On 07.08.2011 20:54 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 07 Aug 2011, at 20:02, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
...
My question was more about what kind of consciousness experiences a
spider has. Let us start with a vision. Does a spider experience a
3D world like we? (well even without colors, say greyscale but
still a 3D world) Then does a spider has emotions, pain, etc.?
Jumping spiders have a larger spectrum of color than us, according to
some scientists. Thay have a pretty good binocular vision system,
but with a narrower view angle. But, well like most spiders, they
have 8 eight eyes. the six supplementary eyaes seems good at
detecting moves all around them, so I figure out they might have a
pretty good sense of 3D. They certainly have emotions, which is the
most basic mental experience in most living form, and pain, and
thirst and appetite, and sexual desire, satisfaction and fears. No
doubt that they have a rather different perception than human, and
different qualia, but basically, I would say that it is like us,
minus some troubles (like how will I pay the taxes), but with the
corresponding one, like its has been for some time I didn't see any
edible pray (not with words, of course).
Yes. I would bet they are pretty self-conscious like us. They don't
have language, and they probably have no way to learn from the
discovery made by others. They progress in technics is still
Darwinian, but in their individual life, they learn (unlike
insects).
I think and speculate, from what I read and see (not as an expert in
arthropods, for sure). I will certainly dig on this and let you know
if that theory will weight up or down.
Who knows, I am not an expert in this area. It would be good to see what
experiments pro and contra are available. As for a visual system in a
human brain, it is pretty complex. Say signals from retina go in
parallel to two different visual subsystems, visual perception subsystem
and visual action subsystem. If I understood correctly these subsystems
take a considerable amount of a human brain. Hence I wonder how it goes
in the brain of a spider. Is a perception visual subsystem there at all?
8 eyes are not necessarily enough to form a consciousness 3D experience.
To this end, one seems to need a good brain.
Also a quote from
Dario Floreano and Claudio Mattiussi, Bio-Inspired Artificial
Intelligence: Theories, Methods, and Technologies, 2008, Chapter 6
Behavioral Systems, section 6.5 Robots as Biological Models.
"Robots can also be used as models to investigate biological questions
and test hypothesis. As we mentioned in the historical introduction to
this chapter, robots have been gradually replacing computers as the
preferred tool and metaphor in embodied cognitive science. Robots are
becoming increasingly accepted also among experimental biologists and
neurosciences as tools to validate their models."
Evgenii
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