off. That is, if Hawk
 isn't simply some other name that you use?  In that case maybe we would be
 better off without Hawk or William.
 Laura
 AKA The Pied Piper

 -Original Message-
 From: William Hugh Tunstall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Friday, January 08, 1999 1:44 PM
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

  -Caveat Lector-
 
 Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
 I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
 All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
 this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
 spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
 I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
 in my opinion, that his posts..
 
 Best wishes,
 William
 

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Criminalizing Homelessness


 -Caveat Lector-

On  8 Jan 99 , YnrChyldzWyld wrote:

 And a general explosion of the not-in-my-backyard
 syndrome among the less-than-liberal public as it raced toward yuppie
 excess dreaming of riches and power.

 Yes, but that happened circa 1980, not 1988...

It's still happening. Recently, on the Upper West Side of NYC--the
project did finally go through and is, I think, operating
successfully. And up here in N. Bennington, VT--where I'm not quite
sure of the outcome.

Great deal of divisiveness and contention about having "those people"
in the neighborhood.




sno0wl

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Coo-Cou-Coup

1999-01-08 Thread M.A. Johnson


 -Caveat Lector-

Alamaine Ratliff forwarded:

 Senate impeachment trial opens: political coup enters
 climactic stage
 By the Editorial Board
 8 January, 1999

 The opening of the Senate impeachment trial will be
 remembered in history as a critical milestone in the
 political degeneration and breakdown of the institutions
 of American democracy. Despite overwhelming popular
 opposition, a political coup d'etat--organized by a
 cabal of neo-fascist conspirators and the far-right
 groups that control the Republican Party--is on the
 verge of victory.

MJ:
A. America is NOT a democracy.

B. If a majority of the people want to subvert justice today,
   should we not enforce what a majority of the people 'wanted'
   (or rather did NOT want) in the last two (2) presidential
   elections -- a MAJORITY of the people voted AGAINST Bill
   Clinton.

C. coup d'état (dâ-tä´) noun
   The sudden overthrow of a government by a usually small
   group of persons in or previously in positions of
   authority.

Since AlGore will be sworn-in if Mr. Clinton is removed or
resigns this emotive is nonsense.

D. Since when did we decide whether or not an American is
   guilty/innocent AND establish punishment/non-punishment
   by poll?


Regard$,
--MJ

A totalitarian state thrives on propaganda, and there
is no more effective way to limit thought than to
control the language itself.  By changing definitions
of words through continual association, any serious
discussion involving the concepts that the words
represents becomes hopelessly muddled.

The words "democracy," "hate" and "racism" immediately
comes to mind. -- Thomas Sowell

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Tunnels - GREAT URL

1999-01-08 Thread Hilary Thomas





Hey all,

Pat sent this URL to underground tunnels. It has 
where and a description of them. It's really interesting!!!
http://www.usbr.gov/wcg/tunnels/tdata.html#Colorado

Hilary

[CTRL] 50,000+ White House e-mails discovered

1999-01-08 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 from:  http://www.insightmag.com/articles/newsalert.html


 Honey Pot of Info Causes a Swarm
 -
 By Paul M. Rodriguez - Insight Magazine
 Vol. 15, No. 2 - January 11-18, 1999

 The White House has launched an investigation and rumors
 are flying at the president's compound following an
 exclusive report in news alert!  ("Looking for Information
 in All the Wrong Places," and "Computer Glitch Leads to
 Trove of 'Lost' E-Mails at White House," Dec. 28) exposing
 the existence of detailed telephone records never turned
 over under subpoena and discovery of "lost" e-mails that
 include private chit-chats between Monica Lewinsky and
 friends.

 Justice Department and congressional investigators now are
 working quietly, as one federal law-enforcement source
 tells news alert!, and "rapidly before the files
 disappear," to track down the records long sought by
 investigators.

 White House insiders and government lawyers familiar with
 the flurry of activity say that beepers and phones have
 been buzzing to determine who spilled the beans and to get
 control of the records before federal agents swarm in.
 "They're in a panic over this," a West Wing source tells
 news alert!

 Although a White House spokesman sought to minimize the
 importance of Insight's disclosure of the e-mails, of
 which there are between 50,000 and 100,000, by claiming
 some involving Lewinsky appear to have been duplicates,
 another White House aide confirms that nobody knows for
 sure how many others are originals that should have been
 turned over to investigators upon discovery in midsummer
 1998.  "It's a legal headache," a White House lawyer says.

 The telephone records are a completely different matter.
 "We were told they did not exist," one federal
 law-enforcement source says.  "If we can find them they
 will prove to be invaluable."  Indeed, the details of
 these records, which go back years, would show who was
 called and when, by dates and times -- information that,
 to date, federal and congressional investigators have
 failed to secure.

 Curiously, Justice Department officials do not appear
 eager to secure the records, according to several federal
 law-enforcement sources.  "It's as though they don't care
 you've discovered this gold mine."

 With Attorney General Janet Reno dousing an FBI-led task
 force probing campaign-finance wrongdoings, some agents
 and prosecutors believe they would not get support to
 force the White House to turn over the gold mine of
 records uncovered by news alert!.  "I must confess I don't
 understand why nobody's acted on your tip," a dejected
 federal law-enforcement source says.  Some folks at FBI
 headquarters are wondering the same thing.  Stay tuned.



 Copyright © 1999 News World Communications, Inc.




.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

[CTRL] Trojan horse steals AOL passwords, URLs

1999-01-08 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 Trojan horse steals AOL passwords, URLs
 
 By Paul Festa, January 7, 1999
 Staff Writer, CNET News.com

 A new email attachment making its way around the spam circuit
 is swiping recipients' user names and passwords and sending
 them to a Chinese email address.

 Full story:
 http://www.news.com/News/Item/0%2C4%2C30653%2C00.html?dd.ne.tx.ts3.0107

 

 story #2 of 4:

 from:  http://www.msnbc.com/news/229572.asp

 Picture.exe really a Trojan horse

 E-mail attachment, if opened, tries to send private
 information to an e-mail address originating in China
 --
 By Bob Sullivan, MSNBC

 Jan. 6 -- Here's a computer virus story that's not
 an urban legend. If you receive an attachment in e-mail
 called "picture.exe," don't open it. If you do, what happens
 next reads a bit like a spy novel -- this Trojan horse drops
 two more programs called note.exe and manager.exe which will
 search through your internet cache directory and, if you
 have one, the directory that holds your America Online
 username and password. It then encrypts that information,
 tries to establish an Internet connection, and sends it all
 to an e-mail address in China.

 PICTURE.EXE FIRST SURFACED right before Christmas, when some
 Net users were spammed with e-mail with the subject line
 "batty." Several postings to Usenet virus groups followed;
 then Network Associates engineeers received several e-mail
 alerts to what appeared to be technically not a virus but a
 Trojan horse. (A Trojan horse does not replicate on its own,
 but a virus does.)

 Network Associates has since updated its McAfee virus
 program to detect picture.exe (If you already have the
 software, an updated version can be downloaded from
 http://beta.nai.com/public/datafiles/3xupdates.htm ),
 but many questions remain about the prying program.

 "This is a more interesting Trojan than normal," said
 Vincent Gullotto, manager of the antivirus emergency
 response team for Network Associates. "It actually has the
 capability to take information and send it someplace. This
 one goes further than most and if it's successful can use
 the information against you."

 Network Associates received an unusually large number of
 e-mails from victims of picture.exe, and there are already
 dozens of Usenet posts with security experts warning about
 the danger.

 Here's how it works:

 Once a recipient opens picture.exe, that file expands into
 two other executables -- note.exe and manager.exe -- and
 places them into the Windows subdirectory. The following
 line is also added to the win.ini file: "run=note.exe."
 That makes note.exe run the next time Windows is started.

 According to Network Associates, note.exe then gathers
 information, apparently looking through the temporary
 Internet cache directory in an attempt to determine what
 Web sites users have visited. It then encrypts that
 information into a DAT file. It also appear to look in
 the directory where AOL user information is stored.

 Note.exe then builds a second DAT file.

 "It's unclear right now what the second DAT file is for,"
 Gulotto said.

 Usenet poster David Crick, a British computer science
 student who received the e-mail Dec. 23 and started the
 Usenet discussions, said, "I thought when I started
 downloading a very large e-mail: `Either someone's sent me
 an interesting piece of software, or it's a virus.' It
 turned out to be a combination of the two -- an interesting
 virus," he said.

 Crick says the file employs a crude encryption technique, a
 5-digit ASCII character shift -- where a=f, b=g, and so on.
 Other Usenet posters say the DAT file is full of e-mail
 addresses.

 After note.exe does its thing, manager.exe runs, attempting
 to e-mail the encrypted file to a e-mail addresses with the
 domain of a Chinese ISP. The recipient, of course, could be
 anywhere.

 "It appears to try to gain access to an ISP," Gulloto said.
 Several Usenet posts say that upon reboot, the Trojan horse
 opens up dial-up networking and tries to dial out of the
 infected PC.

 There are many unanswered questions -- chief among them, why
 China? Gulotto said last year his firm worked on a similar
 Trojan horse/virus with the same M/O. Called SemiSoft, it
 also gathers information and tries to send it to an e-mail
 address hosted in China. Network Associates is continuing
 to study picture.exe.

 America Online was not available for comment.


 

 story #3 of 4:


 Hole lets sites control your computer
 Security firm demonstrates active content hack
 ---
 By Bob Sullivan

 MSNBC -- Jan. 5 -- There's another reason to be careful where
 you click. Computer security firm Finjan Inc. demonstrated
 Tuesday morning another process that allows Web sites to
 reach

[CTRL] Hillary's divorce plans

1999-01-08 Thread Bill Kingsbury


 -Caveat Lector-

 from: http://www.capitolhillblue.com/Jan1999/clintondivorcejan7.htm


 It's over! First Lady tells friends, Clinton she
 will divorce him

 By Daniel J. Harris
 White House Correspondent

 First Lady Hillary Clinton has told her closest friends that her
 marriage is over and that she will divorce her husband, sources
 confirm to Capitol Hill Blue.

 Termination of her marriage will most likely occur after Clinton's
 second term as President ends on January 20, 2001, but could come
 even sooner if Mrs. Clinton decides to seek the New York U.S.
 Senate seat being vacated by Democrat Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

 "It's over," one close friend of the First Lady said Wednesday.
 "The only question is when."

 In New York state, a poll being conducted to test Mrs. Clinton's
 electability to the Senate includes questions about whether voters
 would be more or less likely to vote for her if she was no longer
 married. Three residents of New York confirmed Wednesday night that
 they were called by pollsters who asked if Mrs. Clinton's marital
 status would affect their vote. The three, who asked that their
 names not be used, initially contacted Capitol Hill Blue to reveal
 the the contents of the questions.

 As the Senate prepares to open a trial on Clinton's impeachment,
 White House insiders report that tensions between the President and
 First Lady are at an "all-time high," with frequent arguments,
 shouting matches and at least one fight where Secret Service agents
 had to pull an angry Hillary Clinton off her husband, leaving her
 husband with a bruise on his face that required extensive makeup to
 mask (that fight has been reported previously in English tabloids
 and on the Drudge Report internet site).

 Sources said Mrs. Clinton told both the President and daughter
 Chelsea before Christmas that their marriage was over and that she
 would divorce him, but she agreed to continue the public show of
 support at least until the impeachment process currently before the
 Senate is concluded.

 "She won't abandon him publicly while he is still on trial, but
 anything is possible once the Senate finishes its work," one source
 close to the First Lady said.

 New York Democratic officials are urging Mrs. Clinton to seriously
 consider a run for Moynihan's seat. New York Mayor Rudolph Guiliani
 is considering a run from the Republican ticket.

 "I think she would be a terrific candidate," says Democratic
 Senator Robert J. Torricelli. "She should run."

 Moynihan's seat has a history of carpetbagger occupancy. It was
 once held by former US Attorney General Robert Kennedy, a
 Massachusetts native who established residency in New York state
 to run for the seat

 Calls for comment to both the White House press office and the
 First Lady's press office were not returned Wednesday night.




 Capitol Hill Blue is published daily on the web. Some material is
 ©The Associated Press and © Reuters NewMedia.


 ~~

 story #2:

 from: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/pl/
   story.html?s=v/nm/19990107/pl/hillary_2.html

 Yahoo! News - Politics Headlines
 Thursday January 7 12:37 AM ET


 Mrs. Clinton's Friends Doubt She Will Seek Office

 By Laurence McQuillan

 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Aides and close friends of first lady
 Hillary Rodham Clinton Wednesday dismissed speculation she will
 seek political office, suggesting instead she will seek an
 international stage to champion her causes.

 There has been increasing speculation in recent weeks that Mrs.
 Clinton, found to be the most admired woman in America by a
 year-end Gallup Poll, will run for political office.

 Her name has been raised by some as a possible U.S. Senate
 candidate, with the lead editorial in The New York Times Tuesday
 asking "Senator Rodham?" -- a reference to speculation she would
 seek the Senate seat being vacated by veteran Democratic Sen.
 Daniel Patrick Moynihan in 2000.

 There also have been published reports Mrs. Clinton is interested
 in running for the Senate from California, Massachusetts or
 Illinois. Her name even has been mentioned in making a run for
 the White House or as vice president in 2000.

 "The only thing I want to say is that she has no plans to run"
 for elective office, said Marsha Berry, the first lady's press
 secretary, who has been flooded with queries. "That's really the
 truth of the matter."

 In private, those close to Mrs. Clinton went out of their way to
 try to dampen the speculation -- with several stressing she was far
 more likely to seek a forum that would let her continue to champion
 the causes of women and children on the international stage.

 "Personally, I can't imagine that she would run for anything," said
 a senior adviser to Mrs. Clinton. "Right now a lot of people are
 speculating about endless possibilities."

 The New York speculation was fueled by the first lady's successful
 campaigning for Democrat

[CTRL] Hillary's divorce plans

1999-01-08 Thread L. Shipton

Considering that she was one of the lawyers
around when Nixon's Waterloo (opps Watergate) happened. And then you add
the fact of the Savings in Loan scandal as well as many others she has been
in. These lead me to say that in many ways she is as dirty if not dirtier
than the Bill Clinton.

The sex scandals - because they hope that if
they can keep the American people focused on some thing like that, that the
white collar crime that the Clinton's have been involved in Together can be
sweep under the rug.

Also while I am venting - wonder what might happen if they did
have witnesses and managed to take this farther than just the sex? Could
be Hillary will be right beside that male jerk.

People have been defining Capitalism. What you should be
defining is opportunist. Has anyone heard of the Novel Rich,
it means no manners and people like that were ostracized by the
Gentry.

Respect Hillary, she is lower than the lowest
scum. And that is an insult to the scum!
Laura
AKA The Pied Piper

http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm1.
Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history. Mission
Possible International5950-H State Bridge Rd.
#215 Duluth,
GA 30097 USA 2. Tell your doctor and all of your friends! 3. Return
Asparcidal food to the store.(anything with Monsanto's
NutraSweet/Equal/Spoonful/Benevia/NatraTaste) VISIT http://www.dorway.com Get links to over 30
sites on aspartameVISIT http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/
..FAQs CasesVISIT http://www.notmilk.com Exposing Bovine Growth
Hormone
Disability and Death are not acceptable costs of
business!

Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

1999-01-08 Thread Carlene M. Wojahn


 -Caveat Lector-

Hawk wrote:

 FROM THE DIXIEDAYS-L MAILING LIST.

 Gerald Harp wrote:

   -Caveat Lector-
 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  writes:
 
   My  understanding of law has lead me to believe that the southern states had
 the legal right to leave the union and that they did so lawfully. As I stated, the
 Supreme Court of the time was probably in agreement with  this position. It was
 Lincoln and others in the northern states who  ignored their oathes to the
 Constitution.

That is my understanding as well, I have been doing a lot of research concerning
this and I have some questions

Why did states like Maine, New York, even Wisconsin, think they had the right to
secede ?

Virginia was one state ..yet part of that state broke away and became another, how can
this happen if secession is not constitutional ?

Why did the Southron states have to reapply for admission into statehood ?

When the 14th amendment was being voted on ...how come they found out for a brief
period they were non-states and could not vote on it ?

Just a few questions


  What motivated  them.  They did not perform an act merely because it was legal,
 i.e. they did  not act arbitrarily.

--No it wasn't illegal, there was talk about the northern states doing..seceding
as well.

  They joined in the Confederacy because it stood for their way of seeing, their way
 of living.  That way was based upon slavery.  The Southern leadership could not stay
 in the Union without accepting a gradual change over in the dirty little condition
 that made their way possible.

No it was more based on states rights, slavery would of disappeared on its on with
the westward movement..so the last sentence above is incorrect.

 The North was not going to accept additional slave states and the opposition to
 slavery was growing.

-But who had sold the slaves to the South ?




 Carlene M. Wojahn

 Yep...that is still my name..I am still no one else.

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER SOLVED - The truth after 35 years . . .

1999-01-08 Thread Teo1000


 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 1/8/99 2:37:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 Sorry but this website is either misinformed or more disinformation.  In
the
 UNEDITED version of the Zapruder film it is CLEAR who fired the second shot,
 the one that took his face off.  His name is William Harris and he was
driving
 the limo at the time.  He was a member of the Secret Service.  How does one
 expose the highest police body in the nation.  This is why this murder is
 still 'unsolved.'
  

Well, well, well, is that so?  Sounds like you have been listening to William
Cooper, but you should be aware of some REAL "facts" before you put your foot
in your mouth further.  The man driving the Limo at the time was not named
William Harris but William Greer.  And he did not shoot the President from the
front seat.  If you look at the new video, "Image of an assassination" which
has a very clear version of the film you can see that this is not so.  UNLESS
you want to argue alteration, etc., which some have done and continue to do.
In any case the man is not Harris but Greer.  This is not the reason (or at
least is not the only reason) that this murder is still unsolved.  The real
reason is because of the governments role in the murder and their efforts to
cloak that fact.  Additionally one might want to consider the role of secret
societies in this action as well, since a lot of the men investigating the
crime and surrounding it, and prominent after the fact are all well connected
in these societies.
Check your facts before making such sweeping statements.
Teo1000

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

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Om

Re: [CTRL] JFK MURDER is not SOLVED va this post -

1999-01-08 Thread Michael Estes


 -Caveat Lector-

Agent Smiley:

You just demonstrated your current level of ignorance. If you think the
driver of the freaking limo wasted Kennedy, then I have a ALIEN
ABDUCTION/CRASH INSURANCE policy to sell you . I am amazed that someone
could be that freaking ignorant as to believe a crock of horse sheet like
this.

What kind of an "AGENT" are you supposed to be? AGENT of the ILLUMINATI?
AGENT PROVOCATEUR? KGB? Real Estate Agent? IRAQI INTELLIGENCE? Whatever you
are an "Agent" of, I suggest you do some research before letting that
alligator mouth overload that hummingbird ass.

ME





On Friday, January 08, 1999 11:38 AM, Agent Smiley
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
  -Caveat Lector-

 Sorry but this website is either misinformed or more disinformation.  In
the
 UNEDITED version of the Zapruder film it is CLEAR who fired the second
shot,
 the one that took his face off.  His name is William Harris and he was
driving
 the limo at the time.  He was a member of the Secret Service.  How does
one
 expose the highest police body in the nation.  This is why this murder is
 still 'unsolved.'

 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
 screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
 and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
 frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
 Archives Available at:
 http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 
 To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
 SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Om

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

[CTRL] Vive La France!


 -Caveat Lector-

Now I understand *why* I'm not really upset at Billio, rather disappointed
in his inability be good at avoiding perils:  too many years as a
Francophile.  Again, as G Ferraro put it, if stupidity were grounds for
impeachment ...

From Int'l Herald Tribune

Paris, Saturday, January 9, 1999


Behind the Ridicule, the French May See Peril in Too Much Truth



By John Vinocur International Herald Tribune

PARIS - ''Truths!'' Charles de Gaulle is supposed to have shouted. ''Did
you think I could have created a (Free French) government against the
English and the Americans with truths? You make History with ambition, not
with truths.''

The quote is from a new book by Thierry Pfister, a French editor, who uses
it to illustrate his thesis that for the French mind, lying in politics is
the norm, and that anyone trying to attach a standard of truthfulness to a
politician's behavior is naive and worthy of contempt. The general, he
suggests, said as much.

This is part of Mr. Pfister's explanation of why he believes the French,
and particularly France's elites, do not understand how President Bill
Clinton could be impeached. He says that the French elite is terrified by
the case's implications for its privileges, and that this is the reason,
much more than in other democratic countries, that the yearlong reaction
here to the impeachment process has been one of ridicule, self-satisfied
righteousness, and feigned concern for the future of the United States.

For the French elite, Mr. Pfister maintains, ''there are virtually no
consequences for lying. It's O.K.''

Certainly nowhere in or outside the United States has the handling of the
Clinton-Lewinsky scandal been held up as a model of civic procedure. But in
France, the circumstances are seen, Mr. Pfister says, as an ongoing means
to contrast ''a reactionary American puritanism against progressive French
tolerance.''

This week, while CNN's commentators were talking about the solemnity of the
opening public proceedings in the Senate, the anchorman on the France 3
state television news at 11 P.M. was describing it as ''a lamentable
show.'' In a Page One editorial accompanying the Clinton trial, Le Figaro
cried out, ''Wake up, Tocqueville, they've gone mad. When you look at the
distressing spectacle that American democracy is offering, you say to
yourself that the man who described it best must not be very comfortable up
there in the heavens.''

For Mr. Pfister, who served as spokesman for former Prime Minister Pierre
Mauroy in President Francois Mitterrand's first Socialist government and as
a writer for Le Monde and Le Nouvel Observateur magazine, there is more
political lying in France than in other democracies because its democratic
culture is weaker. In this context, he said in an interview, a historical
climate of lies involving the reaction of the French to the Nazi
occupation, the French colonial war in Algeria, and the corruption of the
Mitterrand years, makes Bill Clinton's vulnerability for alleged lying
under oath an almost otherworldly matter here.

''That's why the situation is incomprehensible for French public opinion,''
Mr. Pfister wrote. ''Punishing lies - what naivete!''

Among its officials, ''France has a cult of lying,'' Mr. Pfister insists.

''With us, lying gets a good press,'' he said. ''Some see it as a Latin
characteristic, others as the sign of a superior civilization.'' He said,
''Attempting to limit its use makes you look ridiculous. Playing Don
Quixote is the equivalent of confronting standard social usage, discussed
from time to time, but never really brought into question.''

No particular fan of an American model, Mr. Pfister describes the
investigation of Mr. Clinton by Kenneth Starr as partisan, inspired by the
right wing of the Republican Party, and using inquisition-like methods.

But he goes after the notion that there was some kind of elegance or
refinement in the political circumstances that allowed Mr. Mitterrand to
keep his double family life from public knowledge, at the same time that he
published innocuous health bulletins that hid his developing cancer. The
French were treated not so much as citizens, but infantile subjects, the
writer said.

If it was fine that the French hardly seemed disturbed on learning about
Mr. Mitterrand's second family after his death, Mr. Pfister argued ''it is
nonetheless unacceptable that the news was delivered to them so late.''

''The reality is that it is this contempt, this institutional dissimulating
that is being defended by everyone running to Bill Clinton's defense.''

Mr. Pfister singled out the Socialist president of the foreign affairs
commission of the National Assembly, Jack Lang, as an example of the French
public and media figures who were expressing shock about a so-called
re-birth of McCarthyism in the United States,

[CTRL] Iraqiana: 01-08


 -Caveat Lector-

From ArabicNews.CoM

A critical decision for the Iraqi national council, tomorrow
Iraq, Politics, 1/8/99

Well-informed Iraqi sources in Amman said that the Iraqi national council
(Parliament) will hold an emergency session tomorrow (Saturday) at the
invitation of the Iraqi leadership in order to derive "public support" for
a political decision aiming at "legalizing" retaliation to any sources of
threats "launched from neighboring countries."

The sources added that the draft decision agreed upon by the Iraqi military
and political leaders stressed "Iraq's right to repel the warplanes and
missiles and forces launched against it from countries in the region."

The sources continued that the two Iraqi leaders which are directly
supervised by President Saddam Hussein found out that "the best ways to
prevent these countries from providing support is to make it feel the great
consequences of its act."

The Iraqi national council will also discuss decisions which reassert
"categorical refusal to deal with UNSCOM, and the besiege and condemnation
of the aggression."

It is also expected that the council will submit a governmental plan for
defense and supply. It will also release a statement in which it calls upon
Arab governments to abide by decisions taken by its parliaments issued by
the meeting they held in Amman and declared support for Iraq.

Member of the Iraqi national council Abdul Razzqa al-Heiti said " these
issues will be the basis for Saturday's meeting which is "important and
urgent."

Ba'ath -- how do they interrelate?  Syria  Iraq  ? 

Syrian Baath Party regional leadership unanimously nominates President
al-Assad for fifth term
Syria, Politics, 1/8/99

The assistant regional secretary of the Baath Arab socialist party,
Suleiman Qaddah, on Thursday morning told the Syrian news agency, SANA,
that, "On March 12, 1999, Syrian President al-Assad's term of office will
end according to item 84 of the Syrian constitution.

"The Baath party regional leadership met on Wednesday, January 6, 1999 and
adopted a unanimous decision to nominate President al-Assad for a new term
of office. By its decision to nominate President al-Assad for a new term of
office, the Baath Party regional leadership responds to the will of our
people and their ambitions and to the national and pan-Arab interests as
well as requirements of the current phase the Arab nation passes."

Meantime, the speaker of the people's assembly, Abdul Qader Qaddoura,
received the book that includes the Baath party's unanimous decision to
nominate President al-Assad for a new term of office.

Qaddoura said that the Syrian People Assembly will start a special session
next Monday at noon to study the report submitted by the Baath party
regional leadership. He added the PA will submit the book to a special
committee to be formed for this purpose and to be chaired by the Deputy
People Assembly Speaker and include all parties and activists represented
in the people's assembly in order to draft a report to be submitted to the
People Assembly for debate.

Qaddoura added that committee's report will be submitted following the
public debate on voting, then the People Assembly speaker will set a date
for the referendum and will invite the Syrian people to take part in the
referendum.

Qaddoura said the public referendum for the new constitutional term will be
held in the first half of February.

In his press conference, the PA speaker stressed that this nomination came
as a response to "people's national and historical requirements under the
conditions the Arab masses undergo due to the clear vision and
farsightedness President al-Assad enjoys."

After Qaddoura highlighted the traits of President al-Assad as a prominent
Syrian leader, he answered all questions asked by journalists concerning
several issues relating to nomination procedures and the referendum
operation.

ArabicNews
Sources affiliated to the Iraqi National Conference stated that US and
British delegations is heading soon to Iraqi Kurdistan for following up
implementing Washington's accord lately held between the 2 Kurdish parties
and that a meeting will be held between secretary general of the Patriotic
Union of Kurdistan, Jalal Talibani and the chairman of the Kurdistani
Democratic Party, Mesout Barzani in the main head quarter of the Kurdish
Democratic Party today during the visit of the British and the US
delegations.

From Reuters

Friday January 8 3:59 PM ET

Raids Killed Key Iraqi Officials, Says Shelton

By Charles Aldinger

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. intelligence indicates last month's damaging
air raids on Iraq killed key government officials and have left President
Saddam Hussein increasingly desperate, the Pentagon's top general said
Friday.

Army Gen. Henry Shelton, head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters
that the losses of key advisers, deaths of as many as 1,600 elite
Republican Guard troops and others, and

[CTRL] Ziggurats for Danno...

1999-01-08 Thread culturex

 -Caveat Lector-

we the Ziggurat builders of the world are conspiring against you
Danno.
FWP.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 13:05:42 -0800 (PST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Future-Cities] Victory City

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

For Future-Cities list. See http://www.victorycities.com. Seems to be one
of the city-in-one-building designs like the Ziggurats of Keesy and
Shimizu or Bini's Tower City which would be built on shallow coastal seas.
FWP.

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 23:24:26 -0500
From: Orville Simpson 11 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: W Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Victory City

I received your E mail of Dec. l8, l998 but there was no message. Could this
have been lost in transmission somehow? Please try again, as I will be
interested in hearing from you.  Orville Simpson

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*** With world population increasing at almost 100,000,000/year what will cities of 
the next century and next millenium be like? ***

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: HRH Prince Nicholas deVere






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Timothy B. Carmain)

I've finally managed to enlarge de Vere's genealogy from the Dragon Order
web page, and I must say it gets points for sheer inventiveness.  Much of it
is absolutely certifiable, i.e the descent from Pepin III and the lineage of
the Earls of Oxford (with the possible exception of their descent from the
Tuatha de Danaan who are mythological beings).  However, de Vere's line
seems to be grafted on circa 1139 with a younger son of Alberic de Vere,
Count of Guisnes by the name of Robert, who I can't seem to locate in my
usual sources.  This Robert is purportedly the progenitor of the "Royal Vere
of Scotland" line (odd since I've never come across a reference to the de
Veres as kings of Scotland), wherein the name was corrupted to "Weir" some
centuries later.  The unbroken line continues down to the present day
through various Lords Weir of Vere (?), who surprisingly aren't noted
anywhere in Burke's Peerage, Burke's Landed Gentry, Debrett's Peerage, or
Ruvigny's Titled Nobility of Europe.  This, according to Prince Nicholas, is
the line of the Hereditary Dragon Lords of Sarkany Rend - but he stops short
of explaining how a Scots family (and the "Royal" family to boot!) came to
head up what he identifies elsewhere as a Hungarian order, established by a
German Emperor and consort of a Queen of Hungary who was herself of French
ancestry... 'tis a mystery still.  The line culminates with "HRH The
Princeps Draconis, Nicholas II (?) de Vere, Sovereign Grand Master of the
Imperial and Royal Dragon Court, Sarkany Rend, Grand Master of the Knights
Templar, and HRH The Prince Drakenberg".  It would appear that "Prince"
Michael and the Stewarts have been swept aside for the "Weir de Veres".

I faxed these charts to a genealogist chum up in San Francisco, as he is
fairly up on his faux claimants as well.  Surprisingly, my friend called me
to say that he had seen these charts before, although the "Weir de Vere"
surname was a new inclusion.  He identified "Prince Nicholas" as one Tom
Weir, a Scotsman who at one time claimed that the Habsburgs were
illegitimate and that they had usurped the throne of the Holy Roman Empire
from the de Vere dynasty.  Aside from the fact that it's a bit difficult to
usurp an elective throne, Mr. Weir's contention that the German "W" is
pronounced "V", thus Weir=Vere is a bit off.  In German, "ei" is pronounced
as a long "i", thus if pronounced in German, "Weir" would be pronounced as
"Vire", rhyming with "fire".  My colleague seems to think that the author of
these very imaginative charts is none other than "Sir" Laurence Gardner
himself, apparently a close associate of Mr. Weir.

Tim Carmain

Timothy B. Carmain
Business Manager, Mesa Court Housing
University of California, Irvine
(949) 824-7533 voice, (949) 824-3046 fax



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Re: [CTRL] Tunnels - GREAT URL

1999-01-08 Thread Hilary Thomas


 -Caveat Lector-

Robert wrote:


  Back in November Hoagland used the web link (except it was to Arizona) as
suggested proof that underground activity was happening near turret
peak...which allegedly confirmed what his "informants" were telling him.
You
may remember
the furor over the Dec 7th landing date blah blah blah, which when the
landing
did
not happen, was changed to 'well something happened, but it was
underground...'

snip

Hiya Robert,

Can't say that I'm a Hoagland fan.  I believe that there are tunnels for
very innocent reasons.  But why would we need 5 and 10 mile long tunnels in
the middle of no where?  There's a 9 mile tunnel in Chama.  I've been to
Chama.  It's dinky little town - there's nothing there.  I mean a small
town - with a gas pump and that's about it!  Now, the southwest is famous
for old mines but, I suspect that this isn't an old mining tunnel.  It's a
little weird.  I could ask around and see what the local folk have to say
about it.

Hilary

DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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[CTRL] SERMON: WHO WAS KING JAMES

1999-01-08 Thread Michael Estes


 -Caveat Lector-

WHO WAS KING JAMES

For the last three centuries Protestants have fancied themselves the heirs
of the Reformation, the Puritans, the Calvinists, and the Pilgrims who
landed at Plymouth Rock. This assumption is one of histories greatest
ironies. Today, Protestants laboring under that assumption use the King
James Bible. Most of the new Bibles such as the Revised Standard Version
are simply updates of the King James.

The irony is that none of the groups named in the preceding paragraph used
a King James Bible nor would they have used it if it had been given to them
free. The Bible in use by those groups, until it went out of print in 1644,
was the Geneva Bible. The first Geneva Bible, both Old and New Testaments,
was first published in English in 1560 in what is now Geneva, Switzerland.
William Shakespeare, John Bunyan, John Milton, the Pilgrims who landed on
Plymouth Rock in 1620, and other luminaries of that era used the Geneva
Bible exclusively.

Until he had his own version named after him, so did King James I of
England. James I later tried to disclaim any knowledge of the Geneva Bible,
though he quoted the Geneva Bible in his own writings. As a Professor Eadie
reported it:

"his virtual disclaimer of all knowledge up to a late period of the
Genevan notes and version was simply a bold, unblushing falsehood, a clumsy
attempt to sever himself and his earlier Scottish beliefs and usages that
he might win favor with his English churchmen."

The irony goes further. King James did not encourage a translation of the
Bible in order to enlighten the common people: his sole intent was to deny
them the marginal notes of the Geneva Bible. The marginal notes of the
Geneva version were what made it so popular with the common people.

The King James Bible was, and is for all practical purposes, a government
publication.

There were several reasons for the King James Bible being a government
publication.

First, King James I of England was a devout believer in the "divine right
of kings," a philosophy ingrained in him by his mother Mary Stuart. Mary
Stuart may have been having an affair with her Italian secretary, David
Rizzio, at the time she conceived James. There is a better than even chance
that James was the product of adultery. Apparently, enough evidence of such
conduct on the part of Mary Stuart and David Rizio existed to cause various
Scot nobles, including Mary's own husband, King Henry, to drag David Rizzio
from Mary's supper table and execute him. The Scot nobles hacked and
slashed at the screaming Rizzio with knives and swords, and then threw him
off a balcony to the courtyard below where he landed with a sickening
smack. In the phrase of that day, he had been scotched.

Mary did have affairs with other men, such as the Earl of Bothwell. She
later tried to execute her husband in a gunpowder explosion that shook all
of Edinburgh. King Henry survived the explosion only to be suffocated later
that same night. The murderers were never discovered. Mary was eventually
beheaded at the order of her cousin, Elizabeth I of England.

To such individuals as James and his mother, Mary, the "divine right of
kings" meant that since a king's power came from God, the king then had to
answer to no one but God. This lack of responsibility extended to evil
kings. The reasoning was that if a king was evil, that was a punishment
sent from God. The citizens should then suffer in silence. If a king was
good, that was a blessing sent from God.

This is why the Geneva Bible annoyed King James I. The Geneva Bible had
marginal notes that simply didn't conform to that point of view. Those
marginal notes had been, to a great extent, placed in the Geneva Bible by
the leaders of the Reformation, including John Knox and John Calvin. Knox
and Calvin could not and cannot be dismissed lightly or their opinions
passed off to the public as the mere ditherings of dissidents.

First, notes such as, "When tyrants cannot prevail by craft they burst
forth into open rage," (Note i, Exodus 1:22) really bothered King James.

Second, religion in James' time was not what it is today. In that era
religion was controlled by the government. If someone lived in Spain at the
time, he had three religious "choices:"

1. Roman Catholicism

2. Silence.

3. The Inquisition

The third "option" was reserved for "heretics," or people who didn't think
the way the government wanted them to. To governments of that era heresy
and treason were synonymous.

England wasn't much different. From the time of Henry VIII on, an
Englishman had three choices

1. The Anglican Church.

2. Silence.

3. The rack, burning at the stake, being drawn and quartered, or some other
form of persuasion.

The hapless individuals who fell into the hands of the government for
holding religious opinions of their own were simply punished according to
the royal whim.

Henry Vl11, once he had appointed himself head of all the English churches,
kept the Roman Catholic system

[CTRL] Hawk et al