Hi Uma, Thank you very much for proposing me as Chair for Apache Mnemonic project.
Hi Mentors and PPMCs Looks I have no enough permission to update the content of https://whimsy4.apache.org/roster/ppmc/mnemonic <http://whimsy.apache.org/roster> , Could you please help and guide us to correct those issues pointed out by Uma? Thanks! Very truly yours Gary On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Gangumalla, Uma <uma.ganguma...@intel.com> wrote: > Hi Gary, > > https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/ppmc/mnemonic has draft resolution > option. > Need to choose a chair. I propose you(Gary Wong) as Chair for Apache > Mnemonic project if no other objections. (Do we need vote for this) > > Also it says, resolution can be reviewed in private list. > > > From that whimsy.apache.org/roster > Below things needs to be corrected. > 1. > Licensing > * No Software Grant and No IP Clearance Filed > * No Release Yet/Missing ASF Copyright Headers on Source Code > * No Release Yet/Binary has licensing issues > > 2. PPMC/Committers in this project are not listed there > > 3. Prior board report is not linked to June month report. > > > > Regards, > Uma > > > On 9/7/17, 11:16 AM, "Gary Wong" <qich...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Got it, Thanks for the guidance, We are going to start the official vote. > >we have also prepared a draft of Graduation resolution for your review, > >Thanks! > > > >https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MNEMONIC/ > Graduation+Resolution > > > >On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com> > >wrote: > > > >> To do official VOTE thread we need to have proposed board resolution for > >> the TLP. > >> > >> - Henry > >> > >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Gary Wong <qich...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Patrick and Mentors > >> > > >> > Thank you for the input and guidance. > >> > > >> > I have visited the following page that you mentioned, it looks there > >>are > >> > some broken links. > >> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> graduation_check_list > >> > > >> > I paste two key sections here as a checklist for verification > >> > > >> > - > >> > > >> > Preparations > >> > - > >> > > >> > Complete (and sign off) tasks documented in the status file > >> > > >><https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes-status> > >> > Yes, it is up-to-date > >> > - > >> > > >> > Ensure suitable names > >> > > >><https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes-names> > >> > for > >> > project name and product names > >> > Approved, > >>https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH- > >> 95 > >> > - > >> > > >> > Demonstrate ability to create Apache releases > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#releases> > >> > Release 8 versions and another one is WIP, involved 3 release > >> > managers > >> > - > >> > > >> > Demonstrate community readiness > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community> > >> > Our contributors come from different companies and show the > >> diversity > >> > and working on different components, all changes have been > >>reviewed > >> > and > >> > trackable. we have an open, positive and inclusive atmosphere > >>for > >> the > >> > discussion > >> > - > >> > > >> > Ensure Mentors > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_ > >> > Responsibilities.html#Mentor> > >> > and IPMC > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_ > >> > > >>Responsibilities.html#Incubator+Project+Management+Committee+%28PMC%29> > >> > have no remaining issues > >> > > >><https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes-issues> > >> > We have taken actions on issues from the discussion of > >>graduation > >> and > >> > fulfilled the Apache maturity assessment > >> > > >> > > >>https://docs.google.com/document/d/10LKTjPMceV4s4MrSRIA9L8pg7jLFp > >> > -ec-TmW96mZbXM/edit?usp=sharing > >> > - > >> > > >> > Decide upon destination > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > subproject-or-top-level> > >> > Would be Top-Level Project > >> > - > >> > > >> > Prepare a resolution > >> > > >><https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution> > >> > *(top > >> > level candidates only)*. > >> > We will prepare our resolution according to > >> > > >> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > submission_of_the_resolution_to_the_board > >> > template > >> > > >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/private/committers/board/ > >> > templates/podling-tlp-resolution.txt > >> > and some samples > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CRUNCH/ > >> > Graduation+Resolution > >> > > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FINERACT/ > >> > Graduation+Resolution > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/DATAFU/ > >> > Graduation+Resolution > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MADLIB/ > >> > Graduation+Resolution > >> > The resolution should be proposed on the general incubator list > >> > <gene...@incubator.apache.org> before a *VOTE > >> > <http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html>* is started to > allow > >> > feedback > >> > - > >> > > >> > Subproject acceptance *VOTE* > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > subproject-acceptance> > >> > by destination Project *(*subproject* candidates only)* > >> > NA > >> > - > >> > > >> > Incubator PMC (IPMC) > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Roles_and_ > >> > > >>Responsibilities.html#Incubator+Project+Management+Committee+%28PMC%29> > >> > : > >> > - > >> > > >> > For top level candidates, this is a recommendation *VOTE* > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#ipmc- > >> > top-level-recommendation> > >> > See below. > >> > > >> > - > >> > > >> > For subproject candidates, this is a graduation approval *VOTE* > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > subproject-graduation> > >> > NA > >> > - > >> > > >> > Final hand-over > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#notes- > >> on-hand-over > >> > > > >> > - > >> > > >> > Consider post graduation tasks > >> > <https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > project-first-steps> > >> > > >> > > >> > Graduation to a top level project requires: > >> > > >> > - > >> > > >> > a charter for your project > >> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> preparing_a_charter > >> > - > >> > > >> > a positive community graduation VOTE > >> > <http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html> > >> > > >> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > community_graduation_vote > >> > - > >> > > >> > a positive IPMC recommendation VOTE > >> > <http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html> > >> > I have not found a template for this vote, but we can refer to > >>other > >> > project's vote. > >> > Samples > >> > > >> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator- > >> > general/201709.mbox/%3CCAOqetn_+Oub4Gtr4=hOv= > >> > cLeMYB0i=xeewkoxibpg1v+cwa...@mail.gmail.com%3E > >> > - > >> > > >> > the acceptance of the resolution > >> > > >><https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution> > >> by > >> > the Board > >> > > >> > > >> > so our next step would be to prepare a resolution, please help to > >>verify > >> it > >> > and guide us to complete those steps for graduation, Thanks! > >> > > >> > Very truly yours > >> > Gary. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > ps. > >> > > > >> > > > 3) Many contributed have voted +1s for this graduation > >> > > > >> > > keep in mind that this is the discussion thread and not a vote. Note > >> (see > >> > > the link to grad doc I just provided) that you need to do a couple > >> things > >> > > before the vote. > >> > > > >> > > Patrick > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> > >>wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > I reviewed the status page earlier today and it looks up to date > >>to > >> me. > >> > > > http://incubator.apache.org/projects/mnemonic.html > >> > > > > >> > > > Similarly the "preparation" steps have been followed afaict: > >> > > > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html# > >> > > graduation_check_list > >> > > > namesearch > >><https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH- > >> 95 > >> > > > >> > > > etc... signed off a while ago > >> > > > > >> > > > Patrick > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Gang(Gary) Wang <ga...@apache.org > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > >> Let me summarize the discussion on graduation, Please refer to > >>this > >> > > email > >> > > >> thread for details. > >> > > >> > >> > > >> 1) We have completed the website of Mnemonic that is required > >>before > >> > > >> graduation > >> > > >> http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/ > >> > > >> > >> > > >> 2) We have filled the Apache project maturity assessment for > >> Mnemonic > >> > > and > >> > > >> fixed all gaps that would be helpful for graduation > >> > > >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10LKTjPMceV4s4MrSRIA9L8pg > >> > > >> 7jLFp-ec-TmW96mZbXM/edit?usp=sharing > >> > > >> > >> > > >> 3) Many contributed have voted +1s for this graduation > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Please add yours if any before we are starting graduation votes, > >> > Thanks! > >> > > >> > >> > > >> Cheers > >> > > >> Gary > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Gang(Gary) Wang > >><ga...@apache.org> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >> > >> > > >>> Hi John, Mentors and PPMCs > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> Looks no new issues crop up for a few days, and many > >>contributors > >> are > >> > > >>> positive and voted +1s for graduation, no negative from our > >> > community, > >> > > so I > >> > > >>> think this discussion could be settled down today and proceed to > >> > > collect > >> > > >>> votes from our community and IPMCs for graduation, please guide > >>us > >> if > >> > > any > >> > > >>> missing, misunderstanding and suggestion, Thanks! > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>> Gary > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:18 PM, Gang(Gary) Wang < > >> ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>> wrote: > >> > > >>> > >> > > >>>> Hi John, Mentors and PPMCs > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Looks we have resolved all the issues that you have pointed out > >> for > >> > > >>>> graduation, meanwhile, there are more contributors +1 for our > >> > > project's > >> > > >>>> graduation so, could we start the community graduation vote and > >> IPMC > >> > > >>>> graduation vote according to the following chart extracted from > >> > > >>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community ? > >> > > Thanks! > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> [image: Inline image 1] > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>> Gary > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Wen Tong <pures...@gmail.com > > > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>>> +1 support for graduation. > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Wei HE <hevei...@gmail.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> > +1 support for graduation. > >> > > >>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> > Wei HE > >> > > >>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 4:40 PM, Gang(Gary) Wang < > >> > ga...@apache.org > >> > > > > >> > > >>>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes, I also totally agree this and we will try our best for > >> the > >> > > >>>>> readiness > >> > > >>>>> >> for the graduation. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> For the suggestion that John advised, we have prepared the > >> > > following > >> > > >>>>> >> comments for your review, Thanks! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *CD20 - You have a link in your header called GITHUB that > >> > brought > >> > > >>>>> me to > >> > > >>>>> >> your source code. Other projects use hacking guides. > >>Unless > >> > > >>>>> you're on > >> > > >>>>> >> gitbox, the git primary repo should be the ASF hosted > >>repos.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> The github link has been removed from CD20 and using > >> > > >>>>> >> http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/develop/ as the link > >>of > >> > > >>>>> website. we > >> > > >>>>> >> also create ticket MNEMONIC-355 (resolved) to remove Github > >> link > >> > > >>>>> from > >> > > >>>>> >> navigator menu on website. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *CD30 - The usage of docker is in of itself a violation of > >> this > >> > > >>>>> item, from > >> > > >>>>> >> my point of view. In your case, you're pointing to > >> > > "centos:latest" > >> > > >>>>> which > >> > > >>>>> >> today is C7.2, but in a few months will be C7.3.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes, we will fix it through Apache Jira > >>MNEMONIC-353(reviewed) > >> > and > >> > > >>>>> >> MNEMONIC-356(WIP) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *CD50 - I can't tell if the pull requests to your repo are > >> from > >> > > >>>>> committers > >> > > >>>>> >> or from contributors. If I take > >> > > >>>>> >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mnemonic/pull/60 > >> > > >>>>> >> <https://github.com/apache/incubator-mnemonic/pull/60> as > >>an > >> > > >>>>> example, the > >> > > >>>>> >> commit message says nothing about provenance of the source > >> > code.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> We have requested to revoke all stalled PRs, and all commit > >> > > >>>>> messages must > >> > > >>>>> >> contain Apache JIRA number and title. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *LC50 - You mention in your response why this is incorrect > >> (the > >> > > use > >> > > >>>>> of > >> > > >>>>> >> *most*)* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes we will correct it with "The files in the project > >>source > >> > > >>>>> repository > >> > > >>>>> >> have appropriate headers", The files under target/ that > >> > generated > >> > > >>>>> by mvn > >> > > >>>>> >> building process would be excluded and all other project > >>files > >> > > have > >> > > >>>>> been > >> > > >>>>> >> properly licensed and guarded by RAT plugin. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *RE10 - You link to http://mnemonic.incubator. > >> apache.org/news/ > >> > > >>>>> >> <http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/news/> but that > >>doesn't > >> > > >>>>> include any > >> > > >>>>> >> download links. http://mnemonic.incubator. > >> > apache.org/downloads/ > >> > > >>>>> >> <http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/downloads/> does > >> include > >> > > >>>>> download > >> > > >>>>> >> links to the proper release mirrors.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> That has been corrected by replacing it with the link > >> > > >>>>> >> http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/downloads/ > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *RE20 - You mention non-PMC members in the vote (PPMC).* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes, we started with the community vote for releasing and > >>the > >> > > result > >> > > >>>>> >> explicitly shows binding and non-binding votes. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *RE30 - Again, not using mirror.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Looks no mirror link in this field. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *RE40 - Correct answer would be "NO. We do not distribute > >> binary > >> > > >>>>> >> releases."* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes it is and corrected > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *RE50 - Your release process neglects deleting old > >>artifacts.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Sorry I forgot it and corrected it by the Apache Jira > >>ticket > >> > > >>>>> MNEMONIC-357 > >> > > >>>>> >> (resolved) as well as MNEMONIC-358 (resolved) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *QU10 - Code quality is more than bug reports. You may > >>want > >> to > >> > > use > >> > > >>>>> >> linters, sonar, etc.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Yes, we will investigate this plugin and apply them to > >>project > >> > > >>>>> later, as > >> > > >>>>> >> for now, the QU10 has been replaced with "YES. The project > >> > records > >> > > >>>>> all bugs > >> > > >>>>> >> in the Apache¹s JIRA issue tracker. Developer also uses > >> Eclipse > >> > or > >> > > >>>>> Intellij > >> > > >>>>> >> IDEA to improve their code quality." > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *QU20 - This is only achievable if you've had a security > >> > > >>>>> vulnerability > >> > > >>>>> >> reported. If you haven't had one reported, there's no way > >>to > >> > > >>>>> confirm > >> > > >>>>> >> this.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> The QU20 has been replaced with "YES. Security issues > >>would be > >> > > >>>>> treated with > >> > > >>>>> >> the highest priority, computing service and memory service > >>are > >> > > >>>>> separated > >> > > >>>>> >> from other modules and defined by interfaces, so security > >> > concerns > >> > > >>>>> could be > >> > > >>>>> >> largely mitigated by introduced this design at first > >>place.", > >> > that > >> > > >>>>> this > >> > > >>>>> >> emphasize we consider the security aspect from design > >> viewpoint > >> > as > >> > > >>>>> well. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *QU50 - I see that MNEMONIC-203/217 have been open for > >>around > >> 6 > >> > > >>>>> months.* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> We have asked owners to properly handle those tickets > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *CO10 - Github shows two pull requests open without any > >> > commentary > >> > > >>>>> or > >> > > >>>>> >> questions from the project's committers. Why is that?* > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> They are stalled PRs, we have asked the owner to properly > >> revoke > >> > > >>>>> them. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> *The full checklist as follows for you to add comments* > >> > > >>>>> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/ > >> > 10LKTjPMceV4s4MrSRIA9L8pg7jLFp > >> > > >>>>> >> -ec-TmW96mZbXM/edit?usp=sharing > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:25 PM, John D. Ament < > >> > > >>>>> johndam...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > Huge +1 to that. > >> > > >>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 5:18 PM Henry Saputra < > >> > > >>>>> henry.sapu...@gmail.com> > >> > > >>>>> >> > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > The "checklist" suppose to just provide guide for > >> readiness > >> > > our > >> > > >>>>> >> > > graduation. It was NOT mandatory checklist. > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > This should be used primarily for self check to make > >>sure > >> we > >> > > >>>>> are ready > >> > > >>>>> >> > for > >> > > >>>>> >> > > graduation. > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > - Henry > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:50 PM, John D. Ament < > >> > > >>>>> johndam...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> Hello, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> So first, I'll say its always great to see a podling > >>aim > >> to > >> > > >>>>> graduate. > >> > > >>>>> >> > Its > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> not up to me to measure whether the podling has been > >> > > >>>>> successful or > >> > > >>>>> >> not, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> but > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> instead the IPMC as a whole. I can give you some > >> feedback > >> > on > >> > > >>>>> the APMM > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> assessment, but I'll point out that I'm not a fan of > >>this > >> > > form > >> > > >>>>> and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> completing this form is not a requirement for > >>graduation. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> So please, when reviewing the below list, understand > >>that > >> > > >>>>> completing > >> > > >>>>> >> > this > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> is not a requirement for graduation. Even then, > >>podlings > >> > who > >> > > >>>>> think > >> > > >>>>> >> they > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> pass it may be missing things. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> CD20 - You have a link in your header called GITHUB > >>that > >> > > >>>>> brought me to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> your > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> source code. Other projects use hacking guides. > >>Unless > >> > > >>>>> you're on > >> > > >>>>> >> > gitbox, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> the git primary repo should be the ASF hosted repos. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> CD30 - The usage of docker is in of itself a > >>violation of > >> > > this > >> > > >>>>> item, > >> > > >>>>> >> > from > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> my point of view. In your case, you're pointing to > >> > > >>>>> "centos:latest" > >> > > >>>>> >> > which > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> today is C7.2, but in a few months will be C7.3. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> CD50 - I can't tell if the pull requests to your repo > >>are > >> > > from > >> > > >>>>> >> > committers > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> or from contributors. If I take > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mnemonic/pull/60 > >>as > >> an > >> > > >>>>> example, > >> > > >>>>> >> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> commit message says nothing about provenance of the > >> source > >> > > >>>>> code. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> LC50 - You mention in your response why this is > >>incorrect > >> > > (the > >> > > >>>>> use of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> *most*) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RE10 - You link to http://mnemonic.incubator. > >> > > apache.org/news/ > >> > > >>>>> but > >> > > >>>>> >> that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> doesn't include any download links. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/downloads/ does > >> > include > >> > > >>>>> download > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> links > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> to the proper release mirrors. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RE20 - You mention non-PMC members in the vote (PPMC). > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RE30 - Again, not using mirror. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RE40 - Correct answer would be "NO. We do not > >>distribute > >> > > binary > >> > > >>>>> >> > releases." > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RE50 - Your release process neglects deleting old > >> > artifacts. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> QU10 - Code quality is more than bug reports. You may > >> want > >> > > to > >> > > >>>>> use > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> linters, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> sonar, etc. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> QU20 - This is only achievable if you've had a > >>security > >> > > >>>>> vulnerability > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> reported. If you haven't had one reported, there's no > >> way > >> > to > >> > > >>>>> confirm > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> this. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> QU50 - I see that MNEMONIC-203/217 have been open for > >> > around > >> > > 6 > >> > > >>>>> months. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> CO10 - Github shows two pull requests open without any > >> > > >>>>> commentary or > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> questions from the project's committers. Why is that? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> Regards, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 3:00 PM Gang(Gary) Wang < > >> > > >>>>> ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > Hi John, Our Mentors and PPMCs > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > We have prepared Apache Maturity checklist for your > >> > > >>>>> evaluation, > >> > > >>>>> >> please > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > guide us to graduate our project, thanks. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > All comments and suggestions are welcome! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > Cheers! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Gang(Gary) Wang < > >> > > >>>>> ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> Hi John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> Fixed it, Thank you for reminding me > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 12:39 PM, John D. Ament < > >> > > >>>>> >> > johndam...@apache.org > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> Please take a look at > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/ > >> > > dist/dev/incubator/mnemonic/ > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:55 PM Gang(Gary) Wang < > >> > > >>>>> ga...@apache.org > >> > > >>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> Hi John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> This issue has been fixed please refresh your > >> browser > >> > > and > >> > > >>>>> then > >> > > >>>>> >> > review > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> it, Thanks! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Gang(Gary) > >>Wang < > >> > > >>>>> >> > ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> Hi John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> I didn't realize that and thank you very much > >>for > >> > > >>>>> pointing it > >> > > >>>>> >> out, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> we > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> will correct this according to your guidance. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> Thanks! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 4:54 AM, John D. Ament < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> johndam...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> Thanks, but you're still out of compliance. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> - You're linking directly to your un-mirrored > >> > > >>>>> artifacts, but > >> > > >>>>> >> you > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> should be linking to your mirrored artifacts. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> - You have not cleaned up your old releases, > >>your > >> > old > >> > > >>>>> releases > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> should > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> be archived. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> Now here's the catch - we require mirroring > >>but I > >> > > can't > >> > > >>>>> find > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> anything > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> saying what the mirroring URL is. The format > >>is > >> > going > >> > > >>>>> to be > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> http://apache.org/dyn/closer. > >> cgi/incubator/mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> and you'll > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> want > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> to grab your specific version from there. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:31 PM Gang(Gary) > >>Wang < > >> > > >>>>> >> > ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> Hi John, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> The Download menu item has been added to the > >> > > navigator > >> > > >>>>> in home > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> page, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> Please refresh your browser to review it, > >>Thank > >> you > >> > > >>>>> very much > >> > > >>>>> >> > for > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> suggestion. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 6:04 PM, Gang(Gary) > >>Wang > >> < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> Hi John, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> You can download all versions of the package > >> from > >> > > >>>>> Apache > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> distribution site that is linked from the > >> > following > >> > > >>>>> web page > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/ > >> > > incubator-mnemonic/releases > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> Also, we can download them from Apache > >>Mirrored > >> > > >>>>> Github page > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/ > >> > > incubator-mnemonic/releases > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> We could add another menu item on top of home > >> page > >> > > >>>>> dedicated > >> > > >>>>> >> > for > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> downloading the latest one. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> Thanks! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 5:40 PM, John D. > >>Ament < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> johndam...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> I'm looking at your website. How do I > >>download > >> > > >>>>> Mnemonic? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 4:37 PM Gary Wong < > >> > > >>>>> >> qich...@gmail.com> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Hi Uma > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Yes, We are going to send out this > >>checklist > >> for > >> > > >>>>> PPMC > >> > > >>>>> >> review, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the guidance. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 1:23 PM, > >>Gangumalla, > >> > Uma < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> uma.ganguma...@intel.com> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> IMO, Mnemonic project doing good and ready > >> for > >> > > >>>>> graduation. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> What is the mentors call on this? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> I remember many other projects do Maturity > >> > model > >> > > >>>>> checklist > >> > > >>>>> >> > to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> check where > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> we are? Gary/John do you mind ready that > >> sheet, > >> > > so > >> > > >>>>> that > >> > > >>>>> >> will > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> help to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> assess better? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Uma > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> On 8/16/17, 12:46 PM, "Johnu George" < > >> > > >>>>> jo...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >It seems that we are ready to be a top > >>level > >> > > >>>>> project . > >> > > >>>>> >> We > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> have > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> a stable > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >release and we work well as a apache > >> community > >> > > >>>>> under the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> guidance of our > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >mentors. Any thoughts? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 12:00 PM, > >>Gang(Gary) > >> > > Wang < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> ga...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Dear John and Patrick, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Thank you for the guidance, we have > >> > completed > >> > > >>>>> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> construction of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>Mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Website recently according to your > >> feedback, > >> > > >>>>> this > >> > > >>>>> >> Apache > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> server hosted > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> website will be kept up to date and > >> > maintained > >> > > >>>>> by > >> > > >>>>> >> > dedicated > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> community > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> members. we also have redirected the > >> > visitors > >> > > >>>>> from > >> > > >>>>> >> > Github > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> our Apache > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> server hosted website by providing a > >> forward > >> > > >>>>> link in > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> project > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> README.md > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> file. Please review it as follows. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> http://mnemonic.incubator.apache.org/ > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Note: the browser cache may cause > >> unexpected > >> > > >>>>> view of > >> > > >>>>> >> this > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> website, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>please > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> clear browser cache or visit it in > >> incognito > >> > > >>>>> mode. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Very truly yours. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:04 PM, John > >>D. > >> > > Ament < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> johndam...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > Hi patrick, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > I recently raised an issue with the > >> > website > >> > > >>>>> to the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> team. I > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> personally > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > would like to see that fixed before a > >> > > >>>>> graduation. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Specifically saying > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > you need to learn it from github. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:15 PM > >>Patrick > >> > > Hunt < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> ph...@apache.org> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Given the recent work to bring on > >> > > >>>>> additional RMs > >> > > >>>>> >> (and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> increase > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> community > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > involvement in general) and clearly > >> > > document > >> > > >>>>> >> release > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> procedures I > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>feel > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > my previous concerns have been > >>largely > >> > > >>>>> addressed. > >> > > >>>>> >> If > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> there is > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>interest > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> in > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > the community I would now be in > >>favor, > >> > but > >> > > >>>>> up to > >> > > >>>>> >> you > >> > > >>>>> >> > - > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> do > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> you feel > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> you're > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > ready to graduate at this point? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Regards, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > Patrick > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 3:30 PM, > >> > Debojyoti > >> > > >>>>> Dutta < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> ddu...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> On the diversity issue, we are > >>trying > >> > to > >> > > >>>>> solve > >> > > >>>>> >> that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> with > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> new > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> committers > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> from different organizations. We > >>have > >> > had > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> contributions > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> from other > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> companies like Cisco recently. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> This space is about to heat up > >>soon > >> and > >> > > we > >> > > >>>>> will > >> > > >>>>> >> see > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> more > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>committers. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> cheers > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> debo > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 8:18 AM, > >> Patrick > >> > > >>>>> Hunt < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> ph...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > I've mentored a number of > >>podlings > >> > over > >> > > >>>>> the > >> > > >>>>> >> years > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> this one if > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> very > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> well > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > run and is on a good > >>trajectory. As > >> > > >>>>> noted my > >> > > >>>>> >> main > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> concern is > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>about > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > diversity - in particular > >> > > >>>>> "self-sustaining and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> self-governing > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> communities". > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/gu > >> > > >>>>> ides/graduation.html# > >> > > >>>>> >> > community > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > That's pretty clear and concise > >> > > >>>>> statements from > >> > > >>>>> >> > the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>community > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > as > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> a > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > whole as to what it takes. The > >> > podling > >> > > is > >> > > >>>>> >> > following > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> "the apache > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>way" > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> quite > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > well, so it's really the > >>sustaining > >> > > part > >> > > >>>>> for me. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Ensuring that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> community is > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > being built and the community > >>as a > >> > > whole > >> > > >>>>> is > >> > > >>>>> >> owning > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> process. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > Hope this helps, regards, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > Patrick > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 2:24 PM, > >> > Andrew > >> > > >>>>> Purtell > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >><apurt...@apache.org > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > For me the best test if a > >>podling > >> > is > >> > > >>>>> ready for > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> graduation is > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>they > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> do > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> it > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > (mostly) for themselves. So, > >> > > Mnemonic, > >> > > >>>>> I'd > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> encourage > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> you to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>search > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > through > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > the incubator mailing list > >> archives > >> > > for > >> > > >>>>> >> examples > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> other > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>podlings > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > running > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > a graduation vote and > >>submitting > >> > the > >> > > >>>>> result to > >> > > >>>>> >> > the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> IPMC. Then, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>do > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > it. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > I'm glad to see the recent > >>move > >> to > >> > > >>>>> bring in > >> > > >>>>> >> more > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> RMs > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> in > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>response > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > earlier feedback, now that > >> everyone > >> > > is > >> > > >>>>> aware > >> > > >>>>> >> of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> it. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> didn't > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> think > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > that the incubator report > >>might > >> not > >> > > be > >> > > >>>>> read > >> > > >>>>> >> > back. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 5:42 > >>PM, > >> > John > >> > > >>>>> D. Ament > >> > > >>>>> >> < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > johndam...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> Patrick, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> I read it. I'm curious, did > >>you > >> > or > >> > > >>>>> Andrew > >> > > >>>>> >> > share > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> your feedback > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> with > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> Mnemonic directly? I've > >>noticed > >> > > that > >> > > >>>>> >> podlings > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes don't > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> see > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> input, and don't receive > >> responses > >> > > >>>>> the way > >> > > >>>>> >> TLPs > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> do. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> For the podling's > >>information, > >> we > >> > do > >> > > >>>>> also > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> maintain > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> a whimsy > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>page > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> all > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> approved board reports per > >> > project, > >> > > >>>>> Mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> >> > can > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> see that > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > information > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> here: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> https://whimsy.apache.org/ > >> > > >>>>> >> > board/minutes/Mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> When I see a podling > >>receiving 5 > >> > > +1's > >> > > >>>>> on a > >> > > >>>>> >> dev > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> list > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> release > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>vote, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > that's a > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> great sign. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> There probably is room for > >>more > >> on > >> > > >>>>> list > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> discussion, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> and yes > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > committer > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> diversity isn't 100% there (I > >> > would > >> > > be > >> > > >>>>> >> curious > >> > > >>>>> >> > to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> see company > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> affiliations). > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> I'll also point out that I > >> > sometimes > >> > > >>>>> ask > >> > > >>>>> >> these > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> questions to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > podlings > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> get > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> them to start thinking about > >> > > >>>>> graduation, not > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> actually moving > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > forward > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> yet > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> due to $reasons. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 2:58 > >>PM > >> > > >>>>> Patrick Hunt < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> ph...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > Hi John, did you read my > >> > feedback > >> > > >>>>> on the > >> > > >>>>> >> most > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> recent podling > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> report? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > Do > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > you disagree? I don't > >>believe > >> > this > >> > > >>>>> has > >> > > >>>>> >> > changed > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>significantly in > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > past > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > month/two. For example all > >> > > releases > >> > > >>>>> have > >> > > >>>>> >> been > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> done by a > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>single > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> person. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > https://wiki.apache.org/ > >> > > >>>>> >> incubator/March2017 > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > As I've mentioned > >>previously > >> my > >> > > only > >> > > >>>>> >> concerns > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> at > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> this point > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>are > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> around > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > diversity. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > Patrick > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > On Wed, May 3, 2017 at > >>11:07 > >> AM, > >> > > >>>>> Gang(Gary) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> Wang < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > ga...@apache.org > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> Hi John and PPMCs > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> As John advised, our > >> community > >> > > and > >> > > >>>>> project > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> mnemonic might > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>be > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> ready to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> get > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> graduated, I'd like to > >>start > >> > the > >> > > >>>>> following > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> votes > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> according > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > the > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> processes > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> of > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ > >> > > guides/graduation.html > >> > > >>>>> with > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> your > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> mentoring > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> and guidance if no > >>objection > >> > > today > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> - Community graduation > >> vote > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> - IPMC recommendation > >>vote > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> Mnemonic Project > >>Incubation > >> > > Status > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/ > >> > > projects/mnemonic.html > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> +Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> On Tue, May 2, 2017 at > >>11:26 > >> > PM, > >> > > >>>>> >> Gang(Gary) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> Wang > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> ga...@apache.org> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Hi John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Thank you for starting > >>this > >> > > >>>>> discussion. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Yes, our community is > >> growing > >> > > and > >> > > >>>>> >> continue > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> attract > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>more > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> people > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> join > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > our community. Some > >> industry > >> > > >>>>> users are > >> > > >>>>> >> > aware > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> of mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > already > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> get > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > interested as i known. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Mnemonic is able to > >>deliver > >> > > >>>>> unique > >> > > >>>>> >> values > >> > > >>>>> >> > to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> their > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>business > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > so I > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> think > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > that it is very > >>important > >> for > >> > > us > >> > > >>>>> to get > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> mnemonic > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>graduated > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> in > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> time > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > if > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > qualified. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > My 2 cents, looks > >>nothing > >> > left > >> > > >>>>> for us to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> graduate > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>Mnemonic, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > I'm > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > also > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > looking forward to > >>propose > >> > our > >> > > >>>>> project > >> > > >>>>> >> as > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache TLP. > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Thanks! > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Very truly yours > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > Gary > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > On Tuesday, May 2, 2017, > >> John > >> > > D. > >> > > >>>>> Ament < > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> johndam...@apache.org > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> wrote: > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > Hi Mnemonic PPMC, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > After looking at your > >> > recent > >> > > >>>>> release, > >> > > >>>>> >> > your > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> current > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>growth > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > and > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > well > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > functioning PPMC, was > >> > wondering > >> > > >>>>> what was > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> left > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> for you > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >>guys > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> to > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> graduate? > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > John > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > -- > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > Best regards, > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > - Andy > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > If you are given a choice, you > >> > > believe > >> > > >>>>> you > >> > > >>>>> >> have > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> acted freely. - > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> Raymond > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > Teller (via Peter Watts) > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >>>> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > > >> > > >>>>> >> > > >> > > >>>>> >> > >> > > >>>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>>> > >> > > >>> > >> > > >> > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >
