On Apr 3, 5:27 am, 1Z <peterdjo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> > > But the experiment didn't show there was more or less free will.  It 
> > > didn't even show
> > > there was any free will.  It just showed that inducing a belief in free 
> > > will changed
> > > performance.
>
> > Performance in what though? Readiness to execute personal will.
>
> Nothing in the experiment indicates the will was free in a
> philosophical
> sense, just the usual scientific sense of volition, ie conscious
> control
> or control by higher brain centres.

Right. I don't even look at the philosophy of how free is free - any
experience of will is unexplainable in a deterministic universe.

>
> > >It might have also shown that belief in alien abductions changed
> > > performance.
>
> > No, they did controls to eliminate that. There may be other beliefs
> > that change people's ability to take action as well, but this study
> > suggests that this specific idea that we should doubt the existence of
> > our own free will has a negative impact on the very thing that is
> > being considered.
>
> > > Either one is perfectly consistent with determinism.
>
> > No, determinism would not allow a mention of a deterministic function
> > of the brain to affect the performance of that function, because then
> > it wouldn't be deterministic - it would be open to suggestion by
> > others and by ourselves.
>
> One deterministic process can affect another. Think of dropping a
> clock
> of a tall building.

That's a straw man of the findings. What the experiment shows would be
like dropping a clock off of a tall building and seeing that it falls
faster than 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it that it's doomed to fall,
slower than 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it that it can control the speed
of its fall, and exactly 32ft/sec/sec if you tell it unrelated things.

Craig

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