Hi Stephen P. King  

Platonia doesn't exist, it lives. 

Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen 

----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-20, 21:28:02 
Subject: Re: Numbers in Space 

On 9/20/2012 12:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 

On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48:15 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:  

On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg  wrote: 

Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp. 

If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of physics, then 
shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal machines using only empty 
space? Length can be quantified, so why can't we just use millimeters or Planck 
lengths as the basis for our enumeration, addition, and multiplication and 
directly program from our mind to space?  

Of course, it would be hard to know where it was because we would be constantly 
flying away from a space that was anchored to an absolute position independent 
of Earth, the solar system, Milky Way, etc, but that shouldn't matter anyhow 
since whatever method we use to directly program in empty space with our minds 
should also give us access to the results of the computations. 

Right this is already the case.  That we can use our minds to access the 

Why do you say this is the case? We aren't storing memories in space. When we 
lose our memory capacity it isn't because the universe is running out of space. 
We access experience through what we are, not through nothingness. 

What do you think? Just as wafers of silicon glass could in theory be 
functionally identical to a living brain, wouldn't it be equally prejudiced to 
say that empty space isn't good enough to host the computations of silicon? 

We don't even need empty space, we can use thought alone to figure out the 
future evolution of computers that already exist in Platonia and then get the 
result of any computation.  The problem is we are slow at doing this,  

Why is being 'slow' a problem? What's the rush? What time is it in Platonia? 
Why aren't we in Platonia now? 

Hi Craig, 

    We are! We just don't "feel" it... 

so we build machines that can tell us what these platonic machines do with 
greater speed and accuracy than we ever could. 

Why would speed and accuracy matter, objectively? What is speed? 

    What is the speed of light? Same question! 

It's not doing the computations that is hard, the computations are already 
there.  The problem is learning their results. 

The problem is doing anything in the first place. Computations don't do 
anything at all. The reason that we do things is that we are not computations. 
We use computations. We can program things, but we can't thing programs without 
something to thing them with. This is a fatal flaw. If Platonia exists, it 
makes no sense for anything other than Platonia to exist. It would be redundant 
to go through the formality of executing any function is already executed 
non-locally. Why 'do' anything? 

    Bruno can 't answer that question. He is afraid that it will corrupt 




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