On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:

> Yes, the question is about a prediction.

And my question is why is the question about prediction rather than
remembering which would make far more sense.  Using prediction to establish
a chain of custody for your personal identity works about as well as
pushing on a string. you've got to use memory and look from the present to
the past, give it a try, try pulling that string.

>  >> And I know nothing for certain about the John Clark of tomorrow, I
>> don't even know if he will exist.
> > Keep in mind the theoretical protocol.

It is a theoretical and practical and empirical fact that I will never know
as much about the future John Clark as the past John Clark, it's why the
arrow of time has a direction.

> By asking them where they feel to be after opening the reconstitution
> box, after pushing the button in Helsinki.

And "them" will answer "I feel like I'm only in Washington" AND "I feel
like I'm only in Moscow".

> >> I've got to say that your comments like the above make me want to pull
>> my hair out. Yes you say, I understand that I the Helsinki man am now the
>> Moscow man AND the Washington man.
> > No, from the 1p, after pushing the button and opening the box, you
> *feel*[...]

Who feels? Bruno Marchal admitted that both the Washington and the Moscow
man are "you", so who is  "you" in the above? it can't be someone
experiencing Helsinki because nobody is anymore.

> > to be only the M man, or the W man. This is not in contraidction with
> the fact that they both feel to have been the Hlsinki man.

But pronouns  like "you"  and "I" can't be tossed around and expect to be

 >> Yes you say, I understand that I have been duplicated. Yes you say I
>> understand that now I was one but now I am TWO.
> > Intellectually. In the 3p view, but you, whoever you can be after
> pushing the button

You being the Washington man AND the Moscow man.

> will feel to be only one of the copy.

Yes the Washington man will and yes the Moscow man will, in other words yes
you will .

 >> You say you understand all that, and then you ask "but which ONE am
>> I?". AHRRRRR!
> > Because it is simple to understand that you[...]

STOP HIDING BEHIND PRONOUNS! Who the hell is "you"??

>> he will not longer be singular, but both copies will still feel
> singular, and the question was about that feeling.

If Bruno doesn't like the answer then Bruno should ask the question without
using pronouns and without peeing.

> > I repeat the precise question, asked to the H man, when he is still in
> Helsinki, before pushing the button.

After he pushes that button the probability that the guy who is still
experiencing Helsinki will see Washington or Moscow or Helsinki or anything
else is zero because there is no longer a guy who is experiencing

>>>  From the 1p view, he will never feel the presence of a split.
>> > I know.

> Good. you disagreed with this some times ago.


>> In other words the environment causes a change in him and the two exact
>> copies of the Helsinki man are not exact anymore and so become separate
>> people
> > You can put it that way,

I know.

> > but the indeterminacy comes from the duplication, follow by the
> differentiation. This is used in all the steps.

I know, and that's exactly why its pointless of me to read all the steps.

  John K Clark

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