On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 Bruno Marchal<marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
What is the probability the Helsinki man will receive signals from
Moscow turning him into the Moscow man? 100%.
There is nothing ambiguous about it! Granted this thought
experiment is odd
but everything is crystal clear. According to the thought
have been teleported to Moscow which means you will now be
and sounds and smells and tastes and feeling textures from Moscow
of Helsinki. I say the probability of that happening is 100%, how
tell if my prediction is correct? If after the experiment I can find
something that says he is Bruno Marchal and that he feels like he
is in one
and only one place and that one place is Moscow then my prediction
confirmed as being correct. After the experiment I CAN find such a
my prediction was correct. The fact that there is also a Bruno
Washington is irrelevant, it does not reduce the feeling that Bruno
has that he is in one and only one place and that one place is
even a infinitesimal amount.
If you say 100%, it means that you are talking on the first person
you can attribute to different people.
Of course the first person can be attributed to different people
according to the thought experiment *YOU* have been duplicated, let
repeat that, YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED. Although perfectly logical
certainly a unusual situation, I've never been duplicated before
probably haven't either, so it shouldn't be surprising that the
such a unusual situation are odd, not illogical not self
we get a paradox if you say that it is 100% for both Moscow and
There is not the slightest thing paradoxical about it, in fact if I
said anything else then that WOULD have been paradoxical. Why?
HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED, that means your first person perspective has
duplicated and will remain identical until differing environmental
cause the two of YOU to diverge; and even then they would both be
Marchal they just wouldn't be each other.
What is the probability the Helsinki man will receive signals from
neither Washington nor Moscow and thus leaving him as the
In the protocol considered the Helsinki guy is annihilated.
Fine, if that's the thought experiment then the probability the
man will receive signals from either Washington or Moscow is 100%
probability he will remain the Helsinki man is 0%. Annihilate or
either way the results are deterministic.
What is the probability the Helsinki man will feel like the
0% because if he felt like the Moscow man he wouldn't be the
In that case, the probability to survive, in the usual clinical
teleportation experience is 0
But "the usual clinical sense" is totally useless in this case
case is about as far from "usual" as you can get and still remain
Why do I say that? Because YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED.
What is the probability the Moscow man will feel like the
man? 0% because if he felt like the Washington man he wouldn't be
Moscow man anymore.
I guess the last "Moscow" should be replaced by "Helsinki".
You can if you want to, either way its still true.
What is the probability that a third party in all this will see a
person in Helsinki and Washington and Moscow with all 3 having a
equal right to call themselves John K Clark? 100%.
The guy in Helsinki is annihilated
Then 2 have a exactly equal right to call themselves John K Clark,
although "annihilated" the guy in Helsinki didn't die because dying
having a last thought and he didn't have one, he continued to feel
sensations only now they originated in Moscow and Washington not
Helsinki where the third party will see only ashes after the
I don't care if a third party thinks I'm dead as long as I think
You have avoided the question, asked in Helsinki to you: "where
expect to be from a personal, first person point of view, after the
duplication is done?".
I have not avoided the question at all, the answer is that the one
one place you will feel to be after the experiment is Moscow and
and there is nothing paradoxical about that. I think your
that when you blithely say you have been duplicated you don't really
understand that it means YOU HAVE BEEN DUPLICATED.
You cannot answer in W and in M, because you will not write, after
experience, in your diary "I feel to be W and I feel to be in M"
In Washington you will write in your diary "I feel like I am in
and only in Washington" and in Moscow you will write in your diary
like I am in Moscow and only in Moscow" because YOU HAVE BEEN
The question is just hard, if not impossible, for the bat, which
different from us. Yet it makes some sense to ask some question on
due to the bat peculiar use of sound.
That's irrelevant, we are of the same species but I can't even know
it's like to be you; I might know what it would be like for John
be Bruno Marchal but not what its like for Bruno Marchal to be Bruno
Marchal, only you can know that.
something akin to that first person indeterminacy is used
The two are not even close. Quantum Mechanical indeterminacy is
can be measured experimentally, "first person indeterminacy" not
be measured nobody can even clearly express exactly what it is that
supposed to be indeterminate.
Consider a giant screen composed of 16180 x 10000 black and white
There are 2^(16180 x 10000) possible images that can be done on that
screen. OK? Now, here is the self-multiplying protocol. I multiply
2^(16180 x 10000) exemplar, in front of each of the possible
...... and I iterate that experience, meaning that I re-multiply
resulting persons again by 2^(16180 x 10000), putting them again
of each possible screen, and this 24 times per second, during 1h30
90 minutes). You can see that the number of people getting out of
will be 2^[(16180 x 10000) x (60 x 90) x 24], given that the
multiplied 24 times per second, and that there is (60 x 90)
1h30. OK? Again the question is asked to the guy (you) before the
experiment begin. What question? This one: what experience do you
As the number of John K Clark's is now equal to the number of ways
of that size changing 24 times a second can produce in 90 minutes I
expect that John K Clark would see every 90 minute 16180 x 10000
white videos that is possible to exist. To prove me wrong just
video that John K Clark has not seen, but there is no such video.
If you want, I can still make everything 3p in that question, in the
following manner. I make a genuine sample of 1000 persons among the
2^[(16180 x 10000) x (60 x 90) x 24] resulting persons, by
with a random coin, or whatever choice reasonable enough for not
the statistics. I ask them the same question, including "did you
see the movie you did see?".
Yes. I John K Clark just saw a 90 minutes documentary on the
asphalt, and as that is certainly one of the large but finite
number of 90
minute movies I can see on that screen it is entirely consistent
prediction that John K Clark will see every 90 minute movie that
John K Clark