[fonc] photography and programming

2012-12-04 Thread John Carlson
Wouldn't it be best to make programming a bit like single lens photography instead of dual (or triple) lens photography? It would seem like the fewer lenses you use, the less likely it would be for one of them to be scratched. Unless somehow there was a compensating factor in the lenses. My

Re: [fonc] [info] [racket] OPERATING SYSTEM ON A FPGA (fwd)

2012-12-07 Thread John Carlson
Maybe we shouldn't be focusing on FPGAs and instead focus on memristors. On Dec 7, 2012 1:37 AM, Eugen Leitl eu...@leitl.org wrote: - Forwarded message from Tomasz Rola rto...@ceti.pl - From: Tomasz Rola rto...@ceti.pl Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2012 23:58:57 +0100 (CET) To: i...@postbiota.org

Re: [fonc] Views in FoNC, FoNC in organizations

2012-12-08 Thread John Carlson
It seems like the more views we create, the more jobs we create. Perhaps we should be grouping views into skill sets, interests, or organizational roles. What kinds of capabilities are required for each view and which type of people does the organization want manipulating the capabilities?

Re: [fonc] Views in FoNC

2012-12-08 Thread John Carlson
/2012, at 3:09 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: So I was just designing a generic architecture presentation, and I came up with 5 different types of views. Are there more? Editor (programmer, designer, scripter) Debugger (programmer) Browser (end user, player, sharing

Re: [fonc] Views in FoNC

2012-12-08 Thread John Carlson
The reason is to keep my brain active. I like categorizing stuff. Here's another take on the same thing: Creating Habits Performing Behavior Introspecting Behavior Watching Behavior Controlling Behavior Protecting Behavior Sharing Behavior Criticizing Behavior Commenting on Behavior How many

Re: [fonc] Molotov cocktail #2

2012-12-22 Thread John Carlson
I for one am thankful for getting rid of CRTs. It's better than having the world flashing in front of my eyes like a CRT. On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:21 AM, John Pratt jpra...@gmail.com wrote: There is one other problem with modern computers: anti-aliasing is an injurious blur that can never

Re: [fonc] Falun Dafa

2012-12-22 Thread John Carlson
Or going out and sledding in the snow with my daughter. Have a white Christmas everyone! On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 11:28 AM, John Pratt jpra...@gmail.com wrote: I want to tell everyone on this list about something I found. Maybe someone out there hears what I say, thinks I am pretty crazy

Re: [fonc] Falun Dafa

2012-12-23 Thread John Carlson
On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 12:37 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/22/2012 9:11 PM, Julian Leviston wrote: I think you've missed the point. The point is... you need to use your body and your emotions as well as your mind. Our society is overly focussed on the mind. could be, fair

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
John, The FONC grant is done. Let it be. Please leave your email behavior at the door. As to why science cannot believe in such things is because of Godel's Incompleteness Theorems. Science doesn't have an axiom for it like it does for a point (in math). Find the most succinct axiom you can

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
Sorry, I use it too much. What I was trying to say was that science doesn't have an axiom for Falun Dafa, like science has for a point. On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:03 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: John, The FONC grant is done. Let it be. Please leave your email behavior

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
, 2012, at 4:03 PM, John Carlson wrote: John, The FONC grant is done. Let it be. Please leave your email behavior at the door. As to why science cannot believe in such things is because of Godel's Incompleteness Theorems. Science doesn't have an axiom for it like it does for a point (in math

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
, but now I challenge them. Do you have some bad axioms I should reject, and the reasons behind them? On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:27 PM, John Pratt jpra...@gmail.com wrote: I see. So you let other people think for you. On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:23 PM, John Carlson wrote: John, check out

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
And you let Falun Dafta think for you? Have you say anything positive about anything else? On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 6:27 PM, John Pratt jpra...@gmail.com wrote: I see. So you let other people think for you. On Dec 29, 2012, at 4:23 PM, John Carlson wrote: John, check out Munchhausen's

Re: [fonc] Send Science to the Landfill

2012-12-29 Thread John Carlson
sorry folks, I let some messages slip through that were intended for John P. My mistake On Sat, Dec 29, 2012 at 7:36 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Well, my idea of the universe is my own devising, but perhaps I was influenced by Raelism at a young age without knowing it. I

Re: [fonc] Linus Chews Up Kernel Maintainer For Introducing Userspace Bug - Slashdot

2012-12-31 Thread John Carlson
I would hope that something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z_notationcould be used to specify computer systems. No, I've never used Z notation. It looks like WSDL 2.0 contains it. Cucumber seems more practical, but along the same lines. I've never used Cucumber either. The problem is that

[fonc] deriving a POL from existing code

2013-01-08 Thread John Carlson
Has anyone ever attempted to automatically add meaning, semantics, longer variable names, loops, and comments automatically to code? Just how good are the beautifiers out there, and can we do better? No, I'm not asking anyone to break a license agreement. Ideally, I would want this to work on

Re: [fonc] deriving a POL from existing code

2013-01-09 Thread John Carlson
I've been collecting references to game POLs on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_entertainment_language ever since I found Barney Pell's METAGAME. I've also been collecting Game IDEs on a similar page, which should probably be folded into the game engines page. Probably some of

[fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-12 Thread John Carlson
Although I have read very little about the design of the web, things are starting to gel in my mind. At the lowest level lies the static or declarative part of the web. The html, dom, xml and json are the main languages used in the declarative part. Layered on top of this is the dynamic or

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
I've done some postscript programming. I guess I see the shading languages more a successor to postscript than any revival of display postscript and its onerous licensing. People are already trying to put javascript into the gpu. I haven't seen nile, but I assume that it works with gpus. What

Re: [fonc] Terminology: Object Oriented vs Message Oriented

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
If doing experiment means experimenting with meaning, I agree. On Feb 13, 2013 3:17 PM, Barry Jay barry@uts.edu.au wrote: ** Hi Alan, the phrase I picked up on was doing experiments. One way to think of the problem is that we are trying to automate the scientific process, which is a

Re: [fonc] Terminology: Object Oriented vs Message Oriented

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
reason chooses the experiments, and uses them to test hypotheses, i.e. to extract meaning, so perhaps experimenting for meaning or experimenting to recover, or discover, meaning is closer to what I had in mind. On 02/14/2013 08:21 AM, John Carlson wrote: If doing experiment means experimenting

[fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
Miles wrote: There's a pretty good argument to be made that what works are powerful building blocks that can be combined in lots of different ways; So the next big thing will be some version of minecraft? Or perhaps the older toontalk? Agentcubes? What is the right 3D metaphor? Does anyone

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
On Feb 13, 2013 7:57 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Ahh... but my argument is that the architecture of the current web is SIMPLER than earlier concepts but has proven more powerful (or at least more effective). If you believe that, I've got a perl script I want to sell

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
. X3D is a textual language. When asked about security on the X3D-public list, the suggestion was to use session idsyeah, right, one key for the whole browser. On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.netwrote: John Carlson wrote: Miles wrote: There's

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-13 Thread John Carlson
:18 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, I thought DIS only sent id, position, orientation, velocity and acceleration. Do objects own their properties, or can anyone on the network provide them? I've heard of people mixing X3D with DIS. I thought that X3D provided all the modelling

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
mfidel...@meetinghouse.netwrote: John Carlson wrote: On Feb 13, 2013 7:57 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.netmailto: mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Ahh... but my argument is that the architecture of the current web is SIMPLER than earlier concepts

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
, 2013 at 5:55 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Miles wrote: There's a pretty good argument to be made that what works are powerful building blocks that can be combined in lots of different ways; So the next big thing will be some version of minecraft? Or perhaps the older toontalk

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
That is, can one make money with Open Cobalt? On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:17 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Alan, Any news if Open Cobalt supports auctions, banks, or ads yet? Thanks, John On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Alan Kay alan.n...@yahoo.com wrote: And of course

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
/wiki/Virtual_world#cite_note-43 On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:22 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: That is, can one make money with Open Cobalt? On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:17 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Alan, Any news if Open Cobalt supports auctions, banks, or ads yet

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
On Feb 14, 2013 12:52 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Well, at least in principle, drop an html file in a directory (behind a server) and it gets served (or drop it in a WebDAV folder). That sounds like the web circa 1993. Again, you have to configure all the hyperlinks

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
(error messages). On Feb 14, 2013 2:45 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: John Carlson wrote: On Feb 14, 2013 12:52 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.netmailto: mfidelman@**meetinghouse.net mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote: Well, at least in principle, drop

Re: [fonc] Building blocks and use of text

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
Perhaps. I believe for anything to truly succeed, it should support secure commerce. Does the current text infrastructure support secure commerce? Or are we lying to ourselves? On Feb 14, 2013 12:10 PM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2013-02-14, at 16:22, John Carlson yottz

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
What I am suggesting is using full http with json is superior to rest. For your session id based puts, how are you accumulating errors? Or are you? On Feb 14, 2013 3:26 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 1:01 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: PUTs

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
REST was a simplification of HTTP. I am merely reporting backlash against REST. Also there is backlash against XML which is why people are using JSON. There was probably quite a bit of design of HTTP, but I could see MIME being replaced with something else. Is there any truth to the rumor

[fonc] collections and rest

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
Here's where I believe the issue lies: 1. Adding approximately 100 or more objects to a collection backed by a relational database, in an interactive system. I believe the time for the transaction(s) took too long. I am not sure if the REST service supported by the database used a single

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
Miles wrote: For the most part, if you want to retrieve JSON data, you need to use some protocol - the RESTful model is to address the data with a URL, and use an HTTP GET. If you want to upload or replace some data, you use HTTP PUT, and to delete it you use HTTP DELETE. That's about as simple

Re: [fonc] collections and rest

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
...@meetinghouse.net wrote: John Carlson wrote: Here's where I believe the issue lies: 1. Adding approximately 100 or more objects to a collection backed by a relational database, in an interactive system. I believe the time for the transaction(s) took too long. I am not sure if the REST service

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-14 Thread John Carlson
You are speculating that it is too slow. Have you benchmarked it? I didn't benchmark it. Someone else did. The bechmarking was done right as I was joining the project. It's been a while. The database team controlled the REST services at the time. I suspect, but am unsure, that the REST

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
are protected both ways I believe. Still, that's a lot of open connections. On Feb 15, 2013 2:58 AM, J. Andrew Rogers and...@jarbox.org wrote: On Feb 15, 2013, at 12:10 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I can't say anything about REST in general being slow. I would like to see better

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:10 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: The way I read rest over http post (wikipedia) is that you either create a new entry in a collection uri, or you create a new entry in the element uri, which becomes a collection

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
The last they should be POSTs. Forgive my typos. For some unknown reason I am using my phone On Feb 15, 2013 3:52 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: The most important paragraph is at the bottom. It depends on the implementation of PUT. If it's implemented as a delete followed

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
: On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 1:52 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the best thing to do is use POST to create objects and quit trying to fool people with your smartness. You're only asking for trouble if you do otherwise. Ah, the people are too dumb to understand anything

[fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
Sorry we got into a big discussion about the web. I really want to discuss POLs for rules, css being one of them. And in particular, once we have a good POL, how to test it, and author with it--how to create a great POL program? But what about probablistic rules? Can we design an ultimate

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I know of a few sites/tools which critcise your wesite...is there one for css? On Feb 15, 2013 1:02 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry we got into a big discussion about the web. I really want to discuss POLs for rules, css being one of them. And in particular, once we have

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I guess what I am asking for is a critic service. For both POLs and uses of POLs. Can POLs be designed such that uses of POLs ensure good design? Good architecture? I am way beyond my technical knowledge here. On Feb 15, 2013 1:19 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I know of a few

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
if you're going to do something surprising, then document it next to the code. On Feb 15, 2013 1:33 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: The most valuable part of the POST is the database generated ID. I realize

Re: [fonc] Design of web, POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I am against showing ids to the end user. With rest you can do a get on a collection uri and see all the entry ids. On Feb 15, 2013 1:33 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 10:30 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: The most valuable part of the POST

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
making the validation of the how possible. BDD (behavior driven development) is the closest approach I have found to this - however the silver bullet of automatic validation from your declared behaviors is far from having been found. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
validation from your declared behaviors is far from having been found. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I guess what I am asking for is a critic service. For both POLs and uses of POLs. Can POLs be designed such that uses of POLs ensure good design? Good

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
programming' tends to bridge the gap with HCI.) On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 11:33 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I guess what I am asking for is a critic service. For both POLs and uses of POLs. Can POLs be designed such that uses of POLs ensure good design? Good architecture? I am way

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
to this - however the silver bullet of automatic validation from your declared behaviors is far from having been found. On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 12:33 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I guess what I am asking for is a critic service. For both POLs and uses of POLs. Can POLs

Re: [fonc] POLs for rules. Fuzz testing nile

2013-02-15 Thread John Carlson
I.e.: given new code is checked in When code coverage is complete And all tests succeed Then deploy to integration On Feb 15, 2013 3:30 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Could one analyze the test code (not the main source code) assuming it is complete enough and make a determination

Re: [fonc] Pre post conditionals dependency graphs for PEGs or Ometa

2013-03-14 Thread John Carlson
Sounds like a fancy shell program. I have considered temporal state machines which recognize temporal state machines? I talked with one person who had researched them in europe. I think they may be handled in augmented transition machines. You may want to look at promises as well. I think

Re: [fonc] Binary Lambda Calculus

2013-03-25 Thread John Carlson
So is anyone looking at binary parser generators? It would seem like something like this would have been done ages ago. On Mar 25, 2013 12:07 PM, Andre van Delft andre.vande...@gmail.com wrote: Op 25 mrt. 2013, om 17:35 heeft John Tromp john.tr...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: PGA is

[fonc] Behavior reuse through copy and paste between applications.

2013-03-29 Thread John Carlson
I'm not sure if this is on subject or not. I recently considered not only copying data between applications, but also copying behavior. I know the typical response would be to tell the user to go find the behavior in the source code or library. What if some simple keystrokes could copy and paste

Re: [fonc] Behavior reuse through copy and paste between applications.

2013-03-29 Thread John Carlson
I'm thinking more about copying behavior between different address spaces. On Mar 29, 2013 11:27 PM, Yoshiki Ohshima yoshiki.ohsh...@acm.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 9:19 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure if this is on subject or not. I recently considered not only

Re: [fonc] The world's biggest exporter of crazy talk? Meme engineering?

2013-04-03 Thread John Carlson
What's a plant and what is an animal? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysia_chlorotica Fwiw, John On Apr 3, 2013 3:41 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: For me, classification, taxonomy, categorization, schema and ontology are contentious ideas. Fwiw, Johb On Apr 3, 2013 2:56 PM

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-04 Thread John Carlson
I didn't see lojban mentioned. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban On Apr 4, 2013 3:19 PM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: The main source of invention is not math wins as described on http://www.vpri.org/html/work/ifnct.htm since the world would be speaking math if it were

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-04 Thread John Carlson
Esperanto was intended to be a human understandable language. Lojban is intended to be a computer and human understandable language...huge difference. On Apr 4, 2013 3:39 PM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:26 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-04 Thread John Carlson
Natural languages include tenses. What computer systems have a wide variety of tenses? ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
I once hear it said that Jesus didn't tell us to be perfect, instead he told us to mature and bear good fruit. Have you? On Apr 6, 2013 5:32 AM, Kirk Fraser overcomer@gmail.com wrote: Most likely your personal skills at natural language are insufficient to understand Revelation in the

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
Sorry. I meant heard. Obviously I am imperfect. I have read Foucault's Pendulum, however. Maybe we should start quoting it instead of the Bible. On Apr 6, 2013 9:36 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I once hear it said that Jesus didn't tell us to be perfect, instead he told us

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
My favorite Umberto Eco quote from Foucault's Pendulum is vous etes fou (sorry english keyboard).▲ On Apr 6, 2013 9:53 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry. I meant heard. Obviously I am imperfect. I have read Foucault's Pendulum, however. Maybe we should start quoting

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned to Israel in 1948. It seems that god has a way of overturning predictions.

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred to the European Union. We also thought that Jesus had to return by 1988, because that was one generation past when the Jews returned

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-06 Thread John Carlson
And by 2028, we will be living 120 years or more, which will extend the end-event even more. On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, BGB cr88...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/6/2013 10:59 AM, John Carlson wrote: When I was studying Revelation in the 1980s. We thought this same scripture referred

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-07 Thread John Carlson
On further review the person in question admitted being human...one of God's bots he says. I'm trying to convince him that God wants more than bots. I just realized the religious discussion was likely created by a bot. Sorry. John ___ fonc mailing

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-07 Thread John Carlson
Why math/logic loses, munchhausen trilemma: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma On Apr 7, 2013 8:20 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: On further review the person in question admitted being human...one of God's bots he says. I'm trying to convince him that God

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins (Lt and other DSLs)

2013-04-07 Thread John Carlson
I looked at Lt. Reminds me of John Orwant's Extensible Graphical Game Generator. If you like s-expressions, there are other DSLs for games from stanford and australia. Are you envisioning a DSL for NLP? On Apr 7, 2013 9:27 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: What is the Peano of NLP

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins (Lt and other DSLs)

2013-04-07 Thread John Carlson
It would seem like NLP should be based on phonemes, not written language. One cannot say what the name of God is, because written Hebrew lacks vowels. We should go with phonemes, I believe. On Apr 7, 2013 9:36 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I looked at Lt. Reminds me of John

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
So it's message recognition and not actor recognition? Can actors collaborate to recognize a message? I'm trying to put this in terms of subjective/objective. In a subjective world there are only messages (waves). In an objective world there are computers and routers and networks (actors,

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
Sometimes I think that something like http://leapmotion.com will use something like Ameslan to revolutionize programming. Maybe programming will become less sedentary and more like dance dance revolution. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
I thought the desktop metaphor was programming. On Apr 9, 2013 12:08 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a distinction between programming a mobile phone and programming when mobile. True

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
Base 13 folks. On Apr 12, 2013 3:41 AM, GrrrWaaa grrrw...@gmail.com wrote: It doesn't reply forty-two? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081019212355AAHkApl On Apr 9, 2013, at 5:48 PM, Casey Ransberger wrote: It's tragic that Siri can't tell me what you get when you multiply

[fonc] CodeSpells. Learn how to program Java by writing spells for a 3D environment.

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
http://www.jacobsschool.ucsd.edu/news/news_releases/release.sfe?id=1347 ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] CodeSpells. Learn how to program Java by writing spells for a 3D environment.

2013-04-12 Thread John Carlson
Btw, is this the same Griswold of Snobol and Icon (programming languages) fame? On Apr 12, 2013 3:20 PM, shaun gilchrist shaunxc...@gmail.com wrote: One of the fundamentals we are all still grasping at is how to teach programming. These are links to people attempting to contribute something

[fonc] holy grail of FONC?

2013-04-13 Thread John Carlson
Is the holy grail of FONC to create an environment where you can use command line, text editor, IDE, and end-user programming to program the same program? Are there any other ways to program? Circuit boards? I believe FONC includes this. Speech and gestures? Does FONC provide a way to use

Re: [fonc] holy grail of FONC?

2013-04-13 Thread John Carlson
One initiative which is interesting is Worlds which could function as a kind of exploratory programmer's undo. This has been covered in various papers on the VPRI writings page, and touched upon IIRC in some of the NSF updates. It's actually IMHO one of the unsung heroes of what these people have

[fonc] Quick off topic question

2013-04-18 Thread John Carlson
Does anyone have a fast API for getting/putting the nth line of a file? This would replace a relational way of storing strings, caching is acceptable. C++ is preferred. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org http://vpri.org/mailman/listinfo/fonc

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
then how many transcendental symbols are there? I think you still run into Russell's Paradox. On Apr 20, 2013 9:15 PM, Simon Forman forman.si...@gmail.com wrote: On 4/20/13, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Do you need one symbol for the number infinity and another for denoting that a set

Re: [fonc] 90% glue code [universal language]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Take my word for it, theory comes down to Monday Night Football on ESPN. On Apr 20, 2013 10:13 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I think that concepts in some sense transcend the universe. Are there more digits in pi than there are atoms in the universe? I guess we are asking

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Here's my theory: reduce arguing with the compiler to minimum. This means reducing programmers' syntax errors. Only add syntax to reduce errors (the famous FORTRAN do loop error). The syntax that creates errors should be removed. On Apr 20, 2013 11:18 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote

[fonc] Universal language and system programming

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
If there truly is a universal language, is it a systems language? A logic language can describe hardware. What about things like pointers? Have they come up with self-referential logic? On Apr 20, 2013 11:18 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's better to work from examples

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
on collections of domain widgets? On Apr 21, 2013 12:02 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, you're right. The theory is coming up with a syntax free language. Can you? On Apr 21, 2013 12:00 AM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: How is that a theory? Sounds like a design

Re: [fonc] Theory vs practice [syntax]

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
Looking for systems like this I found app-inventor activity starter on my phone. Has anyone tried this? On Apr 21, 2013 12:14 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I believe the key to this is to create domain widgets. I am not sure if this needs to be something like etoys, maybe

[fonc] Use case for graphical problem oriented widgets (POW, DSW)

2013-04-20 Thread John Carlson
this by demonstration? How about excel? With a dynamic collection? What will work on android jelly bean? I'm away from my desktop right now. On Apr 21, 2013 12:22 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Looking for systems like this I found app-inventor activity starter on my phone. Has anyone tried

Re: [fonc] Use case for graphical problem oriented widgets (POW, DSW)

2013-04-21 Thread John Carlson
Carlson yottz...@gmail.com: If you want a more complex use case, create a loop 10 times around the collection add loop to insert a calculator into the collection. On Apr 21, 2013 12:48 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Here's a semipractical use case: add 1 to the display in each

Re: [fonc] Universal language and system programming

2013-04-22 Thread John Carlson
, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.com wrote: John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com writes: If there truly is a universal language, is it a systems language? A logic language can describe hardware. What about things like pointers? Have they come up with self-referential logic? On Apr

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
One such test automation system is Sikuli, which uses images and image recognition as key components. To implement the image as 1D text seems rather foolhardy. On Jul 20, 2013 4:09 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I think one thing that has succeeded is macro editors. You can make

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
Another program which has worked well in dual text/graphic mode has been dreamweaver. Yes I understand it may not do all the behavior you want. However it doesn't stop you from adding that behavior. On Jul 20, 2013 4:13 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: One such test automation system

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
. On Jul 20, 2013 4:20 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Another program which has worked well in dual text/graphic mode has been dreamweaver. Yes I understand it may not do all the behavior you want. However it doesn't stop you from adding that behavior. On Jul 20, 2013 4:13 PM, John

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-20 Thread John Carlson
Don't forget to engage the right side of your brain and the corpus callosum. On Jul 20, 2013 11:22 AM, frank fr...@frankhirsch.net wrote: On 07/20/2013 04:21 PM, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: 3) Get rid of established but unnatural ways of manipulating data. Most importantly, get rid of flat

Re: [fonc] Flat text and 1D syntax considered harmful

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
The structures you need when programming behavior are lists of operations, something like lisp's cond with parameters, and the ability to refer to a cond from anywhere in the program (recursion, procedure call). Everything else is icing on the cake. ___

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
You would have to create a JSON object which would have key (identifier), value pairs. On Jul 21, 2013 3:22 PM, James McCartney asy...@gmail.com wrote: I thought about this briefly. One issue is how to distinguish literal strings from identifiers. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, John

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
is how to distinguish literal strings from identifiers. On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I've been thinking about creating a macro language written in JSON that operates on JSON structures. Has someone done similar work? Should I just create

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
Or numbers for pointers... On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I think what would be more difficult would be identifying what is persistent and what is runtime values. Also, JSON doesn't contain pointers, so one would have to use strings for pointers. On Jul 21

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
What makes this important is whether your running in stateless or stateful mode. If you only run the macro once no big deal. If you try to run on a server, you may find that you need to reset items like cursors to their original values. On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-21 Thread John Carlson
that then you might as well go *all* the way and re-invent half of Common Lisp :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule Alan Moore On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:28 AM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Hmm. I've been thinking about creating a macro language written in JSON

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-22 Thread John Carlson
), and whatever values are left blank (eg: album: []) gets populated with results. It has the littany of standard database query features as well, like ordering and limits and ranges and whatnot: http://mql.freebaseapps.com Hope this helps! -- Chris On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 4:45 PM, John Carlson

Re: [fonc] Macros, JSON

2013-07-22 Thread John Carlson
and ranges and whatnot: http://mql.freebaseapps.com Hope this helps! -- Chris On Sun, Jul 21, 2013 at 4:45 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: Or numbers for pointers... On Jul 21, 2013 3:43 PM, John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com wrote: I think what would be more difficult would

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