On 4/2/2012 7:12 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:


On Apr 2, 5:05 pm, meekerdb<meeke...@verizon.net>  wrote:


But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will.  It didn't 
even show
there was any free will.  It just showed that inducing a belief in free will 
changed
performance.
Performance in what though? Readiness to execute personal will.

It might have also shown that belief in alien abductions changed
performance.
No, they did controls to eliminate that. There may be other beliefs
that change people's ability to take action as well, but this study
suggests that this specific idea that we should doubt the existence of
our own free will has a negative impact on the very thing that is
being considered.

  Either one is perfectly consistent with determinism.
No, determinism would not allow a mention of a deterministic function
of the brain to affect the performance of that function, because then
it wouldn't be deterministic - it would be open to suggestion by
others and by ourselves.

There is nothing in determinism that prevents a change in response to 
suggestions.

If I can suggest beliefs to myself that
causally affect the performance of anything at all, then I am using
free will to determine their function rather than only being
determined by them.

That's just assuming what you want to prove. I'd say you were determined to suggest that belief to yourself. All kinds of systems have feedback loops and they are still deterministic.

Brent

The whole idea of convincing yourself of something
or building confidence doesn't make sense if we were only passive
spectators in our own minds.

Craig


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