On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at  Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> > We can perhaps agree that consciousness-here-and-now is the only truth
> we know which seems undoubtable, so it might be more easy to explain the
> illusion of matter to consciousness than the illusion of consciousness to a
> piece of matter.

If consciousness is more fundamental than matter then it's difficult to
explain why it's easy to find examples of matter without consciousness but
nobody has yet found a single example of consciousness without matter. Yeah
yeah I know, it's all just a illusion, but why only that illusion? Why is
the "illusion" always that matter effects consciousness and consciousness
effects matter if one is more fundamental than the other?

>> I don't see why it *MUST* be due to a deeper physical phenomenon; nearly
>> every physicists alive says some things have no cause
> > You might provide references.
Why? I think it would have been pompous and downright condescending to do
so, you will certainly have no trouble finding such references without my
help. But if I had said "many physicist think it is a logical necessity
that every event must have a cause" then THAT would indeed need

> > Event without reason might exist but cannot be invoked to explain
> anything.

To say that X happened not for any physical reason and not because of God
but for no reason whatsoever is a explanation and it might even be true,
but the trouble is it might not be and if you assume its true and give up
there is no hope of ever finding the true reason if there is one. So there
is the possibility we could spend eternity looking for something that does
not exist.

> To invoke them as such is just equivalent with "I dunno and will never
> know".

These answers to a question are all different:

1) I dunno.  (What is the capital of Wyoming?)
2) I dunno and may never know.  (Is the Goldbach Conjecture true?)
3) I dunno and will never know.  (What are the first hundred digits of
Chaitin's Omega Constant?)
4) Although meaningful the question has no answer.  (Why is there something
rather than nothing?)

And either a chain of "why" question is infinitely long or it is not and
you eventually come to a "why" question that cannot be answered because
there is no reason behind it.

 John K Clark

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