Re: [Vo]:A complicated vacuum
More... http://vimeo.com/27247968 This simulation depicts a exploding star that produces load of magnetic field lines that can disrupt the surface of the exploding star. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There is an assumption that energy is transferred from the core of the sun to the surface via photons. This is most likely not true. Magnetic field lines may well move most of the energy from inside the sun to the surface where it excites the corona to very high temperatures in the millions of degrees. The surface of the sun is only 5505 °C. However, the temperature increases very steeply from 5505 degrees to a few million degrees in the corona, in the region 500 kilometers above the photosphere. This is the opposite for what would be expected for heat transfer through black body radiation. The same EMF heat transfer mechanism could well be true for supernova explosions. The surface of the exploding star could be blow off instantaneously through an intense pulse of EMF. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: That the estimates for the time taken in the Sun vary between 1 17 years, then this tells me that such estimates are not on a very sound footing. If the difference is a factor of 17 for a constant star like the Sun, then I'm surprised that they only got if wrong by a factor of 2 for the supernova. Good point about the lack of precision in the estimates. I used a footnote but failed to include the original reference (it was to Wikipedia [1]). The Wikipedia article in turn references an article by NASA [2]. Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun [2] http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2007/locations/ttt_sunlight.php
Re: [Vo]:A complicated vacuum
More... here is another very good simulation of magnetic effects in a supernova http://www.space.com/25771-big-bang-universe-supernova-simulations.html On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: More... http://vimeo.com/27247968 This simulation depicts a exploding star that produces load of magnetic field lines that can disrupt the surface of the exploding star. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There is an assumption that energy is transferred from the core of the sun to the surface via photons. This is most likely not true. Magnetic field lines may well move most of the energy from inside the sun to the surface where it excites the corona to very high temperatures in the millions of degrees. The surface of the sun is only 5505 °C. However, the temperature increases very steeply from 5505 degrees to a few million degrees in the corona, in the region 500 kilometers above the photosphere. This is the opposite for what would be expected for heat transfer through black body radiation. The same EMF heat transfer mechanism could well be true for supernova explosions. The surface of the exploding star could be blow off instantaneously through an intense pulse of EMF. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: That the estimates for the time taken in the Sun vary between 1 17 years, then this tells me that such estimates are not on a very sound footing. If the difference is a factor of 17 for a constant star like the Sun, then I'm surprised that they only got if wrong by a factor of 2 for the supernova. Good point about the lack of precision in the estimates. I used a footnote but failed to include the original reference (it was to Wikipedia [1]). The Wikipedia article in turn references an article by NASA [2]. Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun [2] http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2007/locations/ttt_sunlight.php
[Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all? attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:Say it ain't so, Joe -- Peer Review
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin, yes I had to look up pasquinade . I did not think it was any satire in what I said . I would say it is life. Yes, delayed and cancelled performances happens and that is regardless if they are publicly announced. Your analogy is not bad. A pity you cannot see the message. You need to invest depending on your knowledge and assess the risk and finally decide if you can live with the conditions. There are no sure investments. Even if your stocks seems like losers today - you never know (as you have not done the homework) there may be another factor that brings the stock back or better. Let us hope so. I have no problem that you make statements about my profession. You do not know me and I have never worked with you so just go on and tell me how no good I am I hope you collect more data before you do investments. No, Kevin I do not understand that one can be so jealous that one consider stealing things. That people steal for basic need I understand but for greed - no. I have handled other peoples money and never did I feel I could / should or would 'walk away' with their checks. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
Re: [Vo]:Why professors are often late
Kevin if you repeat my statements they at least have to be correct. I did not say they are incompetent as a reason for that I know they are not making any non-defensible investments. I said that is because they could not survive the social pressure in the small country of Sweden. All these guys are well established in a small community and would rather have a little, which is fair than risk their position for dollars they probably will lose when it becomes clear they have cheated. You do not know me and you do not know the country's culture, but you have clear opinions about both. Well . . . Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin O’Malley suspects they may be involved in inside trading, and they are hoarding the information for that reason. I doubt it because: 1. Professors are usually not well-versed in things like investments and business. This is a cliché but it is true nonetheless. ***Yup. That's why it's taking them so long to get their financial ducks in a row. 2. They often hoard information but the usual reason is to achieve academic priority. ***There's no doubting that this is going on but keep in mind that this is the greatest scientific achievement since gunpowder. Usual reasons stop being applicable, and simple greed is a reasonable conclusion. 3. It seems unlikely to me that anyone will be able to cash in on this information in the near term. What would you do? Short sell oil company stocks? ***Yes. There is no direct way to invest in Rossi’s device at this stage. ***You could go for CYPW Cyclone Power, or CPST, or any other publicly traded waste heat engine company. Or publicly traded desalination companies. Or, as a professor, you could collect birddog fees for giving fund managers the heads up. There are some direct ways, mostly indirect ways. That's why these guys are dragging their feet so much ... ;-/ On to the reasons -- ***It seems almost all of your reasons support Lennart's contention that they're simply incompetent. But this is a MONUMENTAL development, so how could they be too old/lazy, not have urgency priority, have no idea of a public deadline, etc.? Bowlsheet. And WTF are we talking about when it comes to the nature of research??? This ain't research. This is reading a voltmeter, an ammeter, and a thermometer. All of us Vorts KNEW there should be isotopic analysis, and only NOW these idiots are thinking about doing it? They simply CANNOT be that incompetent. They are cashing in with their hoarded information. they are willing to dillydally and delay. This is a mystery to me. ***The mystery is solved in this case. These guys are doing the traditional swedish dance of providing for their families and they are leveraging on this hoarded information.
Re: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
Jones-- It seems to me that the important magnetic field for LENR purposes should be the B field as defined and employed in Maxwell’s theory of EM. The “gauss” field referred to in the items below apply to a measured magnetic field in air I believe. There is very little magnetic susceptibility for air. Thus the field is practically the H field in Maxwell’s theory. The B field considering the susceptibility of the material which exists within a material can be considerably different from the external H field produced by an electric coil of wires. Ni could produce very substantial B fields as we have discussed on this blog in the past. In summary I doubt that the magnetic field of a few hundred gauss is what iss important, helical or not at the reaction site. Bob Sent from Windows Mail From: Jones Beene Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2014 8:45 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re:[Vo]:Fusion project on IndieGoGO
This is Eric Lerner's company, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, through their non-profit supporters at Focus Fusion Society. I think their design has been discussed here before, and it's had a generally positive profile in the media. Focus Fusion has a public forum with some interesting in-depth discussion of plasma dynamics: http://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/1273/ Hard to believe that there's actually a nuclear fusion project that is reasonably close to getting funded on IndieGoGo. Three days left and it's at $151K based on a $200K goal. Anyone know much about the team working on this?
RE: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
Bob - I tend to think that both are important parameters - in that an external applied field, such as in the Letts/Cravens effect would energize the B field and is necessary for the boosting effect; and it is really the only useful “knob” we have, with which to vary parameters. It is the “magnetizing field” after all, and there is some proportionality. From: Bob Cook Jones-- It seems to me that the important magnetic field for LENR purposes should be the B field as defined and employed in Maxwell’s theory of EM. The “gauss” field referred to in the items below apply to a measured magnetic field in air I believe. There is very little magnetic susceptibility for air. Thus the field is practically the H field in Maxwell’s theory. The B field considering the susceptibility of the material which exists within a material can be considerably different from the external H field produced by an electric coil of wires. Ni could produce very substantial B fields as we have discussed on this blog in the past. In summary I doubt that the magnetic field of a few hundred gauss is what iss important, helical or not at the reaction site. Bob Sent from Windows Mail From: Jones Beene mailto:jone...@pacbell.net Sent: Thursday, July 3, 2014 8:45 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re: [Vo]:Say it ain't so, Joe -- Peer Review
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin, yes I had to look up pasquinade . I did not think it was any satire in what I said . ***You'll need to look it up again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasquino When someone calls you a pasquinade, it means you're as dumb as the pasquino statue and do not have the ability to reply intelligently. I would say it is life. Yes, delayed and cancelled performances happens and that is regardless if they are publicly announced. Your analogy is not bad. ***High praise, coming from you. A pity you cannot see the message. ***The pity is in your corner because the fat lady is incompetent at best. You need to invest depending on your knowledge and assess the risk and finally decide if you can live with the conditions. There are no sure investments. Even if your stocks seems like losers today - you never know (as you have not done the homework) there may be another factor that brings the stock back or better. Let us hope so. ***Luckily for me, I decided upthread that I wouldn't be taking any advice from you. I have no problem that you make statements about my profession. You do not know me and I have never worked with you so just go on and tell me how no good I am I hope you collect more data before you do investments. ***Yup, you're the one who learned stuff from me and my creative insults, like calling you a pasquinade. No, Kevin I do not understand that one can be so jealous that one consider stealing things. ***That would explain the entire nature of our correspondence. That people steal for basic need I understand but for greed - no. I have handled other peoples money and never did I feel I could / should or would 'walk away' with their checks. ***It's an analogy. The analogy is that there's temptation. Martha Stewart had plenty of money when she engaged in insider trading. People are fallible, but you simply cannot see it if the supposed greedsters are Swedish. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
Re: [Vo]:Why professors are often late
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Kevin if you repeat my statements they at least have to be correct. ***I'm not repeating, I'm paraphrasing. I did not say they are incompetent ***Then you need to perform a cephalorectomy. You can't see greed. You can't see incompetence. It's there for all others to see. as a reason for that I know they are not making any non-defensible investments ***That is, ONCE AGAIN, not a REASON. It is SIMPLY an ASSERTION from you. . I said that is because they could not survive the social pressure in the small country of Sweden. ***I don't think you said that, but it doesn't make much difference. If you finagle a few $billion with insider trading, you can afford to move away from Sweden. All these guys are well established in a small community and would rather have a little, ***And you know this... how? You're able to read minds? You think these guys are above the common temptations of ordinary humans? which is fair than risk their position for dollars they probably will lose when it becomes clear they have cheated. ***Like Martha Stewart. That's precisely what she did, even though she had position, status, money already. But somehow you know that these guys don't have temptation to engage in insider trading. You don't seem to be able to insert any reasons for this position of yours, you just reiterate your assertion, over and over, calling it a reason. It ain't a reason. It's an assertion, and a poor one at that. It's the rhetorical equivalent of pissing on a man's back calling it rain. You do not know me and you do not know the country's culture, but you have clear opinions about both. Well . . . ***I have clear opinions about HUMANS, regardless of their culture or country. Humans are fallible. Swedes are humans. Ergo, Swedes are fallible.
Re: [Vo]:Fusion project on IndieGoGO
the crowd-funding effort on IndieGoGo http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/focus-fusion-empowertheworld--3, was launched to build a beryllium electrode for the Dense Plasma Focus. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:24 PM, AlanG a...@magicsound.us wrote: This is Eric Lerner's company, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, through their non-profit supporters at Focus Fusion Society. I think their design has been discussed here before, and it's had a generally positive profile in the media. Focus Fusion has a public forum with some interesting in-depth discussion of plasma dynamics: http://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/1273/ Hard to believe that there's actually a nuclear fusion project that is reasonably close to getting funded on IndieGoGo. Three days left and it's at $151K based on a $200K goal. Anyone know much about the team working on this?
Re: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
That oem page just turns out to be about amps/turns not being as accurate as a full calculation. No actual coil gauss tests were made despite the writer claiming that they should be. Hence no magic as such, the MOD-A is calculated to be no stronger despite a higher amps/turns, given an identical ID and length then this must mean a drop in the overall current density per square cm of coil cross section. But would result in the OD increasing in the amps turns is higher. This makes sense since it says there are more amps, more amps requires a thicker wire and thicker wires don't pack as well assuming they are round. John On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re: [Vo]:Fusion project on IndieGoGO
With IndieGoGo, you can get partial funding unlike kickstarter. So even if it doesn't reach their goal they very likely get to do what they can with what they got. On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: the crowd-funding effort on IndieGoGo http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/focus-fusion-empowertheworld--3, was launched to build a beryllium electrode for the Dense Plasma Focus. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:24 PM, AlanG a...@magicsound.us wrote: This is Eric Lerner's company, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics, through their non-profit supporters at Focus Fusion Society. I think their design has been discussed here before, and it's had a generally positive profile in the media. Focus Fusion has a public forum with some interesting in-depth discussion of plasma dynamics: http://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/1273/ Hard to believe that there's actually a nuclear fusion project that is reasonably close to getting funded on IndieGoGo. Three days left and it's at $151K based on a $200K goal. Anyone know much about the team working on this?
RE: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
Hi John, Yes it is a mistake to read too much into this amp-turn detail. It is more of a curiosity. The important thing to try to fit into the big picture, especially as a design option for kilowatt level LENR, seems to be that external magnetism at a moderate level is beneficial (per Letts/Cravens), and furthermore, that a surprising way to achieve a magnetic field is via resistance heating wire itself when properly configured (instead of having a dedicated electromagnet plus dedicated heating, as two separate inputs). AFAIK – no one prior to Rossi has realized this dual use for resistance heating. It could be the main reason that the hot cat can achieve the remarkable performance claimed. In fact, Rossi himself may not have been aiming for a magnetic effect, per se. Some months ago, no answer was forthcoming for the question of whether the new TIP report concerned the hot version or the original version or both. Mats Lewin seems to think it is the hot version. The hot version fits more neatly into the SPP theoretical base and magnetism fits nicely as well… not to mention conversion of heat to electricity. From: John Berry That oem page just turns out to be about amps/turns not being as accurate as a full calculation. No actual coil gauss tests were made despite the writer claiming that they should be. Hence no magic as such, the MOD-A is calculated to be no stronger despite a higher amps/turns, given an identical ID and length then this must mean a drop in the overall current density per square cm of coil cross section. But would result in the OD increasing in the amps turns is higher. This makes sense since it says there are more amps, more amps requires a thicker wire and thicker wires don't pack as well assuming they are round. John On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
I have not looked closely but if he is pulsing the power through the coil he may be sending magnetic pulses/square waves thru the unit, inducing currents and creating charge clusters inside. That is how my coral reef dissolver works...it gets 4 stars on Amazon! http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B003Z96GR4/ref=pd_aw_sbs_3/177-0879451-8741201?pi=SS115 Stewart On Thursday, July 3, 2014, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hi John, Yes it is a mistake to read too much into this amp-turn detail. It is more of a curiosity. The important thing to try to fit into the big picture, especially as a design option for kilowatt level LENR, seems to be that external magnetism at a moderate level is beneficial (per Letts/Cravens), and furthermore, that a surprising way to achieve a magnetic field is via resistance heating wire itself when properly configured (instead of having a dedicated electromagnet plus dedicated heating, as two separate inputs). AFAIK – no one prior to Rossi has realized this dual use for resistance heating. It could be the main reason that the hot cat can achieve the remarkable performance claimed. In fact, Rossi himself may not have been aiming for a magnetic effect, per se. Some months ago, no answer was forthcoming for the question of whether the new TIP report concerned the hot version or the original version or both. Mats Lewin seems to think it is the hot version. The hot version fits more neatly into the SPP theoretical base and magnetism fits nicely as well… not to mention conversion of heat to electricity. *From:* John Berry That oem page just turns out to be about amps/turns not being as accurate as a full calculation. No actual coil gauss tests were made despite the writer claiming that they should be. Hence no magic as such, the MOD-A is calculated to be no stronger despite a higher amps/turns, given an identical ID and length then this must mean a drop in the overall current density per square cm of coil cross section. But would result in the OD increasing in the amps turns is higher. This makes sense since it says there are more amps, more amps requires a thicker wire and thicker wires don't pack as well assuming they are round. John On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','jone...@pacbell.net'); wrote: If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
[Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
Hi folks, I just came across an interesting experiment shown at youtube and was wondering what do you think of this demonstration shown? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz-Lupbn7mc I didn't try it myself, because as non-smoker I don't have a lighter at hand. What do you think, is it really free energy as envisioned by Tesla or a trick with induction? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
The interesting phenomenon here is that people go to even this much trouble to make fools of other people. As though it weren't already firmly established that there is a sucker born every minute. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_966UC1QhQ On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 6:00 PM, Man on Bridges manonbrid...@aim.com wrote: Hi folks, I just came across an interesting experiment shown at youtube and was wondering what do you think of this demonstration shown? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz-Lupbn7mc I didn't try it myself, because as non-smoker I don't have a lighter at hand. What do you think, is it really free energy as envisioned by Tesla or a trick with induction? Kind regards, Rob
Re: [Vo]:Say it ain't so, Joe -- Peer Review
You are twisting words or make citations after your own interpretation. Most of your stuff is just polemic. Just fyi my idea about how theft can be understood or less condemned is not an analogy. You had an analogy, which was good but you did not understand the analogy. As you bring up Marta Stewart - isn't she a good example of someone who thought she was invisible. Problem was she did not understand her own social situation because she was spoiled by being treated preferably. Not the case with a few Swedish PhD's involved in a very high profile technology as unbiased examiners. I can hear you are looking for a fat incompetent lady - hope you do better with that. I did look up pasquinade and it says 'a creative work that uses sharp humor to point up the foolishness of a person'. or in another 'pas·qui·nade (pskw-nd) *n.* A satire or lampoon, especially one that ridicules a specific person, traditionally written and posted in a public place. ' I am sure yours is better. Use words that has meaning there is many of them in the English language. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:28 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: Kevin, yes I had to look up pasquinade . I did not think it was any satire in what I said . ***You'll need to look it up again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasquino When someone calls you a pasquinade, it means you're as dumb as the pasquino statue and do not have the ability to reply intelligently. I would say it is life. Yes, delayed and cancelled performances happens and that is regardless if they are publicly announced. Your analogy is not bad. ***High praise, coming from you. A pity you cannot see the message. ***The pity is in your corner because the fat lady is incompetent at best. You need to invest depending on your knowledge and assess the risk and finally decide if you can live with the conditions. There are no sure investments. Even if your stocks seems like losers today - you never know (as you have not done the homework) there may be another factor that brings the stock back or better. Let us hope so. ***Luckily for me, I decided upthread that I wouldn't be taking any advice from you. I have no problem that you make statements about my profession. You do not know me and I have never worked with you so just go on and tell me how no good I am I hope you collect more data before you do investments. ***Yup, you're the one who learned stuff from me and my creative insults, like calling you a pasquinade. No, Kevin I do not understand that one can be so jealous that one consider stealing things. ***That would explain the entire nature of our correspondence. That people steal for basic need I understand but for greed - no. I have handled other peoples money and never did I feel I could / should or would 'walk away' with their checks. ***It's an analogy. The analogy is that there's temptation. Martha Stewart had plenty of money when she engaged in insider trading. People are fallible, but you simply cannot see it if the supposed greedsters are Swedish. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM
Re: [Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
Rob, even if it did work, it wasn't free. The piezoelectric energy was generated by work performed by the hand. Quite inefficient, actually.
Re: [Vo]:Why professors are often late
Kevin - just give up - you are saying I said and then you say you paraphrased. Not much style but what to expect. Anyone can afford to move from Sweden. However, nobody get lucky from moving from - only from moving to. Besides they are old enough they have a life already invested in that oscial environment - and money is not as important as you think. My contribution is/ was that I know the Swedish society. It is different than the US. Just as you and I are different. I have never pissed on a man's back and I would apologies if did - not try to say that it is rain. Your idea of paraphrasing I guess. Ask Martha Stewart if she is happy she decided to take advantage of an insider tips. Not. She lost way more than if she had kept her stock and taken the loss. Economically I am quite sure from other perspectives a COP of 100 times. Your opinion of humans is rather sad. Try to get in to a leadership program. Try to get some personal development training it would make you much happier than to be a negative, suspicious person. I promise you will send me a thank you letter afterwards. I am sorry but I am not able to help you - find someone you like. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Kevin if you repeat my statements they at least have to be correct. ***I'm not repeating, I'm paraphrasing. I did not say they are incompetent ***Then you need to perform a cephalorectomy. You can't see greed. You can't see incompetence. It's there for all others to see. as a reason for that I know they are not making any non-defensible investments ***That is, ONCE AGAIN, not a REASON. It is SIMPLY an ASSERTION from you. . I said that is because they could not survive the social pressure in the small country of Sweden. ***I don't think you said that, but it doesn't make much difference. If you finagle a few $billion with insider trading, you can afford to move away from Sweden. All these guys are well established in a small community and would rather have a little, ***And you know this... how? You're able to read minds? You think these guys are above the common temptations of ordinary humans? which is fair than risk their position for dollars they probably will lose when it becomes clear they have cheated. ***Like Martha Stewart. That's precisely what she did, even though she had position, status, money already. But somehow you know that these guys don't have temptation to engage in insider trading. You don't seem to be able to insert any reasons for this position of yours, you just reiterate your assertion, over and over, calling it a reason. It ain't a reason. It's an assertion, and a poor one at that. It's the rhetorical equivalent of pissing on a man's back calling it rain. You do not know me and you do not know the country's culture, but you have clear opinions about both. Well . . . ***I have clear opinions about HUMANS, regardless of their culture or country. Humans are fallible. Swedes are humans. Ergo, Swedes are fallible.
Re: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
The hot-cat contains two interrelated systems elements: the mouse and the cat. The mouse is based on the original system’s design that Rossi tried to interest DGT in. It got into control problems when it got too hot but it was stable at low output (COP) levels. The mouse is driven by a primary resistance heater. And I speculate that it is most productive at a resonant temperature of which there may be many levels in the NiH design. The H-Cat is driven by the mouse and its resonant temperature is different than the temperature that the mouse operates at. I suspect that there is a differing micro-particles diameter sizes in the cat and the mouse to support differing resonant temperatures. The cat and mouse technology is a two stage system that features differing temperatures to enable controllability. The mouse is driven at high temperatures but has a marginal COP to provide control through temperature stability through low COP. To provide good controllability, the cat has a high gain but the mouse provides a decoupling between the high temperature primary electrical heating drive element and high thermal gain of the cat. The mouse may also provide hydride based hydrogen production and reabsorption based on temperature. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hi John, Yes it is a mistake to read too much into this amp-turn detail. It is more of a curiosity. The important thing to try to fit into the big picture, especially as a design option for kilowatt level LENR, seems to be that external magnetism at a moderate level is beneficial (per Letts/Cravens), and furthermore, that a surprising way to achieve a magnetic field is via resistance heating wire itself when properly configured (instead of having a dedicated electromagnet plus dedicated heating, as two separate inputs). AFAIK – no one prior to Rossi has realized this dual use for resistance heating. It could be the main reason that the hot cat can achieve the remarkable performance claimed. In fact, Rossi himself may not have been aiming for a magnetic effect, per se. Some months ago, no answer was forthcoming for the question of whether the new TIP report concerned the hot version or the original version or both. Mats Lewin seems to think it is the hot version. The hot version fits more neatly into the SPP theoretical base and magnetism fits nicely as well… not to mention conversion of heat to electricity. *From:* John Berry That oem page just turns out to be about amps/turns not being as accurate as a full calculation. No actual coil gauss tests were made despite the writer claiming that they should be. Hence no magic as such, the MOD-A is calculated to be no stronger despite a higher amps/turns, given an identical ID and length then this must mean a drop in the overall current density per square cm of coil cross section. But would result in the OD increasing in the amps turns is higher. This makes sense since it says there are more amps, more amps requires a thicker wire and thicker wires don't pack as well assuming they are round. John On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re: [Vo]:Magic at 10,000 amp turns?
Rossi must be spending a ton of time trying to protect his intellectual property with some sort of auto self-destruct process to prevent reverse engineering. The best way to stop reverse engineering is to provide a complicated eprom based control system what will auto erase when the reactor is opened. Much can be learned from crypto machine technology in support of reverse engineering prevention. http://www.digikey.com/us/en/techzone/lighting/resources/articles/secure-microcontrollers-keep-data-safe.html On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: The hot-cat contains two interrelated systems elements: the mouse and the cat. The mouse is based on the original system’s design that Rossi tried to interest DGT in. It got into control problems when it got too hot but it was stable at low output (COP) levels. The mouse is driven by a primary resistance heater. And I speculate that it is most productive at a resonant temperature of which there may be many levels in the NiH design. The H-Cat is driven by the mouse and its resonant temperature is different than the temperature that the mouse operates at. I suspect that there is a differing micro-particles diameter sizes in the cat and the mouse to support differing resonant temperatures. The cat and mouse technology is a two stage system that features differing temperatures to enable controllability. The mouse is driven at high temperatures but has a marginal COP to provide control through temperature stability through low COP. To provide good controllability, the cat has a high gain but the mouse provides a decoupling between the high temperature primary electrical heating drive element and high thermal gain of the cat. The mouse may also provide hydride based hydrogen production and reabsorption based on temperature. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:51 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Hi John, Yes it is a mistake to read too much into this amp-turn detail. It is more of a curiosity. The important thing to try to fit into the big picture, especially as a design option for kilowatt level LENR, seems to be that external magnetism at a moderate level is beneficial (per Letts/Cravens), and furthermore, that a surprising way to achieve a magnetic field is via resistance heating wire itself when properly configured (instead of having a dedicated electromagnet plus dedicated heating, as two separate inputs). AFAIK – no one prior to Rossi has realized this dual use for resistance heating. It could be the main reason that the hot cat can achieve the remarkable performance claimed. In fact, Rossi himself may not have been aiming for a magnetic effect, per se. Some months ago, no answer was forthcoming for the question of whether the new TIP report concerned the hot version or the original version or both. Mats Lewin seems to think it is the hot version. The hot version fits more neatly into the SPP theoretical base and magnetism fits nicely as well… not to mention conversion of heat to electricity. *From:* John Berry That oem page just turns out to be about amps/turns not being as accurate as a full calculation. No actual coil gauss tests were made despite the writer claiming that they should be. Hence no magic as such, the MOD-A is calculated to be no stronger despite a higher amps/turns, given an identical ID and length then this must mean a drop in the overall current density per square cm of coil cross section. But would result in the OD increasing in the amps turns is higher. This makes sense since it says there are more amps, more amps requires a thicker wire and thicker wires don't pack as well assuming they are round. John On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: If you have seen the famous image of the Rossi HT HotCat showing the resistance wiring, then you probably realize that the electrical input, even though it is used for heating, and even though it is not applied constantly - has an equivalent amp-turn property. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-09/14/cold-fusion/viewgallery/29059 8 It can be estimated that the amp-turn equivalent of the device pictured is 10,000 if one includes the turns around the wire axis at 10 amps input - but that this arrangement cannot be modeled as a solenoid, and the resultant magnetic field would be complex, probably helical and only a few hundred gauss. Still, the 10,000 amp-turns stuck in my mind as worth remembering, since Letts/Cravens found that LENR benefits from modest fields of a few hundred gauss and not higher. As fate would have it, this value turned up recently as a magic rating in another field http://www.oem-usa.com/news/info_The_magical_mag_coil.html ... magic indeed. The $64 question in all of this is why a small field works best - and does a small helical field work best of all?
Re: [Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
Egads, are you guys serious? On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, even if it did work, it wasn't free. The piezoelectric energy was generated by work performed by the hand. Quite inefficient, actually.
Re: [Vo]:Why professors are often late
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Kevin - just give up - you are saying I said and then you say you paraphrased. Not much style but what to expect. ***Lennart. If it is not your contention that these guys are simply feckless then you need to pull your head far out from your hind quarters. You don't see the greed, you don't see the incompetence, you just see some hapless swedes. You are ridiculous. Anyone can afford to move from Sweden. ***Well, then, there it is. Thanks for solidifying my point. However, nobody get lucky from moving from - only from moving to. ***Useless and meaningless phrase. You really aren't very good at demonstrating strategic leadership. Besides they are old enough they have a life already invested in that oscial environment ***Just like Martha Stewart. Round round you go. Same old dog vomit argument. - and money is not as important as you think. ***Actually, what I consider to be important is competence in this case. And these guys blew well past incompetence while handling the greatest scientific breakthrough since gunpowder. They're so incompetent that they can't possibly be THAT incompetent, there are other forces at work here including greed. But you can't see greed, nor incompetence, nor any other forces of temptation. You only see the wonderfully soft mild swedish bent towards social pressure. Bullshit. My contribution is/ was that I know the Swedish society. It is different than the US. Just as you and I are different. ***Swedes are fallible humans. Being swedish doesn't exempt you from temptation. But it sure doesn't stop you from trying to pretend that it does. I have never pissed on a man's back and I would apologies if did - not try to say that it is rain. Your idea of paraphrasing I guess. ***You don't seem to be able to grasp analogies, or simple reasoning. Ask Martha Stewart if she is happy she decided to take advantage of an insider tips. Not. ***Precisely. But she was in exactly the position you describe your swedish buddies -- comfortably wealthy, well known, established. Temptation blew into her life and it can blow into anyone else's life who is in the same position... like your swedish buddies. She lost way more than if she had kept her stock and taken the loss. Economically I am quite sure from other perspectives a COP of 100 times. ***You don't make a very strong point here. The point was about how temptation can strike ANYone, and you're off into the weeds describing the negative outcome of temptation. How incredibly droll. DUHH, it's bad. Your opinion of humans is rather sad. ***Your opinion of swedes is rather ridiculous. Try to get in to a leadership program. ***You mean, like your strategic leadership bullshit? No thanks. Try to get some personal development training it would make you much happier than to be a negative, suspicious person. ***Only the paranoid survive~Andy Grove, President of Intel. And here's a hint: Negative, suspicious people don't park their money where their mouth is to promote LENR. I put my money where my mouth is; you didn't, because you are a negative and suspicious person, a lagger claiming to lead, a pasquinade. I promise you will send me a thank you letter afterwards. ***Your promises are probably worth about as much as what I paid for your advice. I am sorry but I am not able to help you - find someone you like. ***Your interactions are not of a sort where a person's trying to help another. It's more like, you're just a simple browbeater who spouts cliches, giving assertions calling them reasons, obfuscating, and being generally inane. Best Regards , Lennart Thornros www.StrategicLeadershipSac.com lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 202 Granite Park Court, Lincoln CA 95648 “Productivity is never an accident. It is always the result of a commitment to excellence, intelligent planning, and focused effort.” PJM On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Kevin O'Malley kevmol...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 10:14 AM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: Kevin if you repeat my statements they at least have to be correct. ***I'm not repeating, I'm paraphrasing. I did not say they are incompetent ***Then you need to perform a cephalorectomy. You can't see greed. You can't see incompetence. It's there for all others to see. as a reason for that I know they are not making any non-defensible investments ***That is, ONCE AGAIN, not a REASON. It is SIMPLY an ASSERTION from you. . I said that is because they could not survive the social pressure in the small country of Sweden. ***I don't think you said that, but it doesn't make much difference. If you finagle a few $billion with insider trading, you can afford to move away from Sweden. All these guys are well established in a small community and would rather have a little, ***And you know
Re: [Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
There's such a thing as being too serious, James. BTW, that's not a mullet, is it? :-) On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 10:52 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Egads, are you guys serious? On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, even if it did work, it wasn't free. The piezoelectric energy was generated by work performed by the hand. Quite inefficient, actually.
Re: [Vo]:A complicated vacuum
In reply to Axil Axil's message of Thu, 3 Jul 2014 02:21:34 -0400: Hi, ...but it's the light that we are measuring, so affects that delay the propagation of light are significant. More... here is another very good simulation of magnetic effects in a supernova http://www.space.com/25771-big-bang-universe-supernova-simulations.html On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: More... http://vimeo.com/27247968 This simulation depicts a exploding star that produces load of magnetic field lines that can disrupt the surface of the exploding star. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: There is an assumption that energy is transferred from the core of the sun to the surface via photons. This is most likely not true. Magnetic field lines may well move most of the energy from inside the sun to the surface where it excites the corona to very high temperatures in the millions of degrees. The surface of the sun is only 5505 °C. However, the temperature increases very steeply from 5505 degrees to a few million degrees in the corona, in the region 500 kilometers above the photosphere. This is the opposite for what would be expected for heat transfer through black body radiation. The same EMF heat transfer mechanism could well be true for supernova explosions. The surface of the exploding star could be blow off instantaneously through an intense pulse of EMF. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:39 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: That the estimates for the time taken in the Sun vary between 1 17 years, then this tells me that such estimates are not on a very sound footing. If the difference is a factor of 17 for a constant star like the Sun, then I'm surprised that they only got if wrong by a factor of 2 for the supernova. Good point about the lack of precision in the estimates. I used a footnote but failed to include the original reference (it was to Wikipedia [1]). The Wikipedia article in turn references an article by NASA [2]. Eric [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun [2] http://sunearthday.nasa.gov/2007/locations/ttt_sunlight.php Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Say it ain't so, Joe -- Peer Review
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com wrote: You are twisting words or make citations after your own interpretation. Most of your stuff is just polemic. ***So is yours, you're just a crappy writer. Just fyi my idea about how theft can be understood or less condemned is not an analogy. You had an analogy, which was good but you did not understand the analogy. ***There you go again, giving an assertion as if it were a reason. Of COURSE I understood the analogy, because I was the one who INTRODUCED it. But you can't see the fat lady having ulterior motives because you refuse to. Head in the sand. You're ridiculous. As you bring up Marta Stewart - isn't she a good example of someone who thought she was invisible. ***Man, are you way off here. She had millions of TV followers from her show. Where do you come up with this stuff? Problem was she did not understand her own social situation because she was spoiled by being treated preferably. ***A lot like them there your swedish friends. Not the case with a few Swedish PhD's involved in a very high profile technology as unbiased examiners. ***Umm, do we even know who they are? Talk about thinking one is invisible, getting spoiled by being treated preferably. I can hear you are looking for a fat incompetent lady - hope you do better with that. ***I can hear you are looking for a clue. Best for you to go down to the corner store and purchase one.
Re: [Vo]:Is this really free energy or fake ???
No, its a time cube. On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:02 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: There's such a thing as being too serious, James. BTW, that's not a mullet, is it? :-) On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 10:52 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Egads, are you guys serious? On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Rob, even if it did work, it wasn't free. The piezoelectric energy was generated by work performed by the hand. Quite inefficient, actually.
