Hi Richard Ruquist  

I believe that quantum waves are nonphysical.  


[Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
1/12/2013  
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
----- Receiving the following content -----  
From: Richard Ruquist  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2013-01-11, 14:07:13 
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Subjective states can be somehow extracted 
frombrainsviaacomputer 


Right. Monads are below the quantum level and you have argued, 
correctly I think, that not even quantum waves are physical. However, 
monads may have a complex structure as you say below  and 
string theory derives what that complex structure looks like including 
the super EM flux that may be what strings are made of. 

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 11:05 AM, Roger Clough  wrote: 
> Hi Richard Ruquist 
> 
> 
> For the umpteenth time, monads are not physical, they cannot be some kind of 
> product of EM waves. 
> 
> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
> 1/11/2013 
> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
> From: Richard Ruquist 
> Receiver: everything-list 
> Time: 2013-01-11, 09:56:26 
> Subject: Re: Re: Subjective states can be somehow extracted from 
> brainsviaacomputer 
> 
> 
> Yes, Roger. 
> 
> They come with 500 topo holes thru which super EM flux winds. 
> Given perhaps 6 quantum states for the flux, 
> there are 6^500 different types of monads. 
> Richard 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:32 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 
>> Hi Craig Weinberg 
>> 
>> Due to their universal perceptions, monads should be extremely complex. 
>> 
>> 
>> [Roger Clough], [rclo...@verizon.net] 
>> 1/11/2013 
>> "Forever is a long time, especially near the end." - Woody Allen 
>> ----- Receiving the following content ----- 
>> From: Craig Weinberg 
>> Receiver: everything-list 
>> Time: 2013-01-11, 08:07:47 
>> Subject: Re: Subjective states can be somehow extracted from brains 
>> viaacomputer 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, January 11, 2013 12:27:54 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
>> On 1/10/2013 9:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, January 10, 2013 7:33:06 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: 
>> On 1/10/2013 4:23 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: 
>> Do you think there can be something that is intelligent but not complex (and 
>> use whatever definitions of "intelligent" and "complex" you want). 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A thermostat is much less complex than a human brain but intelligent under 
>> my definition. 
>> 
>> But much less intelligent. So in effect you think there is a degree of 
>> intelligence in everything, just like you believe there's a degree of 
>> consciousness in everything. And the degree of intelligence correlates with 
>> the degree of complexity ...but you don't think the same about 
>> consciousness? 
>> 
>> Brent 
>> 
>> 
>> I was thinking today that a decent way of defining intelligence is just 'The 
>> ability to know "what's going on"'. 
>> 
>> This makes it clear that intelligence refers to the degree of sophistication 
>> of awareness, not just complexity of function or structure. This is why a 
>> computer which has complex function and structure has no authentic 
>> intelligence and has no idea 'what's going on'. Intelligence however has 
>> everything to do with sensitivity, integration, and mobilization of 
>> awareness as an asset, i.e. to be directed for personal gain or shared 
>> enjoyment, progress, etc. Knowing what's going on implicitly means caring 
>> what goes on, which also supervenes on biological quality investment in 
>> experience. 
>> 
>> 
>> Which is why I think an intelligent machine must be one that acts in its 
>> environment. Simply 'being aware' or 'knowing' are meaningless without the 
>> ability and motives to act on them. 
>> 
>> 
>> Sense and motive are inseparable ontologically, although they can be 
>> interleaved by level. A plant for instance has no need to act on the world 
>> to the same degree as an organism which can move its location, but the cells 
>> that make up the plant act to grow and direct it toward light, extend roots 
>> to water and nutrients, etc. Ontologically however, there is no way to 
>> really have awareness which matters without some participatory opportunity 
>> or potential for that opportunity. 
>> 
>> The problem with a machine (any machine) is that at the level which is it a 
>> machine, it has no way to participate. By definition a machine does whatever 
>> it is designed to do. Anything that we use as a machine has to be made of 
>> something which we can predict and control reliably, so that its 
>> sensory-motive capacities are very limited by definition. Its range of 
>> 'what's going on' has to be very narrow. The internet, for instance, passes 
>> a tremendous number of events through electronic circuits, but the content 
>> of all of it is entirely lost on it. We use the internet to increase our 
>> sense and inform our motives, but its sense and motive does not increase at 
>> all. 
>> 
>> Craig 
>> 
>> 
>> Brent 
>> 
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