2012/12/15 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>

> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 3:16 AM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Subjective probability depends on the amount of information, or lack of
>>> it, the person involved has; and if Many Worlds is correct then all
>>> probabilities are subjective. If you told me nothing about the machine and
>>> just said walk into the chamber and I did so and found myself in Moscow I
>>> would have no way of knowing that there was another John Clark in
>>> Washington, nor would I have any idea why of all the cities in the world
>>> you chose to transport me to Moscow, I would not even know that a reason
>>> existed.
>>>
>>
>> >Well say you knew there was a 50% chance it would duplicate you and a
>> 50% chance it would transport you.
>>
>
> So a coin would be flipped and if it was heads then Jason Resch would
> simply allow the duplicating machine to do it's work and John Clark would
> remain in Helsinki and John Clark would go to Washington, but if the coin
> was tails then one second after the machine finished its work Jason Resch
> would put a bullet into John Clark's brain in Helsinki. If John Clark knew
> all of this beforehand John Clark would conclude there is a 100% chance
> that John Clark will go to Washington and a 0% chance John Clark will
> remain in Helsinki.
>
>>
>>>  >>> as it brings too close to first person indeterminacy for your
>>>> comfort.
>>>>
>>>
>>> >> Well of course I'm uncomfortable with it, most people are, most
>>> people want to know what the future will hold but we don't; and that's all
>>> "first person indeterminacy" is, a pompous way of saying "I dunno".
>>>
>>
>> >It's more than simple ignorance though.  Even with perfect knowledge you
>> cannot know.
>>
>
> John Clark knows with certainty that if something (like seeing Washington)
> causes John Clark to turn into the Washington Man then John Clark will see
> Washington and if something (like seeing Moscow) causes John Clark to turn
> into the Moscow Man then John Clark will turn into the Moscow Man. Not deep
> but true. So it all boils down to uncertainties in external environmental
> causes, and "first person indeterminacy" is just a pompous way of saying "I
> dunno" about what changes the external world will cause in John Clark.
>
>
>> > Even if you are God you cannot know.
>>
>
> Which should give a hint that the question makes no sense.
>
>
>>  > Tell me whether you disagree with the following and if so why:
>> You open the door to emerge from a duplication chamber, observe the
>> skyline and find it includes the Kremlin.  The experimental setup says your
>> duplicate in the other city found the skyline included the Washington
>> monument.  One of you saw the Kremlin and became the "saw the Kremlin man"
>> and the other saw the Washington monument and became the "saw the
>> Washington monument man".  Through the duplication and observance of
>> something different, each duplicate has acquired the subjective feeling of
>> observing a random unpredictable event.
>>
>
> The subjective feeling would be depended entirely on the individual
> involved , I'm only a expert on John Clark and John Clark would say he saw
> the Kremlin because he's the Moscow man and he's the Moscow man because he
> saw the Kremlin and he did not see the Washington monument because then
> he's be the Washington man. And he's not.
>
>   John K Clark
>


So in your world, it is impossible to assign probabilities for subjective
feeling in a duplication experiment, yet still in your vision, you can in a
MWI context and you see absolutely no contradiction with that, agreed ?

If you agree, then I think we can spare electrons from now on.

Quentin

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