The BMW UUC Digest
Volume 2 : Issue 351 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
2000 M5 rear view mirror freakout
where to get SA Konis for E36 M3?
Re: where to get SA Konis for E36 M3?
Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Re: BMW Turbo Cars and Performance
E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
E30 jack points and rust
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 16:54:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There is no better way to make big power numbers than
with a turbo, but peak power isn't everything. Any
turbo engine has soft throttle response, even well
tuned ones that are operating in the boost range,
compared to a well tuned atmospheric engine.
BMW ///M models (proper ones) even have a throttle per
cylinder to improve throttle response even more. This
is BMW's practice.
If you want a nickle rocket, then there are many
cheaper ways to go besides a BMW.
Also part throttle fuel consumption is higher with a
turbo because the expansion (same as compression)ratio
is lower. Also there are plumbing, heat soak, and
other practical issues.
Once an engine is turbo's, adding aftermarket power is
very easy, but life is drastically shortened.
Your friend's cars may be fast in a straight line, but
can do nothing else with any grace. If you want only
straight line performance, BMW is not the car to have.
Gary Derian
--- "Roy T. Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been looking over BMW history recently and I
> am surprised that
> BMW does not have a current turbo car for gasoline
> powered engines.
> With all the hype that turbo cars have been given
> lately you would think
> that BMW would have a turbo gasoline model. I mean
> they did create the
> X5 with the SUV craze. Does anyone know why BMW
> does not have a turbo
> car?
>
> Also what is the major downside to a turbo short of
> maintenance
> concerns. It seems that turbos are a logical
> evolution of the engine.
> It allows for more efficient fuel combustion and
> incredible power with
> much smaller blocks making for more efficient
> performance...more power
> less weight. There has to be a draw back, right?
>
> All my friends are turbo dodge junkies and they have
> been hounding me to
> get one. They have been racing over-boosted Dodges
> for years with
> incredibly powerful engines. I usually hit them back
> with the handling
> argument that power is useless without control.
> Recently however it
> seems that you can get an equivalently handling car
> with more power for
> much less than a stock BMW with little power, in
> comparison. My friends
> cars with a few inexpensive mods have the same
> performance as mine but
> end up costing half as much in the end, even after
> the cost of the mods.
> The same upgrade to my car costs significantly more.
> Does it perform
> better?
>
> I guess I am questioning my BMW loyalty. Why do we
> buy BMWs? Short of
> spending more what more do we really get. Do we pay
> more only to say
> "yes, I bought an expensive car". BMW has been a
> performance minded
> company with the enthusiast in mind. Also I do like
> the fact that BMW
> has always been on a very technology heavy path.
> The next cars may just
> drive themselves. But does paying more get me
> anymore performance over
> other cars. If I wanted to pay more just to show
> that I paid more I
> would own a Jag. Right now I am looking at getting
> my 3rd BMW now but I
> am second guessing my choice of car. Someone
> re-convince me to buy BMW.
> Plus I think the discussion alone is very
> interesting.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:02:22 -0400
From: "Chris Pawlowicz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roy T. Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
roy,
There will always be faster, bigger, smaller, whatever, cars out there. Take
a close look at how all BMWs do *everything* pretty well and try to find
another car from any company that can say the same.
The other pretty amazing thing is that you can get into any BMW from any
time period (well, since the 70s) up to brand new models, and they all have
a similar feel. Controls fall quickly to hand, they have proper seating
position and pedal layout, the cars feel peppy and responsive, and they
encourage and reward good driving.
That being said, a local club member has installed a home-made turbo on his
E21 320i and it's silly fun to drive :) once you dig into the boost, hold on
to your hat! 200 HP at the wheels (on 94 octane) from an otherwise stock
engine.. hehehe
chris pawlowicz
'89 325i
'99 Z3 2.8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy T. Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 5:28 PM
Subject: [UUC] BMW turbo cars and performance
> I have been looking over BMW history recently and I am surprised that
> BMW does not have a current turbo car for gasoline powered engines.
> With all the hype that turbo cars have been given lately you would think
> that BMW would have a turbo gasoline model. I mean they did create the
> X5 with the SUV craze. Does anyone know why BMW does not have a turbo
> car?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 20:25:02 -0700
From: "Scott T. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Fri, 2004-09-03 at 19:01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have been looking over BMW history recently and I am surprised that
> BMW does not have a current turbo car for gasoline powered engines.
> With all the hype that turbo cars have been given lately you would think
> that BMW would have a turbo gasoline model. I mean they did create the
> X5 with the SUV craze. Does anyone know why BMW does not have a turbo
> car?
my understanding is it has to do with throttle response. It simply
isn't the same with a turbo car. It's along the same lines of why they
insist on inline 6's instead of V6's... they believe in the purity of
the naturally balanced L6 over the V6 (yes I know the Supra is also an
L6...). Heck, even the 1 series has room for an inline 6, and that's
supposed to be a small car!
Turbos are fun, but there is that lag, and letting them cool down is a
bitch if you have a manual -- can't get a turbo timer if you want to
leave it in gear.
Scott
993TT
97 M3/4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:56:44 -0500
From: "Dana LeJune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2000 M5 rear view mirror freakout
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Anyone ever had their clown nose mirror just go blurry, and have spots
appear overnight??
Dana LeJune
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 20:31:50 -1000
From: Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: where to get SA Konis for E36 M3?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
hey gruppe...i was thinking of changing my stock shocks out of my 97 M3...i
wanna get me some SA Konis, does anyone know where i can buy a set? i wanna
be able to purchase the complete shock, and not have to do the cut-n-gut
deal...
anyone also have a lead on Koni double adjustables??? anymore work to get
these to fit/work with the stock springs???
i'm planning to leave the stcok springs in, so i can remain legal in SCCA
stock class for auto-x...thanx in advance!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 07:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Carlos Lopez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where to get SA Konis for E36 M3?
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Jay G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> anyone also have a lead on Koni double adjustables??? anymore work
> to get these to fit/work with the stock springs???
TC Kline, Ground Control, True Choice Motorsports all sell Konis. GC
and tckline cater to BMWs so I'd probably buy them there as they will
likely sell you the entire strut assembly as well.
Carlos.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 01:26:27 -0700
From: "RussC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
BMW did build a 400hp straight 6, but at 5700rpm, they just don't make it
anymore? The M30b34 and M30b35
Dinan, Cartech and now TurboChargingDymamics.com have known this and did
make aftermarket systems. The M30 may be the most bullit proof engine they
made.
All the people I've talked to say that BMW will do a twin turbo 3.4l inline
6 @ ~400hp sometime in the near future to bridge the gap from the 330hp V8
to the 500hp V8.
RussC
'88 535is Dinan Turbo Final Edition
>
> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 14:42:04 -0700
> From: JKerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Roy T. Collins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: BMW turbo cars and performance
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> There's a lot of Supra turbo and Mazda RXD-7twin turbo guys and
> ladies out here around the Bay Area dust my a$^ pushing 4 sec zero to
> sixty 350+ hp motors. At the street races Jack the E36 //M3 holds his
> own on the road against almost any N-A car short of another well tuned
> //M3 (Jack eats stock //M3s for breakfast on the 101) or some big
> American V8s, but yes, why doesn't BMW make a gentle turbo or blower
> motor? If Toyota can make a bulletproof straight 6 to reliably and
> repeatedly handle 400+hp at 7000rpm, why can't/ or won't BMW? the
> induction, exhaust, and electronics alone would be great aftermarket
> items for the older models.
>
> Barry
> /sometimes frustrated street racer
>
>
> Roy T. Collins wrote:
>
> >I have been looking over BMW history recently and I am surprised that
> >BMW does not have a current turbo car for gasoline powered engines.
> >With all the hype that turbo cars have been given lately you would think
> >that BMW would have a turbo gasoline model. I mean they did create the
> >X5 with the SUV craze. Does anyone know why BMW does not have a turbo
> >car?
> >
> >Also what is the major downside to a turbo short of maintenance
> >concerns. It seems that turbos are a logical evolution of the engine.
> >It allows for more efficient fuel combustion and incredible power with
> >much smaller blocks making for more efficient performance...more power
> >less weight. There has to be a draw back, right?
> >
> >All my friends are turbo dodge junkies and they have been hounding me to
> >get one. They have been racing over-boosted Dodges for years with
> >incredibly powerful engines. I usually hit them back with the handling
> >argument that power is useless without control. Recently however it
> >seems that you can get an equivalently handling car with more power for
> >much less than a stock BMW with little power, in comparison. My friends
> >cars with a few inexpensive mods have the same performance as mine but
> >end up costing half as much in the end, even after the cost of the mods.
> >The same upgrade to my car costs significantly more. Does it perform
> >better?
> >
> >I guess I am questioning my BMW loyalty. Why do we buy BMWs? Short of
> >spending more what more do we really get. Do we pay more only to say
> >"yes, I bought an expensive car". BMW has been a performance minded
> >company with the enthusiast in mind. Also I do like the fact that BMW
> >has always been on a very technology heavy path. The next cars may just
> >drive themselves. But does paying more get me anymore performance over
> >other cars. If I wanted to pay more just to show that I paid more I
> >would own a Jag. Right now I am looking at getting my 3rd BMW now but I
> >am second guessing my choice of car. Someone re-convince me to buy BMW.
> >Plus I think the discussion alone is very interesting.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 10:14:45 -0700
From: "Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BMW Turbo Cars and Performance
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roy T. Collins wrote:
> I have been looking over BMW history recently and I am
> surprised that BMW does not have a current turbo car for
> gasoline powered engines.
Not a lot of turbos in BMW history.... BMW has never "officially" sold a
turbo gasoline engine car in the U.S., and never really sold many turbo
gasoline cars at all (there are not a lot of 2002 Turbos or 745i cars out
there)...
> With all the hype that turbo cars have been given lately you
> would think that BMW would have a turbo gasoline model. I mean
> they did create the X5 with the SUV craze. Does anyone know why
> BMW does not have a turbo car?
I don't think that turbo cars have had much "hype" outside of the import
street racing crowd. The modern street racer turbo engines will put any
legendary 60's muscle car to shame but are not the best choice to power the
typical family car. Most people in the BMW target demographic are between my
age and my parents age and when we think of turbo sedans we think of the
pile of crap early Chrysler turbos and the early Saab turbos that always
seemed to be in the shop. Someone posted that he knows "a lot of Saab
turbos with 500k miles on the original engine & turbo" and I'm guessing that
some of his friends may have "forgot" about that new turbo or short block
that they put in back when Reagan was in the White House (I know a lot of
people who always come home from Vegas with money because they "forget"
about the trips they make to the ATM)...
> All my friends are turbo dodge junkies and they have been hounding
> me to get one. My friends cars with a few inexpensive mods have the
> same performance as mine but end up costing half as much in the end,
> even after the cost of the mods.
You can buy a used Dodge Omni GLH turbo for about $1K and for less than the
cost of the sales tax and registration on a new BMW 325i you can modify the
Omni to beat the 325i at the drag strip. Most people buy BMWs because they
are an overall good value and an overall nice car to drive every day even if
they are not as fast as a modified turbo Dodge.
> If I wanted to pay more just to show that I paid more I
> would own a Jag. Right now I am looking at getting my 3rd
> BMW now but I am second guessing my choice of car. Someone
> re-convince me to buy BMW.
The new Jags have really improved since Ford bought the company. Jaguar has
not caught up to BMW, MBZ and Lexus in the quality department, but they are
not the piles of crap with nice leather and wood that they used to be... It
sounds like you might be happier with a new Dodge, so I won't try and talk
you in to buying another BMW....
Kevin Kelly
BMW CCA 50039
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 14:26:31 -0700
From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"E30 Yahoo Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Can I lower the rear sub-frame of my E30 325i without damaging the
bushings? It sure would make re-installation of the trailing arms
easier.
Please cc me directly on any replies. TIA.
Scott Miller
GGC BMW CCA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:37:43 -0400
From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: E30 Yahoo Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Take off the big nuts on the bottom. Subframe will not drop as aluminum
center tubes in the bushings are stuck in a recess in the body. From
the top, remove rear seat, find top of two bolts, bolts have no heads.
Drive bolts up from below. Take a piece of steel rod (I used an air
impact hammer) from above, knock said aluminum tubes (with bushings and
subframes, down and loose. Reassembly is reverse of removal.
Ed
Scott & Charlotte Miller wrote:
>Can I lower the rear sub-frame of my E30 325i without damaging the
>bushings? It sure would make re-installation of the trailing arms
>easier.
>
>Please cc me directly on any replies. TIA.
>
>Scott Miller
>GGC BMW CCA
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 15:09:02 -0700
From: "Scott & Charlotte Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ed MacVaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "E30 Yahoo Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ed, in searching the Web for related advice, I found this:
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/repair_faqs/subframe.html
This seems to be saying that I might be able to pry the subframe down
a bit without pounding out the aluminum center tube. My car is
generally rust-free. My only real concern here is wishing to avoid
damage to the bushings. I only need an inch or so of extra clearance,
so I don't need to completely remove the subframe.
So is this site's advice OK for my purpose, or do I really need to
drive out these tubes?
Thanks for the quick reply, and please cc me directly with any
responses.
Scott Miller
GGC BMW CCA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed MacVaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "E30 Yahoo Group" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [UUC] E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
> Take off the big nuts on the bottom. Subframe will not drop as
aluminum
> center tubes in the bushings are stuck in a recess in the body.
From
> the top, remove rear seat, find top of two bolts, bolts have no
heads.
> Drive bolts up from below. Take a piece of steel rod (I used an air
> impact hammer) from above, knock said aluminum tubes (with bushings
and
> subframes, down and loose. Reassembly is reverse of removal.
>
> Ed
>
> Scott & Charlotte Miller wrote:
>
> >Can I lower the rear sub-frame of my E30 325i without damaging the
> >bushings? It sure would make re-installation of the trailing arms
> >easier.
> >
> >Please cc me directly on any replies. TIA.
> >
> >Scott Miller
> >GGC BMW CCA
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 19:07:28 -0500
From: Jenny Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"[uucdigest] list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Scott & Charlotte Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: E30 Rear Sub-Frame Question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Be prepared for the possibility that the Pot metal centers of the
Subframe mount to break off at their tops.
This doesn't always happen but it can. And if it does, you ain't
driving no where til it's replaced!
Jenny Morgan
On Sep 4, 2004, at 4:37 PM, Ed MacVaugh wrote:
> Take off the big nuts on the bottom. Subframe will not drop as
> aluminum center tubes in the bushings are stuck in a recess in the
> body. From the top, remove rear seat, find top of two bolts, bolts
> have no heads. Drive bolts up from below. Take a piece of steel rod (I
> used an air impact hammer) from above, knock said aluminum tubes (with
> bushings and subframes, down and loose. Reassembly is reverse of
> removal.
>
> Ed
>
> Scott & Charlotte Miller wrote:
>
>> Can I lower the rear sub-frame of my E30 325i without damaging the
>> bushings? It sure would make re-installation of the trailing arms
>> easier.
>>
>> Please cc me directly on any replies. TIA.
>>
>> Scott Miller
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 18:44:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (bmw list)
Subject: E30 jack points and rust
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Some time ago, I discovered the only major rust on my E30 (so far). The
rusty bits are what I assume are jack points just forward of the front
doors. They are folded steel plates about 2-3 inches square and right up
against the outer edge of the car.
By luck, I was digging around through the ETK and came across what may be
replacement parts for this.
Drawing 00005137 shows the parts:
41351913759 "Jack Fixture"
and
41351913760 and 41351916470 both listed as "Bracked Jack Fixture"
Are these "Jack Fixtures" the parts I need to replace the crumbling bits up
front in my E30 (not counting the small perferations in the floor boards)?
-- Joe
--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Network Operations
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet
------------------------------
End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(13 messages)
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