I'm truly sorry. Sometimes it's easy to forget during the course of a discussion that everyone's viewpoint is shaped by their own life experiences. I approach this type of discourse as more of a mental exercise than personal, so it's easy to forget that there is another person's feelings at the other end.
My own dislike for generalizations come from my extreme contempt for all the pain stupidity/stereotypes have caused. Racism, the crusades, etc, what a waste of time. I think it is really impossible to separate one's convictions, opinions, emotions, and experiences into separate things. Even in a purely "logical" debate, which I approach these types of discussions as. All of those things make us who we are, and it is we who are sharing thoughts. If anything, I'll leave this with a little better sense of consideration for others, and perhaps open my mind a bit more when talking. I have a nasty habit of forcing the other person to either prove me wrong or agree with me, rather than listening to how they might be right... Matt >>-----Original Message----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:33 PM >>To: CF-Community >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat) >> >>Matt- >> >>yo, peace. >> >>also in fairness need to point out that I probably have >>asthma because my Mom smoked while pregnant and while I >>was a little kid, and that I watched my Mom die of lung >>cancer which spread to her brain. >> >>-Ben >> >>> :P >>> >>> Thanks, Ben. >>> >>> Everything I said was meant in good humor, more for the purpose of >>> discussion. I enjoy a good fiery debate as much as the next person. >>> >>> I get a little ornery with mass generalizations; though, truthfully, >>said >>> generalizations were more inferred by me than directly stated. >>> >>> Peace, yo. >>> >>> >>> Matt - smoking heavily in an air-tight closet at home for higher >>insurance >>> premiums in your tommorrow >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 3:13 PM >>> >>To: CF-Community >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat) >>> >> >>> >>Matthew- >>> >> >>> >>If you are that considerate a smoker, then I applaud >>> >>you, sir, and wish there were more people like you. >>> >> >>> >>Sorry if you got the impression I was lumping you in >>> >>with a homogeneous group. Wasn't saying all smokers are >>> >>the same. >>> >> >>> >>-Ben >>> >>> Well, that's the thing. >>> >>> >>> >>> I felt I was lumped with ALL smokers, I felt all smokers were being >>> >>lumped >>> >>> together as inconsiderate a**holes blowing directly into your face, >>and >>> >>I >>> >>> don't like that kind of generalization. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am considerate, always ask if whoever is around minds my smoke. >>If >>> >>> someone objects, then I don't smoke, or I go somewhere else. >>> >>> >>> >>> I even ask other smokers sometimes: if we are dining together, I >>have >>> >>> finished eating and they have not, I ask if they mind if I light up. >>I >>> >>once >>> >>> had a friend who smoked but couldn't stand it if someone else smoked >>> >>while >>> >>> they were eating. She was the only smoker I knew who was like that, >>but >>> >>> since then, I always ask. No one has said "yes, please wait", but I >>> >>still >>> >>> ask. >>> >>> >>> >>> I know a lot of inconsiderate non-smokers, too. Ever had to listen >>to a >>> >>> throbbing bass track at a stop light? Even seen a KKK rally? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they >>> >>clearly >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste >>of >>> >>> >>money, >>> >>> >>> >>etc. I mean come on, get a grip! >>> >>> >>> >>> I've thought about quitting, but just don't want to yet. I like it. >>> >>> Really. Just like I enjoy a beer or a good whiskey. >>> >>> >>> >>> And that's where my first response came from. It's my choice. I >>don't >>> >>> understand why I should be forced to defend it. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:45 PM >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because he's >>fat) >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>Here you go indeed >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>We aren't talking about designated smoking area that non- >>> >>> >>smokers can readily avoid. Yes, you're right, the >>> >>> >>supervisor *chose* to come talk with you there. We're >>> >>> >>talking about people who do *not* chose to share your >>> >>> >>smoke but might be forced to. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>And we are talking about *direct* health effects, not >>> >>> >>indirect or financial. Breathing smoke directly affects >>> >>> >>my health. >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>-Ben >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> (here we go) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>that they're causing my >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they >>claim >>> >>is >>> >>> >>> >>their right. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Let's see, when I take a smoke at work, I walk outside, about 30 >>> >>yards >>> >>> >>to a >>> >>> >>> designated smoking area. The only others around are other >>smokers. >>> >>How >>> >>> >>are >>> >>> >>> you affected? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Funny that you mention this. Yesterday, I and two other smokers >>> >>were >>> >>> >>out at >>> >>> >>> the smoking area. Our supervisor happened to walk out there to >>talk >>> >>to >>> >>> >>us. >>> >>> >>> She is a non-smoker. She could have waited 5 minutes, and >>talked to >>> >>us >>> >>> >>in >>> >>> >>> the office. She chose to join us. Were we forcing her to >>smoke? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> OK, your SUV uses too much gas, you can't have it. Your guns >>(or >>> >>those >>> >>> >>of >>> >>> >>> other gun owners) are used in to many crimes, you can't have >>them. >>> >>Your >>> >>> >>> fast food is making you fat and I have to pay for your heath >>care, >>> >>no >>> >>> >>more >>> >>> >>> for you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your sedentary life style is causing health problems, you are >>> >>required >>> >>> >>to be >>> >>> >>> in front of my house at 4:30 for mandatory exercise. You better >>be >>> >>> >>there. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> No, you can't think that way, it bothers me. Think the way I >>tell >>> >>you. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> >>From: Ben Arledge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 2:25 PM >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Smokers (was: Man uses fast food chains because >>he's >>> >>fat) >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>I have to agree with Ben here. There sure are a lot of Ben's >>here. >>> >>:) >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Most smokers just don't seem to understand that they're >>causing my >>> >>> >>> >>headaches or other ailments because I'm breathing what they >>claim >>> >>is >>> >>> >>> >>their right. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>I personally regard most smokers in the same group as potheads >>> >>because >>> >>> >>> >>it's stupid and makes no sense. I would avoid hiring a smoker, >>and >>> >>I'm >>> >>> >>> >>seeing more and more companies thinking the same way. Smoking >>in >>> >>any >>> >>> >>> >>restaurants here is prohibited now. Yes! >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Here in Canada (read in a study a couple years ago) it's >>actually >>> >>> >>> >>cheaper for the government if citizens smoke and die early >>from >>> >>> >>> >>cancer/etc. than live longer and use health care resources for >>age >>> >>> >>> >>related ailments. With that in mind, I'm more accepting that >>> >>people >>> >>> >>> >>smoke but if someone wants to smoke around me, prepare to have >>> >>your >>> >>> >>> >>personal space violated. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>And I think Tim Heald has it backwards. If he wants to smoke, >>he >>> >>> >>should >>> >>> >>> >>stay home and away from the rest of us. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Also, I don't understand how smokers can defend something they >>> >>clearly >>> >>> >>> >>know is unhealthy, harms others (even if unintentional), waste >>of >>> >>> >>money, >>> >>> >>> >>etc. I mean come on, get a grip! >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Anybody else feel the same way? Or disagree? :) >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Cheers, >>> >>> >>> >>Ben >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>-----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> >>> >>> >>Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:43 AM >>> >>> >>> >>To: CF-Community >>> >>> >>> >>Subject: RE: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>Tim- >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>you say "I am a smoker ... It's my body..." >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>If you can equate your right to smoke with your right to >>> >>> >>> >>eat Big Macs, you're forgetting an important point: >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>When you smoke near other people, the side-stream >>> >>> >>> >>(second-hand) smoke is being forced on them. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>When you eat, it directly affects only you. >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>are you taking responsibility for the effect your >>> >>> >>> >>personal decision to smoke has on them? >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>I am an asthmatic. If you exercise your personal rights >>> >>> >>> >>and smoke around me, what about *my* right to breathe? >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>-Ben >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> I would have to say that maybe it's not all that different >>than >>> >>> >>> >>smoking. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 1. Everyone knows both products are bad for them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 2. The people who whine about each the most are either >>> >>hypocrites >>> >>> >>> >>(still >>> >>> >>> >>> using the product) or they are former users. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I think suing the cigarette manufacturers (especially if you >>> >>win) is >>> >>> >>> >>just as >>> >>> >>> >>> stupid as this. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I am a smoker. I know it causes cancer and all sorts of >>other >>> >>> >>> >>problems. >>> >>> >>> >>> It's my body and I know I am personally responsible for my >>> >>actions >>> >>> >>> >>where >>> >>> >>> >>> smoking (or a big mac) are concerned. How is it that the >>nation >>> >>> >>that >>> >>> >>> >>was >>> >>> >>> >>> founded on the idea that personal rights and >>responsibilities >>> >>far >>> >>> >>out >>> >>> >>> >>way >>> >>> >>> >>> those of the community, has fallen to such a low. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bah, makes me sick sometimes just thinking about it. Oh >>well >>> >>"Who >>> >>> >>is >>> >>> >>> >>John >>> >>> >>> >>> Gault?". >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone feel like helping me start a community of people of >>> >>ability >>> >>> >>> >>somewhere >>> >>> >>> >>> in the woods. We'll run a couple of T-3s out there and call >>it a >>> >>> >>day. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> What was it called? Galt's Gulch? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Tim Heald >>> >>> >>> >>> Developer >>> >>> >>> >>> Schoollink, Inc. >>> >>> >>> >>> 910.223.2116 x 122 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: Bill Wheatley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 1:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: CF-Community >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Re: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > ahh not this again!! :) Maybe we'll get lucky and the >>greedy >>> >>SOB >>> >>> >>> >>> > will have a >>> >>> >>> >>> > blocked artery and then he can sue them for his stroke >>too. >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > WaAAAA I'm fat cause I am addicted to big macs. Get off it >>> >>dude. >>> >>> >>> >>This is >>> >>> >>> >>> > completely different then smoking, you have to draw the >>line >>> >>of >>> >>> >>> >>personal >>> >>> >>> >>> > responsibility somewhere. Just like these morons that >>spill >>> >>> >>burning >>> >>> >>> >>hot >>> >>> >>> >>> > coffee on their crotch. AHH how did that happen?? >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Oh was it the fact you had it between your legs duh >>moron!. >>> >>I'm >>> >>> >>glad >>> >>> >>> >>you >>> >>> >>> >>> > cant reproduce because you obviously come from a defect >>> >>genetic >>> >>> >>line >>> >>> >>> >>lol. >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bill Wheatley >>> >>> >>> >>> > Senior Database Developer >>> >>> >>> >>> > Macromedia Certified Advanced Coldfusion Developer >>> >>> >>> >>> > EDIETS.COM >>> >>> >>> >>> > 954.360.9022 X159 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ICQ 417645 >>> >>> >>> >>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> >>> >>> > From: "Howie Hamlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>> >>> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>> >>> > Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 11:57 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> > Subject: Man uses fast food chains because he's fat >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,58652,00.html/ >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > NEW YORK - Want a class-action lawsuit with that burger? >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > A New York City lawyer has filed suit against the four >>big >>> >>> >>> >>fast-food >>> >>> >>> >>> > corporations, saying their fatty foods are >>> >>> >>> >>> > > responsible for his client's obesity and related health >>> >>> >>problems. >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Samuel Hirsch filed his lawsuit Wednesday at a New York >>> >>state >>> >>> >>> >>> > court in the >>> >>> >>> >>> > Bronx, alleging that McDonald's, Burger King, >>> >>> >>> >>> > > Wendy's and KFC Corporation are irresponsible and >>deceptive >>> >>in >>> >>> >>> >>> > the posting >>> >>> >>> >>> > of their nutritional information, that they >>> >>> >>> >>> > > need to offer healthier options on their menus, and that >>> >>they >>> >>> >>> >>> > create a de >>> >>> >>> >>> > facto addiction in their consumers, >>> >>> >>> >>> > > particularly the poor and children. >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > "You don't need nicotine or an illegal drug to create an >>> >>> >>> >>> > addiction, you're >>> >>> >>> >>> > creating a craving," Hirsch said. "I think >>> >>> >>> >>> > > we'll find that the fast-food industry has not been >>totally >>> >>up >>> >>> >>> >>> > front with >>> >>> >>> >>> > the consumers." >>> >>> >>> >>> > > The suit does not specify the amount of damages Hirsch >>and >>> >>his >>> >>> >>> >>> > client are >>> >>> >>> >>> > seeking. >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > > >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
