On 20 Oct 2012, at 19:18, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Friday, October 19, 2012 3:29:39 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 17 Oct 2012, at 17:04, Craig Weinberg wrote:



On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:16:52 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:

On 16 Oct 2012, at 18:56, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Two men and two women live together. The woman has a child. 2+2=5

You mean two men + two women + a baby = five persons.

You need the arithmetical 2+2=4, and 4+1 = 5, in your "argument".

Bruno


I only see that one person plus another person can eventually equal three or more people.

With the operation of sexual reproduction, not by the operation of addition.

Only if you consider the 2+2=5 to be a complex special case and 2+2=4 to be a simple general rule.

2+2 = 5 is not a special case of 2+2=4.


It could just as easily be flipped.

Errors are possible pour complex subjects.



I can say 2+2=4 by the operation of reflexive neurology, and 2+2=5 is an operation of multiplication. It depends on what level of description you privilege by over-signifying and the consequence that has on the other levels which are under-signified. To me, the Bruno view is near-sighted when it comes to physics (only sees numbers, substance is disqualified)

It means that you think that there is a flaw in UDA, as the non materiality of physics is a consequence of the comp hypothesis. There is no choice in the matter (pun included).



and far-sighted when it comes to numbers (does not question the autonomy of numbers).

Because computer science explains in details how number can be autonomous, or less simplified: how arithmetical realization can generate the beliefs in bodies, relative autonomy, etc. You seem to want to ignore the computer science behind the comp hypothesis.



What is it that can tell one number from another?

It is not simple to prove, but the laws of addition and multiplication is enough. I am not sanguine on numbers, I can take fortran programs in place, with the same explanation for the origin of the consciousness/realities couplings.




What knows that + is different from * and how?


Because we know the definition, and practice first order logical language. Everything I say is a theorem in the theory:

x + 0 = x
x + s(y) = s(x + y)

 x *0 = 0
 x*s(y) = x*y + x






Why doesn't arithmetic truth need a meta-arithmetic machine to allow it to function (to generate the ontology of 'function' in the first place)?

It does not. That's the amazing whole theoretical computer science point. The meta-arithmetic is already a consequence of the four laws above.

Bruno


It's all sense. It has to be sense.





It depends when you start counting and how long it takes you to finish.

It depends on what we are talking about. Person with sex is not numbers with addition.

You are just changing definition, not invalidating a proof (the proof that 2+2=4, in arithmetic).

I'm not trying to invalidate the proof within one context of sense, I'm pointing out that it isn't that simple. There are other contexts of sense which reduce differently.

Craig



Bruno




Craig




http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/




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