Re: [h-cost] Roman experts?

[Ginni Morgan]

If you look real close, there appears to be a triangular shape hanging from the 
back of the neck.  This would match what Cate describes below.  It looks to me 
as if the entire cloak is lined in a dark color.  That's the only way some of 
the draping lines make sense to me.  I also think that the trim is actually two 
small squares, one on each side, applied to the hood.  They look to me to be 
white with brown trim around the edges.  And, of course, most of those squares 
would be hidden under the fold of the hood.

As for the baker selling bread, my guess would be that he is wearing a white 
tunic and with possibly a white cloak of the same type which is thrown back 
over his right shoulder, while the left side covers his arm to the wrist, 
leaving the hand free.  I guess the question would be whether or not he was a 
citizen entitled to wear a toga, followed by whether he would wear his toga 
(they were expensive) to work in his shop/booth if he was.

Now you have more questions to ask of the experts.  ;>)

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of RC Weber
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 12:10 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Roman experts?

To me, it looks like a warm-white (undyed wool?) hooded 1/2 (maybe 2/3 or 3/4) 
circle cloak where the hood is lined with darkish blue and trimmed with warm 
brown in a rectilinear fashion.

The hood is made of a rectangle folded in half to make a square and seamed on 
one edge (usually the back so the top has no seam to leak rain
through) and then mounted to the neck area.  That makes fold on top, seam in 
back, open edge stitched to cloak, other open edge for face.
This type folds against the wearer's back as shown.

The neck area of the cloak could have a scoop or even an actual arc cut out as 
the hood, when stitched on, provides a sturdy edge so there's a minimum of sag, 
roll-up, or 'ride' with a maximum of comfort.

In the picture, the cloak's clasped/tied/secured in front with the right side 
flipped back over the right arm.

That's what it looks like to me, at any rate.  :-)

-Cate



On 14-Jul-16 11:35 PM, scourney wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking at a job reproducing the clothes in a Pompeian fresco. I 
> think I've identified most of the clothing involved, but still have a 
> question on one thing. Any Ancient Roman experts out there?
> The painting in question is the sale of the bread 
> -https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sale_of_bread,_fresco_(from_Pompeii)
>  - I'm going with the seated man wearing a white toga over a white tunic and 
> the three in front wearing tunics and paenula of some dark color, but I can't 
> decide what the off white thing is. At first I thought cloak, cause it looks 
> like it is clasped on the shoulder, but it has that odd reddish trim which 
> almost looks like a hood.  It looks too small to be a hood and why the trim 
> just in that spot? So I'm not sure what it is.
> This is my first paying gig, so I want it to go well.
> Thanks all, Susan Courney
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Re: [h-cost] Moving

[Ginni Morgan]

Ummm, 1940s isn't old for Northern California considering Sacramento has been 
around since 1849/50 and the Sacramento and San Joaquin Valleys were pretty 
much completely settled and being farmed by the 1860s through 1880s.  And a lot 
of the other towns in the Valley are of similar age.

However, a 1940s house certainly can be considered to be of late middle age.  
It's just not really a senior citizen in comparison to a lot of others houses 
around town.  ;>)

Congratulations on your new home and welcome to Sacramento!

Ginni
(Sacramento almost native since 1957)


-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Lavolta Press
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 2:43 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Moving

We're not going to take care of the garden ourselves. The previous owner had a 
team of two gardeners who come once a week and we kept them on.
Yes, there are many large, mature trees. Also an incredibly prolific Meyer 
lemon tree.  A lot of rose bushes but all white.  It's more like a landscaped 
park than a flower garden. It even has an outdoor lighting system for night use.

The previous owner didn't obey any water restrictions and the Sacramento water 
department asked us to cut down, so we cut down 50%. Things are a little droopy 
now, but would be better if the arrangement of the sprinkler system were more 
effective. We're going to get some landscaping people to look at the garden 
once we move in, move the sprinklers or install a drip system, prune some 
trees, and maybe we'll change gardeners. But that's not our first priority.  I 
want to plant a mandarin orange tree, which should flourish considering how 
well the lemon tree is doing.

I will look into the Sacramento heritage housing for information. 1940s is old 
for northern California, after all. Thanks for the suggestion.
Currently what information we have on remodels is from long-time neighbors.

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com

On 8/30/2015 2:16 PM, Patricia Dunham wrote:
> Sounds MARVELOUS! We've been following American Bungalow magazine and the 
> other major Arts-n-Crafts-houses one (which I can never remember the name 
> of!) for quite a while now.
>
> Since it's only the 40's, that's probably too recent for any Sacramento 
> heritage-housing organization to be interested in??? Such a group MIGHT have 
> info about the early days of your house. The Rehab Addict gal (HGTV) often 
> finds wonderful pictures of early days of her houses that way.
>
> Hope you have some medium or bigger, drought-resistant trees to help with 
> microclimates and passive cooling! We have several maples and hazelnut trees 
> that help our (VERY) little 50s rancher a LOT that way.  Also, 2-acre garden, 
> oy!
>
> Best wishes!
> chimene the envious, 8-)
>
> On Aug 30, 2015, at 12:30 PM, Lavolta Press  wrote:
>
>> The seller did a lot of work to prepare for the sale, including a new roof,  
>> and we now have estimates for all the indoor work we want to do. So I don't 
>> think there will be any more expensive surprises.
>>
>> The other surprises are kind of fun. The house is almost 5,000 square feet 
>> (plus garage) and was built in the 40s as a Colonial Revival style. I grew 
>> up in an area where there were plenty of real Colonial houses and see little 
>> resemblance, unless you count wide hallways, and wide doorways to all the 
>> public rooms. It could as easily be Mission, which is more the look we're 
>> aiming at.  Anyway, there have been a number of owners and each one has 
>> remodeled the property in some significant way.  We're not even sure how 
>> much of the house is original and what was added on or when. We keep 
>> discovering things. The other day a painting contractor who came to give an 
>> estimate examined the drywall on the living room ceiling. He pointed out 
>> there were long patches indicating that the ceiling once had ornamental 
>> Mission style beams across it. I'd rather like to put beams in there now, 
>> but my husband refuses. There is a family room next to it with an entirely 
>> wooden ceiling, massive (pr!
 o!
>   bably) nonsupportive beams and all, so I suppose that will have to do.
>> We hadn't even really examined the grounds closely till recently. There are 
>> a number of benches and things we may have to do something about at some 
>> point.
>>
>> Fran
>> Lavolta Press
>> www.lavoltapress.com
>>
>> On 8/30/2015 12:02 PM, WorkroomButtons.com wrote:
>>> ...   BTW, for the few who are left in h-costume, I just wanted to say my
>>> husband and I are cashing in our SF house, which we've owned for
>>> over 30 years, to take advantage of the local real estate boom.  And
>>> we already bought our dream house in the Sacramento area!  We don't
>>> expect to move in till sometime in the fall. We're having the house
>>> painted in Arts & Crafts colors, oak flooring put into the few rooms
>>> that don't already have it, 

Re: [h-cost] Anyone here?

[Ginni Morgan]

Drat!  I'm not able to do Facebook.

Ginni Morgan

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of annbw...@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2015 4:35 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone here?

I think so. I believe many who used to come here regularly may have shifted to 
various Facebook groups--I know I have.

Ann Wass







-Original Message-
From: Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com
To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com
Sent: Tue, Jan 13, 2015 6:40 pm
Subject: [h-cost] Anyone here?


Hi, I haven't been getting any messages lately, until today-I got only one.
Is the list especially quiet?

Sharon Collier

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Re: [h-cost] Medieval Garments Reconstructed free PDF

[Ginni Morgan]

Thank you!  That one worked.  Someday I will also purchase the physical book.  
I like books.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Aylwen Gardiner-Garden
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 4:51 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Medieval Garments Reconstructed free PDF

Its downloading at
http://en.unipress.dk/media/3492090/9788779349018_medieval_garments.pdf - of 
course I've already bought the book full price when I went to Denmark.
G!
Cheers,
Aylwen

*Aylwen Gardiner-Garden*

*Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/*


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov
wrote:

 Ummm, it looks like you actually have to buy the hardbound book to get
 a free copy of the e-book in .pdf format.  Unless there's a different
 webpage than the one I ended up on when I clicked the link.

 Ginni

 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com]
 On Behalf Of Charlene C
 Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 3:19 PM
 To: h-cost...@indra.com
 Subject: [h-cost] Medieval Garments Reconstructed free PDF

 Free PDF version this month:

 http://en.unipress.dk/udgivelser/m/medieval-garments-reconstructed/

 --Charlene
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Re: [h-cost] Anyone know what manuscript this is?

[Ginni Morgan]

I don't know if you've already found this information, but my guess is that the 
image is actually from the British Library manuscript collection and that it is 
part of the Royal Collection.  If so, it should have a numeral before the D. 
IX.  The website seems to indicate that the manuscripts number from 1. A. I - 
20. E. X, Appendix 1 - 89.  They are catalogued in:  G. F. Warner  J. P. 
Gilson, Catalogue of Western Manuscripts in the Old Royal and King's 
Collections (London, 1921), 4 vols., with index in vol. 3 and plates in vol. 4.

I checked online and this image doesn't appear as part of the digitized 
collections.  Only two D. IX turned up and they didn't have this image.

I hope this helps.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Wicked Frau
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 4:10 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] Anyone know what manuscript this is?

There is a black and white illustration on  page
142http://tinyurl.com/mcpage142*
of Medieval Costume in England and France by Mary G. Houston. *It is supposed 
to have come from a manuscript in the British Museum.  The number is D. IX.  
Does anyone know if this is enough information to identify the manuscript?  My 
searches are not getting anywhere.

Thanks,

Saragrace
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Re: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question

[Ginni Morgan]

I think Arnold covered this in Patterns of Fashion, but I could be wrong.  I'm 
at work and all my costume books are packed up anyway.  My guess is a small 
rolled hem on any cut edge.  The openwork stitching that attached one piece of 
cloth to another needs something to anchor it that won't fray apart under 
strain.  It is my understanding that the garments were often taken apart for 
washing and sunbleaching.  Thus each piece would need to be finished.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Liz H.
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 9:55 AM
To: h-costume@mail.indra.com
Subject: [h-cost] Chemise/Shift question

I'm sure sometime has answered this sometime over the years, but I can't seen 
to find it...

In the 1480-1600 period of time, does anyone know how the edges of the cloth, 
or seams of under-tunics/shifts/shirts/chemises would have been finished?  I 
figure that as they would have been the most often washed garment, something 
would have been done to help prevent the edges of the cloth from 
unraveling...but I haven't been able to figure out what, during that period of 
time.

(Me, I either zigzag or whip-stitch the edges usually...but I'm wondering what 
would have been done *then*)

Thanks!
-Elisabeth/Liz
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Re: [h-cost] t-top? Tank?

[Ginni Morgan]

And then, again, a 25 y/o guy who just went shopping with his girlfriend just 
might know what it was called, or at least what his girlfriend called it.  Of 
course, he might also go with that skimpy top thing.  I don't think any guy I 
know (I'm 63) would ever call it a blouse, but skimpy top would be right up 
there as a good description.  Way skimpy top would be even more appropriate.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of aqua...@patriot.net
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 11:20 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-top? Tank?

I guess it would be better to ask some guys who are the age of the character. I 
could just imagine an older guy describing it as a skimpy top.

-Carol


 I doubt he'd be up on the latest fashion jargon unless he was into that.
 He'd probably say blouse, top...maybe tank. But I can't imagine he'd
 ever say camisole or cami. LOL!


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Re: [h-cost] t-top? Tank?

[Ginni Morgan]

Ask them.  Most of us are the wrong gender and the wrong age.  My ex-husband 
used skimpy, particularly concerning his daughters' clothing.  But then he's my 
age.  Skimpy might be generational.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 12:55 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] t-top? Tank?

I wonder about the skimpy part. Do young guys use the term? Maybe might say 
hot if it were skimpy. Sheesh. Information overload :)

Thanks, guys, for the fun discussion!!

 == Marjorie

On Jan 6, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Ginni Morgan wrote:

 And then, again, a 25 y/o guy who just went shopping with his girlfriend just 
 might know what it was called, or at least what his girlfriend called it.  Of 
 course, he might also go with that skimpy top thing.  I don't think any guy 
 I know (I'm 63) would ever call it a blouse, but skimpy top would be 
 right up there as a good description.  Way skimpy top would be even more 
 appropriate.

 Ginni

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Re: [h-cost] Corded petticoat conundrum

[Ginni Morgan]

Curious minds want to know:  Is the cording in the warp or in the weft?

Ginni Morgan

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of li...@genteelarts.com
Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 8:34 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Corded petticoat conundrum



  BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; } 
Yes. I own an original petticoat made from manufactured corded fabric and have 
information on several others. I also have patent information on several 
designs of corded fabrics. My original has the cords in groups, with the number 
of cords increasing from top to botton.  While a few women may have continued 
to wear corded petticoats after 1860, my research indicates they fade from 
common use with the advent of the steel crinoline.  I'd be happy to discuss my 
research with you.

Carolann Schmitt

cschm...@genteelarts.com [1]

www.genteelarts.com [2]

Ladies  Gentlemen of the 1860s Conference,  March 6-9, 2014


Links:
--
[1] mailto:cschm...@genteelarts.com
[2] http://www.genteelarts.com/
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Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?

[Ginni Morgan]

Um, the June 2012 issue of National Geographic Magazine has an article with 
color photographs on the colors of the Terra Cotta Army.  Check your local 
library (or your neighbors) for a copy.  The colors were stunning.  Definitely 
eye bleeding time.  As for peasants, see if you can google Chinese painting for 
that period and look for workers in the rice paddies or something like that.  
There are often travelogue paintings that sometimes have servants hauling 
everything up a mountain.

Ginni

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On 
Behalf Of WorkroomButtons.com
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 3:56 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Chinese peasant costumes... help?

Thanks!  I think I found the statue you're describing:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PGdp__poAtM/T-LYMC-WgCI/L8Q/Nld5-rVqp7c/s1600/scan0004.jpg

You're right -- pretty garish... One does wonder what kind of dyes might have 
been used by Chinese peasants.  This may be irrelevant, but I read that 
European peasants' clothing was actually quite colorful, and that they 
frequently re-dyed them as the natural colors tended to fade.

Wow!  That sounds like quite the project you have there.  I haven't a clue 
about peasant costumes, sorry.  But one thing you might want to think about is, 
colour was used a lot more that it would appear now.  The statues pretty much 
appear to be a consistent mud shade, right?  Well, I was watching one 
documentary about these statutes (I admit it, the things fascinate me), and 
apparently they used to be painted incredibly colourfully but the paint didn't 
survive time as well as the terracotta.  There are only traces of the paint 
left, not enough that would show up on camera, so a German (or at least I think 
it was German) museum recreated one of the statues and then using the traces of 
paint found on it, painted as it would have been when it was buried and put 
it on display.  Most people are so blown away by the garishness of the colours 
they have difficulty believing that is what it would have looked like.  So 
after my long tangent...don't  write off colours for the peasan!
 t kinds, because if those statues were anything to go by, apparently there 
wasn't a colour they didn't like in any combination.  LOL!  Just about enough 
to make your eyes bleed - as bad as the Greeks!

Cheers,
Danielle
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Re: [h-cost] Sorry, that last one was spam

[Ginni Morgan]

A message on another list seems to indicate that Yahoo itself got hacked and 
something like 400,000 Yahoo e-mail accounts now have this problem.


 Pradana P.M. l_clausew...@yahoo.com 9/26/12 11:05 PM 
I hadn't logged in to my mail account for a few days and guess what--in the 
meantime it has apparently been hacked by a spammer through a server in Japan. 
And, judging by the messages in some other lists I'm subscribed to, I'm not the 
only one affected by this most recent problem. Sorry for the inconvenience.

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Re: [h-cost] Recent double post from Annefoote

[Ginni Morgan]

This same or a similar message has shown up on at least two other lists I'm on. 
 I just noticed that while they purport to come from different websites, they 
all contain this language:  /wp-content/plug-ins/ .  I don't think they're 
legitimate.

 Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com 9/24/12 10:32 AM 
Looks like a virus/spam/suspicious.

Anne, if you're reading the list, please comment, or at least check  
your computer for issues. Hope it's ok.

==Marjorie Wilser

  @..@   @..@   @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/ 




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Re: [h-cost] Walking feet

[Ginni Morgan]

I bought mine to use for sewing my canvas pavilion.  Worked like a dream.  I 
have been told that one should always be used when sewing velvet.

 Aurora Celeste auroracele...@gmail.com 9/21/12 5:21 PM 
I use mine for creepy-crawlies like velvet and sheers, and for leather.

~Aurora

On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote:

 Fran-
 I had a walking foot for my Bernina, but I sold it. I found myself not
 really needing it, and not liking it when I did use it. Save yourself some
 money and don't buy one.

 You shouldn't need to baste the seam before sewing it with your new
 Bernina,
 UNLESS it's velvet. Pinning should be sufficient. You'll find the machine
 feeds beautifully.

 Kim


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Re: [h-cost] Puts the burden where it belongs!

[Ginni Morgan]

I don't click on bare links without at least a short explanation of where 
they're going or what they're about, so I agree with Joan on this.  What are 
they?

Ginni Morgan

 Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com 9/20/12 4:34 PM 
Did you read the articles?  Or the link titles?

Fran
Lavolta Press
www.lavoltapress.com 


On 9/20/2012 4:18 PM, Joan Jurancich wrote:
 At 08:26 PM 9/16/2012, you wrote:
 http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/09/07/modesty-glasses/ 

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/ultra-orthodox-jews-blurry-glasses_n_1757338.html
  


 http://www.modestyglasses.com/index.html 

 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 www.lavoltapress.com 
 www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress 

 What in the world are these links about?


 Joan Jurancich
 joa...@surewest.net 

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Re: [h-cost] question about antique academic regalia

[Ginni Morgan]

Call your local museum to see who they recommend for needlework and 
antique/bridal garments that don't need the full conservation treatment.  They 
usually have a list of preferred local cleaners.  Chain cleaners aren't a good 
place to go in my experience.

 annbw...@aol.com 9/11/12 12:43 PM 

And not just any dry cleaner. See if there is a boutique cleaner in your 
area--one who will treat it carefully and not just throw it into a machine.

Ann Wass



-Original Message-
From: Susan B. Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Tue, Sep 11, 2012 3:33 pm
Subject: [h-cost] question about antique academic regalia


I was just given a (for me) priceless gift -- a silk academic (doctoral) 
own that's about 50 years old.  I'm fairly certain that it needs to be 
ry-cleaned.  Any comments/suggestions/caveats/etc?
Thanks!
Susan
- 
usan B. Farmer
far...@goldsword.com 
braham Baldwin Agricultural College
ollege of Science and Math
ttp://www.abac.edu/sfarmer
ttp://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium
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Re: [h-cost] question about antique academic regalia

[Ginni Morgan]

Also, try calling around to needlework and knitting shops.  They keep lists of 
good cleaners capable of handling antique silk, as well.  If you have an 
independent professional seamstress or tailor in the area, ask them, too.  Same 
reasons, although not necessarily for the antique stuff, just for really good 
silk and wool.

Ginni

 Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com 9/11/12 2:29 PM 
On 9/11/2012 4:48 PM, Ginni Morgan wrote:
 Call your local museum to see who they recommend for needlework and 
 antique/bridal garments that don't need the full conservation treatment.  
 They usually have a list of preferred local cleaners.  Chain cleaners aren't 
 a good place to go in my experience.


nods.  Another good idea!

 annbw...@aol.com 9/11/12 12:43 PM 

 And not just any dry cleaner. See if there is a boutique cleaner in your 
 area--one who will treat it carefully and not just throw it into a machine.


Thanks!

Susan
-- 
Susan Farmer
sfar...@goldsword.com 
Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College
Division of Science and Math
http://www.abac.edu/sfarmer 
http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium 
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Re: [h-cost] sewing machines

[Ginni Morgan]

I'm still using my Singer Golden Touch n Sew from 1962.  Just had it serviced.  
It has sewn everything from Vogue wedding dresses to historical to my heavy 
canvas SCA pavilion.  Haven't got a clue where to start looking for a new 
machine and probably won't ever get one.

Ginni

 annbw...@aol.com 8/15/12 9:37 AM 
To continue on Singers, I used a mid-1970s model until 2000, when I got my 
Bernina, mainly because said Singer has a free arm. I still have it, but it 
just doesn't form a satisfactory stitch anymore, and I even sent it out for 
factory service for this problem. It stitches, but the tension isn't balanced 
correctly, and nothing seems to help. 


OTOH, a cousin of mine used one of the old all-metal workhorse models for 
years. Not sure if she still has it.


Right now, I'm using my 1973 Kenmore (all metal, except the buttonhole 
attachment is plastic) because my Bernina had to go out for repair. The Kenmore 
is doing fine, but it doesn't have a free arm.


I still have my mom's White Rotary, too, that she bought used in the 1930s, but 
I destroyed the plug a while ago and haven't had it replaced yet. It probably 
still sews like a dream, though, but only straight stitching, of course.


Ann Wass



-Original Message-
From: Beteena Paradise bete...@mostlymedieval.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
Sent: Wed, Aug 15, 2012 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [h-cost] sewing machines


I know I'll be unpopular, but I have always had a Singer sewing machine. I've 
upgraded and replaced them but never because the machine stopped working. I now 
have 3 Singers. I had 4 but I gave away my oldest one to some college kids who 
wanted to start costuming. One I keep as a backup machine in case I have 
several 
people over to sew or in case something ever happened to my other machines. It 
stays in the box, in other words. I do most of my sewing on my 621B (I think 
that is the number looking at the machine's label thingie, it is teal green and 
white) that I bought a few years ago and my Futura C250. I hear everyone raving 
about some of the more expensive machines, but I already have those features on 
the Singers and I didn't pay $3000 for a machine either. ;-)
 
Teena



From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com
To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 7:29 AM
Subject: [h-cost] sewing machines

Went with a friend to look at new sewing machines. We hit a Bernina store 
because we were in the hood.

My brain boggled at the prices (21K for ALL the bellses  whistles). . .

Is anybody else shopping and what are your parameters for a great sewing 
machine 
that won't break the bank? (I'm now interested in a serger, so I'll start a 
parallel thread).

==Marjorie Wilser (whose beloved Pfaff is working just fine, thank you!)

@..@  @..@  @..@
Three Toad Press
http://3toad.blogspot.com/ 




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Re: [h-cost] Nottingham Textile Museum

[Ginni Morgan]

Kate

Thanks for the information on the Nottingham Textile Museum.  I'll let her know 
that.  I believe that my friend has already been to Hardwick Hall, but I'll 
mention it anyway.

Ginni

 Kate Bunting k.m.bunt...@derby.ac.uk 8/13/12 3:06 AM 
I live quite near Nottingham, but unfortunately didn't manage to get to the 
Textile Museum before it closed. I've done a little googling and discovered 
that it closed in 2003 because the old house on Castle Gate was considered 
unsuitable for the display of sensitive textiles and costumes. It looks as 
though there have never been enough funds to display the collections anywhere 
else. See

http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/place-lace-s-Calais/story-12188773-detail/story.html
 

(scroll down to see the relevant bits.)

I too thought of Bess of Hardwick's embroideries. Hardwick Hall is in 
Derbyshire, close to the M1 motorway, if Ginni's friend can travel that far.

Kate Bunting
Librarian  17th century reenactor
Derby, UK


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[h-cost] Looking for textile, costume needlework museums near Leeds, Durham or York

[Ginni Morgan]

Greetings, everyone~

Longtime lurker delurking here.  

I have a good friend who is traveling to England about two weeks from now.  She 
will be visiting the area around York, Durham and Leeds and is looking for 
textile, costume and/or needlework museums and/or collections in that general 
part of England.  Her specific area of interest is pre-1650 embroidery in any 
form (garments, hangings, book covers, etc.), particularly Elizabethan 
needlework.  Does anyone know of such places in that area?  Any 
recommendations?  Do they allow photographs?

Also, someone once told her about a museum named the Nottingham Textile  
Costume Museum which supposedly had a very large collection of Elizabethan 
embroideries, etc.  However, this museum supposedly closed shortly after her 
informant visited it.  She thought it was located on Castle Road in Nottingham. 
 We have found a mention of the museum on a what to see in Nottingham website 
and that seems to indicate the museum is currently open.  Does anyone know 
anything about this one?  

Any assistance would be appreciated.

Ginni Morgan
aka Gwenhwyfaer


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Re: [h-cost] Interesting Underwear find

[Ginni Morgan]

http://www.nesat.org/abstracts/lecture_nutz.pdf 

The above link is to the abstract for the archaeologist's presentation at NESAT 
2011.  I look forward to seeing further publication of the finds.  It looks 
really interesting.

Ginni

 Beteena Paradise bete...@mostlymedieval.com 7/17/12 10:52 AM 
The article was in the Daily Mail. It was probably right next to an article 
about seeing the Virgin Mary on a pancake and having an alien as a brother in 
law. 
 
Teena



From: Linda Rice vm...@cox.net
To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com 
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Underwear find

What you say is certainly true... even the article's title is misleading. I
see no lacey lingerie, but I suppose that's what it takes to grab the
average reader today. But it's still interesting, and I'd love to see photos
of other pieces in this discovery. Any leads on that?

::Linda::




-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Robin Netherton
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 11:20 AM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Interesting Underwear find

This article is getting some discussion in other places. It's a shame the 
author (or whoever provided the information to the author) makes so many 
assumptions. For instance, the pictured garment described as a bra appears

to be fragments of a much larger item -- look at the part surviving at the 
lower left side of the garment (right side of the photo) with eyelets at the

side and a waist-level edge at the bottom, which might have been attached to
a 
skirt. (The shaped cups are cool, though! I can see that in 15th c. German 
costume.)

And as Heather Rose Jones pointed out in a conversation elsewhere, the 
string-bikini knickers bear a strong resemblance to men's underwear seen
in 
15th c. German artwork. The article, however, assumes they belonged to
women, 
although there's no context to determine the wearer.

--Robin


On 7/17/2012 9:55 AM, Linda Rice wrote:
 Just read this really interesting article on a discovery of 15th century
 undergarments in Austria. Never say never things really are being dug
up
 every day!



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2174568/Found-castle-vault-scraps- 
 lace-lingerie-rage-500-years-ago.html

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Re: [h-cost] What is a Whip?

[Ginni Morgan]

I believe the term whip, as used here, refers to the driver who carries (and 
uses) an actual whip.  A whip carried the whip.  Depending on the context of 
the useage, there may be overtones of skill indicated.  A man who was a poor 
whip wasn't very good at driving his curricle, phaeton, or other type of 
wheeled vehicle.

The foregoing is courtesy of a misspent youth in which I read copious amounts 
of Georgette Heyer.  A check of the online OED gives the following:

whip, n.
 4. a. One who wields a driving-whip; a driver of horses, a coachman. (Usually 
with descriptive adj. or phr. expressing skill or style.)
[quotations]
1775   R. B. Sheridan, Rivals, i. i,   None of the London whips of any degree 
of ton wear wigs now.
1836   Dickens, Pickwick Papers, (1837) xiii. 128   You're a wery good whip, 
and can do what you like with your horses.
1855   F. E. Smedley, Harry Coverdale's Courtship, v,   The old boy is nothing 
of a whip.
1884   Earl of Malmesbury, Mem. Ex-Minister, I. 16   He..drove four-in-hand 
better than any whip between Windsor and London.

Ginni Morgan

 penn...@costumegallery.com 6/27/12 9:41 PM 
I am working with a 1914 etiquette book and a person titled Whip is used in
the section about Dress When Driving.  What / Who is a Whip in this context?

 

Men who are guests on a coach wear morning or afternoon dress according to
the hour of the day on which the vehicle makes its start.  The whip, if the
host of the occasion, is usually arrayed in distinctive costume.  A gray
suit is the usual selection for spring and summer, brown is a frequent
choice for the autumn..  In the country, and in summer, a gentleman whip
wears a light colored and light-weight suit, with brown shoes and gloves and
a straw or panama hat.

 

For touring, or driving an automobile.No ceremonious costume for men has yet
been evolved to approximate, in style and completeness, the formal dress an
amateur whip wears.

 

Penny Ladnier, owner

The Costume Gallery Websites

 http://www.costumegallery.com/ www.costumegallery.com 

15 websites of fashion, costume, and textile history

FaceBook:  http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery
http://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery 

 

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Re: [h-cost] white glue

[Ginni Morgan]

It's really good to find out that the white glue I remember from childhood in 
Iowa and California is no longer what is marketed in the US.  The description 
of the NZ product is exactly what I remember using.  It dried clear.  And you 
used it for everything.  It came in a white squeeze bottle and we usually 
bought Elmer's.  They must have changed the formulation when I wasn't looking.  
I've only seen the yellow wood glue in the last few years.  Now, I'll have to 
remember not to buy white glue for my permanent projects.

Ginni 


 Audrey Bergeron-Morin audreybmo...@gmail.com 5/30/12 11:09 AM 

 White glue is not waterproof. If you soak it, it softens and you can
 scrape
 it away. Appologies for what may be a regionally based error of judgement
 on my part. The white glue you refer to must be different from the one I am
 familiar with from NZ.This is the one used in the woodwork shop.


You're right, it's different. Here white glue and wood glue are two
different animals. White glue is white and transparent when dry, and it
always remains somewhat water soluble (if you soak it, it softens). Wood
glue is yellowish and also dries yellowish (and stiff) and is waterproof,
AFAIK.
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Re: [h-cost] Need information on sacque garments (NOT the dress)

[Ginni Morgan]

I would assume that VCR refers to video camera recorder or some such thing.  
At least that is what the term would have meant in 1995.  Of course, we all 
know about assumptions!  ;)  Did someone make a recording back then?  Maybe 
it's stashed in your archives somewhere.

Ginni Morgan

 WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com 9/14/11 5:15 PM 
Bear in mind I'm no expert, but they really do appear to be something a woman 
would have worn.  Not sure if any have laundry marks, but that would cinch it 
as we know all the initials of the entire Reed family.

Perhaps she was introducing sacque as a generic term?  Like shoe could 
describe an extremely wide variety of footwear... okay, I'm seriously reaching 
here.

As for the meaning of VCR... this was all done way before my time, and these 
notes were transcribed from something.  I'll ask.

Dede
_

West Village Studio

www.workroombuttons.com 

--- On Wed, 9/14/11, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com 
wrote:
Best thing would be if you could post a photo of one or two of these garments 
(spread out flat would be sufficient).

From
 the description you quoted, these sound like just...shirts. Or shifts. I
 don't think sacque is a term used for these garments either in that 
time period or modernly...except that she refers to a man's sacque 
coat though I don't see how that relates to the garments described 
thereafter. The generic dictionary definition for sacque is a woman's
 full loose hip-length jacket (dictionary.com) and what she describes 
doesn't fit that definition.

What is the VCR?
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Re: [h-cost] Jaw Dropping: Final Price for Debbie Reynolds costumes

[Ginni Morgan]

I saw an article last weekend (just before the sale) about Debbie and her 
collection.  In the interview, she said she could no longer afford to care for 
and store the costumes and the funding for the proposed museum just wasn't 
coming through.  Although she hates to give up the collection, she decided that 
it just had to be done.

Ginni Morgan

 penn...@costumegallery.com 6/22/11 10:55 PM 
You are welcome Julie.  From what I have read the sell bought 18 million.  I
didn't hear about the sale until it was on the TV news Saturday.  But I
didn't see TV or internet from June 1-12 because of my son's wedding.  I did
some backtracking to find out the info that I shared with you all.  I have
joined Profiles in History Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/ProfilesInHistory to receive updates.  That is where
I found out that the next sale is in Dec.  Maybe we can order the next
catalog's sale when they announce its publication.   I'll make sure to let
you know when it is available.  People are begging for another issue to be
published of the first catalog.

Maybe because of Debbie's age that she decided to sell the collection. She
is 77 years old.  There are supposed to have been a museum for her
collection near Dollywood.  I guess it fell through.
snip


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Re: [h-cost] 15th c Headdress Help

[Ginni Morgan]

Guenievre's message on Monday (6/20) has the link.  Sorry, I can't repost it 
from here.

Gwenhwyfaer/Ginni

 Wicked Frau wickedf...@gmail.com 6/22/11 11:58 AM 
Pictures???

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:15 PM, Claire Clarke angha...@adam.com.auwrote:

 Margaret Fitzgerald tomb effigy, in
 St. Canice's Cathedral, Kilkenny, Ireland




-- 
-Sg-
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Re: [h-cost] 15th c Headdress Help

[Ginni Morgan]

Umm, that looks like a standard two-horned hennin (?) type headdress to
me with a the lady dressed in a houpelande.  With a ruffle edged veil
pinned between the horns and plain edged on the back side?  I would
guess that the interesting things on the ruffled veil are broaches or
veil pins with dangly bits.  So wouldn't it be the same as the French
and English versions?  It doesn't look particularly Irish to me.  

Margaret died in 1542, so this effigy is very anachronistic.  She was
the daughter of the Earl of Kildare who was Lord Deputy of Ireland for
five consecutive English kings ending with Henry VIII.  She appears to
have had close ties to the English court.  Therefore, the anachronistic
appearance of her effigy would appear to be deliberate.  Certainly, I
don't think a high-ranking Irish noblewoman of the early to mid 1500s is
going to be wearing a houpelande and hennin when her husband is a cousin
to Thomas Boleyn and when Henry VIII himself suggested her son as a
prospective bridegroom for his cousin Anne Boleyn.

Just my thoughts after a quick view of the effigy and a check on
Wikipedia for info on Margaret.  Tuppence only.

Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym
(Ginni Morgan)

 Guenievre de Monmarche guenie...@erminespot.com 6/20/11 11:58 AM

For those, like me, who had to go look it up, an image of the headdress
is here:
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/2262/25836/1/ertk1721.jpg 

Guenièvre


On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Regina Lawson
reginalaws...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am reproducing the ensemble from the Margaret Fitzgerald tomb
effigy, in
 St. Canice's Cathedral, Kilkenny, Ireland.  The headdress is the
Irish
 version of the heart shaped headdress.  Any and all advice regarding
 construction or application (kputting it on) would be greatly
appreciated.
 I have some ideas, but no practical experience with the style.

 Thanks, all.

 Ever,
 Regina in L.A.
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Re: [h-cost] historical stuff (some costume related)

[Ginni Morgan]

Denise

What part of Iowa do you live in?  I 'm interested in some of your material.  
The recommendation to scan the photos should be expanded to scan everything 
you can run through a scanner.  In other words, do all the documents, as well. 
 Oh, and take photographs of any objects.  Even old milk cans and eggbeaters 
are interesting to some of us.  ;)

Also, the library and archives of the State Historical Society in Des Moines 
maintains an archive of papers, pictures, etc.  I've dug into their materials 
every time I've gone back to Iowa to do research.  The Historical Society also 
maintains a museum in the same complex.

Contact information:

State of Iowa Historical Museum
State of Iowa Historical Building (Des Moines)
600 East Locust 
Des Moines, Iowa, 50319
515-281-5111

State Historical Museum
9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Tuesday - Saturday
Noon - 4:30 p.m. Sunday
Closed Monday and official state holidays
Admission is free

State Historical Society Library and Archives
12:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Tuesday - Friday
9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m.Saturday
Closed Sunday, Monday and official state holidays and on any Saturday which 
precedes a Monday or follows a Friday holiday.

Archives, photograph, and manuscript collections are closed Saturdays, unless 
arrangements are made in advance. Arrangements can be made to use archival 
material on Saturdays by requesting the needed material from an archives staff 
member prior to noon on the preceding Friday.

The Iowa Museum Store
9 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. Tuesday-Saturday
Closed Sunday, Monday and official state holidays


Ginni Morgan
Iowan by birth (with relatives darn near everywhere)
costumer, genealogist, historical researcher



 Land of Oz lando...@netins.net 4/27/11 12:09 PM 
I inherited a crapton of stuff from my grandmother's house.  It's been 
stored dry, but not clean, in my brother's barn for about 10 years until I 
brought it home last weekend. There was a lot more than I brought, but I try 
not to think about that.

The only interesting textiles I've found so far are a veil/scarf of some 
kind - extremely fine black lace. It was wadded up in a wood box (like for 
cigars, only it says candy on the lid) and a bag of hexagon quilt pieces 
that I haven't looked at closely.  I don't know if the lace is nylon or silk 
- it weighs next to nothing and is fairly fragile. it's about 15 x 50 or 
so and looks like it would have been for church or funerals.  Oh - and a 
tanned mink skin in a breadbag.

The photos, however are a treasure. I have one large rubbermaid tote full of 
albums going back to the 1870s - most of the people are identified, and 
there is at least one photo of a child in a coffin.  O.o  There aren't too 
many dates on the actual photos, however. There is a story inscribed on the 
flyleaf about how that album was the only thing rescued from a house fire 
when the dad broke a window from outside and reached in to get it off a 
bookstand.

There are two books inscribed to my grandfather in 1919 several years before 
he graduated highschool. Both are military in nature and full of 
photographs. I've looked them up on Amazon and they all seem to be in the 
same condition as mine and are priced from $9 to $900.   lol  There are some 
great photos of military uniforms of all kinds, and everyday wear of people 
in Croatia, England and Germany (and prob. others).

I also have my great grandfather's wood bound school slate and another one 
from someone with the same last name (sibling?) and a tiny pair of leather 
baby shoes with my dad's name on the bottom.

What does a person do with this kind of stuff?  I don't have infinite 
storage. My brother kept it all, but didn't do anything with it either. I 
doubt much of it has a lot of value to people who aren't related to the 
family in some way.

Denise
Iowa

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Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question

[Ginni Morgan]

There should be no reason why you can't do a separate lining and insert it into 
the dress, blind stitching around the ends of the sleeves and the neck, and 
doing a separate hem for the skirt.  However, if you do this, you need to 
remember to do the sleeves separately and then hand stitch the armhole of the 
main dress lining and the sleeve top lining together and to the outer dress at 
the armscye seam.  I suppose you could sew everything together first and then 
do tacking stitches to hold the sleeve head together, but I personally think 
the other method is easier.

Ginni Morgan

 Franchesca franchesca.ha...@gmail.com 4/18/11 3:41 PM 
Thank you Robin!

You are correct about the fit, they belonged to a bustier lady than I. I
will put them on and lay down to see where to alter them. Or is there a
better way to alter them?

I wondered about lining them but the seams are all serged. 

Franchesca 


: -Original Message-
: From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-
: boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Robin Netherton
: Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 12:55 PM
: To: Historical Costume
: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Different kind of modesty question
: 
: On 4/18/2011 12:52 PM, Franchesca wrote:
:  I love wearing cotehardies. However, I sweat under my bosoms when I do
: wear
:  them.
: 
:  Has anyone found a solution, costuming wise, for hiding this or stopping
it
:  from showing through a fitted garment like a cotehardie?
: 
: First thing is to remember that this style was not created in a world
where
: temperatures routinely went into (or past) the 70s even at the hottest
time
: of
: year. Plus, best evidence suggests that women then were, on average, far
: less
: busty then than they are now. (I do watch for and collect images of very
: busty women in these dresses, but they are rare.) So the problem is
likely, in
: large part, a modern one. But it's very common for modern re-enactors!
: These
: steps may help, costuming-wise:
: 
: 1. When fitting, raise the breasts up. If you lie down while fitting, you
will
: find that the breast mass spreads out and settle closer against your body.
If
: you fit around that shape, tightly enough that the breast mass stays in
that
: position when you stand up, there is less of a crease beneath the
breasts
: to
: get sweaty. Bonus: you also have a much closer-to-period silhouette, with
an
: elevated bustline, and breasts will not bounce or fall out of your
neckline.
: 
: 2. Wear a linen chemise, just loose enough to provide some bulk under the
: bust. You will find it is both absorbent and cool. Bonus: It's authentic.
: 
: 3. Line your dress, ideally with linen or a firmly woven wool. This, too,
will
: help absorb any sweat that makes it through the chemise. And yes, it's
more
: authentic.
: 
: Surprisingly, adding the layers of linen does not make the dress
significantly
: hotter in wear; I've found that if anything, it makes it cooler.
: 
: --Robin
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Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

[Ginni Morgan]

Oh dear!  I guess I should hang onto those crocheted minidresses from my high 
school  college years, then.  They just might be worth something someday soon.

Ginni
Sacramento, CA
ECHS '68

 Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com 2/14/11 1:13 PM 
Oh my, I laughed so hard at the idea of there ever being re-enactment groups
for the era of my childhood!  I'm having trouble coping with the idea of the
70's, 80's and 90's being 'vintage' and collectible.  Still, I wish I had
hung on to some pieces from back then.  

And if we can re-enact the Middle Ages or the Civil War, well...why not?

Laurie T.

Phoenix

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Land of Oz
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

but soon to be!

I recently found a book called The Illustrated Hassle-free Make Your Own 
Clothes Book by Rosonberg and Weiner published by Bantam.

I ordered it sight-unseen, so it's not exactly what I thought it was going 
to be, but it's proven to be an interesting glimpse into the recent past of 
clothing/costuming. It was published in 1971 and the introduction is full of

hippie phrasing like my old man groovy fairly heavy cat funkiness 
up-tightness and even the f-bomb.

I read the introduction aloud to my mother (who was a 31 year old 
tailor/seamstress in 1971 but definitely in the Channel and Pearls camp 
rather than the counter-culture group) and we both thought it was hilarious.

 We both noted that in just a few more decades most people won't be able to 
correctly interpret such phrases as he was a fairly heavy cat  lol!  My 
mother also reminded me of several older-than-me friends of the family I had

admired growing up who were into making mu'umu'u from flowered bed sheets, 
and using wildly contrasting fabric to insert large wedges into the pant's 
legs of their jeans. (I was, of course, forbidden to do any such thing!)

Will there someday be reinactment groups for the late 60s to 70s?  :-)  This

book may prove to be a valuable reference!

Denise B
Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

[Ginni Morgan]

Ahh, but if I lost just a few more pounds I could probably get back into them 
and wear them for Halloween next year.  ;)  BTW, is that Lincoln High in 
Stockton you're referring to?

Ginni

 Lynn Downward lynndownw...@gmail.com 2/14/11 1:30 PM 
Probably not too soon.
LynnD
San Francisco, CA
Lincoln High, Class of '69
We're so cool, we're so fine/We're the Class of '69

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.govwrote:

 Oh dear!  I guess I should hang onto those crocheted minidresses from my
 high school  college years, then.  They just might be worth something
 someday soon.

 Ginni
 Sacramento, CA
 ECHS '68

  Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com 2/14/11 1:13 PM 
  Oh my, I laughed so hard at the idea of there ever being re-enactment
 groups
 for the era of my childhood!  I'm having trouble coping with the idea of
 the
 70's, 80's and 90's being 'vintage' and collectible.  Still, I wish I had
 hung on to some pieces from back then.

 And if we can re-enact the Middle Ages or the Civil War, well...why not?

 Laurie T.

 Phoenix

 -Original Message-
 From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
 Behalf Of Land of Oz
 Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39 PM
 To: Historical Costume
 Subject: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

 but soon to be!

 I recently found a book called The Illustrated Hassle-free Make Your Own
 Clothes Book by Rosonberg and Weiner published by Bantam.

 I ordered it sight-unseen, so it's not exactly what I thought it was going
 to be, but it's proven to be an interesting glimpse into the recent past of
 clothing/costuming. It was published in 1971 and the introduction is full
 of

 hippie phrasing like my old man groovy fairly heavy cat funkiness
 up-tightness and even the f-bomb.

 I read the introduction aloud to my mother (who was a 31 year old
 tailor/seamstress in 1971 but definitely in the Channel and Pearls camp
 rather than the counter-culture group) and we both thought it was
 hilarious.

  We both noted that in just a few more decades most people won't be able to
 correctly interpret such phrases as he was a fairly heavy cat  lol!  My
 mother also reminded me of several older-than-me friends of the family I
 had

 admired growing up who were into making mu'umu'u from flowered bed sheets,
 and using wildly contrasting fabric to insert large wedges into the pant's
 legs of their jeans. (I was, of course, forbidden to do any such thing!)

 Will there someday be reinactment groups for the late 60s to 70s?  :-)
  This

 book may prove to be a valuable reference!

 Denise B
 Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...

[Ginni Morgan]

Ah, just wondered.  If I remember correctly, my ex-husband graduated from 
Lincoln in Stockton in 1969.  I thought it was too much of a coincidence.  You 
must have had a VERY interesting high school experience!  ;)

Ginni

 Lynn Downward lynndownw...@gmail.com 2/14/11 3:33 PM 
No, Lincoln High in San Francisco, built in the 1920s, at the top of the
hill that is the Sunset District.

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.govwrote:

 Ahh, but if I lost just a few more pounds I could probably get back into
 them and wear them for Halloween next year.  ;)  BTW, is that Lincoln High
 in Stockton you're referring to?

 Ginni

  Lynn Downward lynndownw...@gmail.com 2/14/11 1:30 PM 
  Probably not too soon.
 LynnD
 San Francisco, CA
 Lincoln High, Class of '69
 We're so cool, we're so fine/We're the Class of '69

 On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 1:22 PM, Ginni Morgan ginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov 
 wrote:

  Oh dear!  I guess I should hang onto those crocheted minidresses from my
  high school  college years, then.  They just might be worth something
  someday soon.
 
  Ginni
  Sacramento, CA
  ECHS '68
 
   Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com 2/14/11 1:13 PM 
   Oh my, I laughed so hard at the idea of there ever being re-enactment
  groups
  for the era of my childhood!  I'm having trouble coping with the idea of
  the
  70's, 80's and 90's being 'vintage' and collectible.  Still, I wish I had
  hung on to some pieces from back then.
 
  And if we can re-enact the Middle Ages or the Civil War, well...why not?
 
  Laurie T.
 
  Phoenix
 
  -Original Message-
  From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] 
 On
  Behalf Of Land of Oz
  Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 1:39 PM
  To: Historical Costume
  Subject: [h-cost] not ancient hist. costume...
 
  but soon to be!
 
  I recently found a book called The Illustrated Hassle-free Make Your Own
  Clothes Book by Rosonberg and Weiner published by Bantam.
 
  I ordered it sight-unseen, so it's not exactly what I thought it was
 going
  to be, but it's proven to be an interesting glimpse into the recent past
 of
  clothing/costuming. It was published in 1971 and the introduction is full
  of
 
  hippie phrasing like my old man groovy fairly heavy cat funkiness
  up-tightness and even the f-bomb.
 
  I read the introduction aloud to my mother (who was a 31 year old
  tailor/seamstress in 1971 but definitely in the Channel and Pearls camp
  rather than the counter-culture group) and we both thought it was
  hilarious.
 
   We both noted that in just a few more decades most people won't be able
 to
  correctly interpret such phrases as he was a fairly heavy cat  lol!  My
  mother also reminded me of several older-than-me friends of the family I
  had
 
  admired growing up who were into making mu'umu'u from flowered bed
 sheets,
  and using wildly contrasting fabric to insert large wedges into the
 pant's
  legs of their jeans. (I was, of course, forbidden to do any such thing!)
 
  Will there someday be reinactment groups for the late 60s to 70s?  :-)
   This
 
  book may prove to be a valuable reference!
 
  Denise B
  Iowa
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  http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume 
 
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 use
  of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or
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  Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
  recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
  communication.
 
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Re: [h-cost] Historical Wedding Dresses, Iowa

[Ginni Morgan]

Are you referring to the campus at Ames, IA?  I'm under the impression that 
there are several ISU campuses around the state.  

Ginni M
California

 Land of Oz lando...@netins.net 1/30/11 1:13 PM 
There is an exhibit on historical wedding dresses at the Textiles and 
Clothing Museum on campus at Iowa State University.  It is a small exhibit, 
but very nicely done. The stories of the dress in context are included with 
a description of the dress details.

They also have a group page on Facebook for any of you so inclined.

Mary Alice Gallery, 1015 Morrill Hall, Iowa State University campus
Weddings in the Heartland: Apparel, Traditions, Memories

Denise B
Iowa
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Re: [h-cost] What book do you want to see in your Christmas stocking?

[Ginni Morgan]

Kimiko

The Herald book didn't cost that much when it was first published, but
the once it went out of print, OH MY!  It really is a wonderful book and
is probably worth every penny it commands on the aftermarket.  I know
that I read it through completely every couple of years or so.  I just
wish someone would reprint the entire series.

Ginni Morgan

 Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com 12/13/10 2:22 PM 
Thank you Sunny for the great book suggestions. That last one I hadn't
heard of, 
so it went directly into my wish list.I have the Leisch book, but  I
need to get 
it out and actually read the book, so thanks for the reminder.

The high priced out of print Italian books are on my ILL someday when I
get 
serious list. I actually had a copy of the Herald book in my hand at an
SCA 
event, for only a few hundred dollars... and put it down. Another
person 
snatched it up before I came back to buy it. I guess it wasn't meant
for me to 
own, as I really can't afford a few hundred for a book, but it was
interesting 
to read parts of it. And it was so tiny a book, too. I seriously don't

understand how folks price used books so high like this, but if folks
are 
willing to pay...

Kimiko Small
http://www.kimiko1.com 
Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi


The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern
http://www.margospatterns.com/ 





From: Sunshine Buchler sunny_buch...@sbcglobal.net
To: h-cost...@indra.com 
Sent: Mon, December 13, 2010 8:56:41 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] What book do you want to see in your Christmas
stocking?

Hi Kimiko!
 
 The time frames I am looking at are 1450-1500 Italy, and
various 
aspects of the 

 Victorian/Civil War era, in case folks have book suggestions
for 
those.

 
If you’re interested in Civil War day wear, I gotta recommend _Who
Wore What?: 
Women’s Wear 1861-1865_ by Juanita Leisch 
http://www.amazon.com/Who-Wore-What-Womens-1861-1865/dp/0939631814/ref=sr_1_1?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1292258190sr=1-1


It’s a study of dress in carte de viste
 
 
For 1450-1500 the best books in English (imo) are sadly long
out-of-print and 
unconscionably expensive: 

_Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500_ by Jacqueline Herald
_Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500_ by Elizabeth Birbari 
 
On the more attainable side there is: 
_Virtue and Beauty: Leonardo’s Ginevra de’ Benci and Renaissance
Portraits of 
Women_ edited by David Alan Brown. 

http://www.amazon.com/Virtue-Beauty-Leonardos-Renaissance-Portraits/dp/0691114560/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1292258884sr=1-12-spell


This is mostly an art book (with beautiful pictures from your period of

interest) but there is one chapter dealing directly with clothing. 

 
_The Dress of the Venetians, 1495-1525_ by Stella Mary Newton. This is
very much 

an academic text book with few pictures (rather like Maria Howard’s
_Rich 
Apparel_ ) I haven’t found it all that useful for my Italian
costuming, but it 
is an interesting read.
 
Enjoy!
-sunny
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Re: [h-cost] 17th c. blue jeans

[Ginni Morgan]

Or, the fabric could very well be both linen and wool as in linsey woolsey 
which has a linen warp and a wool weft often in different colors.

 Chris Laning clan...@igc.org 11/28/10 10:42 AM 

On Nov 28, 2010, at 10:30 AM, albert...@aol.com wrote:

 Of course, what is this fabric we call denim? A  heavy-ish cotton  
 twill dyed indigo. It seems quite logical that an old and common  
 weave used with a old and common dye would come up sooner than later.

True.

I think the other major distinguishing characteristic of what we call  
denim is that it has colored threads in one direction and white  
threads in the other. Offhand I don't know which is warp and which is  
weft, though. Anyone?

And of course paintings can't tell us what fibers were used for this  
very jeans-like material. The fabric in the paintings could well have  
been either linen (which takes indigo dye pretty well) or wool (which  
you'd expect for outer garments). Although cotton certainly existed  
and was used (especially in Italy) I'd want to find out more about  
_how_ cotton was used before I'd conclude that this is identical to  
modern denim. Cotton thread strong enough to use for weaving is a  
different thing than cotton batting used for stuffing (for which I  
think we have better pre-1800s documentation).



OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California
+ http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com 




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Re: [h-cost] Opinions on Manesse Codex diagonal stripes

[Ginni Morgan]

Heather

I have made a number of tunics on this general pattern, so I took the liberty 
of interpreting the stripes as straight grain.  The artist clearly does 
accurately depict the actual clothing, although I think he does a fair job of 
giving the general impression of the garments.  However, he paints all of the 
stripes as straight lines with no allowance for draping/wrapping around the 
body.  This includes both the horizontal stripes and the diagonal stripes.

I think the blue panel with red/white stripes is woven although the stripes are 
painted horizontal to the page and not to the person they are clothing.  The 
horizontal stripes in the yellow/red tunic and the green/white tunic clearly 
carry over from the body onto the arm without allowing for the fact that the 
fabric on the lower arm would have been on the same stripe as the shoulder (in 
wide fabric), or else it would be horizontal to the arm itself (narrower fabric 
with separate sleeve pieces).  They could be either pieced alternating strips 
of straight grain cloth or a woven cloth with wide weft faced stripes.  

In the case of the red/gray chevron panel and the green/red diagonal panel, I 
think these are straight grain strips of cloth appliqued on the diagonal to the 
base fabric (cut on the straight).  The chevrons would be pieced with either 
mitered corners or the straight grain and the diagonal stripes could be worked 
as single solid pieces.  I've done something similar with diagonal neck yokes 
on tunics, particularly where I wanted to take advantage of a stripe in the 
fabric to create a diamond pattern.  The white/pink chevrons above could be 
painted, printed, woven as brocade, or pieced and appliqued.

In summary, I think the artist was depicting actual clothing that can be 
reproduced, but doing so within the artistic conventions of his time.  
Actually, if I can find some of that copious spare time I supposedly have, I 
think I'll try to reproduce a couple of the tunics this winter.  After all, I 
need new garb.  I'll let you know what I come up with.

Ginni
(Gwenhwyfaer)

 Heather Rose Jones heather.jo...@earthlink.net 10/20/10 9:47 PM 
With the caveats that artistic representations aren't always intended to 
represent actual clothing construction, and that representations of clothing 
decoration are sometimes intended to convey symbolism rather than fabric 
structures, and that there are multiple ways to create any particular 
decorative effect in fabric ...

What are people's thoughts on the garments depicted in the early 14th c. 
Manesse Codex that have diagonal striped designs?  Woven as diagonal stripes?  
Print?  Woven as straight-grain stripes and cut on the bias?  Symbolic 
interpretation of armorial designs not intending to represent actual garments?  
Some other option?

How is a given hypothesis affected by other stripe-like designs in the 
manuscript?  (Primarily horizontal stripes, but also chevron designs.)

Here's a link to an image showing a variety of these designs, just for 
reference.

I'm contemplating the plausibility of the bias cut hypothesis, but I'm failing 
to convince myself, given that the reasoning that would support it would also 
conclude that the diagonal-stripe and horizontal-stripe garments in the 
manuscript represent two entirely different ways of cutting garments that are 
otherwise identical in depiction.

Heather
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Re: [h-cost] Fingerloop braiding

[Ginni Morgan]

Thanks Chris.  How very interesting!  I haven't done plastic cording weaving 
since I was in Brownies lo those many, many, many years ago.  ;)  I didn't 
know it still existed, much less had a name.  It was just what you put your 
latchkey on when you went to school.  Thanks for the url.  I've bookmarked it 
for future reference.

However, that wasn't what I was referring to when I mentioned doing lucet work 
on your fingers instead of a lucet tool.  I have a lady in my camp who uses her 
thumb and forefinger exactly most people would use a two prong lucet tool.  She 
produces very lovely lucet cord without needing anything but whatever string or 
ribbon she wants to make the cord out of.  I'll see if I can find a picture of 
her doing it and post it.

Ginni / Gwenhwyfaer

 Chris Laning clan...@igc.org 10/14/10 11:38 AM 

On Oct 14, 2010, at 11:07 AM, Rachael Watcher wrote:

 Humm, fascinating.  I never used one of the tools shown for finger  
 braiding
 work.  Just stuffed a loop into the existing loop then tightened.   
 Rinse and
 repeat.


I think I know what you're talking about -- is it this?
http://www.boondoggleman.com/prj_butterfly_stitch.htm 

I'm happy to discover the term butterfly stitch for this, BTW,  
because I've never known what to call it.

The problem here is that there are certainly many techniques that  
involve loops, and fingers, and produce a braid, that can be done  
without tools.

Some -- but not all of them -- are what is now being called  
fingerloop braiding here. This is a technical term that was invented  
in the late 20th century to label a particular set of techniques like  
what Ginni was describing, involving loops held on the fingers (or if  
you're Japanese, across the palms of your hands) and passed through  
each other without tightening.

I've seen butterfly stitch called fingerloop braiding, and it's kind  
of problematic, because it does involve fingers, loops and  braiding.  
But it isn't really fingerloop braiding in the technical sense.

http://fingerloop.org has lots of material on what's now being called  
fingerloop braiding.



OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California
+ http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com 




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[h-cost] Lucets v. Fingerloop braiding (was Re: I found my way back!)

[Ginni Morgan]

Hello everyone~

Disclaimer:  I haven't seen the picture mentioned.  This message is based 
simply on the use of the word lucet in conjunction with fingerloop 
braiding.  

Just a word of caution here.  Fingerloop braiding is NOT done on a lucet.  
While both produce very nice cordage, they are entirely different techniques 
and are entirely unrelated to each other.  There are advantages and 
disadvantages to each.  

Lucet cords are produced on a lucet (2 pronged tool for making loops).  Most 
lucet work uses one (1) string to create its cord in a manner somewhat 
reminiscent of crotchet (pull a loop through a previous loop - turn tool - 
repeat).  This creates a series of connected loops.  There are double lucets (4 
points) on which you can use two (2) different strings to create bi-colored 
cords.  However, you are limited to either one or two strings as your working 
threads and only one person does the working.  Lucet work can be carried in 
your basket or pouch anywhere you want to go, and can even be done while you 
are walking there.  You can add in string at the end of your cord and keep 
working for longer pieces.  However, you are limited to one type of cord with 
an alternate possibility of bicolored cords if you want to use a double lucet.  
BTW, you can use your thumb and forefinger instead of a lucet tool.  All you 
really need is string.

Fingerloop braids are done on the fingers with multiple long loops of string 
whose opposite ends secured to a fixed point.  No other tools are used.  In 
fingerloop braiding, you work with anywhere from five (5) to twenty one (21) 
separate loops of string and one (1) to three (3) people doing the braiding.  
The cord is produced by interlacing the strings in various ways including 
pulling loops through each other.  However, at no time do you create a new 
loop.  You start with a set number of loops, manipulate them, and end with the 
same exact loops you started with.  Fingerloop braiding has many different 
patterns, sizes and uses.  However, its length is determined by the initial 
length of the loops you cut and it requires a fixed point against which to 
work.  And if you make the loops longer than your arm, you will need someone to 
carry the shed to the far end of the cord until you reach a point where spread 
of your arms is wider than the length of loops remaining to be braid!
 ed.

Please pardon the lecture.  I'm preparing to teach a class on fingerloop 
braiding and many of my friends do lucet work.  If anyone finds errors in the 
above, please let me know.  This was written entirely off the top of my head as 
I am at work without my reference materials.

Ginni Morgan
(Gwenhwyfaer ferch Gwilym)



 penny1a penn...@costumegallery.com 10/12/10 10:06 PM 
Thank you Sandy!  I am so glad to know the name of the tool.  My little
grand-daughter is very crafty.  I want to give her one for Christmas.  She
loves crocheting and braiding.

Penny Ladnier
Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites
www.costumegallery.com 
14 websites of fashion, textiles,  costume history

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Re: [h-cost] may be OT: Help selecting a book

[Ginni Morgan]

Julie

My vote is for Tak V Bowes.  These are the clearest, easiest to learn from 
instructions for fingerloop braiding that I've come across so far.  This is one 
book where I think you should have a new/good copy in your library and a second 
copy in your workroom.  I bought the book as soon as it came out a few years 
ago and I love it.  I will probably buy a second copy soon.  I highly recommend 
it.  

The book is self-published by someone I think may be on this list.  I recommend 
buying a new copy and supporting the author.  I believe we should encourage 
those among us who have knowledge, talents and skills to take the chance and 
publish their collected wisdom and information in formats the rest of us can 
enjoy and use well into the future.  

Ginni Morgan
(Gwenhwyfaer)


 Julie jtkn...@jtknits.cts.com 8/11/10 12:28 PM 
Hi all

I have some birthday money and I'm debating between buying Tak V Bowes Departed 
(fingerloop braiding) and Jaqui Carey's book on Sweet Bags.  What do you think? 
 I think both are under my $100 limit, even with the pound to dollar conversion 
rate plus shipping.

Julie

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Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit OT

[Ginni Morgan]

Christian

Contact Ed Caughie (Master Edward le Kervere ).  I think he's the current Grand 
Master of the Lodge in Woodland.  Whether he is or isn't at present, he has 
been in the past and he's very active in Masons.  I'm sure he'll be happy to 
help you.

Gwenhwyfaer

 Chris Laning clan...@igc.org 7/21/10 7:58 AM 
My family has a Masonic apron and sword that belonged to my great- 
great-grandfather (who was born in 1819). None of us are Masons, and  
we would eventually like to donate these to a museum or Masonic  
collection that would appreciate them. Anyone have suggestions for who  
to contact about finding them a good home?



OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California
+ http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com 




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Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..

[Ginni Morgan]

Kate~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Freemasonry   (with supporting
citations) says that 

Mozart was admitted as an apprentice to the Viennese Masonic lodge
called Zur Wohltätigkeit (Beneficence) on 14 December 1784.[1] He
was promoted to journeyman Mason on 7 January 1785, and became a master
Mason shortly thereafter.[1] Mozart also attended the meetings of
another lodge, called Zur wahren Eintracht (True Concord). According
to Otto Erich Deutsch, this lodge was the largest and most aristocratic
in Vienna. ... Mozart, as the best of the musical 'Brothers,' was
welcome in all the lodges. It was headed by the naturalist Ignaz von
Born.[2]

Mozart's own lodge Zur Wohltätigkeit was consolidated with two others
in December of 1785, under the Imperial reform of Masonry (the
Freimaurerpatent, Masonic Decree) of 11 December 1785, and thus Mozart
came to belong to the lodge called Zur Neugekrönten Hoffnung (New
Crowned Hope).[3]

At least as far as surviving Masonic documents can tell us, Mozart was
well regarded by his fellow Masons. Many of his friends were Masons.

[1][3] Solomon, Maynard (1995) Mozart: A Life. Harper Collins 
[2]  Deutsch, Otto Erich (1965) Mozart: A Documentary Biography.
Stanford: Stanford University Press

 Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu 7/21/10 1:21 PM 
Thank you, Ron. I had found some images but your information was good.
I had decided to use the pillars and compass and seeing eye on all three
of them and to use the rounded bottom look as well. Your information
seems to confirm my conjecture that the individual aprons could easily
have been different, and it seems that, indeed, they were not yet
regulated in 1780-1790.
Is there one (or more) symbol(s) that would indicate a Master or
journeyman or apprentice.  I don't know what Mozart was, but the play
has him being a relatively new brother, while the other two characters
are a bit older.


Kate Pinner

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com]
On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:20 AM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..

These are modern aprons and wearing the offices on the aprons is very
modern.  Masons used to wear their own aprons, which makes wearing your
jewel on the apron difficult as these positions can change
frequently.
Most members of a lodge are not the officers.  Some of the aprons shown
on the page are specifically for appendant bodies most of which did not
exist during Mozart's life.  Templar for instance, which is an appendant
body and not a officer of a lodge.  Most of the modern rites are also
just that modern.  The only degrees you should really concern yourself
with are the three of craft masonry.

   Many period aprons are very busy with lots of symbolism on them,
they are just as likely to be silk as they are to be lambskin, the
traditional material.  They were sometimes plain white, but they were
just as often painted, embroidered, printed.  They very commonly had
ribbon ruching on the edges or fringe.  They often were not square, like
they commonly are today.
Both of my reproduction ones for that reason have rounded bottoms as
will my next one. (I have five Aprons)

Here are some more historic apron styles:

This first is a modern maker of repro aprons.
http://www.craftsmansapron.com/custom-aprons.php 

These tend to be a little late I think for what you are looking at but
they are originals
http://nationalheritagemuseum.typepad.com/library_and_archives/masonic-apron

s/

This page has some limited information on how the modern and period
aprons can vary, with an image of an apron earlier than what you seek.
http://sites.google.com/site/mysticesotericart/about-george-washington-s-apr

on/the-ancient-masonic-aprons


This is supposed to have been Robert Burns'  don't know about that, but
the symbolism on it i
s very common for 18th century aprons.  The pillars
the pavement, the sun and moon compasses and level etc..
http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR;

screen=lotdetailsNoFlashiSaleItemNo=4361005iSaleNo=17616iSaleSectionNo=1

This is an apron that was Belonged to burns.  It does show a level and
a plumb which are the jewels of the Master of the Lodge as well as the
Senior Warden, not two offices that are held by the same man at the same
time!
These are also however some of the working tools of a Fellowcraft and
this does appear to be a Fellowcraft apron.  That is one of the three
degrees (or sometime four in Britain) of craft masonry.
http://burns.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-027-122-C 

Here is a French 18th century apron.  Many of the French aprons I have
seen are far more artsy than the British and American ones.  I am not
certain that I have seen a Viennese apron.
http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/77755/Apron_of_a_Master_18th_century




This link is from the premier research lodge.  It has some links to
various 

Re: [h-cost] Anyone familiar with these books on 15th-century braiding?

[Ginni Morgan]

I purchased Tak v bowes departed last year and am trying to work my way 
through the patterns.  The explanations are very good and the patterns are easy 
to follow, although many of them require two people to handle all the loops.  
Several of the patterns are quite easy to make.  I've spent the last year 
practicing the easy ones and trying to build up the courage to move on to the 
more complex structures.  Of course, I also need to find a partner to work with.

I've never seen the other books mentioned.  However, based on the writing in 
Take v bowes departed, I would be willing to part with the money to buy them 
and I'm sure they're well done.  Elizabeth Benns published an article in 
Medieval Clothing and Textiles 3 based on Harley 2320 manuscript (Set on 
Yowre Hondys: Fifteenth-Century Instructions for Fingerloop Braiding).  At 
that time, she mentioned the book they were working on.  I grabbed it as soon 
as I saw it.  I will probably buy several more copies for backup and for gifts. 
 Now that I know about the pamphlets, I will be buying them as well.

Ginni Morgan



 Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com 1/27/10 6:40 PM 
http://www.et-tu.com/whp/nonfiction.htm 

Fran
Lavolta Press
Books on historic clothing
http://www.lavoltapress.com 
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Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

[Ginni Morgan]

Fran

Could you please send me the links for the linen velvet?  I'm very interested 
in it.

Ginni Morgan
Sacramento, CA

 Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com 1/19/10 12:48 PM 
Great. That's what I wanted to know. That would be a nice fabric for 
1880s and 1920s, when some Renaissance-inspired fabrics were used.

I refrained from listing links I found to some linen velvets because 
they were all sofa weight. Has anyone ever seen a linen velvet woven for 
clothing?

Fran
Lavolta Press
http://www.lavoltapress.com 


On 1/19/2010 12:41 PM, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I've handled that fabric. It's medium-ish, not super heavy. I don't think it 
 was meant for, say, drapes, at least not without a backing.


 Claudine



 - Original Message 
 From: Lavolta Pressf...@lavoltapress.com
 To: Historical Costumeh-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 12:36:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

 I'm quite taken with the olive green embossed velveteen. Anyone know how
 heavy it is?

 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 http://www.lavoltapress.com 

 On 1/19/2010 12:25 PM, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Renaissance Fabrics (online only) regularly carries cotton velveteen:



 Of course, colors are limited, but if you want something specific, send 
 owner
 Diana an email, she might be able to find it for you.



 Claudine

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Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

[Ginni Morgan]

I'm pretty sure that their velvet is either rayon or silk and rayon.  I checked 
last year.  But it may have changed since then.  You never know.

Ginni

 Sharon Collier sha...@collierfam.com 1/19/10 2:09 PM 
Another place you all might try is Dharma Trading in Berkley, CA. I know
they sell white silk and velvet for dyeing (as that is their main thing) 

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 11:38 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

Dawn,

Joann's and Hancock are not exactly known for quality merchandise, and I
have no idea about Hobby Lobby. Its name suggests not much.

I'd go online to look. The last cotton velvet I found was (improbably) at
Wal-Mart in the 1990s. I bought all I could in 3 colors. it's still ripening
for a project ;)

 == Marjorie Wilser (who doesn't shop Wal-Mart any more)

=:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:=

Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW

http://3toad.blogspot.com/ 




On Jan 18, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Dawn wrote:

 I had a most disappointing shopping trip today. I was searching for a 
 nice blue-green cotton velvet and was surprised at the lack of 
 options. I went to Hancock's first, they had NO fashion velvet of any 
 kind. They had 3 rolls of upholstery velvet, nice stuff, in black, 
 brown and red.

 Hobby Lobby had no upholstery velvet, and cheap acrylic fashion velvet 
 in black, navy and red. I found some medium turquoise on the clearance 
 rack and bought that. It might work, and it was cheap enough.

 Joann's had the requisite cheap acrylic velvet in red and black, and 
 no upholstery velvet. Lots of chenille, no velvet.

 So what is it with velvet these days? The acrylic stuff just gets 
 crappier and crappier and I can't find simple cotton anywhere.



 Dawn

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Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

[Ginni Morgan]

So I discovered.  Whoa, Nelly!  We aren't going there anytime soon.  

 Lavolta Press f...@lavoltapress.com 1/19/10 1:51 PM 
I'd suggest a net search for linen velvet. You will find it. But it is 
incredibly expensive. It makes 100% silk velvet look cheap.

Fran
Lavolta Press
http://www.lavoltapress.com 

On 1/19/2010 1:18 PM, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Ditto. I've never heard of such a thing. Even if it's couch weight, it may be 
 useful for something costume-related.


 Claudine



 - Original Message 
 From: Ginni Morganginni.mor...@doj.ca.gov
 To: Historical Costumeh-cost...@indra.com
 Sent: Tue, January 19, 2010 1:08:01 PM
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] where has all the velvet gone? (rant)

 Fran

 Could you please send me the links for the linen velvet?  I'm very 
 interested in
 it.

 Ginni Morgan
 Sacramento, CA

 Lavolta Press 1/19/10 12:48 PM
 Great. That's what I wanted to know. That would be a nice fabric for
 1880s and 1920s, when some Renaissance-inspired fabrics were used.

 I refrained from listing links I found to some linen velvets because
 they were all sofa weight. Has anyone ever seen a linen velvet woven for
 clothing?

 Fran
 Lavolta Press
 http://www.lavoltapress.com 

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Re: [h-cost] Dye Color

[Ginni Morgan]

I agree.  My immediate thought was a rather orangey yellow.  I still don't 
think that eggs should have a pale yellow yolk.

Ginni Morgan

 landofoz lando...@netins.net 1/15/10 4:51 PM 
   I think unless you had a very large concentration
 of fustic in  relation to the concentration of kermes you'd get orange
 rather than yolk  yellow.




 over-dyeing fustic with even a weak concentration of kermes would give
 yolk yellow.  I agree that orange would be much more likely.



The problem is your comparisons of color are in the wrong time frame!  At 
any time in history, up to maybe 1950 or so, the majority of eggs eaten were 
locally produced from chickens who ate a natural diet supplemented with corn 
or other grains.

As anyone who has bought eggs fresh off the farm from free range chickens 
can tell you -- the yolk is most definitely orange. The pale yellow of 
today's mass-produced grocery store egg is a completely different color.

Denise B
Iowa 

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Re: [h-cost] Herald's Renaissance Dress in Italy

[Ginni Morgan]

It was originally published in 1981.  It most definitely is still in copyright. 
 It's out of print, not out of copyright.  I just wish they would reprint the 
entire series.

Ginni Morgan

 Talia tali...@gmail.com 10/6/09 4:46 PM 
Is it out of copyright? I've got one that if it's out of copyright, I'd scan
it off and email it. If it's still under c-right though, no can do.

Talia

On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:43 PM, Charlene Charette charlene...@gmail.comwrote:

 And the last couple of copies I've found were in the US$2000+ range.
 I've told my friend to guard her copy!

 --Charlene



 On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 6:11 PM,  app...@aol.com wrote:
  Take the Amazon copy. This book lists on abebooks.com for $900 to
  $1300.
 
  Kathleen
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Re: [h-cost] Kimonos, etc.

[Ginni Morgan]

Try contacting John Marshall.  He lives in Covelo, CA.  He's the author of 
MAKE YOUR OWN JAPANESE CLOTHES: Patterns and Ideas for Modern Wear.  I've 
heard him speak and enjoyed his lecture.  His website is 
http://www.johnmarshall.to

There is further contact information for consultations and appraisals at 
http://www.johnmarshall.to/3-12-consultation.htm

Ginni Morgan


 e...@huskers.unl.edu e...@huskers.unl.edu 8/21/09 4:10 PM 
*Especially* in that context, they can't give appraisals. Conflict of interest.

Emma

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of 
Betsy Marshall [be...@softwareinnovation.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:56 PM

Unless she wants to donate them and get a tax deduction?

-Original Message-
From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On
Behalf Of Kim Baird

A museum curator might be able to tell her what she has, but she won't
appraise or value the items. It's against the rules for museums to do that.

Kim
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Re: [h-cost] Seeking an image -- distaff on a hat

[Ginni Morgan]

Robin

Did you check out the Brueghel paintings?  I seem to recall something like you 
originally described as occurring in a crowd scene and for some reason, I seem 
to remember it as being one of the Brueghel paintings.  Could be very wrong on 
that, but that is my memory.

Ginni Morgan

 Robin Netherton ro...@netherton.net 6/12/09 5:15 PM 
Thanks, Anne! It seems, though, that the author I'm working with does need a 
different image -- he's talking specifically about distaffs and the ways they 
may be carried, and in this case the woman herself is actually her own 
distaff, with no physical distaff in sight. I feel certain I've seen the image 
he remembers of the small-distaff-in-the-large-hat, but perhaps I'm mentally 
conflating some of the pictures in Tacuinum Sanitatus, which has lots of women 
carrying distaffs and lots of women carrying things on their heads, but (as 
far as I can tell) no distaffs on the heads.

The Scandinavian image is curious, though, particularly as she also is holding 
a torch in her mouth. That doesn't strike me as a really smart thing to do 
while you have a pile of loose flax on your head. The caption in Ostergard 
says that an archibishop had this image made; I wonder if it was his idea of 
industriousness, but not anything that people actually did. (More than once.)

Way off track now, though.

--Robin


Sigrid Briansdotter wrote:
 
 The woodcut of the woman spinning with the material to be spun up on her head 
 under a band is found in Olaus Magnus' Historia de Gentibus Septentrionalibus 
 as the Illustration for Liber Secvundvs, Cap. XVII. De luminibus,  tedis 
 piceis, which is page 77 in the original version printed in 1555 in Rome. (In 
 English as per the translation by Peter Fisher and Humphrey Higgens published 
 in three volumes by The Hakluyt Society, London first volume publish in 1996 
 as Olaus Magnus - A Description of the Northern Peoples - 1555: Book Two, 
 Chapter Seventeen, On lights, and torches of tar. Page 112 of Volume 1) The 
 woodcut in my facimilie printed in 1972 by Roosenkilde and Bagger, 
 Copenhagen, of the 1555 printing is approximately 2 inches high by 4 inches 
 wide with ornamentals out the left and right sides.
 
 Hope this helps,
 Anne Decker
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Re: [h-cost] Dyeing linen wool blend

[Ginni Morgan]

That was what I thought, as well.  Anyone else out there with a different 
definition of died in the wool?

Ginni

 e...@huskers.unl.edu e...@huskers.unl.edu 4/22/09 1:35 PM 
I'd always thought (and I have no idea where I heard it, I've known it for so 
long, I've never second-guessed it) that dyed in the wool was referring to 
dying the wool fiber before it was spun, as opposed to being yarn-dyed or dyed 
as yardage.

Emma

From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of 
albert...@aol.com [albert...@aol.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 3:33 PM
To: h-cost...@indra.com 
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Dyeing linen wool blend

Your dilemma is interesting. In What Clothes Reveal a linen/wool blend is
 referred to as linsey-woolsey (for obvious reasons) in the 18th century,
and  somewhere they talk about cloth dyed in the wool...where a wool blend
is dyed  and the wool takes the dye more or differently from the other fiber
producing a  textured effect. Assuming the wool takes the dye more, that
would I guess be  dying it for the wool not the other fibers. Very accurate
for the 18th century,  but I'll bet this type of thing goes way back.
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Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

[Ginni Morgan]

If you zoom in on it, you can see that there is clearly a separate supporter 
below the ruff itself.  The supporter has the lower row of pearl clusters 
attached to it, not to the ruff.  The lower pearl clusters do not match up with 
the loops of the ruff, whereas the clusters on top do.  While the single pearls 
at the junctions in the ruff could be either sewn on or on pin heads, the pearl 
clusters around the top of the ruff sure look like they are be sewn on as I 
don't see any trace of pins up there.  Of course, there's no trace of pins in 
the middle either, but in this instance, I would opt for pinheads in the middle 
just for ease of ironing.  If you carefully trace the lines, you'll note that 
the fabric is just one continuous single ruffle which has been pinned twice 
(creating that little box shape) rather than once in the middle.

Ginni Morgan

 Becky Rautine zearti...@hotmail.com 4/13/09 5:32 PM 

Is the stronger white line at the base some kind of support? I wonder how much 
this one weighs!! Beautiful in it's curved shapes but way more than I'd want to 
wear.

Sincerely, Rebecca Rautine


 
 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 09:29:05 +1000
 From: annette.wil...@environment.gov.au 
 To: h-cost...@indra.com 
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] stitching on ruffs [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
 
 Until recently I had thought that the figure-of-eight ruffs were never
 stitched to hold the shape, but last week I found a portrait in a
 current Sotherby's catalogue for a sale of Old Master and early British
 paintings.
 This is the link to the catalogue:
 http://www.sothebys.com/app/paddleReg/paddlereg.do?dispatch=eventDetails 
 event_id=29138
 
 and the particular painting is:
 http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159527660 
 
 The ruff is formed with a lattice effect, intersecting 4 times, and
 there is a pearl at every intersection, with a group of 3 pearls at the
 top and bottom edge. I think the pearls are stitched on, rather than
 representing pin-heads, especially given the groups of pearls at top and
 bottom. It would be a nightmare to reset after washing.
 
 I have never seen anything similar - has anyone else?
 Suzi, is this similar to the one you referred to.
 
 Needless to say I have downloaded it for future reference.
 
 Annette Wilson 
 
 -
 Message: 2
 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:39:41 +0200
 From: Hanna Zickermann h.zickerm...@gmx.de
 Subject: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Message-ID: 200904091839.n39iduov018...@net.indra.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
 
 Hello,
 
 has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the
 outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and
 Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these
 stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs
 are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material.
 Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a
 decorative feature as well and that they are documentable?
 
 Thank you,
 Hanna
 
 
 
 --
 
 Message: 3
 Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 19:55:26 +0100
 From: Suzi Clarke s...@suziclarke.co.uk
 Subject: Re: [h-cost] Stitching on ruffs
 To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com
 Message-ID: 7.0.1.0.2.20090409195249.03cb2...@suziclarke.co.uk
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
 
 At 19:39 09/04/2009, you wrote:
 Hello,
 
 has anyone ever seen a ruff that really had the stitching along the 
 outer edge to keep the 8s in shape? Period Costume for Stage and 
 Screen even suggests embellishing the ruff with beads on top of these 
 stitches, but I feel they are just a theatrical neccessity as the ruffs
 
 are not properly starched and must keep their shapes in nylon material.
 Or is there evidence that these stitches would have been used as a 
 decorative feature as well and that they are documentable?
 
 I have seen pictures of ruffs where the 8s are apparently held
 together, probably with wax (see Janet Arnold). I am sure I also have a
 photo of a ruff held with red beads - I'll have to go and look for that
 though - my library is not next to the computer!
 
 Suzi
 
 
 
 
 
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 If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately 
 by return e-mail and delete all copies. If this e-mail or any attachments 
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Re: [h-cost] Asking for examples of sagging reproductions of Renaissance breeches?

[Ginni Morgan]

I'm at work and can't do an internet search, but IIRC, there are several such 
as you describe illustrated in some of the Brueghel wedding and holiday 
celebration paintings, Peasant Wedding, Wedding in a Barn and Summer in 
particular.  These are middle and lower class people, not the nobility.  The 
sagging seems be as a result of large prosperous bellies and not a fashion 
statement. Also, while there are visible points painted in, in a number of 
instances they are not tied through the matching holes in the doublets or the 
doublets are left off.  This would also contribute to sagging. These might 
give you an idea of what was happening, at least in the Netherlands.  

Also, there is some evidence that something along the line of suspenders 
started to be used very late.  My guess would be that if you didn't have a 
small waist and hips on which to suspend your pants, then once you stopped 
attaching your breeches to your doublets, you needed something else to hang 
them from, i.e. suspenders.  And the coats/doublets got bigger and bigger.  At 
least that's my interpretation of trends in late 16th and early to mid 17th 
century mens' clothing.

Ginni Morgan

 Tiberius Clausewitz l_clausew...@yahoo.com 3/27/09 5:36 AM 

Some pages giving advice on Renaissance historical costuming--like one of 
Kimiko's pages on costume myths ( 
http://www.kimiko1.com/research-16th/CostumeMythsWS/myth04.html )--take great 
pains to show that Renaissance breeches were worn on the waist rather than 
slung low on the hips. Of course I'm convinced because I've never seen an 
actual historical example or illustration of a sagging fit, not to mention 
that I (perhaps rather unusually for men in their twenties) always wear my 
modern trousers on the waist. But now I'm curious about how the wrong sagging 
fit would look on reproductions of Renaissance breeches, because I've never 
seen it in person either; so can anybody refer me to a photograph or 
illustration that shows such a fit?

Thanks beforehand for any answers--or none. I know it's not exactly the kind of 
thing that a good costumer would like to document.


  
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Re: [h-cost] Question on 16th cent smocks/camiciae - additional information

[Ginni Morgan]

In the meantime, I looked at the one photograph she gave me and it
appears that the garment has a yoke with a square neck and a slit
opening on the back side.  The yoke is fully lined with the seam turned
to the inside and what appears to be a line of topstitching worked along
the edge just inside the neckline.  I would guess the topstitching is
only about a * or less from the edge.  There is a band of blackwork
(about 1 wide) that runs completely around the neck and does not show
through on the facing.  The sleeves have three bands of blackwork
running the length of each sleeve.


Ginni


 Frank A Thallas Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/13/08 1:24 PM 
Has anyone on the list laid hands on an extant 16th-century
square-necked
ladies' smock?  If so, can you tell me how the neck is finished? 
Facing?
Applied needlework? Rolled hem?  Someone asked me, and I suddenly
realized I
have no basis in fact for how I do mine...

Liadain

THL Liadain ni Mhordha OFO
 You get a wonderful view from the point of no return...
wildernesse, the Outlands 
http://practical-blackwork.blogspot.com 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/liadains_fancies 


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Re: [h-cost] Question on 16th cent smocks/camiciae -additionalinformation

[Ginni Morgan]

The shift is part of the Filmer Collection at Platt Hall in Manchester.  You 
can go online at http://www.manchestergalleries.org/the-collections  and search 
the collection.  You need to specify costume in the main section and linen 
(for material) and shift (for item type) in the detailed search.  That will 
pull of a page on which this particular shift appears.  It is dated to 
1560-1580.

Ginni

 Frank A Thallas Jr [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/13/08 3:41 PM 
Kewl!  So far I haven't gone off the historical path with mine, unless
this one hnas been re-worked at some point (though I'm sure museum would
note that.)  Why the slit, I wonder?  In the neckline?  Is the neck smaller
that we would expect, or about what we see in portraits?  And BTW, do you
know the approximate year of this smock?

  Thanks for sharing!

Liadain
Gonna start saving up for that trip to England...

THL Liadain ni Mhordha OFO
 You get a wonderful view from the point of no return...
wildernesse, the Outlands 
http://practical-blackwork.blogspot.com 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/liadains_fancies 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ginni Morgan
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 2:31 PM
To: 'Historical Costume'
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Question on 16th cent smocks/camiciae -
additionalinformation

In the meantime, I looked at the one photograph she gave me and it
appears that the garment has a yoke with a square neck and a slit
opening on the back side.  The yoke is fully lined with the seam turned
to the inside and what appears to be a line of topstitching worked along
the edge just inside the neckline.  I would guess the topstitching is
only about a * or less from the edge.  There is a band of blackwork
(about 1 wide) that runs completely around the neck and does not show
through on the facing.  The sleeves have three bands of blackwork
running the length of each sleeve.


Ginni



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Re: [h-cost] Upcoming lecture plans: Ohio and L.A.

[Ginni Morgan]

Drat it!  I can't afford to travel very far.  Even Southern California is 
probably outside my budget for the forseeable future.  Will you be doing 
anything in Northern California in the near future?

Ginni Morgan

 Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/28/08 10:35 PM 
Two items of note for those of you interested in my lectures on medieval 
dress, and are within range of either Ohio or Southern California:

-- I will be giving a full day of lectures (five in all) in Oxford, Ohio, at 
Miami University, on Saturday, Oct. 11, 2008. The website for registration 
isn't quite ready yet, but I figured some people would appreciate advance 
notice of the date and place for your calendar. My topics will be as follows:
1. The Gothic Fitted Dress
2. The Greenland Gored Gown
3. Will the Real Sideless Surcoat Please Stand Up?
4. The 15th Century V-Necked Gown
5. When Medieval Meets Victorian: The Roots of Modern Costume Sources

-- I have been approached for a possible appearance in the Los Angeles area, 
early in 2009. This, too, would be a full day consisting of five lectures, 
similar to the above, though probably with some slight variation in the 
lecture lineup. The organizer would like to get a sense of how much interest 
there is so she can choose a suitable venue. If you think you might want to 
attend, please let her know. You can post here and I'll pass the word along, 
or contact her directly (with a copy to me, please): Kerri, at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

--Robin




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Re: [h-cost] Upcoming lecture plans: Ohio and L.A.

[Ginni Morgan]

Hmmm, I'll check into it.

Ginni

 Robin Netherton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/29/08 9:35 AM 
Ginni Morgan wrote:
 Drat it!  I can't afford to travel very far.  Even Southern California is 
 probably outside my budget for the forseeable future.  Will you be doing 
 anything in Northern California in the near future?

If someone (or group) wants to bring me in, I'm all for it. It's been years 
since I've been out there. I spoke in San Jose in, hmm, 2003 I think. I know 
there are people in Sacramento and Davis who have talked about it, but I 
haven't heard anything from that quarter for a long time.

--Robin
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egyptian beaded dress

[Ginni Morgan]

I would suggest using a medium weight natural color linen as a straight 
sleeveless shift/tunic.  Then do the bead net and fasten it down to the 
undershift.

Ginni Morgan

 Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/18/08 9:55 PM 
Speaking of such, has anyone ever come across any fabric that might 
work for a stage costume of this?


Sylvia Rognstad
Divinity Designs and Emeralds
http://www.d-e-designs.com 
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egyptian beaded dress

[Ginni Morgan]

Think macrame for this one.  The beads are on cord which is netted together to 
create the dress, NOT sewn onto a net fabric.  Thus you need to make your 
beaded macrame shell and then line it with something solid (the linen shift).  
However, if you choose to applique the beads to clothe and then sew up the 
shift, DO NOT use net fabric.  It won't be strong enough to support the weight 
of the beads.  

My first encounter with this dress was the article in KMR (a journal re 
Egyptian archaeology) which discussed the find and the reconstruction.  IIRC, 
the hypothesis there was that this was worn over some form of a linen garment 
the style of which is presently unknown.

Ginni 

 Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/21/08 9:50 AM 
It's the net fabric I need to find.   Any suggestions?

On Jul 21, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Ginni Morgan wrote:

 I would suggest using a medium weight natural color linen as a 
 straight sleeveless shift/tunic.  Then do the bead net and fasten it 
 down to the undershift.

 Ginni Morgan

 Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/18/08 9:55 PM 
 Speaking of such, has anyone ever come across any fabric that might
 work for a stage costume of this?


 Sylvia Rognstad
 Divinity Designs and Emeralds
 http://www.d-e-designs.com 
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Re: [h-cost] Ancient Egyptian beaded dress

[Ginni Morgan]

Sylvia

My recollection from the article in KMR is that the dress was netted, not 
crocheted.  When you find the link, could you post it here as well.  I'm not 
sure that I still of that magazine.

Ginni Morgan

 Sylvia Rognstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7/17/08 4:56 PM 
I thought I had saved it, but now cannot find a bookmarked file of a 
picture of an ancient Egyptian beaded (crocheted?) dress that must have 
been exhumed at some point and was still in fairly decent shape.   Does 
someone still have that link?

Sylvia

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