re producing and connecting data per se than actually
recording reliable factual information.
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Date' which can be freely chosen by the user.
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pproach to the matter than a purely
after-the-fact approach to protecting the data.
This does not mean i am convinced this is ultimately the best solution,
this depends on a lot of details of the implementation.
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very specific on what kind
of aggregation is necessary to make the data ok to be published.
Obviously just replacing each user name with user is not
going to cut it. Without clear rules here anyone who publishes
anything based on such data would be in a legal mine field.
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at the functionality of HDYC is not really that
complex. Writing a replacement for it would certainly be quite a bit
of work but it is not really rocket science.
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ery different matters which need
to be considered separately.
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tters which need to be considered separately.
>
> I don't think Michał was mixing those two different matters.
Michał made a connection to privacy concerns regarding Google StreetView
which were exclusively about the recorded data and not about the
recording metadata (which Google obviousl
action with the community outside mapping itself.
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(boundary relation with
boundary=administrative + admin_level=6/8).
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te between them which
is also fine.
Why should i attempt to change their data model to be identical to that
of OSM (which would be a hopeless endeavor anyway because how things
are represented in OSM is constantly changing)?
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t a name tag or coordinates - based purely
on the assumption that the wikidata object referenced via tag is the
same as the OSM feature.
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any
geographic wikipedia articles that describe several different concepts
together for which separate OSM features exist.
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om for interpretation.
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to wikipedia
articles) will get duplicated.
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roblem because if you have some info from Wikipedia
(like a certain name or coordinates) that you don't know the source of
and that you cannot verify independently from other sources or from own
local knowledge it is not information you should enter into OSM a
which
is likely because you don't get how OpenStreetMap is working overall.
I would strongly advise you to reconsider your whole approach to
OpenStreetMap and to interacting with the OpenStreetMap community.
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d to participate in it,
> rather than being productive and beneficial to everyone involved.
I rest my case.
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edits
and want to explore the possibilities of these but who feel the
attitude and approach of Yuri Astrakhan is inconsiderate,
non-constructive and damaging. I would wish more of them would speak
up here but i also understand if they do not want to "pour oil into the
fire" so
different in that regard.
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t a fully scripted solution and not something interactive.
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accounts being blocked.
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.
>
> To my knowledge nothing automatic of this kind exists so far, so
> there should be only a few manual edits of this kind.
Yesterday i showed examples of systematic node and name tag additions to
OSM clearly sourced from Wikidata. It is clear that this is happeni
enstreetmap.org/node/5073632521
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5121933121
But this is also a different matter unrelated to the Wikidata IDs in
OSM.
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a information
is you impose the value system of Wikipedia onto OSM.
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neither add it manually nor through automated edits.
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tags they may
and may not add to the things they map.
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t assessments on the matter.
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his would allow mappers to embrace bot edits but also allows them
to reject this and decide they only want to interact with other craft
mappers and not with bots.
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eby allow mappers to opt out of bot
edits on a case-by-case basis.
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It in
particular needs to tell the mapper what types of wikidata object
should be referenced here and how a mapper can find the correct ID for
a certain feature.
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t; Andy, Wikidata ID is not correct or incorrect -- [...]
Then it is non-verifiable data and does not belong in the OSM database
at all.
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me' is definitely an issue, in particular in regions that are
largely multilingual (i.e. where several language have a strong base
and there is no clear primary language) but also if locals specifically
want to serve outside interests. The way this is currently often
solved by having several na
groups, giving them what market research tells you
they want and giving up on the core of what makes the OSM standard
style unique and forms a significant part of what attracts people to
OSM.
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in map rendering but so far i have not seen any
practical proposal for a client rendered vector tiles concept that
would be able to serve the mapper feedback purposes of the current OSM
standard style. Rory's port of OSM-Carto to vector tiles is not
suitable for client side rendering.
universally unpaid.
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open
data) is something that can be done both before and after a redaction
without problems. And Frederik already indicated the DWG supports
these efforts.
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al
infractions by ceasing some activity or doing something you neglected
to do before.
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at least
the self intersections. ;-)
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rt has significantly reduced the visual impact rolling out this
change to the OSMF servers would have. I would assume it has but the
OSMI does not really allow for a proper assessment here.
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etmap/osm2pgsql/pull/684
My original idea stands: It would be good to have an idea how far the
visual impact of dropping broken geometries has been reduced and if it
has reduced a lot it would make sense to actually remove them in the
standard map relatively fast before the numbers increa
over we have in general
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Active_contributors_year.png).
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approval though. There are
likely also locals who do not think this is a good idea but due to the
low intensity and low volume of edits they don't see it necessary to
say anything.
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OSM is important to know i
think. I have no specific hypothesis here. But obviously such
transfer can result both in legal and quality concerns.
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different approaches to solving problems. It is a good idea
not to try pretending these differences do not exist and that you can
intermix the two worlds without problems.
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; always happens via HOT tasks.
In my eyes this is a fairly clear misrepresentation of OpenStreetMap not
covered by the trademark policy we now have.
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reetMap and HOT
and how they relate to the visitor. learnosm.org (which i think is
also mainly built by HOT) shows this is possible to do.
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Note this is a completely subjective impression of me and in no way
meant to imply being representative for any group of people.
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d developing an intuitive understanding of the
unwritten rules.
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its because
they are only applied to features that are (manually) edited otherwise.
Applying the same 'fixes' mechanically to all features with a certain
tag however is a mechanical edit and needs to be discussed on a
per-case basis - always, no matter how trivial, useful or obvious they
mi
grounds.
* the school consists of a number of rooms in a building but not the
whole building.
* there are multiple schools using the same infrastructure together.
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just my personal interpretation of the policy of course - others
might see this differently.
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also be translated
as unregenerate.
My attempt at a translation of the German text would be:
"Yuri is perceived by many in this discussion, in a similar way as in
previous discussions, as unreasonable/unregenerate and questions the
relevancy of the unwritten rules of OSM."
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Christoph H
then drop arguing for certain tagging
ideas based on your perceived needs for rendering. Tagging decisions
should be based on how mappers can best document their knowledge about
the geography. Not on what some developers find convenient for
rendering.
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ks for the links.
I stand by my critique of how the OSM community is engrossed in how this
is presented by HOT and also by my assessment of the decision making
processes being intransparent (the validity of which has no bearing on
the main point of critique though).
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http:
that are unclear and subjective but you should not
present this as if this financing is somehow integrated into and
supervised by the OSM community.
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a does not work with any of these other,
more fitting terms - sorry. ;-)
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the message...
I sincerely hope the weeklyOSM team ignores such advise. No one really
wants a shallow, politically whitewashed verbal ornamentation of the
links carefully vetted not to hurt anyone that could be generated by a
bot (yes, there is some irony in that).
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the way they perceive it, including the intensity and extent of
the displeasure felt by those in the discussion, you are going to do
more damage to the OSM community than either Yuri or anyone maybe going
on occasion a bit overboard with their choice of words in the
discussion.
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pt at something created the
impulse for a better and successful solution.
(Changed the subject because this of course does not have much to do
with the original subject of this thread - still i think this is an
important topic to discuss)
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urnover in people is much faster in OSM than in science
(see
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Active_contributors_year.png).
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you have developed based on that assumption.
https://xkcd.com/386/ is something something most of us have stopped
doing relatively soon after we discovered the internet...
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said before: *do not mix rendering and tagging discussions*.
[1]https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/master/CARTOGRAPHY.md
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s for OSM as a
whole. I am not claiming this is easy to determine but it should be
the benchmark to apply - which is what i am suggesting everyone to do
here.
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r benefit for OSM and the OSM
community beyond the wiki itself.
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//tasks-stage.hotosm.org/
Looks like a big step in the right direction, thanks.
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the legal issues.
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waterway etc.
are things that could be hinted cautiously to the user to be possible
errors. From JOSM i only know the message that a value is not in
presets - which would catch these errors as well but which is not that
meaningful.
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t this will not necessarily be the case in all eternity and the idea
is floated to maybe even render more than one style this becomes a
relevant question.
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ames.
Otherwise people will inevitably add tons of non-verifiable
transliterated names in a misguided attempt improve the map.
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dding at least brief verbal credits to OSM - for example like
Frederik cited from Missing Maps - to the starting page somewhere.
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way - although this is of course a question i did contemplate.
It would be nice to see you doing me the same courtesy by arguing the
topic at hand without insinuating "an argumentative
pose", "distrust", "Combative questions" or a lack of respect.
--
C
s/2270
While i agree with you that from my perspective a style direction or
design paradigm is needed for successful development i try to be open
to the possibility that it is not. How to attract contributors in such
a framework is not something i can provide a competent o
stion
probably is if this is something editors should provide support to
produce automatically or if it is something that data users should
generate automatically as needed.
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s ago:
>
> http://osmz.ru/osm2008.html
Have you tried running OSMCoastline on that planet? Might be tricky but
would significantly improve the realism of the historic image.
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ter area. This is hampered by the problem that we mostly have no
consistent distinction between river and lake areas in OSM (i.e.
standing and flowing water areas).
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am afraid that even after reading it several times i have no idea what
you want to say with that.
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mming, data processing and
data maintainance that even after ignoring all the arguments in
substance that have been voiced this should be universally rejected if
for no other reason then because it would make OSM the laughing stock
of the whole geodata world.
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Side note: It would be a responsible thing to include a reminder like
what i wrote above with a message like the one i reply to here or in
the welcome messages/FAQs etc. of dedicated communication channels.
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up against these arguments except the
continued expression of the political desire to push this into the OSM
database despite all the arguments against it. Everyone is entitled to
their political views but i don't think the OSM database is a place
where these can
of the transit from expansion (where edits were
predominantly writing new documentation) to maintainance (with
predominantly changes of existing documentation).
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ck of quality control for imports in OSM they are not even remotely
as damaging as would be the deliberate large scale addition of encoded
coordinates as tags to millions of features.
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nstreetmap.org/way/614459980
From a purely technical point of view if it wasn't littering OSM this
would just be droll.
Verifiability my ass...
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important but with organized efforts like this i can't help but get the
impression there is a certain amount of malice to sabotage or at least
an excessive amount of carelessness.
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really help the
original question from John. My answer to that would be: Yes,
automated methods can help to find unmapped settlements in OSM - less
though in actually mapping them.
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se=residential mapping in Eastern Africa this is not the
worst data in the database, not by a large margin. I just pointed it
out here as an example because it was a perfect fit for the idea John
brought up.
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verifiable mapping of settlements in the
area than what we can see now in the database.
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e most likely explanation seems to be
that the quality of building detection and especially of building
geometry generation (if that is being done at all) is probably quite
bad and by not using the building data directly you can kind of
disguise such deficits.
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) or magenta (ring not closed).
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f the big lakes that is a few dozen MB of
download via overpass API and then a few seconds with osmium to
assemble the multipolygon. You can easily set this up to run on a
daily basis to check a few lakes you want to keep an eye on.
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f encoded
coordinate systems but because of digital technology increasingly
allowing dynamically connecting people with locations (and Amazon will
just send you your order to whereever you are - or where you are likely
to be when the order is shipped).
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ne building
at this street or with this postcode) or if you want to defend
pointless or non-verifiable tagging of addr:street for buildings
without a unique address.
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On Wednesday 22 August 2018, Rory McCann wrote:
> > The single most important property of an address is that it is
> > unique
>
> 35% of addresses in Ireland aren't unique.
I strongly suspect we have a different understanding of either 'address'
or 'uniqueness' here.
--
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en if you can specify a street, city etc. at/in which
it is located.
Specifying addr:street on a building that does not have an address is
either pointless or non-verifiable.
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ldings which happen to have the
same address (which clashes with my understanding of the concept of an
address).
Note to document a building/place belongs to a certain street we also
have the concept of the associatedStreet relation.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:a
gging somehow. And
And I don't think the fact that there is no house number needs to be
specifically indicated then.
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noaddress
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unique. I can confirm from having worked there
> that it has indeed no housenumber.
Yes, that looks like a good example for the first case.
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eds to include the name - kind
of like name_is_a_necessary_part_of_address=yes (not a serious
suggestion in this form but you probably get the idea) as to explicitly
indicate the lack of a house number.
Also i kind of doubt if this form of specifying the lack of a house
number is that common ma
extending natural=shingle to urban areas artificially
covered with loose stones based on a physical similarity.
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presented that makes sense, somethings that helps someone to locate
something does not cut it.
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