Re: [gentoo-user] WHAT IS Gentoo architecture for Pentium4 Prescott-2M
Statux, Thanks! === On Monday 18 December 2006 02:44, Statux wrote: === ... If you want to use EM64T, it's amd64 and -march=nocona in the CFLAGS. But If I don't want to use EMT64 but have CPU with EM64T (say, it is Pentium D) - am I forced to use 'amd64' artch? Or - can I use 'x86' with such 64-bit CPU? - all will work as normal 32-bit system, when '-march=prescott' is selected. Is it so? And as for, say, Pentium D 925, it has 'Presler' cores rather 'Prescott-2M' for Pentium4 630. Sorry for these question - I have tried to dig in the problem, but all silently suppose I must already know something :-) Andrew -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] WHAT IS Gentoo architecture for Pentium4 Prescott-2M
On Monday 18 December 2006 09:58, Andrew Gaydenko wrote: Statux, Thanks! === On Monday 18 December 2006 02:44, Statux wrote: === ... If you want to use EM64T, it's amd64 and -march=nocona in the CFLAGS. But If I don't want to use EMT64 but have CPU with EM64T (say, it is Pentium D) - am I forced to use 'amd64' artch? Or - can I use 'x86' with such 64-bit CPU? - all will work as normal 32-bit system, when '-march=prescott' is selected. Is it so? And as for, say, Pentium D 925, it has 'Presler' cores rather 'Prescott-2M' for Pentium4 630. em64t and amd64 are the same thing. Essentially, AMD came out with a 64 bit instruction set for their chips. After a few years market forces caused Intel to implement the same instruction set for their chips, and Intell called this em64t. The point being, AMD 64 bit code runs on Intel non-Itanium 64 bit chips just fine, the same way that AMD 32 bit chips execute Intel 32 bit code just fine. There are some small differences in these two architectures, but these differences are accounted for in other places and you don't have to concern yourself with them. alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] vmware server problem
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 23:48:37 -0700, Richard Fish wrote: Since .config contains # CONFIG_BRIDGE is not set I do believe I know the cause of _this_ problem. Just to be sure, my next (newbie) question is Is bridged networking the the right option to choose? I'm not sure...I don't have that set, but also I don't use bridged networking in vmware. I used bridged networking in VMware and don't have this kernel option. You are only bridging within VMware, between the guest and host OSes, so the kernel option is not needed. -- Neil Bothwick There are two standards for anything... One for the U.S. and one for the rest of the world. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox, flash player, and youTube
On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:57:05 -0800
Kevin O'Gorman wrote:
I'm up-to-date on stable ebuilds.
I've tried to view a cute youTube Code Monkey video, but get the
complaint my flash Player plugin is obsolete (or I'm blocking
Javascript, which is false). It's
at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lLRBiEBRAc
Here's some code for downloading youtube videos:
#!/usr/bin/perl
$base=http://videodownloader.net/get/?url=;;
if ($#ARGV==-1) {
print Usage: u2b.pl \[youtube-url-here]\\n;
exit(1);
}
$u2burl=$ARGV[0];
print Fetching downloading url...\n\n;
$contents=`curl -s '$base/$u2burl'`;
$contents=~s/\n//;
$contents=~/a href=http:\/\/youtube.com\/get_video\?(.*)/;
$contents=substr($1,0,55);
print Found: '$contents'\n\n;
system(wget -c 'http://youtube.com/get_video?$contents');
print \nAnd now...run mplayer!\n;
PS: I don't have the author's name, so sorry if you find this without
any note about you :-)
Also, you could download Ook? Video Ook! Firefox's extension.
HTH
--
Arnau Bria
http://blog.emergetux.net
Wiggum: Dispara a las ruedas Lou.
Lou: eee, es un tanque jefe.
Wiggum: Me tienes hartito con todas tus excusas.
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ATI 1900 ati drivers
Hi, for starters: what do your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log look like? What version of ati-drivers do you use? Have you tried another version? -Roman Hello, I first set the card up using the radeon open source drivers. The sceen clarity was not very good. The AMD64 system is find under XP, so the monitor and card function properly. I next tried the ati-binaries, trying what was suggested in several web pages. When I run startx, the screen just goes black. When I try to rund fglrxinfo (without x started up) I get: Error: unable to open display :0 Here are the wikis I found: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/ati-faq.xml http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_ATI_Drivers http://odin.prohosting.com/wedge01/gentoo-radeon-faq.html#4_nodevice http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon?action=highlightvalue=CategoryHardwareChipset Any ideas? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] vmware server problem
On Monday 18 December 2006 06:34, David Relson wrote: Running insmod for vmmon and vmnet gets them installed and output from /etc/init.d/vmware start indicated success. However running .../vmware status immediately afterwards says vmware has stopped. Looking at dmesg I suspect the following is the key: vmware-start: Bridged networking on /dev/vmnet0 failed I've had similar weird problems like this myself. I use vmware-workstation but afaik the modules and underlying code is the same as -server. Causes I have found are: original kernel and new vmware-modules compiled with different gcc versions A LOCALVERSION was set in the kernel .config but modules were built without it - caused by copying a 2.6.17-x .config over to 2.6.18 source dir and not noticing this value was set Not applying the vmware-any-any-xxx patch (the ebuild should have taken care of this for you) If all else fails, you might have to run /etc/vmware/init.d/vmware by hand and see where it is failing. As Neil mentioned, the bridged networking in vmware has nothing to do with the host kernel. Try set up your vm to use NATing and see if you can persuade vmware to run that way. If so, this will be a further clue as to the underlying cause. Is the config of your old and new kernel different in any relevant way? Perhaps you should post the output of diff -u old kernel config new kernel config especially the networking options alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: CUPS finds printer disconnected.
Neil Bothwick wrote What does ls -l /dev/usb/lp0 show? Answer: ls: /dev/usb/lp0: No such file or directory Hmm! Well done, Neil. Checked in the /dev/ directory and sure enough, there is no /dev/usb but there is /dev/bus/usb/ Tried ls /dev/bus/usb/lp0 and /dev/bus/usb/004/lp0 all with the same result. Not sure where to go from here, but it looks either as though CUPS is assuming an invalid directory structure, or doesn't know how to work with udev. Any further thoughts? Carl Adams. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] using stage4 conveniently
Hello, I'm using Reto Glauser's mkstage4 script for backup. Reading in the 'Small Footprint Gentoo USB HOWTO' about a stage4 made me ask myself: Is it possible to quickly/comfortably put the backup stage4 on a USB Stick, such that it behaves just like the same system just backed up while the primary HDD is completely passed by? If there is no such tool accomplishing this, there certainly should be, as a way to - have a running system a short time after a HD crash - completely ditch those power hungry HD drives - ... your idea here ... Many thanks for your comments. Regards ralf -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Squirrelmail in a new slot?
I have squirrelmail-1.4.8 installed and working on my server, and portage wants to install 1.4.9a in a new slot. How will the slots work in this context? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Squirrelmail in a new slot?
Grant wrote: I have squirrelmail-1.4.8 installed and working on my server, and portage wants to install 1.4.9a in a new slot. How will the slots work in this context? - Grant Hi, Just checked and don't see any SLOTS in squirrelmail, even a SLOT var. HTH.Rumen smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Squirrelmail in a new slot?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 06:44:45 -0800, Grant wrote: I have squirrelmail-1.4.8 installed and working on my server, and portage wants to install 1.4.9a in a new slot. How will the slots work in this context? Do you have the vhosts USE flag set? If so, after emerging the new version you'll have to use webapp-config to update it on each (virtual) host running it. When all are updated ot the later version (webapp-config --list-unused-installs will show you) you can emerge --prune the older instances. -- Neil Bothwick Aw, mom, you act like I'm not even wearing a bungee cord! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: ATI 1900 ati drivers
Roman Zilka rzilka at gvid.cz writes: for starters: what do your /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log look like? What version of ati-drivers do you use? Have you tried another version? Hello Roman, The last few lines of the log file: (II) Setting vga for screen 0. (II) fglrx(0): === [atiddxPreInit] === begin, [s] (II) Loading sub module vgahw (II) LoadModule: vgahw (II) Loading /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/libvgahw.so (II) Module vgahw: vendor=X.Org Foundation compiled for 7.1.1, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 1.0 (II) fglrx(0): PCI bus 1 card 0 func 0 (EE) fglrx(0): Given depth (16) is not supported by fglrx driver (EE) fglrx(0): PreInitVisual failed SetVBEMode failed (EE) fglrx(0): PreInit failed (II) fglrx(0): === [atiddxPreInit] === end Backtrace: 0: X(xf86SigHandler+0x71) [0x48bea1] 1: /lib/libc.so.6 [0x2b3d616d0720] 2: /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so(atiddxDriverEntPriv+0xf) [0x2b3d6304d 84f] 3: /usr/lib64/xorg/modules/drivers/fglrx_drv.so(atiddxFreeScreen+0x2b) [0x2b3d63052b8 b] 4: X(xf86DeleteScreen+0x5b) [0x49f2ab] 5: X(InitOutput+0xa15) [0x45f7c5] 6: X(main+0x26f) [0x430e5f] 7: /lib/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xf4) [0x2b3d616be134] 8: X(FontFileCompleteXLFD+0xa1) [0x430339] Fatal server error: Caught signal 11. Server aborting Here's the latest xorg.conf Section ServerLayout Identifier X.org Configured Screen 0 Screen0 0 0 InputDeviceMouse0 CorePointer InputDeviceKeyboard0 CoreKeyboard EndSection Section Files FontPath /usr/share/fonts/misc/ FontPath /usr/share/fonts/TTF/ FontPath /usr/share/fonts/OTF FontPath /usr/share/fonts/Type1/ FontPath /usr/share/fonts/CID/ FontPath /usr/share/fonts/100dpi/ FontPath /usr/share/fonts/75dpi/ EndSection Section Module Load glx Load extmod Load xtrap Load record Load dbe Load dri Load freetype Load type1 # James addes these Loadddc Loadvbe LoadGLcore Loadbitmap EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Keyboard0 Driver kbd EndSection Section InputDevice Identifier Mouse0 Driver mouse # Option Protocol auto Option Protocol IMPS/2 # Option Device /dev/mouse Option Device /dev/misc/psaux Option ZAxisMapping 4 5 6 7 EndSection Section Monitor Identifier Monitor0 VendorName Monitor Vendor ModelNameMonitor Model #james addes these lines: #HorizSync28.0 - 96.0 HorizSync31.0 - 80.0 #VertRefresh 50.0 - 75.0 VertRefresh 60.0 - 75.0 EndSection Section Device ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: i: integer, f: float, bool: True/False, ### string: String, freq: f Hz/kHz/MHz ### [arg]: arg optional #Option ShadowFB # [bool] #Option DefaultRefresh# [bool] #Option ModeSetClearScreen# [bool] Identifier Card0 Driver fglrx VendorName ATI Technologies Inc BoardName Unknown Board BusID PCI:1:0:0 EndSection Section Screen Identifier Screen0 Device Card0 MonitorMonitor0 DefaultColorDepth 16 SubSection Display Depth 1 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 4 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 8 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 15 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 16 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 24 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 32 Modes 1680x1050 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section dri Group video Mode 0666 EndSection James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Squirrelmail in a new slot?
On 12/18/06, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 06:44:45 -0800, Grant wrote: I have squirrelmail-1.4.8 installed and working on my server, and portage wants to install 1.4.9a in a new slot. How will the slots work in this context? Do you have the vhosts USE flag set? If so, after emerging the new version you'll have to use webapp-config to update it on each (virtual) host running it. When all are updated ot the later version (webapp-config --list-unused-installs will show you) you can emerge --prune the older instances. I'm not using the vhosts USE flag. I'm getting this: [ebuild NS ] mail-client/squirrelmail-1.4.9a USE=crypt filter mysql spell ssl -ldap -nls -postgres -vhosts How does this work in my case? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 20:17, Grant wrote: I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) -- Mrugesh Karnik GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8 Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net pgpmSykqzP83h.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Working: Re: ATI 1900 ati drivers
Roman Zilka rzilka at gvid.cz writes: Hello Roman, I changed the default color depth from 16 to 24; xorg now works. Bzflag will not run, but, with all of the changes, I'm just going to recompile bzflag and see what that does. James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) bugs.gentoo.org :) Do you think Gentoo is waning? Is Debian the only similar distro out there? - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 20:17, Grant wrote: I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) Another question would be, how many of us have made healthy progress in our general knowledge of Linux all thanks to the gentoo user guides/howto(s) and the time spent installing gentoo on our servers? I really benefited from the cookbook approach that the user manual takes. It gently opened my eyes to many lower level processes that were always shielded from my eyes on many other distro's that I have used. For this reason Gentoo will always hold a special place in my heart. :o) However, I believe that gentoo's health is completely dependent on the number of talented developers that devote much of their personal time refining and debugging portage and it vast software tree. IMHO, if we would like to see Gentoo maintain healthy growth, more of us happy less experienced users should find ways to assisting the core developers by relieving them from the more mundane redementry tasks. I am sure that the portage tree is already large enough that it is a daunting challenge for the limited number of developers to maintain it and keep it upto date with new software releases. Next time we see a call for assistance in the weekly news letter, we would do well to spend a few hours each week answering that call. Well that's my two cents anyway. Regards, Richard Broersma Jr. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy? - possibly OT, but not really
I was wondering about that, how would you volunteer to assist with porting new software to the portage tree? I see that some software packages I would like to install (RT, dotProject) are masked. So I was wondering if anybody needed some assistance maintaining the ports, or if maybe/probably my Gentoo skill set if not up to snuff? Ennis McCaffrey -Original Message- From: Richard Broersma Jr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:07 PM To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy? On Monday 18 December 2006 20:17, Grant wrote: I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) Another question would be, how many of us have made healthy progress in our general knowledge of Linux all thanks to the gentoo user guides/howto(s) and the time spent installing gentoo on our servers? I really benefited from the cookbook approach that the user manual takes. It gently opened my eyes to many lower level processes that were always shielded from my eyes on many other distro's that I have used. For this reason Gentoo will always hold a special place in my heart. :o) However, I believe that gentoo's health is completely dependent on the number of talented developers that devote much of their personal time refining and debugging portage and it vast software tree. IMHO, if we would like to see Gentoo maintain healthy growth, more of us happy less experienced users should find ways to assisting the core developers by relieving them from the more mundane redementry tasks. I am sure that the portage tree is already large enough that it is a daunting challenge for the limited number of developers to maintain it and keep it upto date with new software releases. Next time we see a call for assistance in the weekly news letter, we would do well to spend a few hours each week answering that call. Well that's my two cents anyway. Regards, Richard Broersma Jr. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list - This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 15:47, Grant wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy? - possibly OT, but not really
I was wondering about that, how would you volunteer to assist with porting new software to the portage tree? I see that some software packages I would like to install (RT, dotProject) are masked. So I was wondering if anybody needed some assistance maintaining the ports, or if maybe/probably my Gentoo skill set if not up to snuff? Here is the link on the gentoo homepage that calls for support: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/ Regards, Richard Broersma Jr. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 19:17, Danyelle Gragsone wrote: I just stepped back into gentoo after a long too long jump to ubuntu. I had no time to do all the tinkering of things that is required in gentoo sometimes. My ability to do things deminished greatly!. I am back in the gentoo seat to remember long lost skills. I totally did not like the livecd install. I went back to the universal install cd's and all is well. I am a qa'r so you know what my next test will be ;). I think like many distro's people tend to flock to new or new to them distros to see what its like. Gentoo is one of the distros I learned the most with as with I am sure many of its other users. Gentoo still by far ( to me ) has the best documentation and user help out! LOVE LIVE GENTOO! There will always be a current flavour-of-the-moment distro. A few years ago it was Red Hat 9, then Debian had a turn, then Gentoo hit the headlines. A large part of the hype was ricers who thought that having gcc unroll every loop would somehow give spectacular performance increases. They were wrong and - thank god - most of them have left, leaving us sane folks behind. The current flavour seems to be Ubuntu, but that is waning too. They hit a few major teething problems with edgy and feisty like livecds that didn't work right and binary drivers. Who knows what will be next to be popular - Slackware? Debian? These things go up and down, and with a group as large and diverse as a distro, you get growing pains and procedures/personnel/cultures changes. But gentoo will always be here and I recommend you not to read too much into the daily ups and downs. Besides, like another poster said, if gentoo is your favourite distro and the maintainers need a hand, what's stopping any of us from becoming devs ourselves? alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 15:47, Grant wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. Once again I'll refer to the blog [1] of kloeri, Lead of the Gentoo Developer Relations project (devrel) and a member of the Gentoo Council. Also [2] clearly shows that Gentoo is quite active in terms of daily commits... On Monday 18 December 2006 17:36, Grant wrote: I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) bugs.gentoo.org :) Pfft. bugs.gentoo.org will be replaced by what is now bugstest.gentoo.org hopefully in the following weekend. Surely before the end of this year.. I could dig out a number of references to back that up but I won't bother given how you haven't backed up any part of your claims in this thread... Do you think Gentoo is waning? Just because a project isn't moving as fast or as focused as some people might want it to doesn't mean it's declining! Is Debian the only similar distro out there? I would say that it is a lot easier to list the similarities than the differences between Debian and Gentoo. Debian really isn't that similar... [1] http://kloeri.livejournal.com/2006/06/17/ [2] http://cia.navi.cx/ -- Bo Andresen pgpGjpEUGUDjs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. Once again I'll refer to the blog [1] of kloeri, Lead of the Gentoo Developer Relations project (devrel) and a member of the Gentoo Council. Also [2] clearly shows that Gentoo is quite active in terms of daily commits... Very good to see that. I personally still love Gentoo. What's the problem then? :) bugs.gentoo.org :) Pfft. bugs.gentoo.org will be replaced by what is now bugstest.gentoo.org hopefully in the following weekend. Surely before the end of this year.. I could dig out a number of references to back that up but I won't bother given how you haven't backed up any part of your claims in this thread... What claims? Do you think Gentoo is waning? Just because a project isn't moving as fast or as focused as some people might want it to doesn't mean it's declining! It means the rate of growth is declining. Is Debian the only similar distro out there? I would say that it is a lot easier to list the similarities than the differences between Debian and Gentoo. Debian really isn't that similar... [1] http://kloeri.livejournal.com/2006/06/17/ [2] http://cia.navi.cx/ - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I just stepped back into gentoo after a long too long jump to ubuntu. I had no time to do all the tinkering of things that is required in gentoo sometimes. My ability to do things deminished greatly!. I am back in the gentoo seat to remember long lost skills. I totally did not like the livecd install. I went back to the universal install cd's and all is well. I am a qa'r so you know what my next test will be ;). I think like many distro's people tend to flock to new or new to them distros to see what its like. Gentoo is one of the distros I learned the most with as with I am sure many of its other users. Gentoo still by far ( to me ) has the best documentation and user help out! LOVE LIVE GENTOO! There will always be a current flavour-of-the-moment distro. A few years ago it was Red Hat 9, then Debian had a turn, then Gentoo hit the headlines. A large part of the hype was ricers who thought that having gcc unroll every loop would somehow give spectacular performance increases. They were wrong and - thank god - most of them have left, leaving us sane folks behind. The current flavour seems to be Ubuntu, but that is waning too. They hit a few major teething problems with edgy and feisty like livecds that didn't work right and binary drivers. Who knows what will be next to be popular - Slackware? Debian? These things go up and down, and with a group as large and diverse as a distro, you get growing pains and procedures/personnel/cultures changes. But gentoo will always be here and I recommend you not to read too much into the daily ups and downs. Besides, like another poster said, if gentoo is your favourite distro and the maintainers need a hand, what's stopping any of us from becoming devs ourselves? Thanks for everyone's input thus far. I've been meaning to build and maintain an ebuild for interchange (icdevgroup.org) for a while now. I've never built an ebuild before, my programming skills are limited, and at least two other developers have attempted and given up on an interchange ebuild, but I'm making that my New Year's resolution. Gentoo literally can't die without something better to replace it. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Popular migration from one distro to the next sends a very important signal to any distro that wants to grow. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Tuesday 19 December 2006 00:24, Grant wrote: I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Popular migration from one distro to the next sends a very important signal to any distro that wants to grow. Methinks, Gentoo should stay focused. I don't think the goal of Gentoo was to become a Desktop Distro for the people migrating from M$ land. I don't care about ease of use. The current situation is great for me. I DO want the flexibility and the control. Quality matters, not the quantity. I'm not against ease of use. Its always welcome. I guess its up to the devs and the Council to decide on what Gentoo wants to be and for whom. Trying to cater too many different categories of people is shooting yourself in the foot. -- Mrugesh Karnik GPG Key 0xBA6F1DA8 Public key on http://wwwkeys.pgp.net pgpsdKD9aiW1j.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On 12/18/06, Grant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. Well, I must say not all users really add to the distro in any way... I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Ubuntu is popular because there were thousands of articles over the net and magazines making it sound like the Linux that anyone can use. It is true for MOST hardware/software combination, but once it fails (and it will, eventually, every OS does), an unprepared user would be just lost. A great number of users grant your distro fame and sponsors, but most of this users add nothing to the distro. Most don't even participate in discussions like this one, that's focused on making the distro better. C'mon, how many developers really watch their users mailing lists and answer like Gentoo devs do? I don't think easy-to-use makes a distro better. What makes it better is a good documentation (and Gentoo has the best) and users willing to go read a little before crying out that it doesn't work, adding stuff to the wikis and forums and helping each other. In my sincere opinion, Gentoo may have less users than other distros, but we have the best users around ;-) Popular migration from one distro to the next sends a very important signal to any distro that wants to grow. Well, IMHO it doesn't. -- Daniel da Veiga Computer Operator - RS - Brazil -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.1 GCM/IT/P/O d-? s:- a? C++$ UBLA++ P+ L++ E--- W+++$ N o+ K- w O M- V- PS PE Y PGP- t+ 5 X+++ R+* tv b+ DI+++ D+ G+ e h+ r+ y++ --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
+1 You have stealed my thoughts! All I can add, I'd want to Gentoo aim be a better Gentoo :-) === On Monday 18 December 2006 22:12, Mrugesh Karnik wrote: === ... I don't think the goal of Gentoo was to become a Desktop Distro for the people migrating from M$ land. I don't care about ease of use. The current situation is great for me. I DO want the flexibility and the control. Quality matters, not the quantity. ... -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT - Need driver for...
I had a new piece of hardware installed this morning, and I need to know what I need to modprobe/alter kernel config for to use the new hardware: 05:01.0 Communication controller: Motorola Wildcard X100P Subsystem: Motorola Unknown device Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 22 I/O ports at b800 [size=256] Memory at ff90 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. Well, I must say not all users really add to the distro in any way... Every user does add to the distro because they make it more popular, and, generally, a more popular distro will have more active developers than an unpopular distro. Active developers make the distro. For example, I submitted this bug about a mod_perl-2.0.3 version bump on 11-28-06, and there hasn't even been a reply yet: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157239 One way or another, this is a (big) problem of not enough active developers. Gentoo needs more users so it can get more active developers so we can get a better Gentoo and a continually up-to-date Gentoo. We very well may have to adapt to survive. - Grant -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA problems after UDEV-103 upgrade [SOLVED]
Hi Mark, Mark Knecht wrote: That appears to be a testing version of udev. Do you always run testing? As for the mixer message please try removing /etc/asound.state and then restarting Alsa. You will probably need to set mixer levels using alsamixer or whatever mixer is appropriate for this device. Wow, I cannot believe that it was that easy (after all I tried). Thank you very much. Now there is just a minor problem that my MIDI device is not detected correctly, but that's not that crucial. I O U a Br, Arend Good luck, Mark On 12/17/06, Arend von der Lieth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, After upgrading to udev-103 I had some problems with mouse and sound. While I was able to fix the first issue myself, I am now stuck in the sound problem: I followed the gentoo alsa guide, checked all settings in the kernel, even upgraded the kernel from 2.6.15 to 2.6.18 (hoping that this would help, but still no success). Now, I guess that it's a problem with missing device nodes (the directories snd/ or sound/ do not exist in /dev). When running alsaconf I get the following error message (which is the same during boot): Running modules-update... Loading driver... * Loading ALSA modules ... * Loading: snd-card-0 ...[ ok ] * Loading: snd-seq-oss ... [ ok ] * Loading: snd-pcm-oss ... [ ok ] * Loading: snd-emu10k1-synth ... [ ok ] * Loading: snd-seq-midi ... [ ok ] * Restoring Mixer Levels ... /usr/sbin/alsactl: load_state:1341: Cannot find soundcard '0'... * Errors while restoring defaults, ignoring[ ok ] Setting default volumes... amixer: Mixer attach default error: No such device cat /proc/asound/cards yields: 0 [Live ]: EMU10K1 - SBLive! Value [CT4780] SBLive! Value [CT4780] (rev.10, serial:0x80221102) at 0xece0, irq 201 lsmod | grep snd returns: snd_seq_midi8864 0 snd_emu10k1_synth 7552 0 snd_emux_synth 33664 1 snd_emu10k1_synth snd_seq_virmidi 6912 1 snd_emux_synth snd_seq_midi_emul 6912 1 snd_emux_synth snd_pcm_oss42784 0 snd_mixer_oss 16896 1 snd_pcm_oss snd_seq_dummy 3972 0 snd_seq_oss31872 0 snd_seq_midi_event 7168 3 snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_seq_oss snd_seq47568 9 snd_seq_midi,snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi, snd_seq_midi_emul,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss, snd_seq_midi_event snd_emu10k1 118592 1 snd_emu10k1_synth snd_rawmidi23840 3 snd_seq_midi,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_emu10k1 snd_ac97_codec 92320 1 snd_emu10k1 snd_ac97_bus2432 1 snd_ac97_codec snd_pcm74248 3 snd_pcm_oss,snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec snd_seq_device 8332 8 snd_seq_midi,snd_emu10k1_synth, snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_dummy,snd_seq_oss, snd_seq,snd_emu10k1,snd_rawmidi snd_timer 22020 3 snd_seq,snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm snd_page_alloc 10376 2 snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm snd_util_mem4992 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 snd_hwdep 9348 2 snd_emux_synth,snd_emu10k1 snd49636 13 snd_emux_synth,snd_seq_virmidi,snd_pcm_oss, snd_mixer_oss,snd_seq_oss,snd_seq,snd_emu10k1, snd_rawmidi,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm, snd_seq_device,snd_timer,snd_hwdep soundcore 9568 1 snd Can anybody point me to the right direction where I should look at? Thanks in advance, Arend -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 11:58:26AM -0800, Grant wrote: Every user does add to the distro because they make it more popular, and, generally, a more popular distro will have more active developers than an unpopular distro. Active developers make the distro. For example, I submitted this bug about a mod_perl-2.0.3 version bump on 11-28-06, and there hasn't even been a reply yet: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=157239 One way or another, this is a (big) problem of not enough active developers. Gentoo needs more users so it can get more active developers so we can get a better Gentoo and a continually up-to-date Gentoo. We very well may have to adapt to survive. Well if it means anything... I think we should modify portage to allow for a decentralized distribution. I'd like to see the herd like groupings to be the normal method of operation with pockets of users informally banding together into their own herds. This of course would be facilitated by software. If you think about it, most of the Gentoo infrastructure ideas could be replicated in an informal fashion. We'd always want the cathedral as a reference point but if it was destroyed tomorrow I'd like things to continue running. As for your bug, I guess I would have liked to have typed, $ equery comments mod_perl and seen information about that bug you posted. If I knew something about the problem I'd type $ equery bug mod_perl comment I'm having this same issue. Issue was solved by \ X. Pushed modified ebuild into the University Computer Science System \ Administrators Herd and the WebFarm Herd. Brandon -- Brandon Edens [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.brandonedens.org key 0x55438F48 pgp47ze2Eb13d.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
061219 Mrugesh Karnik wrote: On Tuesday 19 December 2006 00:24, Grant wrote: It seems like the best thing for Gentoo is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers and an increased rate of growth for the software. Methinks, Gentoo should stay focused. I don't think the goal of Gentoo was to become a Desktop Distro for the people migrating from M$ land. I don't care about ease of use. I DO want the flexibility and the control. Quality matters, not the quantity. Gentoo is for fairly experienced Linux users who want real control are prepared to put a bit of time into maintaining their box(es). There will always be people who try it find it too time-consuming or are simply not experienced enough to handle its challenges. There is no other distro which offers anything like what Gentoo offers until there is, Gentoo will remain alive fairly healthy. BTW 'Distrowatch' has its annual review today with a rather snide report on Gentoo as no longer being fashionable (grin). -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Tuesday 19 December 2006 00:24, Grant wrote: It seems like the best thing for Gentoo is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers and an increased rate of growth for the software. Methinks, Gentoo should stay focused. I don't think the goal of Gentoo was to become a Desktop Distro for the people migrating from M$ land. I don't care about ease of use. I DO want the flexibility and the control. Quality matters, not the quantity. On Monday 18 December 2006 21:29, Philip Webb wrote: Gentoo is for fairly experienced Linux users who want real control are prepared to put a bit of time into maintaining their box(es). There will always be people who try it find it too time-consuming or are simply not experienced enough to handle its challenges. People who're new to Linux, especially naturally unexperienced teens will have a rough time if they try gentoo linux. Even if they learn fast.. especially the fact that you need a whole day to have a running installation kills motivation. I find Sabayon linux very useful, it offers a complete pre-installation, you can modify it afterwards. The perfect os with a rapid beginning. :-) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ALSA problems after UDEV-103 upgrade [SOLVED]
On 12/18/06, Arend von der Lieth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, Mark Knecht wrote: That appears to be a testing version of udev. Do you always run testing? As for the mixer message please try removing /etc/asound.state and then restarting Alsa. You will probably need to set mixer levels using alsamixer or whatever mixer is appropriate for this device. Wow, I cannot believe that it was that easy (after all I tried). Thank you very much. you are very welcome! Now there is just a minor problem that my MIDI device is not detected correctly, but that's not that crucial. I'm not much help with MIDI. I don't like Linux MIDI so I still do all of that in Windows. Maybe one day I O U a Br, I accept. Next time I'm in Germany or you're in the SF Bay Area we must get together. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 19:54, Grant wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. this kind of users never turn into devs. This kind of users are writing 'good bye postings' in the forum about how much gentoo sucks and that INSERTNAMEHERE is much better. I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. all the hype about it (in ubuntus case, the hype even started before it was released, thanks to good marketing). There is something called 'target audience'. Do you want to target the noobs? The 'I don't want to read anything' crowd? At the beginning, there was a big 'gentoo is for advanced users type' sign on the front page. If you dumb gentoo down to make it idiot-proof only idiots will use it. It is a good sign, that people from other distros are asking questions in the gentoo forums, because they expect good answers there. It is also a known fact, that ubuntus forums are very big - but good answers are rare. When ubuntu f*ed up a X update sometime ago, ou had thousands of helpless users. Do you really want that kind of people in gentoo? I don't. They don't turn in admins or mods, they don't become devs, they whine a lot and because of them, choices are removed and the distro dumbed down. Linux is not windows - and gentoo is not ubuntu, or linspire. If someone wants an easy-to-use Iamstupidandwanttostaythatway distro, there are already douzends of them. No need to turn gentoo in another one. Popular migration from one distro to the next sends a very important signal to any distro that wants to grow. nope. It is just the wave of people who want to use the cool-distro-of-the-day. This people are like locusts. They wander from distro to distro. If something new pops up, they go there and stay a while before they 'discover' the next cool one and go there. And if you try to adapt to them, you will loose badly. Debian did not adapt to the locusts, and they are a fine, healthy distro. Redhat did not adapt to them, mandriva tried and got bitten. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
Roman Naumann wrote: I find Sabayon linux very useful, it offers a complete pre-installation, you can modify it afterwards. The perfect os with a rapid beginning. :-) Sabayon creates such a horribly broken system it takes hours for an experienced Gentoo user to sort out a simple emerge -uavD world. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Incidentally, Kororaa is just as bad and I didn't find VLOS much, if any, better. Neil -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Dual Layer burn program
On Sunday 17 December 2006 14:28, Luigi Pinna wrote: gpgkeys: HTTP fetch error 6: Couldn't resolve host 'subkeys.pgp.net' Hi! How can I burn a 8.5 GByte iso? I tried with k3b and I receive an error and growisofs failed at 99.9% with input/output error. I searched in portage but I didn't find a program with dual layer support. Nero didn't work (trial version already expired). If you follow an earlier thread of mine you may conclude (like I did) that doudle layer +R and dual layer -R are very media sensitive. Some brands of DVDs always work, some rarely work and some never work depending on the make of your DVD writer. Other than googling for other user's experience with particular media that have the same hardware like yours and perhaps looking at the OEM recommendations, I don't know what to suggest -- Regards, Mick pgpGNbdD0muDf.pgp Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Hotel WiFi does not like my Gentoo
This is what I am getting: = # iwconfig eth0 no wireless extensions. lono wireless extensions. dummy0no wireless extensions. wmaster0 IEEE 802.11g Frequency:2.437 GHz RTS thr:off Fragment thr=2346 B wlan0 IEEE 802.11g ESSID:The Cairngorm Hotel Mode:Managed Frequency:2.437 GHz Access Point: 00:0C:20:03:3B:C5 RTS thr:off Fragment thr=2346 B Encryption key:off Link Quality:0 Signal level:0 Noise level:0 Rx invalid nwid:0 Rx invalid crypt:0 Rx invalid frag:0 Tx excessive retries:0 Invalid misc:0 Missed beacon:0 # ifconfig wlan0 wlan0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr 00:11:50:18:55:3F UP NOTRAILERS RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1 RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 TX packets:8 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:4864 (4.7 Kb) Base address:0x1000 # iwlist wlan0 scan wlan0 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 00:0C:20:03:3B:C5 ESSID:The Cairngorm Hotel Mode:Master Frequency:2.437 GHz Encryption key:off Extra:tsf=0004ed7ab5fa = Don't be fooled by the Link Quality:0 Signal level:0 readings. In another hotel up the road I got 30/100 link quality, and got an IP address, but then I couldn't connect to the Internet. On the last hotel (with the readings quoted above) I can't for the life of me get an IP address. What am I doing wrong here? BTW this is what tcpdump reveals: = # tcpdump -i wlan0 tcpdump: WARNING: wlan0: no IPv4 address assigned tcpdump: verbose output suppressed, use -v or -vv for full protocol decode listening on wlan0, link-type EN10MB (Ethernet), capture size 68 bytes 21:39:46.756967 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:39:50.768217 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:39:58.772755 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:40:14.845725 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:40:46.747756 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:40:50.931981 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:40:59.008510 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] 21:41:15.013484 IP 0.0.0.0.bootpc 255.255.255.255.bootps: BOOTP/DHCP, Request [|bootp] tcpdump: pcap_loop: recvfrom: Network is down 8 packets captured 16 packets received by filter 0 packets dropped by kernel = -- Regards, Mick pgpI1aJooV4Zp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: CUPS finds printer disconnected.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 20:49:56 +1000, Carl Adams wrote: What does ls -l /dev/usb/lp0 show? ls: /dev/usb/lp0: No such file or directory Run tail -f /var/log/messages and connect the printer. the output should tell you where the printer appears, then you can change the CUPS config accordingly. -- Neil Bothwick Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody...! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 15:26:07 -0500, Brandon Edens wrote: As for your bug, I guess I would have liked to have typed, $ equery comments mod_perl and seen information about that bug you posted. emerge gentoo-bugger bugger --keyword mod_perl bugger --show 157239 -- Neil Bothwick With 5 billion people on earth chances are slim it will ever be *your* day. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 10:54:06AM -0800, Grant wrote: I've caught a whiff or two lately that Gentoo is declining in popularity amongst users and developers. Is it all in my head? I personally still love Gentoo. there are always several phases in the life of a distri. Beginning, when it becomes 'cool' and a sudden surge in users, some time of high popularity, a decline, and at the end, only the users who are really 'the right ones' for that kind of distri are left. So the 'always using the cool thing' users are gone and the 'we are using what the cool guys were using' crowd is leaving now. So what? Are they important? No. At some point ubuntu will suffer the same. And then the next cool distro de jour. Some decline in user interest is normal - and a healthy process. Because it removes the 'I use it because it is cool' and 'I use it because everybody else uses it' type of users. I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Popular migration from one distro to the next sends a very important signal to any distro that wants to grow. I don't think our primary goal should be growth (in number of users / developers). In fact I think there's a lot of issues that're much more important to Gentoo. Gentoo started with the stated goal of providing a metadistribution. This basically means providing the best possible foundation for others to tinker with any way they like. Be it building embedded applications, making the next 'Ubuntu' or whatever. To me the flexibility that Gentoo provides is one of the most important things. Another thing that I think should go before popularity is quality. What good is a distribution if it doesn't work half the time no matter how many users it has? In short, staying focused on Gentoos original goals and not getting sidetracked by some meassure of popularity is a very good thing in my opinion. And for those who think Gentoo is declining I can only say that's definitely not what I'm seeing as lead of developer relations and recruiters. There's always some developers leaving but we have a lot more developers joining us. In the last 3 years that I've been a Gentoo developer we've grown from ~80 developers to 330+ developers. That's a yearly growth of 60% or more. Now, whether those 60% is the right people.. is another matter altogether :) Regards, Bryan Østergaard -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 22:07:54 +0100, Roman Naumann wrote: People who're new to Linux, especially naturally unexperienced teens will have a rough time if they try gentoo linux. Even if they learn fast.. especially the fact that you need a whole day to have a running installation kills motivation. A whole day? It hasn't been like that for a long time. I installed this laptop about 18 months ago, using a stage 3 tarball and a GRP CD. I went from blank disc to KDE desktop in a little over an hour. -- Neil Bothwick SCSI: System Can't See It signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:54:06 -0800, Grant wrote: I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. must mean? Why? The only thing more users must mean is more users. If you maintain the proportion of users-who-would-become-devs to always-users your point may have some validity, but the ratio always drops when a distro becomes popular. More users often means more work for the same number of devs, it can be counter-productive. I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Do we really need yet another easy to use distro? There are already more than enough of those. Gentoo is for those who want maximum control over their systems and are prepared to make the effort to achieve this. This is for a different type of user. Turn Gentoo into yet another easy-to-use distro and those people lose while those wanting ease of use gain very little. I really don't care if Gentoo is considered a minority distro, it is not, and hopefully never will be, a mass market product. -- Neil Bothwick When you finally buy enough memory, you will not have enough disk space. -- Murphy's Computer Laws n°3 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:58:26 -0800, Grant wrote: Every user does add to the distro because they make it more popular, and, generally, a more popular distro will have more active developers than an unpopular distro. It may, but you are confusing cause and effect. A distro with more developers should be a better distro, and should have more users. Active developers make the distro. For example, I submitted this bug about a mod_perl-2.0.3 version bump on 11-28-06, and there hasn't even been a reply yet: Gentoo helps those who help themselves. Did you try renaming the 2.0.2 ebuild yourself? If so, you should have reported this, along with the outcome. As for your second question, that could have been answered with eix mod_perl. -- Neil Bothwick Just don't give away the homeworld! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox, flash player, and youTube
On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 10:51 +0100, Arnau Bria wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:57:05 -0800 Kevin O'Gorman wrote: I'm up-to-date on stable ebuilds. I've tried to view a cute youTube Code Monkey video, but get the complaint my flash Player plugin is obsolete (or I'm blocking Javascript, which is false). It's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lLRBiEBRAc Here's some code for downloading youtube videos: or, you could just install the firefox add-on videodownloader from http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php and have a little icon in your status bar which, on a right click, will let you download any mp3, flash, wmv, avi, etc, etc, on the current web page. HTH! -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip around the Sun. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Nvidia + glxgears slower than before
Hi all, I have a strage problem, some month ago I bougth a new laptop (Core2duo 1,83 Ghz + Geforce 7600). The first thing I did was installing gentoo, and after X was finished I installed the nvidia-driver an run glxgears to see the difference between my old desktop and my new laptop. I got about 1.000 FPS and was happy. I continued installing the system and built some new kernels to get all the things working like wlan etc. some days later I run glxgears again and was shocked of the glxgears output: 31189 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6237.635 FPS 31163 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6232.600 FPS 31178 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6235.511 FPS since this time I never got more than 6400.000 FPS, I `ve tried to install newer versions of nvidia-driver and the nvidia-driver from the nvidia page but its not going over 6400.000 FPS. After some time I thougth maybe it didnt run faster the first time and I was remembering wrong but than I saw a forum entry from someone with the same notebook running fedoracore and he postet his putput of glxgears and got about 1.000 FPS. Has anyone any ideas what the problem could be??? I dont want to install gentoo again because everything else works fine. Thanks and Regards Jakob
Re: [gentoo-user] Hotel WiFi does not like my Gentoo
Mick wrote: # iwlist wlan0 scan wlan0 Scan completed : Cell 01 - Address: 00:0C:20:03:3B:C5 ESSID:The Cairngorm Hotel Mode:Master Frequency:2.437 GHz Encryption key:off Extra:tsf=0004ed7ab5fa Have you tried: # iwconfig wlan0 essid The Cairngorm Hotel # dhcpcd wlan0 ? Do you have Windows installed? Do you get an IP address on Windows? Regards, Norberto pgpr3f8TbKbt3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Nvidia + glxgears slower than before
On Tuesday, 19 December 2006 9:42, Jakob wrote: Hi all, I have a strage problem, some month ago I bougth a new laptop (Core2duo 1,83 Ghz + Geforce 7600). The first thing I did was installing gentoo, and after X was finished I installed the nvidia-driver an run glxgears to see the difference between my old desktop and my new laptop. I got about 1.000 FPS and was happy. I continued installing the system and built some new kernels to get all the things working like wlan etc. some days later I run glxgears again and was shocked of the glxgears output: 31189 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6237.635 FPS 31163 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6232.600 FPS 31178 frames in 5.0 seconds = 6235.511 FPS since this time I never got more than 6400.000 FPS, I `ve tried to install newer versions of nvidia-driver and the nvidia-driver from the nvidia page but its not going over 6400.000 FPS. After some time I thougth maybe it didnt run faster the first time and I was remembering wrong but than I saw a forum entry from someone with the same notebook running fedoracore and he postet his putput of glxgears and got about 1.000 FPS. Has anyone any ideas what the problem could be??? I dont want to install gentoo again because everything else works fine. Thanks and Regards Jakob The problem is that glxgears is not a benchmark. Run some real programs and if you have performance problems with those, then you have something to worry about. -- Raymond Lewis Rebbeck -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 22:27 +0100, Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Monday 18 December 2006 19:54, Grant wrote: I'm thinking this over a bit more, and it seems like the best thing for Gentoo (or any distro) is a lot of users. More users must mean more active developers, and more active developers must mean an increased rate of growth for the software. this kind of users never turn into devs. This kind of users are writing 'good bye postings' in the forum about how much gentoo sucks and that INSERTNAMEHERE is much better. /me searches the 'net for the INSERTNAMEHERE distro. Tell me more - I like the sound of this one, I hear it's really cool, and I'm thinking of leaving Gentoo... NOT... I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. all the hype about it (in ubuntus case, the hype even started before it was released, thanks to good marketing). There is something called 'target audience'. Do you want to target the noobs? no! I heard once (can't remember who / when) someone say (and I paraphrase from memory) don't call yourself a noob when you ask a question on a ml. noob is a term used to describe 'idiots' who don't read, and don't try. I can't understand when people say 'complete idiot here, just wanting to ask a question'. The 'I don't want to read anything' crowd? At the beginning, there was a big 'gentoo is for advanced users type' sign on the front page. If you dumb gentoo down to make it idiot-proof only idiots will use it. If you make it more idiot proof, someone will make a better idiot. You'd be chasing a moving target. It is a good sign, that people from other distros are asking questions in the gentoo forums, because they expect good answers there. It is also a known fact, that ubuntus forums are very big - but good answers are rare. When ubuntu f*ed up a X update sometime ago, ou had thousands of helpless users. Do you really want that kind of people in gentoo? On a side note, this ml would have to be proof that Gentoo is maintaining a decent quality. How many times have I heard this is the best mailing list with the most knowledgeable users? nope. It is just the wave of people who want to use the cool-distro-of-the-day. hey that was me once upon a time. That's how I found Gentoo, but then I wasn't a noob at that stage, so I recognised what I found and stuck to it... -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than forgiveness for being right. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On 18/12/06, John J. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 10:37:10PM +, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:58:26 -0800, Grant wrote: It may, but you are confusing cause and effect. A distro with more developers should be a better distro, and should have more users. Well, Microsoft has proven that theory wrong ;- festus. -- Indeed. In fact Fred Brooks, (In The Mythical Man Month, specifically cited MS-DOS as one of the computing projects that people don't get excited about - for the very reason you and he cites, that throwing more developers at a project will not only fail to improve it, and improve it faster, but will slow it down and make it buggier. Jeff -- Now, did you hear the news today? They say the danger's gone away But I can hear the marching feet Moving into the street Adapted from Genesis, Land of Confusion http://latedeveloperbasketcase.blogspot.com -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] OT - Need more asterisk help
I think I have asterisk set up correctly, but it won't answer the phone. I have a Motorolola X100P card. ztcfg outputs the correct stuff: camille asterisk # ztcfg -vv Zaptel Configuration == Channel map: Channel 01: FXS Kewlstart (Default) (Slaves: 01) 1 channels configured. and I think I have zapata.conf and extension.conf set up correctly to answer the phone and echo, but asterisk will not pick up the phone. I can asterisk -r and type dial and I hear a pre-recorded demo message through my speakers (I think that's a good sign.) Is there a variable somewhere that determines after how many rings asterisk picks up? Is there some other way to determine if it's working correctly? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
061218 Neil Bothwick wrote: Do we really need yet another easy to use distro? Gentoo is for those who want maximum control over their systems and are prepared to make the effort to achieve this. Ubuntu ilk are supermarkets, where crowds shop for branded groceries. Gentoo is a garden, where devotees grow their own healthy produce. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Firefox, flash player, and youTube
On 12/18/06, Iain Buchanan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2006-12-18 at 10:51 +0100, Arnau Bria wrote: On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:57:05 -0800 Kevin O'Gorman wrote: I'm up-to-date on stable ebuilds. I've tried to view a cute youTube Code Monkey video, but get the complaint my flash Player plugin is obsolete (or I'm blocking Javascript, which is false). It's at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lLRBiEBRAc Here's some code for downloading youtube videos: or, you could just install the firefox add-on videodownloader from http://javimoya.com/blog/youtube_en.php and have a little icon in your status bar which, on a right click, will let you download any mp3, flash, wmv, avi, etc, etc, on the current web page. HTH! -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free trip around the Sun. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list SNIP I've downloaded the latest player that Adobe offers for linux, /SNIP Are you talking about the one that firefox directs you to based on the EMBED tag for the player or the actual latest linux version? Specificly: http://labs.adobe.com/downloads/flashplayer9.html I have yet to find any flash that whines about my version or anything like it since installing that. No problems either. -- () The ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against HTML Email, /\ vCards, and proprietary formats. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [O.T] photomosaic
A friend of mine built this Python script, I'm sure he doesn't mind ;) #!/usr/bin/env python # by Andre Bocchini import sys import os import string import getopt import Image import ImageFilter import ImageStat def usage(): Displays information on how to use the program. print print Usage : mosaic.py [options] print Required: print -i input-img Source image for the mosaic print -s img-dir Directory where other images are located print -o output-img Final mosaic image print -b blocks Number of blocks per row in the mosaic print -w width Final mosaic width print -h height Final mosaic height print -t threshold Sensitivity of the image analyzer print Optional: print --help Displays this help information print def calculate_block_means(filename, blocks_in_row): Breaks an image into a matrix that has blocks_in_row x blocks_in_row number of blocks, takes a mean of the RGB values of each block, and stores this mean into a list that is returned to the caller. block_mean_list = [] image = Image.open(filename) size = image.size block_width = size[0] / blocks_in_row block_height = size[1] / blocks_in_row curr_block = 0 slice = Image.new(RGB, (block_width, block_height)) for i in range(0, blocks_in_row): for j in range(0, blocks_in_row): for y_offset in range(0, block_height): for x_offset in range(0, block_width): startx = j * block_width starty = i * block_height slice.putpixel((x_offset, y_offset),\ image.getpixel((startx + x_offset, starty + y_offset))) slice_stat = ImageStat.Stat(slice) slice_mean = slice_stat.mean slice_r_mean = slice_mean[0] slice_g_mean = slice_mean[1] slice_b_mean = slice_mean[2] final_slice_mean = (slice_r_mean + slice_g_mean + slice_b_mean) / 3 block_mean_list.append(final_slice_mean) curr_block = curr_block + 1 #print Block mean for block %d: %d % (i+j, final_slice_mean) return block_mean_list def build_mean_list(image_directory): Scans a directory for image files, takes the mean of the RGB values in each image file, and stores these mean values into a list. Each element in this list contains a pair of image file name and mean RGB value. The list is returned to the caller. image_mean_list = [] # In order to avoid some repetition in the images used for flat dark areas, # we keep a least recently used flag for every image. lru_list = [] images = os.listdir(image_directory) for filename in images: try: # This is the next image in the list image = Image.open(image_directory + / + filename) # Getting mean values for the current image img_stat = ImageStat.Stat(image) img_mean = img_stat.mean img_r_mean = img_mean[0] img_g_mean = img_mean[1] img_b_mean = img_mean[2] final_img_mean = (img_r_mean + img_g_mean + img_b_mean) / 3 image_mean_list.append((image_directory + / + filename,\ final_img_mean)) lru_list.append(0) except IOError: pass except: print +++ Unknown error encountered while building mean list return image_mean_list, lru_list if __name__ == __main__: # Parse command line try: opts, args = getopt.getopt(sys.argv[1:], i:s:o:b:w:t:h:, [help]) except getopt.GetoptError: usage() sys.exit(-1) in_image_name = None src_image_dir = None out_image_name = None out_image_width = -1 out_image_height = -1 blocks_in_row = -1 threshold = 10 for option, value in opts: if option == --help: usage() sys.exit(0) if option == -i: in_image_name = value if option == -o: out_image_name = value if option == -s: src_image_dir = value if option == -t: threshold = string.atoi(value) if option == -w: out_image_width = string.atoi(value) if option == -h: out_image_height = string.atoi(value) if option == -b: blocks_in_row = string.atoi(value) # Checking for invalid input error = False if in_image_name == None: print You must specify an input image error = True if out_image_name == None: print You must specify an output image error = True if src_image_dir == None: print You must specify an image src directory error = True if blocks_in_row 0: print You must specify a valid number of blocks in a row error = True if error == True: usage() sys.exit(-1) # Display useful information print
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
All, This thread caused me to go back to the website and reread the social contract that Gentoo has posted. The contract lists a core set of values that the distribution keeps as a whole. I feel that Gentoo is healthy based on this regard. Of course, there are other things to factor but the values that a distro bases its actions will filter down to popularity and activity of the distro. I have used a lot of distros and I am beginning to see each distro, each OS as a tool to get a job done. If your needs are for a roll-it-out-one-shot distro then use one of those. If you need to have a specific set of tools and services running and nothing else, then I would use Gentoo. Gentoo's health relies on following the social contract it has posted and fulfilling the needs of its users. Whether that is 1000 users or 10,000 users is no matter. I am using three different distros in the project I am doing now. One of the central distros is Gentoo. Regards, Daryl -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] bzflag
Hello, I have bzflag working on several systems(yea, it's the new rage around the office and with the kids in the hood). But, for some reason it just dies on a amd64 with an ATI-1900 XT card. I just got the ati-drivers happy on this system. When I fire up bzflag, it takes control of the screen for a fraction of a second. I've looked in /var/log/messages and /var/log/Xorg.0.log but nothing there. How do I debug this? Both version 2.0.4 and 2.0.8 exhibit the same symptoms. ideas? James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] nvidia-legacy-drivers problems/questions
Hi, I'm doing updates to my dad's Gentoo machine 350 miles away. It pretty much hasn't been touched in about a year as per his request. However we agreed it was time to move forward so I've done the gcc-4.1.1 upgrade and rebuilt the machine completely. At the command line from here things look like they are running with the new kernel. ivtv is up for MythTV recording. I don't know how to tell what state his screen is in since he isn't home to look at it. However I seem to be having problems with the NVidia drivers so I'm looking for some help. When I first built the machine I installed nvidia-drivers. After rebooting with the new 2.6.18-gentoo-r4 kernel nvidia was loaded but got a message in dmesg telling me that the card is supported by nvidia-legacy-drivers: SNIP NVRM: The NVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X GPU installed in this system is NVRM: supported through the NVIDIA Legacy drivers. Please NVRM: visit http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html for more NVRM: information. The 1.0-9742 NVIDIA driver will ignore NVRM: this GPU. Continuing probe... NVRM: No NVIDIA graphics adapter found! SNIP I then removed that NVidia package and emerged nvidia-drivers-legacy. It seemed to emerge but I saw this message when building it: SNIP test -e include/linux/autoconf.h -a -e include/config/auto.conf || ( \ echo; \ echo ERROR: Kernel configuration is invalid.; \ echo include/linux/autoconf.h or include/config/auto.conf are missing.;\ echo Run 'make oldconfig make prepare' on kernel src to fix it.; \ echo; \ /bin/false) SNIP However I think the driver does load as I see this at the end of dmesg: SNIP Adding 1172264k swap on /dev/sda5. Priority:-1 extents:1 across:1172264k eth0: setting full-duplex. ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNK4] enabled at IRQ 5 ACPI: PCI Interrupt :03:00.0[A] - Link [LNK4] - GSI 5 (level, low) - IRQ 5 NVRM: loading NVIDIA Linux x86 Kernel Module 1.0-7184 Tue Aug 1 18:38:58 PDT 2006 gandalf ~ # SNIP The problem I seem to be having right now is with xdm. It stops OK, but when I try to start it I get these messages: SNIP gandalf ~ # /etc/init.d/xdm stop * Stopping xdm ... [ ok ] gandalf ~ # /etc/init.d/xdm status * status: stopped gandalf ~ # /etc/init.d/xdm start * Setting up xdm ... /sbin/start-stop-daemon: stat /usr/bin/xdm: No such file or directory (No such file or directory) * ERROR: could not start the Display Manager... xdm: no process killed [ ok ] gandalf ~ # /etc/init.d/xdm status * status: started gandalf ~ # SNIP So it seems, from 350 miles away, that xdm is stopping and starting, but I get error messages. What's up with that? What I'm really wondering right now is what is being displayed on his screen? Is there a login window? Seems like maybe it's working: gandalf ~ # ps aux | grep xdm root 11983 0.0 0.1 1604 524 pts/0R+ 17:38 0:00 grep --colour=auto xdm gandalf ~ # but what is that error message above telling me? What else can I do from here to investigate the state of this remote machine? Thanks in advance! Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] bzflag
On AD 2006 December 19 Tuesday 01:37:50 AM + +, James wrote: I have bzflag working on several systems(yea, it's the new rage around the office and with the kids in the hood). But, for some reason it just dies on a amd64 with an ATI-1900 XT card. I just got the ati-drivers happy on this system. When I fire up bzflag, it takes control of the screen for a fraction of a second. I've looked in /var/log/messages and /var/log/Xorg.0.log but nothing there. How do I debug this? Both version 2.0.4 and 2.0.8 exhibit the same symptoms. Have you made sure you enabled/disabled the proper modules in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and followed the howto? http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/dri-howto.xml Justin -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: bzflag
Justin Findlay justin at jfindlay.us writes: But, for some reason it just dies on a amd64 with an ATI-1900 XT card. I just got the ati-drivers happy on this system. When I fire up bzflag, it takes control of the screen for a fraction of a second. Have you made sure you enabled/disabled the proper modules in /etc/X11/xorg.conf and followed the howto? http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/dri-howto.xml yes, glxinfo | grep redering says direct rendering: Yes glxgears runs OK on default size about 830 FPS on full screen size about 250 FPS I'm using the ati-drivers binaries as the radeon driver allowd bzflag to work but it as so slow it crashed. The card is based on the newest R580 chip 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc R580 [Radeon X1900 XT] Primary It seems to be working, but, bzflag is not happy. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] nvidia-legacy-drivers problems/questions
On Monday 18 December 2006 21:52, Mark Knecht wrote: The commands are unclear to me in the sense that I may need to rebuild the kernel, or not, after running them. I cannot tell. Any idea? Well, before running make oldconfig, you should copy the .config file from the kernel you used just before this one (2.6.16-gentoo-r12 possibly?) to /usr/src/linux. make oldconfig will then create a new .config based on your previous settings for the new kernel. I don't know what make prepare does... someone else want to pick that one up? R -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] WHAT IS Gentoo architecture for Pentium4 Prescott-2M
On Monday 18 December 2006 21:44, Statux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote about 'Re: [gentoo-user] WHAT IS Gentoo architecture forPentium4 Prescott-2M': However, I had always been told to not use x86_64 (CHOST) unless it was an Itanium. (Can anyone else add to this?). You're just plain wrong. :P x86_64 is the generic name for amd64, emt64, and x64 (see below) so that is correct for the CHOST setting for that architecture. Chips using that architecture are also generally happy running as a x86 CHOST. For Itanium, the correct CHOST is (IIRC) ia64, and I'm not sure how well Gentoo supports it. EM64T should always use nocona in the CFLAGS for 64bit. EMT64 and AMD64 are the same technology, just different marketing names. X64 is another name you'll see is some of Sun's literature. In any case, the -march setting is CPU specific, if your CPU isn't specificly mentioned as supported under a -march setting, you could produce broken executables. -- If there's one thing we've established over the years, it's that the vast majority of our users don't have the slightest clue what's best for them in terms of package stability. -- Gentoo Developer Ciaran McCreesh pgpGFg7DVZOAS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] CUPS finds printer disconnected.
Arend von der Lieth wrote: Hi Carl, I do not know if that helps, but I had a similar problem with my parallel printer recently (after upgrading to udev-103). I could solve the problem by directly integrating the (important) corresponding parts of the kernel (according to: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/printing-howto.xml) instead of compiling them as modules (* instead of M). HTH. Kindest regards, Arend Carl Adams wrote: Hmmm, makes me wonder. I have everything compiled into my kernel to and I have not ran into this issue before. Most everything I have ever ran into was fixed by deleting the printer then adding it back again. I use Konqueror to do this so maybe that makes some difference. Strange problem though. Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] OT - Need driver for...
On Monday 18 December 2006 21:47, Michael Sullivan wrote: I had a new piece of hardware installed this morning, and I need to know what I need to modprobe/alter kernel config for to use the new hardware: 05:01.0 Communication controller: Motorola Wildcard X100P Subsystem: Motorola Unknown device Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 22 I/O ports at b800 [size=256] Memory at ff90 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 2 My trusty friend google teels me that you need to: modprobe wcfxo alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 20:35, Grant wrote: Thanks for everyone's input thus far. I've been meaning to build and maintain an ebuild for interchange (icdevgroup.org) for a while now. I've never built an ebuild before, my programming skills are limited, and at least two other developers have attempted and given up on an interchange ebuild, but I'm making that my New Year's resolution. It's easy enough, all the info you need is in man 5 ebuild. The only problem areas that really get you stuck in me experience are trying to cope with binary-only proprietary packages that do silly things like use Java installers Gentoo literally can't die without something better to replace it. Why do you keep making this odd assertion that gentoo will/may/might/looks like/appears to be dying? Nothing could be further from the truth. You don't need to replace gentoo with anything because even if the entire project and ever single dev died in one huge humongous bus accident, all the gentoo code and repos are still there. So, in such an event, simply host everything somewhere else on the internet alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On 19 December 2006 00:23, Bryan Østergaard wrote: Gentoo started with the stated goal of providing a metadistribution. This basically means providing the best possible foundation for others to tinker with any way they like. Be it building embedded applications, making the next 'Ubuntu' or whatever. To me the flexibility that Gentoo provides is one of the most important things. Exactly. Over the last 2 years or so, I have converted most of my customers to Gentoo - and it is a big relief compared to all those commercial distributions. I all ways had to fight their admin tools for any setup that wasn't completely standard. With Gentoo, I can set up systems exactly the way I want them without fighting anything. That's an incredible advantage from a professional sys/net-admin's POV. And for those who think Gentoo is declining I can only say that's definitely not what I'm seeing as lead of developer relations and recruiters. There's always some developers leaving but we have a lot more developers joining us. In the last 3 years that I've been a Gentoo developer we've grown from ~80 developers to 330+ developers. That's a yearly growth of 60% or more. Amen. At last, someone provides numbers instead of speculation. Now, if only open-xchange made the jump from hard masked to unstable. ;-) Uwe -- Mark Twain: I rather decline two drinks than a German adjective. http://www.SysEx.com.na -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo healthy?
On Monday 18 December 2006 20:54, Grant wrote: I believe the great benefit of Gentoo is its flexibility, and flexibility is like a meta-benefit because it makes possible any other benefit. What do you think makes Ubuntu the distro of the moment? Is it ease-of-use? If Gentoo focused more on ease-of-use aspects of the Ubuntu variety, they would attract more users and thereby increase the rate of growth for the software. Ubuntu is popular because a South African Python-loving, Debian-using billionaire astronaut who built Thawte from the ground up put up the money for it. The result is that currently it's in fashion - the same way that mini skirts and belly rings move in and out of fashion. This is not to distract from what Ubuntu has achieved - Mark gathered a fine team to kick-start Ubuntu and they built a fine product which people like. It's also targeted to a very different set of users than gentoo. We had our time of being the latest cool thing two years ago but don't make the mistake of thinking that because the fanboys went somewhere else, that there's nothing left. The real core of gentoo, the heart and soul of it the expertise behind it, is still there doing what it always did - making ebuilds. The Linux landscape consists of about 50% of fickle idiots who chase after the latest greatest rainbow. We have these because there is so much choice out there. As a contrast, Windows doesn't have this because there's nothing to choose from apart from standard Windows. Now, these 50% fanboys move around from distro to distro every 6 to 9 months if my observations are accurate. What does this mean? Nothing. It *could* mean that a new distro is well marketed and well thought of - that's cool in the early days. When the fans move on to something new it doesn't mean anything about the last cool thing, it simply means that the fickle crowd have something new to go ooh, wow! about. In other words, it's a reflection of a considerable user bases' fickleness, and no reflection of any kind on the distro. Get over it, gentoo isn't going anywhere. It's perfectly capable of coping with the creaks and groans of everyday life. alan -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
