On Apr 3, 5:20 pm, Craig Weinberg <whatsons...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 3, 5:27 am, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will.  It 
> > > > didn't even show
> > > > there was any free will.  It just showed that inducing a belief in free 
> > > > will changed
> > > > performance.
>
> > > Performance in what though? Readiness to execute personal will.
>
> > Nothing in the experiment indicates the will was free in a
> > philosophical
> > sense, just the usual scientific sense of volition, ie conscious
> > control
> > or control by higher brain centres.
>
> Right. I don't even look at the philosophy of how free is free - any
> experience of will is unexplainable in a deterministic universe.

So you keep saying, but "deterministic" doens't mean "qualia-less".

>
>
>
>
>
> > > >It might have also shown that belief in alien abductions changed
> > > > performance.
>
> > > No, they did controls to eliminate that. There may be other beliefs
> > > that change people's ability to take action as well, but this study
> > > suggests that this specific idea that we should doubt the existence of
> > > our own free will has a negative impact on the very thing that is
> > > being considered.
>
> > > > Either one is perfectly consistent with determinism.
>
> > > No, determinism would not allow a mention of a deterministic function
> > > of the brain to affect the performance of that function, because then
> > > it wouldn't be deterministic - it would be open to suggestion by
> > > others and by ourselves.
>
> > One deterministic process can affect another. Think of dropping a
> > clock
> > of a tall building.
>
> That's a straw man of the findings. What the experiment shows would be
> like dropping a clock off of a tall building and seeing that it falls
> faster than 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it that it's doomed to fall,
> slower than 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it that it can control the speed
> of its fall, and exactly 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it unrelated things.

I wasn;t talking about the psychology experiment at all. I meant
that the falling and the ticking are both deterministic processes,
and the one is bound to impact the other: "One deterministic process
can affect another."

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