Thanks much, Matt.

Have a muffin and/or a beer :-)

-Ben B
> I'm truly sorry.
> 
> Sometimes it's easy to forget during the course of a discussion that
> everyone's viewpoint is shaped by their own life experiences.  I approach
> this type of discourse as more of a mental exercise than personal, so it's
> easy to forget that there is another person's feelings at the other end.
> 
> My own dislike for generalizations come from my extreme contempt for all the
> pain stupidity/stereotypes have caused.  Racism, the crusades, etc, what a
> waste of time.
> 
> I think it is really impossible to separate one's convictions, opinions,
> emotions, and experiences into separate things.  Even in a purely "logical"
> debate, which I approach these types of discussions as.  All of those things
> make us who we are, and it is we who are sharing thoughts.  If anything,
> I'll leave this with a little better sense of consideration for others, and
> perhaps open my mind a bit more when talking.  I have a nasty habit of
> forcing the other person to either prove me wrong or agree with me, rather
> than listening to how they might be right...
> 
> Matt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:33 PM
> >>To: CF-Community
> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat)
> >>
> >>Matt-
> >>
> >>yo, peace.
> >>
> >>also in fairness need to point out that I probably have
> >>asthma because my Mom smoked while pregnant and while I
> >>was a little kid, and that I watched my Mom die of lung
> >>cancer which spread to her brain.
> >>
> >>-Ben
> >>
> >>> :P
> >>>
> >>> Thanks, Ben.
> >>>
> >>> Everything I said was meant in good humor, more for the purpose of
> >>> discussion.  I enjoy a good fiery debate as much as the next person.
> >>>
> >>> I get a little ornery with mass generalizations; though, truthfully,
> >>said
> >>> generalizations were more inferred by me than directly stated.
> >>>
> >>> Peace, yo.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Matt - smoking heavily in an air-tight closet at home for higher
> >>insurance
> >>> premiums in your tommorrow
> >>>
> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:13 PM
> >>> >>To: CF-Community
> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat)
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Matthew-
> >>> >>
> >>> >>If you are that considerate a smoker, then I applaud
> >>> >>you, sir, and wish there were more people like you.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>Sorry if you got the impression I was lumping you in
> >>> >>with a homogeneous group. Wasn't saying all smokers are
> >>> >>the same.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>-Ben
> >>> >>> Well, that's the thing.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I felt I was lumped with ALL smokers, I felt all smokers were being
> >>> >>lumped
> >>> >>> together as inconsiderate a**holes blowing directly into your face,
> >>and
> >>> >>I
> >>> >>> don't like that kind of generalization.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I am considerate, always ask if whoever is around minds my smoke.
> >>If
> >>> >>> someone objects, then I don't smoke, or I go somewhere else.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I even ask other smokers sometimes: if we are dining together, I
> >>have
> >>> >>> finished eating and they have not, I ask if they mind if I light up.
> >>I
> >>> >>once
> >>> >>> had a friend who smoked but couldn't stand it if someone else smoked
> >>> >>while
> >>> >>> they were eating.  She was the only smoker I knew who was like that,
> >>but
> >>> >>> since then, I always ask.  No one has said "yes, please wait", but I
> >>> >>still
> >>> >>> ask.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I know a lot of inconsiderate non-smokers, too.  Ever had to listen
> >>to a
> >>> >>> throbbing bass track at a stop light?  Even seen a KKK rally?
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they
> >>> >>clearly
> >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste
> >>of
> >>> >>> >>money,
> >>> >>> >>> >>etc.  I mean come on, get a grip!
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> I've thought about quitting, but just don't want to yet.  I like it.
> >>> >>> Really.  Just like I enjoy a beer or a good whiskey.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> And that's where my first response came from.  It's my choice.  I
> >>don't
> >>> >>> understand why I should be forced to defend it.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:45 PM
> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community
> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's
> >>fat)
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>Here you go indeed
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>We aren't talking about designated smoking area that non-
> >>> >>> >>smokers can readily avoid. Yes, you're right, the
> >>> >>> >>supervisor *chose* to come talk with you there. We're
> >>> >>> >>talking about people who do *not* chose to share your
> >>> >>> >>smoke but might be forced to.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>And we are talking about *direct* health effects, not
> >>> >>> >>indirect or financial. Breathing smoke directly affects
> >>> >>> >>my health.
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>-Ben
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> (here we go)
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>that they're causing my
> >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they
> >>claim
> >>> >>is
> >>> >>> >>> >>their right.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Let's see, when I take a smoke at work, I walk outside, about 30
> >>> >>yards
> >>> >>> >>to a
> >>> >>> >>> designated smoking area.  The only others around are other
> >>smokers.
> >>> >>How
> >>> >>> >>are
> >>> >>> >>> you affected?
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Funny that you mention this.  Yesterday, I and two other smokers
> >>> >>were
> >>> >>> >>out at
> >>> >>> >>> the smoking area.  Our supervisor happened to walk out there to
> >>talk
> >>> >>to
> >>> >>> >>us.
> >>> >>> >>> She is a non-smoker.  She could have waited 5 minutes, and
> >>talked to
> >>> >>us
> >>> >>> >>in
> >>> >>> >>> the office.  She chose to join us.  Were we forcing her to
> >>smoke?
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> OK, your SUV uses too much gas, you can't have it.  Your guns
> >>(or
> >>> >>those
> >>> >>> >>of
> >>> >>> >>> other gun owners) are used in to many crimes, you can't have
> >>them.
> >>> >>Your
> >>> >>> >>> fast food is making you fat and I have to pay for your heath
> >>care,
> >>> >>no
> >>> >>> >>more
> >>> >>> >>> for you.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Your sedentary life style is causing health problems, you are
> >>> >>required
> >>> >>> >>to be
> >>> >>> >>> in front of my house at 4:30 for mandatory exercise.  You better
> >>be
> >>> >>> >>there.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> No, you can't think that way, it bothers me.  Think the way I
> >>tell
> >>> >>you.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> You will be assimilated.  Resistance is futile.
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> Matt
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>> >>> >>> >>From: Ben Arledge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:25 PM
> >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community
> >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because
> >>he's
> >>> >>fat)
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>I have to agree with Ben here. There sure are a lot of Ben's
> >>here.
> >>> >>:)
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Most smokers just don't seem to understand that they're
> >>causing my
> >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they
> >>claim
> >>> >>is
> >>> >>> >>> >>their right.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>I personally regard most smokers in the same group as potheads
> >>> >>because
> >>> >>> >>> >>it's stupid and makes no sense. I would avoid hiring a smoker,
> >>and
> >>> >>I'm
> >>> >>> >>> >>seeing more and more companies thinking the same way. Smoking
> >>in
> >>> >>any
> >>> >>> >>> >>restaurants here is prohibited now. Yes!
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Here in Canada (read in a study a couple years ago) it's
> >>actually
> >>> >>> >>> >>cheaper for the government if citizens smoke and die early
> >>from
> >>> >>> >>> >>cancer/etc. than live longer and use health care resources for
> >>age
> >>> >>> >>> >>related ailments. With that in mind, I'm more accepting that
> >>> >>people
> >>> >>> >>> >>smoke but if someone wants to smoke around me, prepare to have
> >>> >>your
> >>> >>> >>> >>personal space violated.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>And I think Tim Heald has it backwards. If he wants to smoke,
> >>he
> >>> >>> >>should
> >>> >>> >>> >>stay home and away from the rest of us.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they
> >>> >>clearly
> >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste
> >>of
> >>> >>> >>money,
> >>> >>> >>> >>etc.  I mean come on, get a grip!
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Anybody else feel the same way?  Or disagree?  :)
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Cheers,
> >>> >>> >>> >>Ben
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>> >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:43 AM
> >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community
> >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>Tim-
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>you say "I am a smoker ... It's my body..."
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>If you can equate your right to smoke with your right to
> >>> >>> >>> >>eat Big Macs, you're forgetting an important point:
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>When you smoke near other people, the side-stream
> >>> >>> >>> >>(second-hand) smoke is being forced on them.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>When you eat, it directly affects only you.
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>are you taking responsibility for the effect your
> >>> >>> >>> >>personal decision to smoke has on them?
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>I am an asthmatic. If you exercise your personal rights
> >>> >>> >>> >>and smoke around me, what about *my* right to breathe?
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>-Ben
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> I would have to say that maybe it's not all that different
> >>than
> >>> >>> >>> >>smoking.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> 1.  Everyone knows both products are bad for them.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2. The people who whine about each the most are either
> >>> >>hypocrites
> >>> >>> >>> >>(still
> >>> >>> >>> >>> using the product) or they are former users.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> I think suing the cigarette manufacturers (especially if you
> >>> >>win) is
> >>> >>> >>> >>just as
> >>> >>> >>> >>> stupid as this.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> I am a smoker.  I know it causes cancer and all sorts of
> >>other
> >>> >>> >>> >>problems.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> It's my body and I know I am personally responsible for my
> >>> >>actions
> >>> >>> >>> >>where
> >>> >>> >>> >>> smoking (or a big mac) are concerned.  How is it that the
> >>nation
> >>> >>> >>that
> >>> >>> >>> >>was
> >>> >>> >>> >>> founded on the idea that personal rights and
> >>responsibilities
> >>> >>far
> >>> >>> >>out
> >>> >>> >>> >>way
> >>> >>> >>> >>> those of the community, has fallen to such a low.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bah, makes me sick sometimes just thinking about it.  Oh
> >>well
> >>> >>"Who
> >>> >>> >>is
> >>> >>> >>> >>John
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gault?".
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone feel like helping me start a community of people of
> >>> >>ability
> >>> >>> >>> >>somewhere
> >>> >>> >>> >>> in the woods. We'll run a couple of T-3s out there and call
> >>it a
> >>> >>> >>day.
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> What was it called?  Galt's Gulch?
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim Heald
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Developer
> >>> >>> >>> >>> Schoollink, Inc.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> 910.223.2116 x 122
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: Bill Wheatley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 1:24 PM
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: CF-Community
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Re: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > ahh not this again!! :) Maybe we'll get lucky and the
> >>greedy
> >>> >>SOB
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > will have a
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > blocked artery and then he can sue them for his stroke
> >>too.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > WaAAAA I'm fat cause I am addicted to big macs. Get off it
> >>> >>dude.
> >>> >>> >>> >>This is
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > completely different then smoking, you have to draw the
> >>line
> >>> >>of
> >>> >>> >>> >>personal
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > responsibility somewhere. Just like these morons that
> >>spill
> >>> >>> >>burning
> >>> >>> >>> >>hot
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > coffee on their crotch. AHH how did that happen??
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Oh was it the fact you had it between your legs duh
> >>moron!.
> >>> >>I'm
> >>> >>> >>glad
> >>> >>> >>> >>you
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > cant reproduce because you obviously come from a defect
> >>> >>genetic
> >>> >>> >>line
> >>> >>> >>> >>lol.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bill Wheatley
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Senior Database Developer
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Macromedia Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > EDIETS.COM
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > 954.360.9022 X159
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > ICQ 417645
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: "Howie Hamlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:57 AM
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,58652,00.html/
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > NEW YORK - Want a class-action lawsuit with that burger?
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > A New York City lawyer has filed suit against the four
> >>big
> >>> >>> >>> >>fast-food
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > corporations, saying their fatty foods are
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > responsible for his client's obesity and related health
> >>> >>> >>problems.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Samuel Hirsch filed his lawsuit Wednesday at a New York
> >>> >>state
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > court in the
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bronx, alleging that McDonald's, Burger King,
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Wendy's and KFC Corporation are irresponsible and
> >>deceptive
> >>> >>in
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > the posting
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > of their nutritional information, that they
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > need to offer healthier options on their menus, and that
> >>> >>they
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > create a de
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > facto addiction in their consumers,
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > particularly the poor and children.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > "You don't need nicotine or an illegal drug to create an
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > addiction, you're
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > creating a craving," Hirsch said. "I think
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > we'll find that the fast-food industry has not been
> >>totally
> >>> >>up
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > front with
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > the consumers."
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > > The suit does not specify the amount of damages Hirsch
> >>and
> >>> >>his
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > client are
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > seeking.
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> > >
> >>> >>> >>> >>> >
> >>> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> >>
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>
> >>>
> >>
> 
______________________________________________________________________
Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more 
resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm

Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists

Reply via email to