On 09.06.2012 14:06 Quentin Anciaux said the following:
2012/6/9 Evgenii Rudnyi<use...@rudnyi.ru>
On 09.06.2012 12:36 Bruno Marchal said the following:
On 09 Jun 2012, at 08:39, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:
On 08.06.2012 21:00 Pzomby said the following:
Using mathematics, computations and symbols; human embodied
consciousness can (using computers) create models,
simulations, emulations, depictions, replications,
representations etc. of observations of the physical universe
and its processes.
This assumes that the actual observable physical universe is
exemplified by, and is, instantiations of, mathematics and
Why not assume that model is different from what is modeled?
That is usually the case. But this does not mean that it is
always the case. In particular digital "processes", or relations,
can be emulated exactly, so if you assume the brain is a natural
computer, there are possible "exact model", like a digital brain
and its corresponding relative state in arithmetic. From the
1p-view, those cannot be distinguished in any immediate way.
If I simulate a typhoon on a computer in front of you, you will
never become wet by it. But if I read and cut you, and simulate
with that computer "you + the typhoon" at the right comp level
(assuming it exists) then you will, in that case, feel to be wet
due to the simulated typhoon. Likewise, the arithmetical typhoons
can make wet the relative arithmetical entities (with comp).
But then even in this case, I distinguish between a typhoon on a
computer in front of me and a real typhoon. I mean that let us
assume comp for a moment. Let me agree with you for a moment that
arithmetics -> mind -> physics
Said that, I still see a computer in front of me (or a computer
cluster at work, well I do not see it there but rather access but I
guess this does not matter). In other words, even after having
accepted your theorem, I do not observe that the typhoon in the
computer in front of me makes me wet.
Yes so what ? you're not at the same level so you can't expect
Bruno said "Likewise, the arithmetical typhoons can make wet the
relative arithmetical entities (with comp)."
Nothing special, I agree. Yet, let us imagine that we are at the same
level. Let me assume that I am in simulation. Yet, even being in
simulation, my simulated computer in front of simulated myself will not
make simulated myself wet.
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