On 25 Jan 2013, at 13:14, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi John Clark,
Other than Luther's ancient views on astronomy, and only with regard
to
salvation or damnation, as a modern Lutheran I agree with everything
Luther said,
although I might temper down his invective, which was intended for
the Pope.
In that spirit, everything Luther said was correct and still is.
Outside of science, true stupidity is to rely only on reason.
The amazing thing is that if you accept the classical theory of
knowledge (that is:
know p -> p
know p -> know know p
know (p - > q) -> (know p -> know q)
+ the rule p/know p, + classical logic
then we can prove that some machines (the correct and Löbian one)
already *know* that it is stupid to rely only on reason.
There are reasons why reason is not enough.
It is the beauty and glory of reason: it can see its own limitations.
Machines are born with a form of necessary faith and necessary
intuition.
Bruno
Faith opens the inner eye, which science wants to blind.
So it is said that with faith, you have everything, without faith
you have nothing.
----- Receiving the following content -----
From: Alberto G. Corona
Receiver: everything-list
Time: 2013-01-24, 10:48:16
Subject: Re: Martin Luther on Rationality
I though that, this was not a site for enhancing the self爀steem爋f
self-proclaimed rationalists neither an insult-you-an-infidel
theraphy group.�
2013/1/24 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
I sincerely hope that nobody believes I'm picking on Catholics
because Protestant "thinking" is every bit as brain dead dumb as the
Pope's. Martin Luther knew perfectly well that religious ideas
cannot survive the slightest amount of rational analysis without
completely falling apart, but his solution to that problem was not
to get better ideas but to simply insist that people check their
brain at the door before they start to think about God; here are
some of the noises that particular bipedal hominid made with his
mouth, although I think the noises made from the other end of
Luther's gastrointestinal tract may have contain more wisdom, at
least they might have disclosed some evidence on how the human
digestive system works:�
牋牋�
揜eason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the
aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles
against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates
from God�
"Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of reason."
"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."
"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample
underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees
must be put out of sight and know nothing but the word of God."
"Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being
she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed
whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under
foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom ... Throw dung in her face to
make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism... She
would deserve, the wretch, to be banished to the filthiest place in
the house, to the closets."
"We know, on the authority of Moses, that longer than six thousand
years the world did not exist."
"People gave ear to an upstart astrologer [Copernicus] who strove to
show that the earth revolves, not the heavens or the firmament, the
sun and the moon.� This fool wishes to reverse the entire science
of astronomy; but sacred scripture tells us [Joshua 10:13] that
Joshua commanded the sun to stand still, and not the earth."
After this contemptible performance, after flat out praising the
virtues of stupidity and unapologetically trying to turn everybody
into imbeciles I don't see how anyone could call themselves a
Lutheran or a Protestant or even a Christian without intense
embarrassment.
燡ohn K Clark牋
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