The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 708 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: FW: Uninformed talk about US GP Re: Creaking etc. (part 2) Re: Creaking etc. (part 2) BMW V8 vs GM V8 Re: Black Box & Politics Re: Black Box & Politics Re: USGP F1 aka: Bridgestone Tire Test BMW going it alone Re: BMW going it alone <E30> timing belt Re: <E30> timing belt Re: Fuel Spillage Re: Fuel Spillage
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:57:00 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "BMW List" <[email protected]>, "Ferrari List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: FW: Uninformed talk about US GP Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Posted on the Rennlist. I think that Paul is being at least a little disingenous in a couple of instances, but it certainly conveys the Michelin POV. Interstingly, Todt has stated that he was never asked to agree to put in a chicane; perhaps because he knowingly refused to attend the meetings at which a chicane was discussed? vty, --Dennis >Here goes, from the horse's mouth ! What follows is a press release from the MinardiF1 team giving the views of Paul Stoddart. ( a bridgestone runner who took part in the race) "Much has been said about the farce that occurred on Sunday, June 19, in Indianapolis, and I feel that in the interests of transparency, it would be worthwhile for someone who was actually present, and participated in the discussions leading up to the start of the Grand Prix, to provide a truthful account of what took place, both for the 100,000-plus fans who were present, and for the hundreds of millions of people watching on television around the world. [...] it is common knowledge the manufacturers have proposed their own series commencing January 1, 2008, and this is supported by at least two of the independent teams. The general perception is that, in many instances, these issues have become personal, and it is my opinion that was a serious contributory factor to the failure to find a solution that would have allowed all 20 cars to compete in Sunday's United States Grand Prix. [...] A planned Minardi press briefing took place at 0930 hrs, and as it was ending, I was summoned to an urgent meeting, along with Jordan, with Bernie Ecclestone, the two most senior Michelin representatives present at the circuit, IMS President Tony George, Team Principals, and technical representatives from the Michelin teams. At this meeting, Michelin, to its credit, admitted that the tyres available were unable to complete a race distance around the Indianapolis circuit without a change to the track configuration, so as to reduce the speed coming out of the last turn onto the banking. Much background information was provided as to the enormous efforts that Michelin, with support from its teams, had undertaken in the preceding 48 hours to try and resolve the problem, but it was clear that all those efforts had failed to produce a suitable solution that wouldn't involve support from the non-Michelin teams, and ultimately, the FIA. What was requested of the Bridgestone teams was to allow a chicane to be constructed at Turn 13, which would then allow Michelin to advise their teams that, in their opinion, the tyres would be able to complete the race distance. It was made very clear that this was the only viable option available, as previous suggestions from the FIA, such as speed-limiting the Michelin cars through Turn 13, could, and probably would, give rise to a monumental accident. This idea, as well as one concerning the possibility of pit stops every 10 laps, were dismissed, and discussion returned to the only sensible solution - a chicane. During this discussion, a technical representative with specific knowledge of the Indianapolis circuit, together with representatives from IMS, were tasked with preparing the design of a chicane, and Bernie Ecclestone agreed to speak with the one Team Principal not present, Mr Todt, and to inform the FIA President, Max Mosley, who was not present at Indianapolis, of the planned solution to allow the successful running of the US Grand Prix. With only a few hours now remaining to the start of the race, we agreed to reconvene as soon as Bernie had responses from Messrs Todt and Mosley. At approximately 1055 hrs, Bernie informed us that not only would Mr Todt not agree, stating that it was not a Ferrari problem, but an FIA and a Michelin problem, but also Mr Mosley had stated that if any attempts were made to alter the circuit, he would cancel the Grand Prix forthwith. These words had a familiar tone to me, as they were similar to those I had heard around midnight on the Friday preceding the 2005 Australian Grand Prix, when I was told by all the senior FIA representatives present that the Australian Grand Prix would be cancelled forthwith if I did not withdraw pending legal action between Minardi and the FIA. Once again, Mr Mosley was not present at that Grand Prix! It is fair to say at this point that the vast majority of people present in the room both felt and stated that Mr Mosley had completely overstepped the mark, had no idea whatsoever of the gravity of the situation, and furthermore, cared even less about the US Grand Prix, its organisers, the fans, and indeed, the hundreds of millions of television viewers around the world who were going to be affected by his intransigence. [...]At this point, we called for all 20 drivers, and indeed, all 20 arrived, at which point we informed them of our plan. While I cannot testify that each and every driver agreed with what we were proposing, what I can say with certainty is that no driver disagreed, and indeed, members of the Grand Prix Drivers' Association discussed overseeing the construction of a suitable chicane. Jean Todt was the only significant team individual not present, and the Ferrari drivers stated this decision was up to Mr Todt. I feel it is important to stress that, at this stage, and mindful of the total impossibility - call it force majeure if you wish - of 14 cars being able to compete in the race, the nine teams represented agreed they would not take part in the race unless a solution was found in the interests of Formula One as a global sport, as it was clear to all present that the sport, and not the politics, had to prevail if we were to avoid an impending disaster. After a short break, we reconvened without the drivers. When I arrived in Bernie's office, Flavio Briatore was on the telephone to Mr Mosley, and it was quite clear from the body language of the others gathered in the room that Mr Mosley was having none of our suggestions. At the conclusion of the telephone call, it was obvious that many of those in the room had lost all faith in Mr Mosley and his ability to perform his function as President of the FIA in respect of Formula One matters. I'm sure this sentence will be treated with contempt by Mr Mosley, but what must be realised is that there are various reasons that other Team Principals, and the most senior people in Formula One, will not say publicly what they openly feel privately about Mr Mosley, his politics and his governance of the sport. There is a great temptation to go into those reasons in detail, but that is for another day. Suffice to say, those gathered at Indianapolis felt Mr Mosley, and to a lesser degree, the lack of co-operation from Mr Todt, were about to be responsible for the greatest FIAsco in Formula One's recent history. Discussions then took place concerning the other telephone calls with Mr Mosley from, among others, Bernie Ecclestone, Ron Dennis and Tony George, and it was clearly revealed to what extent Mr Mosley was prepared to go in order to achieve his aims. To my total disgust, it was stated that Mosley had informed Mr Martin, the FIA's most senior representative in the USA, that if any kind of non- championship race was run, or any alteration made to the circuit, the US Grand Prix, and indeed, all FIA-regulated motorsport in the US, would be under threat - again, exactly the same tactic that was used in threatening the Australian Grand Prix and Australian motorsport in March of this year. By now, it was evident Mosley had bullied the US Grand Prix promoter into submission, Bernie Ecclestone was powerless to intervene, and all efforts of the Team Principals, with the exception of Jean Todt, had failed to save the 2005 US Grand Prix. At this point, the pit lane had opened and a hasty discussion took place concerning whether or not the Michelin teams would go to the grid. A radio had been delivered to me by team personnel at this stage, and I was able to know which cars were going to the grid. It is interesting to note that the Jordan Team Principal was not present at this time, and indeed, it was the Jordans that first proceeded to the grid, followed by the Ferraris. After discussion with Bernie Ecclestone, it was agreed the Michelin teams would go to the grid, but were absolutely prevented from participating in the race because of the tyre situation. It is important for people to realise that Minardi, the seven Michelin teams, Bernie Ecclestone, and the promoters did not agree with Mr Mosley's tactics. For the reasons previously outlined, it may take some considerable time, if ever, for this to be admitted, but there is no question in my mind that the farce that occurred on Sunday, June 19, 2005 at Indianapolis was the responsibility of the FIA President, Max Mosley, and compounded by the lack of support from Jean Todt. For the avoidance of doubt, in my opinion, Michelin was responsible enough to admit that the problem was of their creation. When one considers that even the replacement, Barcelona-specification tyres that were shipped to IMS, when tested, apparently exhibited the same characteristics as those that originally failed, this clearly is a case of force majeure, as I do not for a moment believe that Michelin intentionally brought tyres to the event that were unsuitable for competition. Far more importantly, however, Mosley refused to accept any of the solutions offered, and that refusal was, I believe, politically motivated. Therefore, I feel he failed in his duty, and that is why I have called for his resignation. Much discussion and debate will undoubtedly take place over the coming weeks and months, but I believe this is a truthful and honest account of the facts, and not the fiction, surrounding the responsibility for this FIAsco. People can now make up their own minds!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:11:13 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Creaking etc. (part 2) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> check the nuts on the top of the struts to make sure they are tight, ditto all the nuts and bolts attaching the strut to the hub and finally check the subframe where the motor mounts are attached. They can and crack there and make a creaking sound. It's easier to see if it has cracked from the bottom looking up. Could also be the motor mounts may be loose. Marco -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Roger Langille Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 5:22 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [UUC] Creaking etc. (part 2) Thanks very much to John Bolhuis, and Rich Dorffer for their tips. I'll pursue both remedies. On closer inspection, I found I can duplicate the creaking simply by standing at the driver's side corner and pushing it down quickly. As a bonus, yet one more sound is produced - a metallic 'clink' as if a metal piece were striking a another loosely attached metal part. It's relatively high-pitched (hence the 'clink', as opposed to a 'clunk'. I know... this is beginning to sound like a Monty Python skit, or a Peter Sellers dialogue). Given that the sounds can be produced without turning the steering, I suspect that, while lubing the steering column bearing will no doubt be a good idea, there seem to be other things amiss. Your suggestions are welcome. Roger Langile '97 328ic (nosier by the minute) Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:16:14 -0400 From: CsWs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Marco Romani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Creaking etc. (part 2) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Swaybar links tend to be a culprit of many noises when worn -- Karl #747KP http://www.elephantmotorsports.com "The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:14:15 -0700 (PDT) From: kjk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: BMW V8 vs GM V8 Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> If it hasn't already been mentioned, Edge Motorworks used the BMW V8 so they could actually compete in a specific class. If they had used a GM V8 they would have either not been able to run or ran in some crazy class. All the details are right here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272547&highlight=edge+motorworks Kevin Kelly '91 (happy with my little 'ole 3.6) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:50:42 -0400 From: "John Weese" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Black Box & Politics Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey Jenny: Why don't you just express your feelings "openly"! :-) We'll just leave the curtain off your voting booth next time! Here's my Bimmer-related content...I love 2002's E30's & E28's...I "don't" like cars like the new 3 Series where I can't "physically" check my own oil..Am I set in my "old" ways..."you bet"...just like my ole friend Michel Potheau! Happy ///Motoring, John Weese Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:50:44 -0500 From: Jenny Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Uucdigest Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Black Box & Politics Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Keeping politics "personal" is how idiots, religious zealots and despots claim power. You go, Barry. Jenny Morgan On Jun 21, 2005, at 5:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hey Barry: > > Keep your political "rants" OFF The List!!!!!!! Helping you out Rob. > I'm > sure you merely missed this one. :-) > > John Weese > Nittany Bimmers > (Keeping my Politics "Personal" where it belongs!) > > <<In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Now back to my techy geeky occupation that helps pay for the gas > which has > doubled in cost since Shrub took office, and then to bicycle home from > work > burning none of it. > Argh, a good political rant like some of you hate and others of you > wish some > fool like me would dare venture to post. > Barry>> > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:36:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammer Farid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Black Box & Politics Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I've been "holding" my "tongue" for months on this "particular" issue, but could you PLEASE find yourself a copy of Strunk and White's "Elements of Style" and stop using the damned quotation marks for emphasis?! Thank you. Also, one exclamation point will usually suffice. -tammer --- John Weese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Jenny: > > Why don't you just express your feelings "openly"! :-) > We'll just leave the > curtain off your voting booth next time! > > Here's my Bimmer-related content...I love 2002's E30's & > E28's...I "don't" > like cars like the new 3 Series where I can't > "physically" check my own > oil..Am I set in my "old" ways..."you bet"...just like my > ole friend Michel > Potheau! > > Happy ///Motoring, > > John Weese > > Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:50:44 -0500 > From: Jenny Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Uucdigest Digest <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Black Box & Politics > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Keeping politics "personal" is how idiots, religious > zealots and > despots claim power. > > You go, Barry. > > Jenny Morgan > > > On Jun 21, 2005, at 5:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Hey Barry: > > > > Keep your political "rants" OFF The List!!!!!!! > Helping you out Rob. > > I'm > > sure you merely missed this one. :-) > > > > John Weese > > Nittany Bimmers > > (Keeping my Politics "Personal" where it belongs!) > > > > <<In a message dated 6/20/2005 9:53:35 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > Now back to my techy geeky occupation that helps pay > for the gas > > which has > > doubled in cost since Shrub took office, and then to > bicycle home from > > work > > burning none of it. > > Argh, a good political rant like some of you hate and > others of you > > wish some > > fool like me would dare venture to post. > > Barry>> > > Search the > > > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder > of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of > the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:52:00 -0700 From: John Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: USGP F1 aka: Bridgestone Tire Test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Personally, as a racer, I would have raced on the Michelins. I would have > either taken it easy in the suspect corner (if a reasonable solution) or > changed tires illegally, or done something -- the race teams had a > responsibility to the fans (can you say sponsors?). I'd bet the FIA would have happily looked the other way at teams exceeding their tire allotment. The Michelin teams would not have been competing for the lead at that point unless the Ferraris and Jordans broke (not *entirely* out of the question) but as I've said elsewhere I'd bet a McLaren could have made four or five stops and soft-pedaled turn 13 and still beat the Minardis. The Michelin teams in essence said "If you won't alter the rules so that we can run for the lead, we don't want to run at all." The FIA said "If you back off you can run, and we can't alter the track at this point anyway." Perhaps Michelin felt that from a marketing standpoint not running was better than the embarrassment of being beaten because their tires wouldn't hold up. In any case, the end result of the standoff IMO is that the FIA looks bad, but Michelin and their teams look worse. John. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:16:55 -0700 (PDT) From: wy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: BMW going it alone Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Rumors about BMW divorcing Williams being going on for a while. Here is the lastest news if anyone care about F1 anymore. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/4118472.stm Will Get Firefox! ____________________________________________________ Yahoo! Sports Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 16:32:17 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: BMW going it alone Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I still care about F1, but I think it's time we both see other races. We'll always be friends, but it's just not "the one". Hey, is the F1's sister race single? - Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "wy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Here is the lastest news if anyone care about F1 > anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:58:33 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: <E30> timing belt Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Can an E30 timing belt be replaced with the engine on an engine stand? Does it matter if the plugs are also removed (tension on the belt)? -Kevin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:13:06 -0500 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: <E30> timing belt Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes; no. Unless someone more knowledgeable says otherwise. I don't see what difference it makes if the engine is on a stand or not. Also, plugs being in or out should have not bearing on belt installation; I believe I've done it both ways. Clarence West Bend, WI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Can an E30 timing belt be replaced with the engine on an engine stand? Does > it matter if the plugs are also removed (tension on the belt)? > > -Kevin > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 14:35:28 -0400 From: "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Fuel Spillage Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hey Rich, last week I started smelling gas in the car ( '98 M3 ) and was thinking of the fuel pump... I'll take a look at it this w/e... Since I never done it before, was it hard to pull the back seats out? I think not but since you just did it I figured I'd check. Thx for the heads up! Stefano P.S. Now that I think about it I did have a minor power steering fluid leak a couple of weeks ago... In response to ------------- ... Driving home from work, I get a fairly strong smell of fuel. I had just filled up with gas and I thought to myself that I must be an idiot if I can't tighten a stupid gas cap. I pull off at the next exit, hit an ATM quick and I can still smell the fuel so I pull aside to check the gas cap. Well, it wasn't the gas cap, I didn't even really need to check it to know for certain as gas was spilling all over the ground underneath the car. I ran to turn it off and had already lost 1/2 tank of fuel. Then, I pushed the car forward to get away from the Exxon Valdez puddle on the asphalt to peer under the car. Other than the whole right underside being wet with fuel, I was baffled and couldn't believe with three cars, I wouldn't have one operating currently if I had the M3 towed (318is is at the body shop for some minor work, the 325is has a bad starter and the BMW reman I just bought and installed has a bad solenoid, talk about bad luck). Then it hit me, fuel line to the fuel pump. I pull the seat, pull the cover and find that the fuel line is barely still on the pump and is quite loose (fuel everywhere too). So, I slipped it back on, hobbled to Sears for a new clamp, sopped up the fuel and made my way home to let the car air out (and a little Febreeze....we'll see what that smells like by morning... :-) Moral of the story: If you have an E36 and you haven't replaced the stupid, OE BMW one-time use assembly clamps on the fuel pump (and various other areas of E36s like the power steering reservoir), do it, do it now. Otherwise, you may waste 1/2 tank of premium fuel which will cost you $20 these days while a fuel clamp costs $0.50 and is a little less adventuresome. Later, Rich ---------------- _____________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing, disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. _____________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Subject: Re: Fuel Spillage Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Stefano, The seat takes all of five seconds to remove. You just pull up from one or both leading front corners and it snaps out easily. Once removed, the fuel pump access is on the right side of the seat under some sound deadening material. Lift up the material, remove the four small screws on the panel and you will be staring at the top of the fuel pump and the suspect hose clamp. I did this in a bank parking lot with the screwdriver from the tool kit in a couple of minutes, it couldn't be easier. I recommend anyone that hasn't replaced this hose clamp on their E36 to go the very next store they see that sells hose clamps and perform this operation ASAP right in the parking lot. :-) Later, Rich --- "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey Rich, > last week I started smelling gas in the car ( '98 M3 ) and was > thinking of the fuel pump... I'll take a look at it this w/e... > > Since I never done it before, was it hard to pull the back seats out? > > I think not but since you just did it I figured I'd check. > > Thx for the heads up! > > Stefano > > P.S. > Now that I think about it I did have a minor power steering fluid leak a > couple of weeks ago... ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(13 messages) **********
