Hi Craig Weinberg 

What drives to totalitarianism is the lust for power.


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net]
12/13/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen

----- Receiving the following content ----- 
From: Craig Weinberg 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-12-13, 07:46:58
Subject: Re: Moral evaluations of harm are instant and emotional,brain study 
shows




On Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:47:19 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
Dear Craig,
You have much to learn about evolution. there have been a lot of developments 
since Darwin. You adhere to a caricature that is outdated. 

Dear Alberto,

You make a lot of assumptions about me and what I should do. I try to avoid 
doing that. It's not polite and it is misinforms others.
 

Almost everything can drive to totalitarianism, The idea that nothing is innate 
drives to totalitarian social engineering. the idea that men are different 
because they are genetically (innately) different drives to Eugenesism. But I 
can not see how  the idea that men are genetically (innately) equal could could 
drive to eugenesism.

I don't know about genetically equal, but I would say that all humans are 
innately potentially equivalent. What might be initially a disadvantageous 
inherited trait may very well turn out to generate a compensating intentional 
trait (i.e. Napoleon), or might find them at an advantage in a different set of 
conditions which arise (i.e. the King of England likes the sound of your name 
and promotes you from hunchback latrine boy to Lord Hunchbacque.)

I'm not so much concerned about what the effects of the truth might be, or 
which truths should be avoided to be safe. If anything, that is the most common 
impetus for fascism - to herd other human beings like cattle in the direction 
that you deem wise for them. Who appointed you or me shepherd?




By the way, unless you are a variation of the primeval bacterias (are you a 
dolphin?) different from my specie, 


(FYI 'species' is the singular form of species. The word specie refers to 
currency. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specie )


you will agree that the fast moral evaluation mechanism that you posted at the 
beginning of this discussion comes as the result of something. 

Yes, it comes as the result of the nature of awareness and intention as more 
primitive than biology.
 
 If you reject natural selection as the process that conform the human 
psichology as an adaptation to the social and phisical medium, What do you 
think that produced this remarcable moral ability in humans (and only humans)  
apart from natural selection. 

I think that our range of contemporary human capacities are the result of 
countless feedback loops of personal interactions and events on many levels 
simultaneously and sequentially. These range in frequency from the sub-personal 
to the personal to the super-personal and include many genetic and 
environmental factors. As far as the moral ability in the article, I don't know 
that it is more pronounced in humans than in other species, just that it is 
more pronounced in humans than it should be if you believe that free will is an 
illusion.
 
The god of diversity? Gaia?  randomness?  State planned education?.  

Sense.


Sensibly,
Craig
 



2012/12/12 Craig Weinberg <whats...@gmail.com>



On Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:46:27 AM UTC-5, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
Well. I have not all the time i wish for this. You keep saying that "there are 
othes species where..." Yes. And there are atoms that are radiactive. What are 
two species to do one with each other?. 

All species are only variations on the same organism.
 

As a minimum, For the next half million years, men and femenine sea horses will 
be more agressive and risk taking than their opposite sex. This is guaranteed 
by the pace that evolution takes to change a large set of coordinated genes. 
The people like you that accept the innate , natural -selection driven nature 
of animal behaviour but reject it form men are victims of a heavy prejuice. 

I'm not a victim of anything, as far as I know. It's interesting how you always 
bring it back to a personal attack when your arguments fail to yield any 
insights. It sounds like you are making an argument for Social Darwinism, which 
is of course, fraudulent and a misunderstanding of evolutionary biology. 
Survival of the fittest means only survival of the best fit to ecological 
conditions, not that the meanest toughest bastard always wins. Just ask the 
dinosaurs.
 
I don? know if this is political or religious or both. I like to go to the 
bottom of the motivation of a discussion,. sorry if this is inconvenient. 

It's not inconvenient, it's exposing the left-brain driven defense mechanisms 
which come up in debates. Faced with a more reasonable argument, some lash out 
personally, looking for some motive based on blood or character defect so they 
don't have to face the possibility that they might be wrong. It doesn't bother 
me though, because I debate these issues because I am interested in the root of 
the issue, not the root of the personality of those who I am debating with. 
 

And I want to know in the name of what the existence of a species-specific 
nature is worht the title of eugenesist.

I don't understand, but it sounds like you are asking why I would say that 
ideas about inherent gender qualities rooted in immutable evolutionary truths 
are eugenic. If it isn't clear to you then there is nothing that I can tell you 
which will help you see.




You can demote this at your please, keeping telling about spiritualism or that  
there are partenogenetic frogs and there are  planets with no blue skies. There 
are frogs that sing, by the way. I don? kniow if this would help to make a 
point in your argumentation.


Both of us have have put clear our standpoints.

Sure, although I think that your standpoint is from the 19th century and has 
been factually discredited since then.

Craig

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-- 
Alberto.

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