On 11/4/2012 12:37 AM, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/3/2012 11:06 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 11/3/2012 10:35 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 11/3/2012 8:11 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 11/3/2012 8:21 PM, meekerdb wrote:
Horsefeathers <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/horsefeathers>! How is the truth of an arithmetic statement separable from any claim of that truth? What is the possible value of a statement that we can make no claims about?

You are causing confusion by asking how the truth of a statement is separable from any claim of that truth. But claims and statements are the same thing - so of course they are not seperable. Bruno is saying that the claim/statement is NOT the same as the fact that makes it true. "1+1=2" is a claim; it's the claim that 1+1=2. And that's a true claim; it's true that 1+1=2 whether you claim it or not.

It is not about me or any other single individual, it is about the mutual agreement on the claim by many individuals, any one of which is irrelevant to the truth of a claim.

Realism (arithmetical or other) is the position that the claim by EVERY one of which is irrelevant; the truth of the claim depends only whether it corresponds to a fact.


It your claim is true then truth is unknowable,

I don't see how that follows. When everyone claimed the Earth was flat did that make it unknowable that it was round? If so how did anyone ever come know it?

as facts become meaningless. Fact require independent verification to exist.

That's directly contrary to the meaning of 'fact'. I think you want the word 'opinion'.


Dear Brent,

Try reasoning about this in a way that is not limited to the assumption that observations are not just what humans do or think about. Reality is not just people populated.



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