The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 71 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: [bmwuucdigest] digest(8 messages) Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Factory ride heights Was/ Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions...
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 07:47:23 -0800 From: "Gordo, Ping" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [bmwuucdigest] digest(8 messages) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 08:21:55 -0800 From: "Kirk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> SNIP SNIP > What's your tolerance for tire wear? I swapped the strut hats on my wife's 2002 M3 and it has *a lot* of camber, >probably -2.5 degree >... Thanks to Toyo Tires, this hasn't been a big financial burden! :-) Kirk, exactly what kind of discounts are you getting for the TOYOs? I can only afford the Kumhos. > This is simple. Take a drift punch and a hammer. Ping! No more little silver pin. Jack up a corner and loosen >>the strut hat nuts. Push top of strut in towards center of motor and retighten nuts. Repeat on other side. Done. You're going to have be more descriptive about this thing, Kirk. Using my name to describe a punch and hammer sound like that sometimes upsets me...but I'll let it slip this time.;-) Ping! SDBMWCCA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:27:34 -0800 From: Bob Sutterfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Keywords: BMW Ping Gordo wrote: > Using my name to describe a punch and hammer sound like that > sometimes upsets me...but I'll let it slip this time.;-) It's not a punch and hammer sound, it's a program that transmits an ICMP Echo-Request packet and measures the time to receive the returning Echo-Response. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 09:28:34 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I don't know the reason offhand, but I have observed that most aftermarket spring sets lower the car more in the front than in the back. But not knowing the reason does not mean that I don'g have an opinion. The more you lower the car, the more negative camber you'll have. This is good for the track but bad for tire wear on the street. Especially at the rear, BMWs have plenty of negative camber already. The lower the aspect ratio (profile) of your tires, the quicker excessive negative camber will wear out the inner edges of your tires. So lowering the rear less will add less excess negative camber and will result in longer tire wear. Then again, isn't rear camber adjustable on the E46? Lowering the rear more might not be so bad if you can dial out some of the camber. I'm currently running about 1.4 deg neg camber in the front of my E30 with 205/55-15 street tires. Wear on the inside edges of the front tires is not excessive. You can get quicker turn-in response with less toe-in, but the lower the aspect ratio of your tires, the more likely they are to tramline with less toe-in. You may have to experiment with various front toe settings. Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA >Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2006 12:34:51 -0500 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [email protected] >Subject: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I have a 2001 330Ci that came with the factory sport suspension. I put on >the Koni system shocks and struts with Koni springs, this system has >adjustable ride height using threaded adjusters. > >I initially lowered the front and rear 1". I think I will raise it, so that >it will be about a 1/2" lower than stock to give me a little extra ground >clearance. > >First question: > >Do the manufacturers of aftermarket springs drop the front more than the >rear for looks only or are there other reasons they don't drop the front and >rear equal amounts? > >Now for the alignment questions: > >What would be good alignment numbers for this car? I do four or five DE a >year, but don't want to kill my tire life for a track only set-up? <snip> >Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:25:58 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [email protected], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> In a message dated 17.02.2006 19:51:23 Westeuropäische Normalzeit, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 09:28 AM 2/17/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I don't know the reason offhand, but I have observed that most aftermarket >spring sets lower the car more in the front than in the back. But not >knowing the reason does not mean that I don'g have an opinion. I thought this was done purely for cosmetic reasons. BMWs and Mercedes in particular seem to have much larger fender openings in front than back, so I figure the spring makers just wanted to even out the gaps. .................... Hi Gang, I think one thing you are forgetting is that in the USA we have minimum bumper heights - thanks to our (lovely) Goverment. In the EU the laws are much more relaxed. When you look at the options list on a new BMWs(and other makes) lots of times there are two or three, or four suspension options. And THEN you also have the aftermarket stuff to deal with!!!! David Jalali Bamberg, Germany ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 10:48:22 -0800 From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 09:28 AM 2/17/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I don't know the reason offhand, but I have observed that most aftermarket >spring sets lower the car more in the front than in the back. But not >knowing the reason does not mean that I don'g have an opinion. I thought this was done purely for cosmetic reasons. BMWs and Mercedes in particular seem to have much larger fender openings in front than back, so I figure the spring makers just wanted to even out the gaps. >The more you lower the car, the more negative camber you'll have. This is >good for the track but bad for tire wear on the street. Especially at the >rear, BMWs have plenty of negative camber already. The lower the aspect >ratio (profile) of your tires, the quicker excessive negative camber will >wear out the inner edges of your tires. So lowering the rear less will add >less excess negative camber and will result in longer tire wear. Then >again, isn't rear camber adjustable on the E46? Lowering the rear more >might not be so bad if you can dial out some of the camber. I don't get the aspect ratio phenomenon, even though I observe it on my own cars. My two cars use the same overall tire diameters as well as section width. However, my E24 with way more negative rear camber but using 225/50/16s don't wear the insides the way my E46 using 225/40/18 with very little negative camber (stock ride height) does. Although, I've also noticed that the rear tire wear on my E46 varies with the model of tire as well. E46 rear camber is adjustable from the lower control arm's outer end eccentric, but only to a very limited degree. You really need the aftermarket adjustable arms to dial out lowered-car levels of camber, or dialing in more for track tuning. Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 11:11:47 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Factory ride heights Was/ Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Beside performance considerations, one effect of more front lowering than rear is for looks. Stock BMW wheel well heights are higher over the tire in front than rear. On some models the stock look has the appearance of ther front springs being too tall. Evening that out gives the car (imo) a nicer looking stance. Sometimes a BMW will come from the factory looking too tippy-toes, with bad handling to match, and actually will have been made with an incorrect front spring. An example was a 1995 318ti club sport which BMW ordered the selling dealer to buy back due to an inch above spec front ride, other factory defects, and a dealership that chose to lie and stonewall rather than correct real problems. Then it became an X-File. It is a story for another day about the dealership reselling the car as new without advising the new owner that it had been a lemon and previously titled. Then three out of the 200 US spec black 318ti club sport ending up by coincidence (or not?) parked at the same Pennsylvania state park at the same time, one of them being the lemon which the dealer illegally resold. Stranger yet, I then net up with on a hiking trail the new owner of that car. They had connections with the dealership's lawfirm. There were also curious strings the dealer attached to continuing its financial support of the local chapter, followed by the firing of all involved at the dealership after the scandal broke. The truth is out there.... Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I don't know the reason offhand, but I have observed that most aftermarket >spring sets lower the car more in the front than in the back. But not >knowing the reason does not mean that I don'g have an opinion. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 13:36:09 -0800 From: Kazuto Okayasu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: E-46 Modified Suspension/Alignment questions... Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At 01:25 PM 2/17/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >.................... > >Hi Gang, > >I think one thing you are forgetting is that in the USA we have minimum >bumper heights - thanks to our (lovely) Goverment. In the EU the >laws are much more >relaxed. When you look at the options list on a new BMWs(and other makes) >lots of times there are two or three, or four suspension options. >And THEN you >also have the aftermarket stuff to deal with!!!! But that should raise the height of the whole car (a recent example being the MkV VW GTI, which is a tad higher-riding in US spec for this reason). US-spec cars are still level; they are not nose-up, so the lowering springs aren't there to make up for this alone. And euro-market aftermarket kits do the same nose-down thing. In fact I'd bet most European companies sell the same stuff on both sides of the pond. >David Jalali >Bamberg, Germany Kazuto Okayasu Manager, Desktop Support Services Administrative Computing Services, University of California, Irvine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(7 messages) **********
