Thanks much, Matt. Have a muffin and/or a beer :-)
-Ben B > I'm truly sorry. > > Sometimes it's easy to forget during the course of a discussion that > everyone's viewpoint is shaped by their own life experiences. I approach > this type of discourse as more of a mental exercise than personal, so it's > easy to forget that there is another person's feelings at the other end. > > My own dislike for generalizations come from my extreme contempt for all the > pain stupidity/stereotypes have caused. Racism, the crusades, etc, what a > waste of time. > > I think it is really impossible to separate one's convictions, opinions, > emotions, and experiences into separate things. Even in a purely "logical" > debate, which I approach these types of discussions as. All of those things > make us who we are, and it is we who are sharing thoughts. If anything, > I'll leave this with a little better sense of consideration for others, and > perhaps open my mind a bit more when talking. I have a nasty habit of > forcing the other person to either prove me wrong or agree with me, rather > than listening to how they might be right... > > Matt > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:33 PM > >>To: CF-Community > >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat) > >> > >>Matt- > >> > >>yo, peace. > >> > >>also in fairness need to point out that I probably have > >>asthma because my Mom smoked while pregnant and while I > >>was a little kid, and that I watched my Mom die of lung > >>cancer which spread to her brain. > >> > >>-Ben > >> > >>> :P > >>> > >>> Thanks, Ben. > >>> > >>> Everything I said was meant in good humor, more for the purpose of > >>> discussion. I enjoy a good fiery debate as much as the next person. > >>> > >>> I get a little ornery with mass generalizations; though, truthfully, > >>said > >>> generalizations were more inferred by me than directly stated. > >>> > >>> Peace, yo. > >>> > >>> > >>> Matt - smoking heavily in an air-tight closet at home for higher > >>insurance > >>> premiums in your tommorrow > >>> > >>> >>-----Original Message----- > >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:13 PM > >>> >>To: CF-Community > >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat) > >>> >> > >>> >>Matthew- > >>> >> > >>> >>If you are that considerate a smoker, then I applaud > >>> >>you, sir, and wish there were more people like you. > >>> >> > >>> >>Sorry if you got the impression I was lumping you in > >>> >>with a homogeneous group. Wasn't saying all smokers are > >>> >>the same. > >>> >> > >>> >>-Ben > >>> >>> Well, that's the thing. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I felt I was lumped with ALL smokers, I felt all smokers were being > >>> >>lumped > >>> >>> together as inconsiderate a**holes blowing directly into your face, > >>and > >>> >>I > >>> >>> don't like that kind of generalization. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I am considerate, always ask if whoever is around minds my smoke. > >>If > >>> >>> someone objects, then I don't smoke, or I go somewhere else. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I even ask other smokers sometimes: if we are dining together, I > >>have > >>> >>> finished eating and they have not, I ask if they mind if I light up. > >>I > >>> >>once > >>> >>> had a friend who smoked but couldn't stand it if someone else smoked > >>> >>while > >>> >>> they were eating. She was the only smoker I knew who was like that, > >>but > >>> >>> since then, I always ask. No one has said "yes, please wait", but I > >>> >>still > >>> >>> ask. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I know a lot of inconsiderate non-smokers, too. Ever had to listen > >>to a > >>> >>> throbbing bass track at a stop light? Even seen a KKK rally? > >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they > >>> >>clearly > >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste > >>of > >>> >>> >>money, > >>> >>> >>> >>etc. I mean come on, get a grip! > >>> >>> > >>> >>> I've thought about quitting, but just don't want to yet. I like it. > >>> >>> Really. Just like I enjoy a beer or a good whiskey. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> And that's where my first response came from. It's my choice. I > >>don't > >>> >>> understand why I should be forced to defend it. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- > >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:45 PM > >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community > >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's > >>fat) > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>Here you go indeed > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>We aren't talking about designated smoking area that non- > >>> >>> >>smokers can readily avoid. Yes, you're right, the > >>> >>> >>supervisor *chose* to come talk with you there. We're > >>> >>> >>talking about people who do *not* chose to share your > >>> >>> >>smoke but might be forced to. > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>And we are talking about *direct* health effects, not > >>> >>> >>indirect or financial. Breathing smoke directly affects > >>> >>> >>my health. > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>-Ben > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> (here we go) > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>that they're causing my > >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they > >>claim > >>> >>is > >>> >>> >>> >>their right. > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> Let's see, when I take a smoke at work, I walk outside, about 30 > >>> >>yards > >>> >>> >>to a > >>> >>> >>> designated smoking area. The only others around are other > >>smokers. > >>> >>How > >>> >>> >>are > >>> >>> >>> you affected? > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> Funny that you mention this. Yesterday, I and two other smokers > >>> >>were > >>> >>> >>out at > >>> >>> >>> the smoking area. Our supervisor happened to walk out there to > >>talk > >>> >>to > >>> >>> >>us. > >>> >>> >>> She is a non-smoker. She could have waited 5 minutes, and > >>talked to > >>> >>us > >>> >>> >>in > >>> >>> >>> the office. She chose to join us. Were we forcing her to > >>smoke? > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> OK, your SUV uses too much gas, you can't have it. Your guns > >>(or > >>> >>those > >>> >>> >>of > >>> >>> >>> other gun owners) are used in to many crimes, you can't have > >>them. > >>> >>Your > >>> >>> >>> fast food is making you fat and I have to pay for your heath > >>care, > >>> >>no > >>> >>> >>more > >>> >>> >>> for you. > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> Your sedentary life style is causing health problems, you are > >>> >>required > >>> >>> >>to be > >>> >>> >>> in front of my house at 4:30 for mandatory exercise. You better > >>be > >>> >>> >>there. > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> No, you can't think that way, it bothers me. Think the way I > >>tell > >>> >>you. > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> Matt > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- > >>> >>> >>> >>From: Ben Arledge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:25 PM > >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community > >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because > >>he's > >>> >>fat) > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>I have to agree with Ben here. There sure are a lot of Ben's > >>here. > >>> >>:) > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Most smokers just don't seem to understand that they're > >>causing my > >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they > >>claim > >>> >>is > >>> >>> >>> >>their right. > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>I personally regard most smokers in the same group as potheads > >>> >>because > >>> >>> >>> >>it's stupid and makes no sense. I would avoid hiring a smoker, > >>and > >>> >>I'm > >>> >>> >>> >>seeing more and more companies thinking the same way. Smoking > >>in > >>> >>any > >>> >>> >>> >>restaurants here is prohibited now. Yes! > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Here in Canada (read in a study a couple years ago) it's > >>actually > >>> >>> >>> >>cheaper for the government if citizens smoke and die early > >>from > >>> >>> >>> >>cancer/etc. than live longer and use health care resources for > >>age > >>> >>> >>> >>related ailments. With that in mind, I'm more accepting that > >>> >>people > >>> >>> >>> >>smoke but if someone wants to smoke around me, prepare to have > >>> >>your > >>> >>> >>> >>personal space violated. > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>And I think Tim Heald has it backwards. If he wants to smoke, > >>he > >>> >>> >>should > >>> >>> >>> >>stay home and away from the rest of us. > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they > >>> >>clearly > >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste > >>of > >>> >>> >>money, > >>> >>> >>> >>etc. I mean come on, get a grip! > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Anybody else feel the same way? Or disagree? :) > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Cheers, > >>> >>> >>> >>Ben > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- > >>> >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:43 AM > >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community > >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>Tim- > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>you say "I am a smoker ... It's my body..." > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>If you can equate your right to smoke with your right to > >>> >>> >>> >>eat Big Macs, you're forgetting an important point: > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>When you smoke near other people, the side-stream > >>> >>> >>> >>(second-hand) smoke is being forced on them. > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>When you eat, it directly affects only you. > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>are you taking responsibility for the effect your > >>> >>> >>> >>personal decision to smoke has on them? > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>I am an asthmatic. If you exercise your personal rights > >>> >>> >>> >>and smoke around me, what about *my* right to breathe? > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>-Ben > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >>> I would have to say that maybe it's not all that different > >>than > >>> >>> >>> >>smoking. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Everyone knows both products are bad for them. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> 2. The people who whine about each the most are either > >>> >>hypocrites > >>> >>> >>> >>(still > >>> >>> >>> >>> using the product) or they are former users. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> I think suing the cigarette manufacturers (especially if you > >>> >>win) is > >>> >>> >>> >>just as > >>> >>> >>> >>> stupid as this. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> I am a smoker. I know it causes cancer and all sorts of > >>other > >>> >>> >>> >>problems. > >>> >>> >>> >>> It's my body and I know I am personally responsible for my > >>> >>actions > >>> >>> >>> >>where > >>> >>> >>> >>> smoking (or a big mac) are concerned. How is it that the > >>nation > >>> >>> >>that > >>> >>> >>> >>was > >>> >>> >>> >>> founded on the idea that personal rights and > >>responsibilities > >>> >>far > >>> >>> >>out > >>> >>> >>> >>way > >>> >>> >>> >>> those of the community, has fallen to such a low. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> Bah, makes me sick sometimes just thinking about it. Oh > >>well > >>> >>"Who > >>> >>> >>is > >>> >>> >>> >>John > >>> >>> >>> >>> Gault?". > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone feel like helping me start a community of people of > >>> >>ability > >>> >>> >>> >>somewhere > >>> >>> >>> >>> in the woods. We'll run a couple of T-3s out there and call > >>it a > >>> >>> >>day. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> What was it called? Galt's Gulch? > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim Heald > >>> >>> >>> >>> Developer > >>> >>> >>> >>> Schoollink, Inc. > >>> >>> >>> >>> 910.223.2116 x 122 > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- > >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: Bill Wheatley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 1:24 PM > >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: CF-Community > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Re: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > ahh not this again!! :) Maybe we'll get lucky and the > >>greedy > >>> >>SOB > >>> >>> >>> >>> > will have a > >>> >>> >>> >>> > blocked artery and then he can sue them for his stroke > >>too. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > WaAAAA I'm fat cause I am addicted to big macs. Get off it > >>> >>dude. > >>> >>> >>> >>This is > >>> >>> >>> >>> > completely different then smoking, you have to draw the > >>line > >>> >>of > >>> >>> >>> >>personal > >>> >>> >>> >>> > responsibility somewhere. Just like these morons that > >>spill > >>> >>> >>burning > >>> >>> >>> >>hot > >>> >>> >>> >>> > coffee on their crotch. AHH how did that happen?? > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Oh was it the fact you had it between your legs duh > >>moron!. > >>> >>I'm > >>> >>> >>glad > >>> >>> >>> >>you > >>> >>> >>> >>> > cant reproduce because you obviously come from a defect > >>> >>genetic > >>> >>> >>line > >>> >>> >>> >>lol. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bill Wheatley > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Senior Database Developer > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Macromedia Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer > >>> >>> >>> >>> > EDIETS.COM > >>> >>> >>> >>> > 954.360.9022 X159 > >>> >>> >>> >>> > ICQ 417645 > >>> >>> >>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: "Howie Hamlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:57 AM > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,58652,00.html/ > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > NEW YORK - Want a class-action lawsuit with that burger? > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > A New York City lawyer has filed suit against the four > >>big > >>> >>> >>> >>fast-food > >>> >>> >>> >>> > corporations, saying their fatty foods are > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > responsible for his client's obesity and related health > >>> >>> >>problems. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Samuel Hirsch filed his lawsuit Wednesday at a New York > >>> >>state > >>> >>> >>> >>> > court in the > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bronx, alleging that McDonald's, Burger King, > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Wendy's and KFC Corporation are irresponsible and > >>deceptive > >>> >>in > >>> >>> >>> >>> > the posting > >>> >>> >>> >>> > of their nutritional information, that they > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > need to offer healthier options on their menus, and that > >>> >>they > >>> >>> >>> >>> > create a de > >>> >>> >>> >>> > facto addiction in their consumers, > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > particularly the poor and children. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > "You don't need nicotine or an illegal drug to create an > >>> >>> >>> >>> > addiction, you're > >>> >>> >>> >>> > creating a craving," Hirsch said. "I think > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > we'll find that the fast-food industry has not been > >>totally > >>> >>up > >>> >>> >>> >>> > front with > >>> >>> >>> >>> > the consumers." > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > The suit does not specify the amount of damages Hirsch > >>and > >>> >>his > >>> >>> >>> >>> > client are > >>> >>> >>> >>> > seeking. > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> > >>> >> > >>> > >> > ______________________________________________________________________ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
