The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 373 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified pre-owned BMW Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified pre-owned BMW Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 10:03:10 -0500 From: Dennis Liu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified pre-owned BMW Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Very interesting. My personal $0.02: clearly, the consumer overreacted and did not allow the car to be repaired. OTOH, the dealership, Foreign Motors West of Natick, MA, completely shot themselves in the foot on the follow-up. And posting fake reviews about yourself? Forget it. Now, of course, this news story is out, and it will take a lot of effort to recover... Vty, --Dennis (not that far away from FMW) http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/01/21/this_is_a_pre_owned _bmw/ CONSUMER BEAT This is a pre-owned BMW It was purchased in April 2004. It has sat outside its buyer?s house since May 2004. What happened? And what does it say about buying a certified used car? By Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff | January 21, 2007 Bailey J. Riegelhaupt bought a "certified pre-owned BMW" from a Natick dealership in 2004 because she wanted to make sure her used vehicle was in tip-top condition. But five days after driving the vehicle home, Riegelhaupt said, the car was out of alignment, a concern she had raised before the purchase. She also said a chip of paint had fallen off the fender. A couple days later, she said, the air conditioning wasn't working properly and the brakes were squeaking. As she was working with Foreign Motors West of Natick to rectify those problems, the transmission failed. Her titanium silver 2000 BMW 323i, supposedly the focus of a 75-point, presale safety inspection, was stuck at her house in Randolph, unable to move. It has been sitting there ever since. "I feel completely deceived about the condition of this car," Riegelhaupt wrote in an e-mail to the dealership on May 9, 2004. "I took your word that this car got a thorough inspection before you put it on the lot and, more importantly, before you sold it to me." Officials at the dealership could not be reached for comment. But David Stein , the dealership's attorney, said, "I don't want to get into it with you on a discussion of certified vehicles." Certified used cars are supposed to give drivers peace of mind. They generally are lower-mileage cars that are two or three years old. They are run through a rigorous reconditioning process and sold with extended warranties. "They've tried to take used cars and turn it into a new car-buying experience," said Philip Reed , consumer advice editor at auto website Edmunds.com. "In general, it's been very good. If everything's done that they promise to do, it's as good as it gets." Industry analysts say the premium drivers pay for certification can range from $300 to $2,500, depending on the type of car and warranty. Approximately 1.6 million certified "pre-owned" vehicles were sold last year, almost four times as many as in 2000, according to Consumer Reports. Rob Gentile , director of auto pricing services for Consumer Reports, said the biggest problem with certified used cars is the lack of any industry standard for what certified means. Nearly every car maker runs a certification program, and many dealerships and used car lots sell certified cars as well. Terms vary from program to program. Art Kinsman , a spokesman for the American Automobile Association of Southern New England, recommended that anyone buying a certified used vehicle ask detailed questions about the certification process and the accompanying warranty and then take the vehicle to an independent mechanic to be checked. "Certification can be a good thing, but I wouldn't automatically assume it is," Kinsman said. "Just because it says 'certified,' don't assume you're getting four new tires and all new fluids. You need to ask what certified means." The car Riegelhaupt purchased was certified by Foreign Motors West, not BMW. It's unclear why the dealership certified the vehicle itself -- Foreign Motors West does sell BMW-certified cars -- but BMW spokeswoman Martha McKinley said nothing prohibits its dealerships from running their own certification programs. Used cars certified by BMW must be at least six months old or have 6,000 miles on the odometer but no more than 60,000 miles. They are inspected by BMW factory-trained technicians and come with a BMW warranty for two years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The warranty is in addition to the time or mileage remaining on the original four-year, 50,000-mile new vehicle warranty. There is a $50 fee for each repair visit at a BMW dealership. BMW says "only the best" vehicles qualify for the company's certified program. "If something is not right, it is fixed. If it cannot be fixed, the car cannot become a certified pre-owned BMW," the company's website says. "In short, we're picky." The car Foreign Motors West sold to Riegelhaupt had 58,000 miles on it. Riegelhaupt said the dealership told her it had undergone a 75-point safety inspection. It cost $19,726, including fees and taxes, plus another $1,462 for a 36-month or 36,000-mile warranty from General Electric. The warranty had a $100 deductible per repair visit. As she drove the car home on April 23, 2004, Riegelhaupt said, she was thrilled. But five days later things started to go wrong, culminating in the transmission failure on May 8. Riegelhaupt was so furious that she demanded her money back, but the dealership insisted on fixing whatever was wrong, in compliance with the warranty it had sold with the car. Riegelhaupt refused to relinquish the car without getting her money back. "I kept thinking, 'What's going to go wrong with this car next?' " she said in an interview last week. She sued Foreign Motors West, claiming breach of contract. She had no claim to a refund under the state's used vehicle warranty law because the vehicle hadn't been repaired three times for the same defect or out of service for 11 business days. In her suit, she asked for $23,000 in actual damages and additional money for attorney's fees, costs, and violations of the state's Consumer Protection Act. Riegelhaupt took the vehicle to an independent mechanic, who verified the transmission was shot. He also discovered a rusty dust cover on a shock. While the case dragged on, first in Norfolk Superior Court and later in Quincy District Court, Riegelhaupt continued to drive her 1996 Maxima but kept making loan and insurance payments on the BMW sitting next to her house. As part of the discovery process, Riegelhaupt said, she obtained a Carfax vehicle history report that indicated the car had been in an accident in May 2002. Riegelhaupt, who owns The Bridal Secret in Quincy, started posting complaints about Foreign Motors West on a website called Dealerrater.com, giving the dealership the lowest possible scores. Chip Grueter , who owns the Waltham website, said Foreign Motors West responded by posing as consumers and posting three superlative reviews about the dealership on Dealerrater. Grueter said he took the "fraudulent reviews" down and posted a warning about the dealership on the website for nine months. Stein , the dealership's attorney, said he was not aware of any postings on Dealerrater. Two months ago, Riegelhaupt won a partial victory in court. A jury awarded her a total of $24,000 in damages, but the judge rejected her claim under the Consumer Protection Act and did not award any attorney's fees or additional compensation. The case remains contentious. The car still sits at Riegelhaupt's house, waiting to be picked up by the dealership, and her attorney collected the judgment by sending a constable to the dealership. Riegelhaupt is still angry and feels the certification process in her case was a sham. "They lied to me, and they deceived me," she said. Bruce Mohl can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] C Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 08:30:29 -0800 From: Mark Gold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: BMW list <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified pre-owned BMW Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Nice article although the URL doesn't work. I agree that she overreacted a bit. That being said, the dealership should have stepped up to the plate and at a minimum, offered to cover all repair costs instead of her having to shell out $100 per repair. They could have been real sports and taken the vehicle back in exchange for another. On Jan 21, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Dennis Liu wrote: > Very interesting. My personal $0.02: clearly, the consumer > overreacted and > did not allow the car to be repaired. OTOH, the dealership, > Foreign Motors > West of Natick, MA, completely shot themselves in the foot on the > follow-up. > And posting fake reviews about yourself? Forget it. Now, of > course, this > news story is out, and it will take a lot of effort to recover... > > Vty, > > --Dennis > (not that far away from FMW) > > > http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/01/21/ > this_is_a_pre_owned > _bmw/ > > CONSUMER BEAT > This is a pre-owned BMW > It was purchased in April 2004. It has sat outside its buyer?s > house since > May 2004. What happened? And what does it say about buying a > certified used > car? > > By Bruce Mohl, Globe Staff | January 21, 2007 > > Bailey J. Riegelhaupt bought a "certified pre-owned BMW" from a Natick > dealership in 2004 because she wanted to make sure her used vehicle > was in > tip-top condition. > > But five days after driving the vehicle home, Riegelhaupt said, the > car was > out of alignment, a concern she had raised before the purchase. She > also > said a chip of paint had fallen off the fender. A couple days > later, she > said, the air conditioning wasn't working properly and the brakes were > squeaking. > > As she was working with Foreign Motors West of Natick to rectify those > problems, the transmission failed. Her titanium silver 2000 BMW 323i, > supposedly the focus of a 75-point, presale safety inspection, was > stuck at > her house in Randolph, unable to move. It has been sitting there > ever since. > > "I feel completely deceived about the condition of this car," > Riegelhaupt > wrote in an e-mail to the dealership on May 9, 2004. "I took your > word that > this car got a thorough inspection before you put it on the lot > and, more > importantly, before you sold it to me." > > Officials at the dealership could not be reached for comment. But > David > Stein , the dealership's attorney, said, "I don't want to get into > it with > you on a discussion of certified vehicles." > > Certified used cars are supposed to give drivers peace of mind. They > generally are lower-mileage cars that are two or three years old. > They are > run through a rigorous reconditioning process and sold with extended > warranties. > > "They've tried to take used cars and turn it into a new car-buying > experience," said Philip Reed , consumer advice editor at auto website > Edmunds.com. "In general, it's been very good. If everything's done > that > they promise to do, it's as good as it gets." > > Industry analysts say the premium drivers pay for certification can > range > from $300 to $2,500, depending on the type of car and warranty. > Approximately 1.6 million certified "pre-owned" vehicles were sold > last > year, almost four times as many as in 2000, according to Consumer > Reports. > > Rob Gentile , director of auto pricing services for Consumer > Reports, said > the biggest problem with certified used cars is the lack of any > industry > standard for what certified means. Nearly every car maker runs a > certification program, and many dealerships and used car lots sell > certified > cars as well. Terms vary from program to program. > > Art Kinsman , a spokesman for the American Automobile Association of > Southern New England, recommended that anyone buying a certified used > vehicle ask detailed questions about the certification process and the > accompanying warranty and then take the vehicle to an independent > mechanic > to be checked. > > "Certification can be a good thing, but I wouldn't automatically > assume it > is," Kinsman said. "Just because it says 'certified,' don't assume > you're > getting four new tires and all new fluids. You need to ask what > certified > means." > > The car Riegelhaupt purchased was certified by Foreign Motors West, > not BMW. > It's unclear why the dealership certified the vehicle itself -- > Foreign > Motors West does sell BMW-certified cars -- but BMW spokeswoman Martha > McKinley said nothing prohibits its dealerships from running their own > certification programs. > > Used cars certified by BMW must be at least six months old or have > 6,000 > miles on the odometer but no more than 60,000 miles. They are > inspected by > BMW factory-trained technicians and come with a BMW warranty for > two years > or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The warranty is in addition > to the > time or mileage remaining on the original four-year, 50,000-mile > new vehicle > warranty. There is a $50 fee for each repair visit at a BMW > dealership. > > BMW says "only the best" vehicles qualify for the company's certified > program. "If something is not right, it is fixed. If it cannot be > fixed, the > car cannot become a certified pre-owned BMW," the company's website > says. > "In short, we're picky." > > The car Foreign Motors West sold to Riegelhaupt had 58,000 miles on > it. > Riegelhaupt said the dealership told her it had undergone a 75- > point safety > inspection. It cost $19,726, including fees and taxes, plus another > $1,462 > for a 36-month or 36,000-mile warranty from General Electric. The > warranty > had a $100 deductible per repair visit. > > As she drove the car home on April 23, 2004, Riegelhaupt said, she was > thrilled. But five days later things started to go wrong, > culminating in the > transmission failure on May 8. > > Riegelhaupt was so furious that she demanded her money back, but the > dealership insisted on fixing whatever was wrong, in compliance > with the > warranty it had sold with the car. > > Riegelhaupt refused to relinquish the car without getting her money > back. "I > kept thinking, 'What's going to go wrong with this car next?' " she > said in > an interview last week. > > She sued Foreign Motors West, claiming breach of contract. She had > no claim > to a refund under the state's used vehicle warranty law because the > vehicle > hadn't been repaired three times for the same defect or out of > service for > 11 business days. In her suit, she asked for $23,000 in actual > damages and > additional money for attorney's fees, costs, and violations of the > state's > Consumer Protection Act. > > Riegelhaupt took the vehicle to an independent mechanic, who > verified the > transmission was shot. He also discovered a rusty dust cover on a > shock. > > While the case dragged on, first in Norfolk Superior Court and > later in > Quincy District Court, Riegelhaupt continued to drive her 1996 > Maxima but > kept making loan and insurance payments on the BMW sitting next to her > house. > > As part of the discovery process, Riegelhaupt said, she obtained a > Carfax > vehicle history report that indicated the car had been in an > accident in May > 2002. > > Riegelhaupt, who owns The Bridal Secret in Quincy, started posting > complaints about Foreign Motors West on a website called > Dealerrater.com, > giving the dealership the lowest possible scores. > > Chip Grueter , who owns the Waltham website, said Foreign Motors West > responded by posing as consumers and posting three superlative > reviews about > the dealership on Dealerrater. > > Grueter said he took the "fraudulent reviews" down and posted a > warning > about the dealership on the website for nine months. > > Stein , the dealership's attorney, said he was not aware of any > postings on > Dealerrater. > > Two months ago, Riegelhaupt won a partial victory in court. A jury > awarded > her a total of $24,000 in damages, but the judge rejected her claim > under > the Consumer Protection Act and did not award any attorney's fees or > additional compensation. > > The case remains contentious. The car still sits at Riegelhaupt's > house, > waiting to be picked up by the dealership, and her attorney > collected the > judgment by sending a constable to the dealership. > > Riegelhaupt is still angry and feels the certification process in > her case > was a sham. "They lied to me, and they deceived me," she said. > > Bruce Mohl can be reached at [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > C Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/ > [email protected] > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the > BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 11:37:58 -0500 From: Matt Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: BMW list <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Try this: http://tinyurl.com/25qpyl Matt Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 02:27:37 +0000 (UTC) From: "Christopher Anrig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I am bringing my '03 330i to the the dealer tomorrow for service b/c I got a transimssion warning light and it went into emergency transmssion mode. Bought my car in November, and it has 8,000 mi on it. In light of the article, how concerned should I be...it was a shot tranny? Any suggestions on how to manage it with the dealer? Although I have not done it yet, I think I will have an independent check it out. Thanks, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:44:33 -0500 From: "Rich Dorffer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This entire article was about a Mercedes Benz dealer, not a BMW dealer and not BMW's used car certification process. If your car is under BMW warranty, take it to the BMW dealer. Regards, Rich On 1/21/07, Christopher Anrig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am bringing my '03 330i to the the dealer tomorrow for service b/c I got a > transimssion warning light and it went into emergency transmssion mode. > Bought my car in November, and it has 8,000 mi on it. In light of the > article, how concerned should I be...it was a shot tranny? Any suggestions on > how to manage it with the dealer? Although I have not done it yet, I think I > will have an independent check it out. > > Thanks, > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:48:36 -0500 From: KMS- Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Rich Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, uuc Digest <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I already deleted the link, but Foreign Motors West is a BMW dealership. They may have other lines. I didn't note the article saying anything about them being a non BMW dealer, just that it wasn't a BMW certified car, it was a FMW certified car, whatever that means. Brett Anderson KMS Rich Dorffer wrote: > This entire article was about a Mercedes Benz dealer, not a BMW dealer > and not BMW's used car certification process. > > If your car is under BMW warranty, take it to the BMW dealer. > > Regards, > > Rich > > On 1/21/07, Christopher Anrig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I am bringing my '03 330i to the the dealer tomorrow for service b/c I >> got a transimssion warning light and it went into emergency >> transmssion mode. Bought my car in November, and it has 8,000 mi on >> it. In light of the article, how concerned should I be...it was a shot >> tranny? Any suggestions on how to manage it with the dealer? Although >> I have not done it yet, I think I will have an independent check it out. >> >> Thanks, >> Chris > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:23:27 -0500 From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]>, "'Rich Dorffer'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Foreign Motors West is a BMW, Mercedes and Rolls Royce dealer. They are big supporters of the BMW CCA Boston Chapter, hold quarterly meetings there with a nice food and drink spread, have friendly salespeople and stand behind their product. I have bought about a dozen cars there, either for my wife and I or friends. Their service department and service manager (Lance Mitchell) have bent over backwards for me on several occasions and I know that they have done the same for many others. I am sure they tried to do the right thing for this person. Sounds like she wanted her money back and that's it - not necessarily a reasonable request. Of course, reading the article, you can tell that the car was "FMW Certified" and not "BMW Certified" since it had been in a collision. There are other strict rules on what BMW will and won't let the dealers call "BMW Certified". What that basically means is that it's a used car off a lot that FMW offers a warranty on - that's it. There is still lemon law protection on used cars - but she didn't qualify. Ah, well... I still think the best values on BMWs are the BMW Certified Pre-Owned as someone else has taken the depreciation and you often get a LONGER warranty than you otherwise would. And for anyone who's reading this, Foreign Motors West is a really great dealership with great people. ...and I don't work for them! :-) -Mike Gilbert Natick, MA -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KMS- Brett Anderson Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 9:49 PM To: Rich Dorffer; uuc Digest Subject: Re: [UUC] Boston Globe article on a DEALER (not BMW) certified I already deleted the link, but Foreign Motors West is a BMW dealership. They may have other lines. I didn't note the article saying anything about them being a non BMW dealer, just that it wasn't a BMW certified car, it was a FMW certified car, whatever that means. Brett Anderson KMS Rich Dorffer wrote: > This entire article was about a Mercedes Benz dealer, not a BMW dealer > and not BMW's used car certification process. > > If your car is under BMW warranty, take it to the BMW dealer. > > Regards, > > Rich > > On 1/21/07, Christopher Anrig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I am bringing my '03 330i to the the dealer tomorrow for service b/c I >> got a transimssion warning light and it went into emergency >> transmssion mode. Bought my car in November, and it has 8,000 mi on >> it. In light of the article, how concerned should I be...it was a shot >> tranny? Any suggestions on how to manage it with the dealer? Although >> I have not done it yet, I think I will have an independent check it out. >> >> Thanks, >> Chris > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(7 messages) **********
